Felling of British slave trader statue heats up simmering debate

[flossie35]

12 hours ago, vogie said:

Not according to the residents that live there, is that an answer to everything, if you don't like it, pull it down. You have never been keen on the ballot box have you chomper.

What residents? And what have ballot boxes got to do with it? It's time the British came to terms with their role in the slave trade. A lot more to it than the abolition bit.

[Curt1591]

1 hour ago, bodga said:

Agreed, mass demonstration is  more effective , but smashing stuff up is way  more fun for most of these idiots with too  much time on their  hands.

Not to mention free appliances ...

Around 1970, I was visiting a friend who was attending USC, just north of Watts. We stopped by a liqour store to pick up some "study supplies". The proprietor commented that is was about time for another riot; his TV was on the blink! 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Curt1591

[vogie]

Just now, flossie35 said:

What residents? And what have ballot boxes got to do with it? It's time the British came to terms with their role in the slave trade. A lot more to it than the abolition bit.

So are you saying that the yobs should run Bristol and not Bristol council, because that what it sounds like to me.

[Silent Number]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Sorry but disagree. Making heroes out of slavers is shameful. 

It seems his actions beyond the slaver identity earned him the recognition by way of the statue. His contributions may have been his realisation of mistakes made.No it doesn’t make it right.Before all you politically correct, green voting ,Vegans  jump on this post.Will mob rule and wilful destruction of property if such property offends you make it go away?

[rupert the bear]

its a somewhat complicated history but in the pics we see students who are not bristolians bossing the agenda.also the mayor is of jamaican background living in the UK,he may be somewhat offended but if the trade had not happened he would be back in west africa and yes good luck with that!theres no mention of the fact the african slave trade has a long history.arabs were the first and last on that ,parts of nigeria were an arab caliphate until britain invaded to expel them and the slave trade.they had other reasons too for sure but they did that.dublin was the biggest slave mkt in europe,no black slaves only white and run by vikings,rome egypt greece and so on ,enlightened empires the persian too.in modern times the damascus slave mkt the largest in the world run in ottoman times,it contained many black and white slaves,the janissaries were chldren taken young from subject races[many greeks] as a tax and the girls well in modern parlance sex slaves or bought for the harems of rich arabs,mostly from southern russia where the women are still known for their beauty ,that ended when britain and france defeated and collapsed that empire in ww1.its part of the human condition,it carries on to some extent today in africa and asia,lets not forget africans held slaves .the ashanti were a slave holding empire and they firstly sold slaves to the portugese,it was tribal chiefs that sold their people onto arab slavers until very recent times.dr livingstone died trying to stop that trade.its our history,britain was the power that collapsed the atlantic slave trade 1809.etc.but we must understand history and deal with it,what is not acceptable in liberal west was less than a 100 yrs ago de rigeur in many parts of the world.slavery was part of trade world wide at that time,sarawak , to the slavers of the muslim southern philippines.close indeed it was rajah brooke ended that.everyone was not middle class undereducated and rich in those days!!as is the case today,we dont see these students rallying outside the saudi embassy where slavery was on the statute book till 1960!!or the feminists outside the indian and pakistani embassies,we see self importance virtue signalling and massive massive hypocrisy in the west and the brits as opinionated judgemental know it alls do it better than anyone.

[GinBoy2]

Part of the issue is we collectively haven't had a grown up discussion about the significance of monuments like this.

 

A statue of some controversial figure, be he (and they are always men) a renowned slaver or or Confederate General displayed in a public place is at the end of the day a glorification of that individual.

 

Now an encouraging trend in the US South has been to move those statues and memorials into a museum setting where their historical significance can be better explained rather than glorified.

 

Long way to go, but change takes time

Edited June 9, 2020 by GinBoy2

[Orton Rd]

SO what about any statues of those 12 US presidents that were slave owners?

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Part of the issue is we collectively haven't had a grown up discussion about the significance of monuments like this.

 

A statue of some controversial figure, be he (and they are always men) be he a renowned slaver or or Confederate General displayed in a public place is at the end of the day a glorification of that individual.

 

Now an encouraging trend in the US South has been to move those statues and memorials into a museum setting where they historical significance can be better explained rather than glorified.

 

Long way to go, but change takes time

I don't think that anyone is glorifying the statue for one minute, the objections is how it was removed by a bunch of rabid yobs. Do you think it would have been better to ask the residents of Bristol if they wanted the statue to remain or to be removed, that seems the most democratic way of getting a decision on it, after all it is the citizens of Bristol that has to live with it.

That seems to be the lefts way of dealing with things 'I don't like it so it has to go' 

Personally I don't like my neighbors banana tree, but it would be wrong of me to pull it down as the rest of the estate think its wonderfull.

[izod10]

13 hours ago, Susco said:

Look at the videos from all over the world. The same is going on in every country.

 

This is not about George Floyd any more it is something that was floating in the air for a few years already, and they have seen a chance now and grabbed it.

 

Expect this to escalate much further

Yes,is true.  It is the young white kids generally,kids without a clue, just fa.rts in the wind ,not an ounce of creditability gives them a feeling of a bit of power bunching together, denouncing the air they breathe at times

  They want clubbing,give their stupid heads a wake up call

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I don't think that anyone is glorifying the statue for one minute, the objections is how it was removed by a bunch of rabid yobs. Do you think it would have been better to ask the residents of Bristol if they wanted the statue to remain or to be removed, that seems the most democratic way of getting a decision on it, after all it is the citizens of Bristol that has to live with it.

That seems to be the lefts way of dealing with things 'I don't like it so it has to go' 

Personally I don't like my neighbors banana tree, but it would be wrong of me to pull it down as the rest of the estate think its wonderfull.

I am in no way defending the way in which it was removed.

Thats just mob violence and destruction. What I was trying to suggest that we should all, both in the US, UK, France etc have been having these conversations a long time ago

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Crackpot conspiracy nonsense, except it’s not crackpot - it’s straight out of the extreme rightwing playbook.

 

The ‘Elders of Zion’ re-written for the 21st Century.

 

 

In which case why the unnecessary stomp?

[jingjai9]

Vandalism of public property is wrong -  period, but sometimes you have to fight the power. I see in the US they are starting to address police defunding as a method of reform. Would the current discussions be taking place now, if the massive protests for two weeks had not taken place? 

 

If the democracies were funcional perhaps there would be debates by representatives of the people in respective countries with investigations and an eclectic group of people providing input at hearings.

 

Between the Covid outbreak and the killing of George Floyd, cracks in the system have been exposed and people can more clearly see the structure of the state and its disfunctionality.

 

In the US it seems we have seen the two policial parties smother our democracy by putting a choke hold on its functionality. The political parties are the made up of candidates approved by the donor class (made possible by the Citizen's United decision of the US Supreme Court). Moreover, the large media outlets are patrons of the two major parties to the point that Fox News staff appear to serve as speical advisors to the president while MSNBC and CNN serve the democrats. 

 

Investigative journalism has been brought to its knees by the large media companies "buying off their "reporters' with huge seven figure salaries and in turn the "reporters" subtly set the boundaries for what is appropriate what is considered extreme.

 

Some social critics attribute the changes in western democracies to a coup d'tat in slow motion where corporate powers have slowly taken contol of the levers of power in the last 40 years working within the system.

[JonnyF]

I'm from Bristol. Colston's name is everywhere, the Colston Hall, Colston's school etc.

 

He practically built large portions of the city. You can't whitewash history, you have to learn from it. The police were pathetic just standing by and allowing this to happen. Can you imagine if it was a Pro Brexit march or Tommy Robinson protesting about the grooming gangs? It would have been shut down immediately.

 

You can bet most of the people ignoring social distancing rules on the march were crying about Cummings taking his kid to his parent's house last week. The likes of Barry Gardiner attending BLM marches and "taking a knee" is really incredible but I guess such a fantastic opportunity for virtue signalling takes precedence over the public safety. The hypocrisy of these people is truly astounding.  

[Deli]

A criminal act of violence, if not uproar or even terrorism. SHould be punished at maximum level.

Clueless idiots are doing this. Not far away from the RAF or IRA.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Dr. Martin Luther King did more for advancing equality than all the SJWs combined. All these riots and violent protests do is bring about more anger and resentment.

 

 

Muhammad Ali too, wonderful man, as were Nelson Mandela and Ghandi.

Edited June 9, 2020 by evadgib

[evadgib]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I'm from Bristol. Colston's name is everywhere, the Colston Hall, Colston's school etc.

 

He practically built large portions of the city. You can't whitewash history, you have to learn from it. The police were pathetic just standing by and allowing this to happen. Can you imagine if it was a Pro Brexit march or Tommy Robinson protesting about the grooming gangs? It would have been shut down immediately.

 

You can bet most of the people ignoring social distancing rules on the march were crying about Cummings taking his kid to his parent's house last week. The likes of Barry Gardiner attending BLM marches and "taking a knee" is really incredible but I guess such a fantastic opportunity for virtue signalling takes precedence over the public safety. The hypocrisy of these people is truly astounding.  

Plod were just as bad when St Greta organised a synchronised love-in for the tree huggers back in March.

[bert bloggs]

when i read the report ,what stood out is ,its history ,move on ,or should we demolish the Roman Coloseum ,after all slaves were killed there to cheered on by baying mobs.

[norfolkandchance]

God bless America.

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

when i read the report ,what stood out is ,its history ,move on ,or should we demolish the Roman Coloseum ,after all slaves were killed there to cheered on by baying mobs.

It's the cancel culture of the censorious left. Instead of debating and discussing they just want to shut down anything that they disagree with. It's the same as universities blacklisting anyone who isn't sufficiently Woke from speaking at their debates. 

 

The correct way to handle this would be to educate the public on the good and the bad things that Edward Colston did and then allow a public vote on whether the statue should remain. But that's far too sensible for the 'intellectual' leftists, they'd rather a baying mob ripped it down, stomped on it and threw it in the river. 

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

If he turns up at the London protest with some hooligans, my money is on the street wise kids.

Until you realise the calibre, background and numbers likely to be in attendance. To have some idea see who turned out for Dennis Hutchings & Alexander Blackman; Two ex servicemen thrown under a bus by the state.

 

Anyone touching Winnie will pooh! ????

Edited June 9, 2020 by evadgib

[phantomfiddler]

I propose a large statue of Nelson Mandela at every street intersection across the country, plus the destruction of any other statues already standing. Only then will the thieving maniacs be happy !

[bodga]

1 hour ago, flossie35 said:

What residents? And what have ballot boxes got to do with it? It's time the British came to terms with their role in the slave trade. A lot more to it than the abolition bit.

And  time  the  Africans  also came  to  terms  with  their  involvement in  Africa

[Andrew65]

1 hour ago, Silent Number said:

It seems his actions beyond the slaver identity earned him the recognition by way of the statue. His contributions may have been his realisation of mistakes made.No it doesn’t make it right.Before all you politically correct, green voting ,Vegans  jump on this post.Will mob rule and wilful destruction of property if such property offends you make it go away?

We are talking about a time in history where they were burning people for witchcraft! It was also against the law not to go to church on a Sunday, just to put it in context.

People "apologising" for such things today doesn't change what happened. (Things that they had nothing whatsoever to do with anyway).

And another thing, an inconvenient-truth, many slaves were sold into slavery by their fellow black leaders, slavery was part of their own culture.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Andrew65

[jak2002003]

I would have left the statue up, but had a televised event where everyone was included and put up a huge permanent sign next to it explaining the history of the man.....including highlighting his role in the salve trade. 

[bodga]

10 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

And another thing, an inconvenient-truth, many slaves were sold into slavery by their fellow black leaders, slavery was part of their own culture.

At a later  stage they even deliberately went  out to find other tribes to enslave to the whitemen.

You want to lay blame then everyone was involved.

[bodga]

11 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

And another thing, an inconvenient-truth, many slaves were sold into slavery by their fellow black leaders, slavery was part of their own culture.

Not  unlike "serfdom" in the Uk centuries  back and even Thailand more recently.

[JonnyF]

11 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

And another thing, an inconvenient-truth, many slaves were sold into slavery by their fellow black leaders, slavery was part of their own culture.

Ssshhhhh.

 

The self loathing, guilt ridden liberals will cancel you if you refuse to sweep this under the carpet ????.

[Andrew65]

Just now, bodga said:

At a later  stage they even deliberately went  out to find other tribes to enslave to the whitemen.

You want to lay blame then everyone was involved.

I read about this stuff in a book "Travels in the Interior of Africa" on the experiences of Scottish explorer Mungo Park who had travelled to West Africa in 1698 to find the source of the Niger River. He found a flourishing slave trade, and was the first white man that the local population had ever seen.

[BobBKK]

14 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He traded in slaves, he does not merit a statue.

 

And now he hasn’t got one.

He didn't get a statue for trading slaves but donating all his money. We can't change the past only the future. What about Franklin? and many more besides. Nelson had people kidnapped to work on his ships - let's tear down the column?

[Silent Number]

42 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

We are talking about a time in history where they were burning people for witchcraft! It was also against the law not to go to church on a Sunday, just to put it in context.

People "apologising" for such things today doesn't change what happened. (Things that they had nothing whatsoever to do with anyway).

And another thing, an inconvenient-truth, many slaves were sold into slavery by their fellow black leaders, slavery was part of their own culture.

No argument here that’s what my post depicts also.