Democrat Joe Biden chooses U.S. Senator Kamala Harris for White House running mate

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd still have voted for him.

Big whoop. 

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You must have missed all my posts explaining why I support Trump, of which there have been many. I don't support him per se ( I'd have voted for Bernie both times ), I just oppose the establishment candidates the Dems have put up.

Had the Dems put up a decent candidate on both occasions Trump would be toast. Had Bernie been the candidate last time, IMO he'd have wiped Trump by many millions.

It really baffles me that someone who is a Bernie Sanders supporter (I am too) would vote Trump because he feels the establishment candidates are worse.

I am not a fan of these establishment candidates neither, but I would vote for them any time (even while having to close my nose when doing so) if that would keep Trump from getting a second term.  And at least there is a progressive wing in the Democratic party that the center and right-wing establishment Dems have to take into consideration.  In Camp Trump it's only corruption, incompetence and hatred for anything that smells progressive.  So for me a Biden-Harris ticket is disappointing, but 100 times better than the evil Trump-Pence duo. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

And then your final decision to swing your vote from Sanders to Trump is  grounded on how the final nominee's appearance - according to your standards - resonates with yours? 

And now you understand why the most beautiful girl in the world isn't the one who wins the contest...   

Hmmmmm. Have you forgotten that the DNC ousted Bernie from contention? NOBODY got to vote for Bernie.

Had I been able to I would have voted for Bernie over Trump.

Given that this thread isn't about me can we stop asking me personal questions?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

It really baffles me that someone who is a Bernie Sanders supporter (I am too) would vote Trump because he feels the establishment candidates are worse.

I am not a fan of these establishment candidates neither, but I would vote for them any time (even while having to close my nose when doing so) if that would keep Trump from getting a second term.  And at least there is a progressive wing in the Democratic party that the center and right-wing establishment Dems have to take into consideration.  In Camp Trump it's only corruption, incompetence and hatred for anything that smells progressive.  So for me a Biden-Harris ticket is disappointing, but 100 times better than the evil Trump-Pence duo. 

I can only assume that you don't understand how much the common man dislikes Washington. Trump was outside the establishment, as was, IMO, Bernie.

Trump, despite all his failings still represents the anti establishment, as no other has stepped up to do so.

I am certain that should another anti establishment candidate that is more seemly than Trump appear before convention, they would be chosen over Trump, if such was permitted.

[Tippaporn]

43 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

If 'Trump's comments were honest and truthful' then why did they sound like a schollyard bully picking on a fellow 7 year old? He described a political opponent as 'nasty, 'angry' a 'madwoman'. I really wouldn't mind his criticism IF it sounded like it was coming from an adult and especially the POTUS. And then of course the 'birther' conspiracy debacle. I mean really? Do you think this is fitting coming from the POTUS?

And Harris wasn't disrespectful and vicious towards Kavanaugh; she was forthright and dogged (which is her nature as a prosecutor) and Kavanaugh is a big boy after all and had some SERIOUS questions to answer. And again your statement 'She displayed none of that towards Biden when she said she believed his accuser' is factually incorrect. Harris only said she thought the accusers had every right to be heard NOT that she believed them. This is completely made up by Fox News (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-believe-biden-accusers/). 

 

Gimme a break with the "schoolyard bully" analogy and the reference to adulthood.  You could rightfully accuse just about every poster here for engaging in those antics.  Trump gave his opinion of her.  He doesn't like her.  So what?  You don't like Trump and speak less of him than he does of Harris.  Stop with the hypocrisy.  You folks change your values as quickly as the wind changes direction.  LOL

 

You're right about one thing, Harris dogged Kavanaugh.  She tried to set him up to perjure himself with the Mueller question.  That's right, she's a prosecutor and knows how it's done.  And given her track record as a prosecutor I'd say she's a dirty one, too.

 

Huffington Post - Kamala Harris On Joe Biden Accusers: ‘I Believe Them’

 

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) said she believes the women who have come forward alleging that former Vice President Joe Biden touched them without their consent. 

“I believe them, and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it,” Harris told reporters at a presidential campaign stop in Nevada on Tuesday.

 

Mind you, that's a direct quote from Harris.  That's the trouble with using "fact-checkers," especially Snopes.  Do your own homework.

[Opl]

41 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. Have you forgotten that the DNC ousted Bernie from contention? NOBODY got to vote for Bernie.

Had I been able to I would have voted for Bernie over Trump.

Given that this thread isn't about me can we stop asking me personal questions?

I didn't ask you anything personal, you alone brought up the details of your vote,  and FYI, here are Bernie's :

 Bernie defends Harris 

"“A lot of my supporters are not enthusiastic about Joe Biden. You know why? I ran against Joe Biden,” Sanders said. “But I think there is overwhelming understanding that Donald Trump must be defeated, Biden must be elected. And that the day after he's elected we're going to do everything we can to create a government that works for all of us and not the 1 percent and wealthy campaign contributors.”

Sanders will speak Monday night in support of the Biden ticket at the Democratic National Convention.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/16/sanders-harris-vice-president-396150

Edited August 17, 2020 by Opl

[Tippaporn]

The headline says it all, LOL.

 

Daily Mail - 'Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up': Obama has shared private doubts about Biden's 2020 chances claim insiders - as tensions grow over ex-president's lack of support for Democrat candidate

 

Tensions linger between the camps with the VP determined to prove the naysayers wrong after Obama backed former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as his successor in 2016, Politico states.

While the former President has publicly backed Biden - albeit late in the day - he is said to be warning his inner circle that he may not be fit for office.

 

It's only been too obvious that Obama lacks faith in Biden.  I wonder why . . . 

[Tippaporn]

This is surprising coming from the very, very, very far left site Politico.

 

Left wing rankled by choice of Harris for VP - "We might be looking at 12 years of neoliberal power at the top of the Democratic Party," one activist says.

 

Some liberals said Harris’ selection is a serious disappointment because of her record as a prosecutor and history of flip-flopping on "Medicare for All."

 

Jeezus, there are libs who agree with me?

[simple1]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Had I been able to I would have voted for Bernie over Trump.

Can you vote in the US elections, or are you just fantasising?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

I'm sure you have the documented evidence, Chomper.  LOL

I don’t need the documented evidence, the Senate has it.

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

42 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Gimme a break with the "schoolyard bully" analogy and the reference to adulthood.  You could rightfully accuse just about every poster here for engaging in those antics.  Trump gave his opinion of her.  He doesn't like her.  So what?  You don't like Trump and speak less of him than he does of Harris.  Stop with the hypocrisy.  You folks change your values as quickly as the wind changes direction.  LOL

 

You're right about one thing, Harris dogged Kavanaugh.  She tried to set him up to perjure himself with the Mueller question.  That's right, she's a prosecutor and knows how it's done.  And given her track record as a prosecutor I'd say she's a dirty one, too.

 

Huffington Post - Kamala Harris On Joe Biden Accusers: ‘I Believe Them’

 

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) said she believes the women who have come forward alleging that former Vice President Joe Biden touched them without their consent. 

“I believe them, and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it,” Harris told reporters at a presidential campaign stop in Nevada on Tuesday.

 

Mind you, that's a direct quote from Harris.  That's the trouble with using "fact-checkers," especially Snopes.  Do your own homework.

I thought taking things out of context was beneath you Tippaporn. I was obviously incorrect.

 

At an event in Carson City, Nevada, on April 2, 2019, a reporter asked Harris the following question:

“As somebody who has a relationship with Vice President Biden, what message would you give the women who feel like their space has been invaded in the past, by the vice president?”

Harris replied: “I believe them, and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it.”

This was in reference to women who had accused Biden of 'invading their personal space' NOT Sexual misconduct. 

In an all Political” podcast, later in April 2020, Harris said Reade (the one who actuall accused him of sexual misconduct) had a right to be heard, and should face no repercussions for “telling her story,” but defended Biden’s record as “somebody who really has fought for women and empowerment of women and women’s equality and rights”:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-believe-biden-accusers/

 

You can watch the actual interview here https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=1560366610762254&ref=watch_permalink

 

Can we stop banging this drum now or are you going to say she said something else after actually seeing the words coming out of her mouth?

[Morch]

56 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Gimme a break with the "schoolyard bully" analogy and the reference to adulthood.  You could rightfully accuse just about every poster here for engaging in those antics.  Trump gave his opinion of her.  He doesn't like her.  So what?  You don't like Trump and speak less of him than he does of Harris.  Stop with the hypocrisy.  You folks change your values as quickly as the wind changes direction.  LOL

 

You're right about one thing, Harris dogged Kavanaugh.  She tried to set him up to perjure himself with the Mueller question.  That's right, she's a prosecutor and knows how it's done.  And given her track record as a prosecutor I'd say she's a dirty one, too.

 

Huffington Post - Kamala Harris On Joe Biden Accusers: ‘I Believe Them’

 

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) said she believes the women who have come forward alleging that former Vice President Joe Biden touched them without their consent. 

“I believe them, and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it,” Harris told reporters at a presidential campaign stop in Nevada on Tuesday.

 

Mind you, that's a direct quote from Harris.  That's the trouble with using "fact-checkers," especially Snopes.  Do your own homework.

 

So Trump is not beholden to the same standards as anonymous posters, yet ought to be respected for the office he holds. Cute.

[Morch]

26 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

This is surprising coming from the very, very, very far left site Politico.

 

Left wing rankled by choice of Harris for VP - "We might be looking at 12 years of neoliberal power at the top of the Democratic Party," one activist says.

 

Some liberals said Harris’ selection is a serious disappointment because of her record as a prosecutor and history of flip-flopping on "Medicare for All."

 

Jeezus, there are libs who agree with me?

 

Politico is "very, very, very far left" only if you're very, very, very far to the right. I think if Trump supporters practice it, they could manage "left" without the "far", "extreme" and other additions.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Politico is "very, very, very far left" only if you're very, very, very far to the right. I think if Trump supporters practice it, they could manage "left" without the "far", "extreme" and other additions.

beat me too it????

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

 

You're right about one thing, Harris dogged Kavanaugh.  She tried to set him up to perjure himself with the Mueller question.  That's right, she's a prosecutor and knows how it's done.  And given her track record as a prosecutor I'd say she's a dirty one, too.

 

Harris didn’t ‘try to set Kavanaugh up to perjure himself’, she came to the hearing well prepared and asked him questions about actions that are criminal.

 

Nothing ‘dirty’ about it, she even cautioned him to be very careful with his answers.

 

Yes she’s a prosecutor and knows how to interrogate a liar she’s done it many times.

 

Just like Kavanaugh is a judge and he know’s when a prosecutor has nailed someone for lying, he’s seen it many times, though perhaps he never expected to be on the receiving end - he certainly wasn’t prepared for Harris nailing him.

 

Kavanaugh knows where this is leading.

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. Have you forgotten that the DNC ousted Bernie from contention? NOBODY got to vote for Bernie.

Had I been able to I would have voted for Bernie over Trump.

Given that this thread isn't about me can we stop asking me personal questions?

I don't think anyone is meaning for this to get personal TBL but it is VERY interesting to many how a Bernie fan could consider Trump being better than Biden. We get the 'he talks and thinks just like me' part but surely all the lying and conspiracies and general lack of asbility to do the job must be a factor?

Anyway, come away from the dark side.............there is good in you Luke/TBL. Together we can overcome this eveil!!????

[johnnybangkok]

51 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

This is surprising coming from the very, very, very far left site Politico.

 

Left wing rankled by choice of Harris for VP - "We might be looking at 12 years of neoliberal power at the top of the Democratic Party," one activist says.

 

Some liberals said Harris’ selection is a serious disappointment because of her record as a prosecutor and history of flip-flopping on "Medicare for All."

 

Jeezus, there are libs who agree with me?

These are all just opinion pieces you keep quoting. 

Whats your point? That these are facts or just what someone’s opinion is as I can find you 100 opinions from disillusioned Republicans who think Trump is basically evil. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by johnnybangkok

[Tippaporn]

40 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t need the documented evidence, the Senate has it.

Coming from you it's as good as hearsay.  Care to produce it?

[darksidedog]

49 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

This is surprising coming from the very, very, very far left site Politico.

Where on earth did you get that ludicrous statement from?

A swift media bias check shows Politico are absolutely balanced in their reporting, offer both sides of the argument and support everything with reputable facts. They have even been accused by some of favoring the right!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/politico/

Everyone out there may want to use the site offered here, in order to be able to tell whether what they are reading is credible or slanted, to avoid such a mistake in the future.

[DrTuner]

8 hours ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

You do understand that Trump is only 4 years younger than Biden, Trump's YOUNGER brother just died and The Donald is not about to get on a mountain bike for a ride like Biden was just recorded doing. Quit pushing the Biden is about to die bit.,..nobody is buying that he will go before Trump when POTUS is in the shape he is in when he is 74 years old. Trump could drop of a heart attack at any moment given the shape is he in and the stress he is under. That is a scenario NOBODY can deny.

Yes, both are ancient. While I don't understand the need for a strongman in the US to begin with, if they insist on one, why not get somebody like Macron instead of current pick of geriatrics.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, darksidedog said:

Where on earth did you get that ludicrous statement from?

A swift media bias check shows Politico are absolutely balanced in their reporting, offer both sides of the argument and support everything with reputable facts. They have even been accused by some of favoring the right!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/politico/

Everyone out there may want to use the site offered here, in order to be able to tell whether what they are reading is credible or slanted, to avoid such a mistake in the future.

 

Ah, but to those familiar with Trump supporters' and Right Wing lore, these fact check websites are all just a liberal front, funded by Soros, and invested in hating Trump. That's where "alternative" media and alternative facts kick in.

[ThreeEyedRaven]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Ah, but to those familiar with Trump supporters' and Right Wing lore, these fact check websites are all just a liberal front, funded by Soros, and invested in hating Trump. That's where "alternative" media and alternative facts kick in.

Sadly true, though I have always believed that the intelligent man will search for the fair and balanced perspective, while the fool will only read that which echoes their ideology, regardless of how far from the truth it is. It is after all, tough to respect the tunnel vision view of someone who can't be bothered to check out if they are spouting garbage.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I don't think anyone is meaning for this to get personal TBL but it is VERY interesting to many how a Bernie fan could consider Trump being better than Biden. We get the 'he talks and thinks just like me' part but surely all the lying and conspiracies and general lack of asbility to do the job must be a factor?

Anyway, come away from the dark side.............there is good in you Luke/TBL. Together we can overcome this eveil!!????

OK. I'm someone that votes on the bigger picture. I look at the policies and support whomever is closest to what I want. I don't need to go into them in detail, but they are a mix of socialist and conservative policies eg I'm for free universal health care and serious punishment for serious criminals ie life means life in prison till die there, but against liberal immigration policies and dole without working for it.

I supported Bernie as I thought he wanted to stick it to the banks and the very rich. I support Trump on immigration, small government, law and order and a strong military. The actual pick for the Dems isn't going to bring in universal health care and they are not going to do any of the other things I want other than allow abortion, so I don't support them. Given that Trump is the only conservative option he'd get my vote. If Biden came out and said he'd limit immigration, support law and order against the rioters, really tax the very rich and jail the bankers responsible for sub prime mortgages I'd probably support him

Far as personalities, I don't care much what they do in their personal lives, and I assume that they all lie.

 

BTW, I actually liked Obama- very personable man, but his health care bill was far short of universal and kept the insurance companies, and he was way too lenient on the bankers. I also thought his stance on Iran was wrong. If he'd kept his promise to eliminate Guantanamo I'd have had more respect for him.

[Tippaporn]

44 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I thought taking things out of context was beneath you Tippaporn. I was obviously incorrect.

 

At an event in Carson City, Nevada, on April 2, 2019, a reporter asked Harris the following question:

“As somebody who has a relationship with Vice President Biden, what message would you give the women who feel like their space has been invaded in the past, by the vice president?”

Harris replied: “I believe them, and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it.”

This was in reference to women who had accused Biden of 'invading their personal space' NOT Sexual misconduct. 

In an all Political” podcast, later in April 2020, Harris said Reade (the one who actuall accused him of sexual misconduct) had a right to be heard, and should face no repercussions for “telling her story,” but defended Biden’s record as “somebody who really has fought for women and empowerment of women and women’s equality and rights”:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-believe-biden-accusers/

 

You can watch the actual interview here https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=1560366610762254&ref=watch_permalink

 

Can we stop banging this drum now or are you going to say she said something else after actually seeing the words coming out of her mouth?

Taking things out of context?  LOL  You're attempting to use newspeak with me.  The reporter obviously couched his language in as benign terms as possible.  How graphic should he have been during a presser?  We all know the question was in reference to Tara Reade.  And what was her allegation?  That Biden poked his fingers into her.  What do you think "their space has been invaded" means, johnny?  If Biden had his fingers in her that would fit the definition of having her space invaded.  Sniffed her hair?  Ditto.  Kissed her?  Ditto?  Stroked her hair.  Yup.  Cupped her mammary gland.  That's a fit.  If Biden stood within a few inches of her the expression would cover that, too.  How about a few feet?  In the same room?  Could mean just about anything, right?  But we all know what it means and so did Harris.

 

As to what she said at a later date please now convince me that politicians never backtrack or rephrase their original statements to change their meaning.  Harris would never do that, right?  I'll bet the woman never lied in her life, either.  LOL

 

The written quotes are verbatim from the audio of the video.

 

If you want to take this further, and let's just say I'm being dogged with you, then please give us the precise definition of "their space has been invaded."  What does that mean according to you?

 

Simply amazing how many people have picked up on using Bill Clinton's deceptive tact of, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."  Play word games all you like with yourself, johnny.

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

Where on earth did you get that ludicrous statement from?

A swift media bias check shows Politico are absolutely balanced in their reporting, offer both sides of the argument and support everything with reputable facts. They have even been accused by some of favoring the right!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/politico/

Everyone out there may want to use the site offered here, in order to be able to tell whether what they are reading is credible or slanted, to avoid such a mistake in the future.

Reading a few posts down Morch is correct . . . I can't speak for others but he is correct in my case.  I wouldn't trust fact checkers as far as I could throw them.  True, Politico has and does publish articles objectively without attempting to use selective facts and innuendo to spin a narrative or lead the reader to a predetermined conclusion.  Yet from my experience, especially in this TV sub-forum, I don't think I've ever seen a conservative link to a Politico article to support their viewpoint, other than perhaps to use a Politco article as a contrarian viewpoint.  But they are used frequently by the left here.  So I certainly question the claim that they're balanced.  Far, far left?  In my opinion they've gone there.

 

Not to go off topic but just this past week Dan Bongino had an article taken down from his FaceBook page by their fact checkers for containing false information, specifically a verbatim Nancy Pelosi quote.  Well, I can't rightly remember whether it was taken down or a comment appended to his article by FaceBook.  In any case, he produced Pelosi's quote both in print from a well known MSM outlet and the actual video of Pelosi mouthing the words.  No, I don't trust fact checkers.  There's too much crookedness in the world to hand them my blind trust on important issues.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Reading a few posts down Morch is correct . . . I can't speak for others but he is correct in my case.  I wouldn't trust fact checkers as far as I could throw them.  True, Politico has and does publish articles objectively without attempting to use selective facts and innuendo to spin a narrative or lead the reader to a predetermined conclusion.  Yet from my experience, especially in this TV sub-forum, I don't think I've ever seen a conservative link to a Politico article to support their viewpoint, other than perhaps to use a Politco article as a contrarian viewpoint.  But they are used frequently by the left here.  So I certainly question the claim that they're balanced.  Far, far left?  In my opinion they've gone there.

 

Not to go off topic but just this past week Dan Bongino had an article taken down from his FaceBook page by their fact checkers for containing false information, specifically a verbatim Nancy Pelosi quote.  Well, I can't rightly remember whether it was taken down or a comment appended to his article by FaceBook.  In any case, he produced Pelosi's quote both in print from a well known MSM outlet and the actual video of Pelosi mouthing the words.  No, I don't trust fact checkers.  There's too much crookedness in the world to hand them my blind trust on important issues.

The right (Trumpers) spout so many lies they have to be corrected by independent factcheckers, the left far less.

So now the right is using corrections to lies as proof that fact checkers are left.

 

No, it only proofs the right (Trumpers) lie.

Edited August 17, 2020 by stevenl

[johnnybangkok]

34 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Taking things out of context?  LOL  You're attempting to use newspeak with me.  The reporter obviously couched his language in as benign terms as possible.  How graphic should he have been during a presser?  We all know the question was in reference to Tara Reade.  And what was her allegation?  That Biden poked his fingers into her.  What do you think "their space has been invaded" means, johnny?  If Biden had his fingers in her that would fit the definition of having her space invaded.  Sniffed her hair?  Ditto.  Kissed her?  Ditto?  Stroked her hair.  Yup.  Cupped her mammary gland.  That's a fit.  If Biden stood within a few inches of her the expression would cover that, too.  How about a few feet?  In the same room?  Could mean just about anything, right?  But we all know what it means and so did Harris.

 

As to what she said at a later date please now convince me that politicians never backtrack or rephrase their original statements to change their meaning.  Harris would never do that, right?  I'll bet the woman never lied in her life, either.  LOL

 

The written quotes are verbatim from the audio of the video.

 

If you want to take this further, and let's just say I'm being dogged with you, then please give us the precise definition of "their space has been invaded."  What does that mean according to you?

 

Simply amazing how many people have picked up on using Bill Clinton's deceptive tact of, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."  Play word games all you like with yourself, johnny.

The journalist asked the question 1 year before Reade had made her accusation (the interview was in April 2019, Reade didn't make her accusation until March 2020 -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_assault_allegation#:~:text=In March 2020%2C Tara Reade,assistant in his Senate office), so unless she was using a crystal ball, she can't have been refering to accusation of sexual misconduct, because at that time there hadn't been any made.

 

Now can we please let this go? You've been proven wrong, please just accept it. 

 

[Tippaporn]

23 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

The journalist asked the question 1 year before Reade had made her accusation (the interview was in April 2019, Reade didn't make her accusation until March 2020 -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_assault_allegation#:~:text=In March 2020%2C Tara Reade,assistant in his Senate office), so unless she was using a crystal ball, she can't have been refering to accusation of sexual misconduct, because at that time there hadn't been any made.

 

Now can we please let this go? You've been proven wrong, please just accept it. 

I was under the impression that the presser, actually a teacher's roundtable, was held after Reade made her allegation.  You are correct and my mistake.  So now you all know that I will admit to being in error.  Hopefully there will be some reciprocity.  I've yet to hear a lib here admit they're wrong on any point.  It's not difficult to do.  In any case, you all now know me to be a stand up guy.  

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Tippaporn

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I call B.S. 

 

If Bernie had been nominated he would have been red baited to death in 16 and 20.

 

Anyone with an elementary understanding of American politics knows that. 

 

Happily there are way fewer Bernie to trump turncoats this time. Why? Because now we know for sure that he's a wanna fascist dictator. Plus his disastrously bad response to the pandemic. 

 

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

It really baffles me that someone who is a Bernie Sanders supporter (I am too) would vote Trump because he feels the establishment candidates are worse.

I am not a fan of these establishment candidates neither, but I would vote for them any time (even while having to close my nose when doing so) if that would keep Trump from getting a second term.  And at least there is a progressive wing in the Democratic party that the center and right-wing establishment Dems have to take into consideration.  In Camp Trump it's only corruption, incompetence and hatred for anything that smells progressive.  So for me a Biden-Harris ticket is disappointing, but 100 times better than the evil Trump-Pence duo. 

This is really interesting, and a reflection of the fact (To me) that politics is not a one dimensional business. Graphs can show a libertarian/authoritarian axis, a standard left/right axis on social policies, and others.  

 

"It really baffles me that someone who is a Bernie Sanders supporter (I am too) would vote Trump because he feels the establishment candidates are worse."

 

Let's just take that back to left wing supporter voting right wing, it certainly is strange, but extreme left to extreme right is not such a leap, when you see them both so far out on the authoritarian axis, Stalin and Hitler had a lot in common. The "Establishment" is middle of the road, and is a big bugbear to many people, but that is where most practical things actually get done. The worrying thing is that as we get more and more carried away by ideology, the less capable we become of focussing on reality, and practical matters. Debts are real, tax income is finite, the state cannot fund everything. The broader picture of politics is not seen by many, particularly the passionate and idealistic young, these are the ones who can so alarmingly switch from far left to far right. 

 

The greatest issue in politics is corruption, this does not belong exclusively to left or right, although it is blindingly obvious to me that Trump, Boris Johnson, and their cronies are putting in a an awe inspiring performance in the promotion of corruption, and the dismantling of democratic safeguards at the moment. There is plenty of corruption on the left of course, it is just dressed up in a different way. The old Labour councils of Strathclyde were notorious, for a Scottish example.

 

I think Kamala is great, and electable. Bernie Saunders is centre left in European terms, but for the USA I would say too far left to be elected. Corbyn has a fraction of Saunders brains (Let alone Warren's) and was un-electable. Biden is old, but basically decent, and certainly electable.

 

 

[Dave0206]

On 8/15/2020 at 2:48 PM, riclag said:

Upgrading like how,overhaul the whole, its the same as burning down !

 My country can't wait for the election to be over!  There are some serious far left radical ideas that have to be addressed in America.

"Restore The Soul of America. Our best days still lie ahead.Anything is possible!  "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_2020_presidential_campaign

My country has heard the above in a broad sense for over 40 years!

This is his third attempt to be president of the United States.Hopefully it will be his last.its politicians like him, that have filled communities with false hope! The proof of that happen in the last election, 2016 when America's electorate voted down the continuation of it.   

Funny how far left socialism is such an easy word to throw at any policy not supported by top republicans. Support to farmers or to any part of the country that receives more than they put in to the pot is the perfect example of socialism at work many red states do like a handout and that’s fine but remember it may well be this crazy far left idiots that are supporting your subsidies with there tax dollars.

Fear mongering is easy with health care being no1 on the agenda 

I’m sure crazy bernies ideas do not seem so stupid now that many people have lost there jobs and with it any health insurance that went along with it.

Most of western world can not understand how for such an advanced nation no1 reason in states for bankruptcy is medical bills.

In Uk for example we have nhs plus if you or your company wish you can supplement it by paying extra to be covered for most medical operations in private hospitals