Britain nears abandoning Brexit trade deal hope - The Telegraph

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Well , its not the actual job center , they're located in buildings close by and you are required to apply for at least ten jobs per week and attend any interviews for those jobs .

   You are seeking a job and receive job seekers allowance , if you refuse any jobs, they stop your JSA .

They also offer voluntary work , and if you refuse that work, they can also stop your JSA , its your choice as to what you do 

It is my understanding that if you are sanctioned and your JSA is stopped then you are placed on Universal credit. While this is not normally as much money as JSA it is enough (coupled with other benefits) to stop you from being destitute. 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

So they either work or are made destitute?

 

Here's the definition of forced labour.

 

Unfree labour (or forced labour) is any work relation, especially in modern or early modern history, in which people are employed against their will with the threat of destitution, detention, violence (including death), compulsion,[1] or other forms of extreme hardship to themselves or members of their families.

 

You will note the part about destitution. 

It would appear not only do you Brexiteers casually rewrite history and facts but are now capable of rewriting the definition of words.

Employed against their will? They can take any job they want. Wherever they want. Or they can not work and accept that they dont have much money.

 

If you mean they are perfectly capable of working but cant be bothered then I think that's stretching "employed against their will" to mean something else. 

 

Strange your choose to live in Thailand if you're so keen on the welfare state or do you enjoy taking advantage of low prices due to 300 baht a day minimum wage ?

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Employed against their will? They can take any job they want. Wherever they want. Or they can not work and accept that they dont have much money.

 

If you mean they are perfectly capable of working but cant be bothered then I think that's stretching "employed against their will" to mean something else. 

 

Strange your choose to live in Thailand if you're so keen on the welfare state or do you enjoy taking advantage of low prices due to 300 baht a day minimum wage ?

So you have now moved the goalposts in your argument.

Now its not a case of having no money its now a case of not having much money.

If people are happy to accept that situation then its up to them. They should not be forced to work as you and CorpusChristi were suggesting. Because that is forced labour. A term which you refuse to come to terms with for some reason.

My reasons for living in Thailand are my own. I'm not in charge of the place so your last point is asinine. 

 

[kingdong]

8 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Little importance?

What are we going to eat then? Will British nationalism keep us sustained even though our belly's be empty?

Who is going to dig the potatoes up? 

perhaps we could have aprenticehips  for unemployed brits in fruit and veg picking after all it was you in an earlier post who stated why should employers take on apprentices when they can get a migrant worker cheaper,you also commented on how british workers would not pick fruit because of the low wages,so one can assume these migrants will be below the tax threshold,sending all their money home and contributing jack to the british economy,i suppose they,ll be claiming tax and housing credits too,theres going to be big changes coming soon when the financial impact of the corona virus hits.

[simple1]

4 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Well , its not the actual job center , they're located in buildings close by and you are required to apply for at least ten jobs per week and attend any interviews for those jobs .

   You are seeking a job and receive job seekers allowance , if you refuse any jobs, they stop your JSA .

They also offer voluntary work , and if you refuse that work, they can also stop your JSA , its your choice as to what you do 

 

 

 

They have a similar system here in Australia, I assume similarity to the UK. Some years back I was unemployed and in financial difficulty. I recall employers were sick and tired of receiving jobseeker applications due to the welfare rules of having to apply for work no matter one's suitability. The scheme is a rort as the agency would get commission from the government, no matter if they had done nothing to assist with the job placement, as in my case. The low paid jobs pushed some people into the working poor category which was extremely difficult to get out of as the lower the wage the worse employment flexibility to find better work. Thankfully I had skills that enabled me to find a well-paid job after a few weeks, but it entailed a four hour driving commute every day to a city.

Edited August 26, 2020 by simple1

[CorpusChristie]

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

They have a similar system here in Australia, I assume similarity to the UK. Some years back I was unemployed and in financial difficulty. I recall employers were sick and tired of receiving jobseeker applications due to the welfare rules of having to apply for work no matter one's suitability. The scheme is a rort as the agency would get commission from the government, no matter if they had done nothing to assist with the job placement, as in my case. The low paid jobs pushed people into wage earner poverty which was extremely difficult to get out of as the lower the wage the worse employment flexibility to find better work. Thankfully I had skills that enabled me to find a well-paid job after a few weeks, but it entailed a four hour driving commute every day to a city.

I was forced to attend a job interview for I job that I didnt want .

The interviewing manager said to me ; "What are you good at"

I replied "Nothing"

He asked "What can you do "

I replied " I cannot do anything, I'm completely useless"

I didnt get the job 

Edited August 26, 2020 by CorpusChristie

[Rookiescot]

43 minutes ago, kingdong said:

perhaps we could have aprenticehips  for unemployed brits in fruit and veg picking after all it was you in an earlier post who stated why should employers take on apprentices when they can get a migrant worker cheaper,you also commented on how british workers would not pick fruit because of the low wages,so one can assume these migrants will be below the tax threshold,sending all their money home and contributing jack to the british economy,i suppose they,ll be claiming tax and housing credits too,theres going to be big changes coming soon when the financial impact of the corona virus hits.

Where to start with this?

OK lets take for example a Polish electrician. He gets a job working for a UK company. He is already trained and experienced. He starts work and is paying income tax and national insurance. He also has to live somewhere. So he will either be renting accommodation or will have to get a mortgage. He also has to eat.

Given he is a migrant he is not entitled to claim any benefits. Cost to UK taxpayer is zero.

Then lets look at those eastern Europeans who come for seasonal work picking fruit and veg. They work and live on the farm in poor accommodation. They will pay minimal tax if anything because they are so poorly paid. They also have to eat. Again because they are migrants they are not entitled to any benefits. When the job is finished they go home. Cost to UK taxpayer is zero.

 

The financial impact of corona is already with us. The financial impact of Brexit starts in January. Do not conflate the two. One is a random event which has afflicted every country on the planet.

The other is self inflicted.

[kingdong]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Where to start with this?

OK lets take for example a Polish electrician. He gets a job working for a UK company. He is already trained and experienced. He starts work and is paying income tax and national insurance. He also has to live somewhere. So he will either be renting accommodation or will have to get a mortgage. He also has to eat.

Given he is a migrant he is not entitled to claim any benefits. Cost to UK taxpayer is zero.

Then lets look at those eastern Europeans who come for seasonal work picking fruit and veg. They work and live on the farm in poor accommodation. They will pay minimal tax if anything because they are so poorly paid. They also have to eat. Again because they are migrants they are not entitled to any benefits. When the job is finished they go home. Cost to UK taxpayer is zero.

 

The financial impact of corona is already with us. The financial impact of Brexit starts in January. Do not conflate the two. One is a random event which has afflicted every country on the planet.

The other is self inflicted.

have you never heard of tax and housing credits?obviously not,that means an eu citizen can come to the uk,work 16 hours a week for uber who incidentally don,t pay a brass razzoo in tax in the uk,and the uber driver recieves all the benefits,sorry "credits " going including child allowance,while also not contributing any tax,so we have a scenario where the british people are subsidising a large foreign company.the financial impact of corona hasn,t started....yet,a lot of workers are still on " furlough" till the end of october when the government will stop paying the 80% of wages currently being paid to laid off workers,come October there will be mass redundancies,also the buy to let industry is going down the gurgler,its now taking over a year to legally evict a tenant who hasn,t paid a penny rent since march,commercial properties are also going to bomb with keys to pubs,restaurants,and other venues catering to the hospitality trade being returned,all this and you seem to worry about is the financial cost of picking carrots,brexit?why are you concerned if you,re resident of the los?

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, kingdong said:

have you never heard of tax and housing credits?obviously not,that means an eu citizen can come to the uk,work 16 hours a week for uber who incidentally don,t pay a brass razzoo in tax in the uk,and the uber driver recieves all the benefits,sorry "credits " going including child allowance,while also not contributing any tax,so we have a scenario where the british people are subsidising a large foreign company.the financial impact of corona hasn,t started....yet,a lot of workers are still on " furlough" till the end of october when the government will stop paying the 80% of wages currently being paid to laid off workers,come October there will be mass redundancies,also the buy to let industry is going down the gurgler,its now taking over a year to legally evict a tenant who hasn,t paid a penny rent since march,commercial properties are also going to bomb with keys to pubs,restaurants,and other venues catering to the hospitality trade being returned,all this and you seem to worry about is the financial cost of picking carrots,brexit?why are you concerned if you,re resident of the los?

Migrants to the UK cannot claim any benefits until they have been here for three months.

You think it takes three months to pick a field of potatoes? 

Tax evasion? You guys have enabled it because of Brexit. The EU was introducing legislation to curb tax evasion and avoidance by individuals and companies. Why do you think rich people were so keen to support Brexit? 

So if Uber are able to avoid tax and fill their cars with migrant workers its the fault of the UK government. They should close the loopholes just like the EU are trying to do. Why is the Conservative government not doing that? Oh yeah its because they and their rich backers personally benefit from the lack of control.

Its ironic isnt it? The EU was trying to curb the very thing you are ranting about and you voted to prevent it.

Buy to let? No sympathy from me. Exploiting low mortgage rates and over inflated rents. They had a good run for a long time doing that. Do you expect the country to bail them out?

 

Yes the catering industry is taking a hammering. But thats capitalism dear boy. Were they worried and concerned as the UK's manufacturing base was systematically shut down? Its survival of the fittest mate. Those who fall by the wayside are simply casualties of the neo liberalism started by Thatcher. 

 

So you are saying the corona crisis is still to come and then we have Brexit on top of that?

Wow. If only there had been some way to avoid at least one of those things.

 

I still pay tax in the UK (unlike a lot of your Brexit loving mates) so I will comment on UK matters as and when I please. Regardless of where I currently reside.

[Airbagwill]

Here's  a little bit of "project fear".... but hang on! It's the Daily Express!!

 

[Airbagwill]

12 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

It is my understanding that if you are sanctioned and your JSA is stopped then you are placed on Universal credit. While this is not normally as much money as JSA it is enough (coupled with other benefits) to stop you from being destitute. 

Clearly it isn't, is it?

[kingdong]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Migrants to the UK cannot claim any benefits until they have been here for three months.

You think it takes three months to pick a field of potatoes? 

Tax evasion? You guys have enabled it because of Brexit. The EU was introducing legislation to curb tax evasion and avoidance by individuals and companies. Why do you think rich people were so keen to support Brexit? 

So if Uber are able to avoid tax and fill their cars with migrant workers its the fault of the UK government. They should close the loopholes just like the EU are trying to do. Why is the Conservative government not doing that? Oh yeah its because they and their rich backers personally benefit from the lack of control.

Its ironic isnt it? The EU was trying to curb the very thing you are ranting about and you voted to prevent it.

Buy to let? No sympathy from me. Exploiting low mortgage rates and over inflated rents. They had a good run for a long time doing that. Do you expect the country to bail them out?

 

Yes the catering industry is taking a hammering. But thats capitalism dear boy. Were they worried and concerned as the UK's manufacturing base was systematically shut down? Its survival of the fittest mate. Those who fall by the wayside are simply casualties of the neo liberalism started by Thatcher. 

 

So you are saying the corona crisis is still to come and then we have Brexit on top of that?

Wow. If only there had been some way to avoid at least one of those things.

 

I still pay tax in the UK (unlike a lot of your Brexit loving mates) so I will comment on UK matters as and when I please. Regardless of where I currently reside.

you were the one ranting about the lack of aprenticeships,and stating how firms who employ non british workers should be penalised (impossible under eu rules ) you owe a big thank you to all the brexiteers,so if the country you are a guest in decides to tell you to sling your hook you will still have a countryto return to.

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, kingdong said:

you were the one ranting about the lack of aprenticeships,and stating how firms who employ non british workers should be penalised (impossible under eu rules ) you owe a big thank you to all the brexiteers,so if the country you are a guest in decides to tell you to sling your hook you will still have a countryto return to.

You Brexiteers have convinced yourselves that you are somehow saviors of the UK when in reality you have voted to do massive damage to the country. The economy is in a tailspin. The pound has tanked since the result was announced. The UK's global standing is now a joke. Scottish independence now has a majority in favour.

In short. You guys have broken the UK.  

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You Brexiteers have convinced yourselves that you are somehow saviors of the UK when in reality you have voted to do massive damage to the country. The economy is in a tailspin. The pound has tanked since the result was announced. The UK's global standing is now a joke. Scottish independence now has a majority in favour.

In short. You guys have broken the UK.  

so theres a majority for scottish independence?make your mind up a few posts back you were gloating how the sassenachs were paying for your prescriptions and education,you do more u turns than an uber driver with a broken sat nav.

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Here's  a little bit of "project fear".... but hang on! It's the Daily Express!!

 

Millennium bug 2021 will be as nonsensical as the original.

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

so theres a majority for scottish independence?make your mind up a few posts back you were gloating how the sassenachs were paying for your prescriptions and education,you do more u turns than an uber driver with a broken sat nav.

You dont do sarcasm do you?

Its post # 1146 should you wish to read it again.

[bannork]

I see that Brexit has been taken off the agenda for a high level EU meeting next week. 

No progress in talks so nothing to discuss. They've given up on the UK. 

WTO tariffs here we come, and of course all those tedious customs checks. 

 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

You dont do sarcasm do you?

Its post # 1146 should you wish to read it again.

It's just that you're obviously not very good at it. I thought you were being serious too - it's so close to the truth. Better leave a sarcasm emoji or something next time.

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, bannork said:

I see that Brexit has been taken off the agenda for a high level EU meeting next week. 

No progress in talks so nothing to discuss. They've given up on the UK. 

WTO tariffs here we come, and of course all those tedious customs checks. 

 

Getting ready for No Deal then. They've eventually realised that Boris & Frost won't capitulate like May did. 

Don't worry about the customs checks, because those containers won't. 

[david555]

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/28/barnier-flabbergasted-uk-attempt-reopen-brexit-specialty-food-drink-debate

 

Barnier 'flabbergasted' at UK attempt to reopen Brexit specialty food debate

Bloc sources say Britain is trying to water down EU geographical protections

 

 

Jennifer Rankin in Brussels

Fri 28 Aug 2020 14.58 BST

Last modified on Fri 28 Aug 2020 17.04 BST

 

 

The UK government has renewed its attempt to reopen the chapter of the Brexit divorce treaty protecting specialty food and drink, such as Parma ham, roquefort cheese and champagne, in a move that left the EU chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, “a little bit flabbergasted”.

 

The British proposal on protected status for food and drink was included in a draft free-trade agreement handed to Barnier by his opposite number, David Frost, last week, according to two EU sources.

 

But EU officials have ruled out diluting the divorce deal provisions that protect more than 3,000 high-end food and drink products from copycats. “It’s just not going to happen,” said one official.

Edited August 29, 2020 by david555

[RuamRudy]

A very interesting - and seemingly non-partisan - analysis of the difficult situation that Johnson and Frost have found themselves in:

 

 

[Phulublub]

51 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

A very interesting - and seemingly non-partisan - analysis of the difficult situation that Johnson and Frost have found themselves in:

 

 

While I have some sympathy for Frost, Johnson boxed himself into his corner, so for him I none whatsoever.

 

PH

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

A very interesting - and seemingly non-partisan - analysis of the difficult situation that Johnson and Frost have found themselves in:

 

 

Johnson and the Brexiteers have promised so much they effectively painted themselves into a corner.

Anything but total and complete hard Brexit is now labeled as BRINO. 

Mays deal was as good as it gets. However it was not enough for anyone. Leavers hated it. Remainers hated it. But the truth was this was all that could be obtained.

Oddly enough, Brexiteers, who knew what they were voting for, are astonished that this was what Brexit meant. 

Now the dummy has been spat. Its no deal Brexit. Most of us have seen this coming for a long time but apparently for those who knew what they were voting for its a massive surprise.

They need to understand.

You get what you vote for.  

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Johnson and the Brexiteers have promised so much they effectively painted themselves into a corner.

Anything but total and complete hard Brexit is now labeled as BRINO. 

Mays deal was as good as it gets. However it was not enough for anyone. Leavers hated it. Remainers hated it. But the truth was this was all that could be obtained.

Oddly enough, Brexiteers, who knew what they were voting for, are astonished that this was what Brexit meant. 

Now the dummy has been spat. Its no deal Brexit. Most of us have seen this coming for a long time but apparently for those who knew what they were voting for its a massive surprise.

They need to understand.

You get what you vote for.  

If Mays deal was as "good as it gets" any reason you lot didn't vote for it.

 

"You get what you vote for" or in your case you get what you didn't vote for.????????????

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

If Mays deal was as "good as it gets" any reason you lot didn't vote for it.

 

"You get what you vote for" or in your case you get what you didn't vote for.????????????

Yes because any form of Brexit is a stupid idea. Its gong to damage the country massively. Remainers were never going to vote for any form of Brexit because its a dumb idea.

 

We get what the Brexiteers voted for. Now own it. Your votes, your fault. 

[Mavideol]

On 8/27/2020 at 12:32 PM, bannork said:

I see that Brexit has been taken off the agenda for a high level EU meeting next week. 

No progress in talks so nothing to discuss. They've given up on the UK. 

WTO tariffs here we come, and of course all those tedious customs checks. 

 

heard about lots of investment (money handed) made by the EU to some UK research labs and affiliates/related, did Brexit thought about all of the people having a job thanks to that and soon, very soon they will be collecting unemployment, what a shame, I do know 4-5 people that will be affected by such no sense decisions,  one of them is my nephew

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yes because any form of Brexit is a stupid idea. Its gong to damage the country massively. Remainers were never going to vote for any form of Brexit because its a dumb idea.

 

We get what the Brexiteers voted for. Now own it. Your votes, your fault. 

Sorry, you don't vote, you have to accept all the consequences.

[Airbagwill]

Looking forward to your Australian Stilton, New York Cumberland sausage and Buenos Aires Pork Pies?

[Loiner]

29 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yes because any form of Brexit is a stupid idea. Its gong to damage the country massively. Remainers were never going to vote for any form of Brexit because its a dumb idea.

 

We get what the Brexiteers voted for. Now own it. Your votes, your fault. 

Well more of us think Brexit is a great idea, which will only improve our country massively. Remainers never really knew anything about it because of their dumb EU ideas.

 

Let's hear it for all the Brexiteers out there, who have saved us from the EU. You should all be thankful for those Brexiteers votes. As we get closer to the end of transition it only gets better, with Barnier, Macon and Merkel running round like headless chickens now.

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

Sorry, you don't vote, you have to accept all the consequences.

Yeah us expats were kind of relying on the British public to see sense and vote against Brexit.

We should have known better.

All those slogans like "Taking back control" and "They need us more than we need them" were so hard to see through. Especially when Brexiteers knew what they were voting for. Those clever chaps.

You got what you voted for.

The wheels on the bus have come off.