Britain nears abandoning Brexit trade deal hope - The Telegraph

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Perhaps, reminds me of 1945......????

Again that WWII comparison from you. Must be frustrating to realise Germany has way surpassed the UK since.

[transam]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Again that WWII comparison from you. Must be frustrating to realise Germany has way surpassed the UK since.

Not at all, I don't care what other countries are doing, get that into your head chap.

Japan has done very well too, after causing the deaths of many for their ambitions eh..????

 

[transam]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Yes they learned something ...now they "fine tuned" it ...????

Yes, get what they want without slaughtering....

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, RayC said:

And the two of us have been through through this illusion of greater sovereignty previously, which leaves us with immigration.

 

I also wonder about the casual disregard for the likely economic effects. I - and quite probably you - am in the fortunate position where - barring a complete collapse of Europe's/ the UK economies I'll be quite comfortable. Others will be less fortunate but hey ho, eh...?

 

Indeed there was (is?) "angst and disharmony", but there is agreement on the EU budget. 

 

Perhaps there will be some bare bones agreement governing non-contentious issues, but I doubt very much that it will be anything like a comprehensive FTA. As for German industry, seems like they are resigned to accepting this 

https://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/bdi-on-the-conclusion-of-the-brexit-round-of-talks-a-collapse-in-the-negotiations-on-a-partnership-agreement-is-now-all-but-inevitable--819049646.html

 

https://english.bdi.eu/article/news/brexit-withdrawal-is-the-right-step-on-the-wrong-path/

And the two of us obviously disagree on the issue of what true sovereignty actually is.

 

You seem to assume that leavers have a "casual disregard" for the possible economic effects. Not true but carry on with your blame game. 

 

There is an agreement on the EU budget only because it was short of the target total. 

 

I read your links. Herr Lang seems to echo the EU rhetoric quite closely but ignores several conditions being set by the EU that are not applied to Canada or other third countries with FTAs. Maybe he's after a commission job?

 

 

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, RayC said:

An audio file outlining the UK's Brexit negotiating position has fallen into my hands. Thought that I would share it with you.

https://youtu.be/i2KLyBapfTc

 

All good - except this seems more like Micky McBarnier talking.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Yes, get what they want without slaughtering....

Think they slaughtered quite a bit in the middle east and their former colonies.

Edited August 23, 2020 by FritsSikkink

[Opl]

3 hours ago, transam said:

We haven't left 100% yet, wait till after the new year to post your EU worried stuff....????

"Why Billionaire Brexiteers Dyson And Ratcliffe Can’t Commit To Building Cars In Britain; With both billionaires seeing Brexit as an opportunity, they forged grand, albeit different, plans following the U.K. vote to leave the E.U. in June 2016. Both plans involved cars and a restoration of the U.K. as a motor manufacturing powerhouse. Both were hugely ambitious and driven (literally) with real entrepreneurial zeal. However, by 2020 both plans have, in different ways, been grounded on the rocks of reality as Britain and Britain’s best businessmen find going it alone harder than they first thought."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddawkins/2020/07/16/why-billionaire-brexiteers-dyson-and-ratcliffe-cant-commit-to-building-cars-in-britain/#788de1fd276c

 

And NO, Brexit hasn't begun yet

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Opl

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, Opl said:

And NO, Brexit hasn't begun yet

neithers the forthcoming worldwide recession,or should it be depression.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

"Why Billionaire Brexiteers Dyson And Ratcliffe Can’t Commit To Building Cars In Britain; With both billionaires seeing Brexit as an opportunity, they forged grand, albeit different, plans following the U.K. vote to leave the E.U. in June 2016. Both plans involved cars and a restoration of the U.K. as a motor manufacturing powerhouse. Both were hugely ambitious and driven (literally) with real entrepreneurial zeal. However, by 2020 both plans have, in different ways, been grounded on the rocks of reality as Britain and Britain’s best businessmen find going it alone harder than they first thought."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddawkins/2020/07/16/why-billionaire-brexiteers-dyson-and-ratcliffe-cant-commit-to-building-cars-in-britain/#788de1fd276c

 

And NO, Brexit hasn't begun yet

 

Does matey claim to have known that this covid lark was on it's way four years ago...?

[transam]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

"Why Billionaire Brexiteers Dyson And Ratcliffe Can’t Commit To Building Cars In Britain; With both billionaires seeing Brexit as an opportunity, they forged grand, albeit different, plans following the U.K. vote to leave the E.U. in June 2016. Both plans involved cars and a restoration of the U.K. as a motor manufacturing powerhouse. Both were hugely ambitious and driven (literally) with real entrepreneurial zeal. However, by 2020 both plans have, in different ways, been grounded on the rocks of reality as Britain and Britain’s best businessmen find going it alone harder than they first thought."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddawkins/2020/07/16/why-billionaire-brexiteers-dyson-and-ratcliffe-cant-commit-to-building-cars-in-britain/#788de1fd276c

 

And NO, Brexit hasn't begun yet

 

Was the same in 1939, but we eventually got there.....After 1945 the Japanese and Germany eventually sorted themselves out too, so not all doom and gloom as our "Guardian" and "Independent" and a few folk here spout....????

[Airbagwill]

6 hours ago, Henryford said:

Good we will buy from other countries rather than the EUSSR

Seriously? When will we do that? Who will do it and how will we monitor standards?

You realise they too...who ever they are, will also be subject to the same WTO tarriffs.

 

I guess we could do a deal with Putin ....or Mars?

Edited August 23, 2020 by Airbagwill

[RayC]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

And the two of us obviously disagree on the issue of what true sovereignty actually is.

I'd phrase it differently by questioning what it means in practice but, yes probably the closest to agreement that we're likely to get.

 

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

You seem to assume that leavers have a "casual disregard" for the possible economic effects. Not true but carry on with your blame game

By your own admission, both sides will suffer economically as a result of Brexit. If remain had won, there wouldn't be a Brexit. Who else is responsible, other than leavers then?

 

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

There is an agreement on the EU budget only because it was short of the target total. 

And your point is what? That this is a failure? The Commission put forward a proposed budget; the member states analysed and discussed it, and then came back with their conclusions. Seems like a perfectly sensible process to me.

 

By your line of argument, you will presumably judge the UK government's Brexit negotiations a failure unless they come back with full unconditional access to the single market?

 

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

I read your links. Herr Lang seems to echo the EU rhetoric quite closely but ignores several conditions being set by the EU that are not applied to Canada or other third countries with FTAs. Maybe he's after a commission job?

 

And maybe Herr Lang is happy being Head of the leading trade body in Europe's biggest economy?

 

Don't you remember that a 'Canada' deal was tabled by the EU, and rejected by the UK a couple of years ago? Who's fault is it that the offer wasn't taken up? There is no obligation on the EU to make any offer open-ended.

 

The truth of the matter is that the chaotic nature of the whole Brexit process is down to the UK government or, more specifically, the Tory party. Successive leaders have continuously put their own personal and party ambitions before those of the country and this is the result.

 

I very much doubt that a Corbyn government would have made a stellar success of things, but it's difficult to envisage how such a government could have done much worse.

 

Just our luck to have such woeful politicians at a time when we need the best.

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, transam said:

Not at all, I don't care what other countries are doing, get that into your head chap.

Japan has done very well too, after causing the deaths of many for their ambitions eh..????

 

You don't care, that's why you keep mentioning WWII in connection with brexit. Unbelievable.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You don't care, that's why you keep mentioning WWII in connection with brexit. Unbelievable.

Can you expand on that, so I can try and get your point. ????

Off up the pub now, so take your time.............????

[nauseus]

58 minutes ago, RayC said:

I'd phrase it differently by questioning what it means in practice but, yes probably the closest to agreement that we're likely to get.

 

By your own admission, both sides will suffer economically as a result of Brexit. If remain had won, there wouldn't be a Brexit. Who else is responsible, other than leavers then?

 

And your point is what? That this is a failure? The Commission put forward a proposed budget; the member states analysed and discussed it, and then came back with their conclusions. Seems like a perfectly sensible process to me.

 

By your line of argument, you will presumably judge the UK government's Brexit negotiations a failure unless they come back with full unconditional access to the single market?

 

And maybe Herr Lang is happy being Head of the leading trade body in Europe's biggest economy?

 

Don't you remember that a 'Canada' deal was tabled by the EU, and rejected by the UK a couple of years ago? Who's fault is it that the offer wasn't taken up? There is no obligation on the EU to make any offer open-ended.

 

The truth of the matter is that the chaotic nature of the whole Brexit process is down to the UK government or, more specifically, the Tory party. Successive leaders have continuously put their own personal and party ambitions before those of the country and this is the result.

 

I very much doubt that a Corbyn government would have made a stellar success of things, but it's difficult to envisage how such a government could have done much worse.

 

Just our luck to have such woeful politicians at a time when we need the best.

IF remain had won there wouldn't be a Brexit and IF we'd never joined there wouldn't be a Brexit either. I still blame Heath & Co.

 

My point is that this 'agreement' was actually a demonstration of disagreement between member states which lasted over several days and that the EU failed to achieve its aim.

 

I'm sure that Herr Lang is very happy with his job.

 

I remember that a 'Canada' deal was tabled by the EU but the details were never revealed. May blew it off anyway because, as a not-so closet remainer, she wanted to tie us even closer to the EU post Brexit. May's fault.

 

The truth of the matter is that the chaotic nature of the whole Brexit process exposes the very self-serving structure and makeup of the EU, as it has mutated to be today. It is a snarled rats maze, showing far more political ambition than economic sense; everyone can see that now, if they care to open their eyes, of course.

 

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Can you expand on that, so I can try and get your point. ????

Off up the pub now, so take your time.............????

Unbelievable: statement that can not be believed.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

You don't care, that's why you keep mentioning WWII in connection with brexit. Unbelievable.

You started it!

[3NUMBAS]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I

 

 

The truth of the matter is that the chaotic nature of the whole Brexit process exposes the very self-serving structure and makeup of the EU, as it has mutated to be today. It is a snarled rats maze, showing far more political ambition than economic sense; everyone can see that now, if they care to open their eyes, of course.

 

 

kinnock and family became multi millionairs in this snarling rats maze of over fat salaries and pensions and theres 1000s of these rats in brussels

[david555]

21 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

kinnock and family became multi millionairs in this snarling rats maze of over fat salaries and pensions and theres 1000s of these rats in brussels

From where Farage took also  his share too.....about fat salaries and pension ...

Embarassing ?isn't it...????

.

 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

kinnock and family became multi millionairs in this snarling rats maze of over fat salaries and pensions and theres 1000s of these rats in brussels

Farage seemed to do quite well out of it too didn't he. He even applied for a German passport the day after the referendum and has since refused to answer as to whether his application was successful. 

[kingdong]

44 minutes ago, david555 said:

From where Farage took also  his share too.....about fat salaries and pension ...

Embarassing ?isn't it...????

.

 

 

and  why not?he deserved it for all the grief he gave them,he took britain out of it though.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

You started it!

No.

[david555]

22 minutes ago, kingdong said:

and  why not?he deserved it for all the grief he gave them,he took britain out of it though.

So then also the E.U. strongholders deserve their part to resist destruction by Brexiteers......they should even a pay rise considering this ......compared with Nigel "Blackadder" Farage ...????

????

[RayC]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

IF remain had won there wouldn't be a Brexit and IF we'd never joined there wouldn't be a Brexit either. I still blame Heath & Co.

I really struggle to understand your position. It's clear that you don't want membership of the EU, but what do you want? On what terms should the UK deal with Europe and the rest of the world? (Can you avoid simply stating as a sovereign nation please).

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

My point is that this 'agreement' was actually a demonstration of disagreement between member states which lasted over several days and that the EU failed to achieve its aim.

Show me any club of 27 members who unanimously agree on every (most?) issue(s)? The EU did achieve its aim, which was to agree a budget.

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

I remember that a 'Canada' deal was tabled by the EU but the details were never revealed. May blew it off anyway because, as a not-so closet remainer, she wanted to tie us even closer to the EU post Brexit. May's fault.

As above, I struggle to understand what you are asking for. It appears that you want the EU to table the same deal that has been agreed with Canada in order for the UK to be able to then reject it.

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

The truth of the matter is that the chaotic nature of the whole Brexit process exposes the very self-serving structure and makeup of the EU, as it has mutated to be today. It is a snarled rats maze, showing far more political ambition than economic sense; everyone can see that now, if they care to open their eyes, of course.

 

Having admitted that both sides will suffer economically as a result of Brexit, I'd love to know what is your definition of the phrase "economic sense"?

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

So then also the E.U. strongholders deserve their part to resist destruction by Brexiteers......they should even a pay rise considering this ......compared with Nigel "Blackadder" Farage ...????

????

Aha but you forget, Baldrick. Farage was actually elected into the EU Parliament.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

I really struggle to understand your position. It's clear that you don't want membership of the EU, but what do you want? On what terms should the UK deal with Europe and the rest of the world? (Can you avoid simply stating as a sovereign nation please).

 

Show me any club of 27 members who unanimously agree on every (most?) issue(s)? The EU did achieve its aim, which was to agree a budget.

 

As above, I struggle to understand what you are asking for. It appears that you want the EU to table the same deal that has been agreed with Canada in order for the UK to be able to then reject it.

 

 

Having admitted that both sides will suffer economically as a result of Brexit, I'd love to know what is your definition of the phrase "economic sense"?

It's wrong to confuse the EU with the rest of the world. 

 

The EU missed its money target - the eventually agreed total was less.

 

Canada +/- is fine but this deal must be exactly the same as for Canada.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by nauseus

[kingdong]

5 hours ago, david555 said:

So then also the E.U. strongholders deserve their part to resist destruction by Brexiteers......they should even a pay rise considering this ......compared with Nigel "Blackadder" Farage ...????

????

 

5 hours ago, david555 said:

So then also the E.U. strongholders deserve their part to resist destruction by Brexiteers......they should even a pay rise considering this ......compared with Nigel "Blackadder" Farage ...????

????

what are you on about?

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

It's wrong to confuse the EU with the rest of the world. 

 

The EU missed its money target - the eventually agreed total was less.

 

Canada +/- is fine but this deal must be exactly the same as for Canada.

 

 

A Canada deal, as already rejected by the UK?

[evadgib]

24 minutes ago, stevenl said:

A Canada deal, as already rejected by the UK?

No, a proper one with no parasitic tentacles attached.

[transam]

13 hours ago, stevenl said:

Unbelievable: statement that can not be believed.

Oh, so you can't make the post clearer, OK, too much to ask is it, or you don't understand it either........????.......................????