What's your thought on permenant residency??

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

For most of your post I can see where you are coming from, but I refuse to believe that the Thai government cannot fix health insurance through some government hospital scheme, and what about insurance companies cancelling or raising the cost of policies after someone reaches a certain age.

You read about this all the time on this forum.

Health insurance prices are so high for old age because the cost is so high for old age. Many old people are more often sick, including many chronic condition like i.e. diabetes. And operations, i.e. for heart problems are very expensive - all over the world.

A long time ago I worked in the health insurance business and it was always the case the premiums for old people were high. The premiums for old people are a little lower if those people were with the same insurance company (and tariff) for decades. But they are still high because the cost are high.

 

The only way for insurance companies to offer lower prices is to exclude some (expensive) services or limit the amounts which they pay for some services or total amounts or to insure only people who are very healthy or to offer short time insurance (i.e. only for the duration of a one month holiday). 

I am sure insurance companies would love to offer contracts for old people for reasonable amounts. But they obviously only do that if they make money with that. And Thailand and other countries will think similar to the insurance companies. Maybe not making money but at least not losing money.

 

The only exception are our home countries. Because if we are old at home and we are sick then the home country pays anyhow. Option a they pay our health insurance or doctor (i.e. NHS). Option b if we are broke our home countries give us a place to live and survive. And I think it's obvious why we should not expect the same for foreign countries where we chose to live or would like to live.

 

This is just one of the graphs which shows the situation (I just took the first one I found).

 

 

[jomtienisgood]

18 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If married you apply for citizenship.

No need for PR.

Not correct, you can apply for any one of them.....

[jomtienisgood]

17 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Ive heard that too, is it actually feasible ?

 

would go for citizenship but not PR.. Assuming I would have to change my current extension to be based on marriage rather than work.

Do you speak fluently Thai and can you sing the National Anthem????

Willing to give up your native nationality????

 

[Boomer6969]

15 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Not correct, you can apply for any one of them.....

You can only if you can show 3 years of continuous employment with matching income tax receipts. I.e retired people on "Thai Wife" extensions should not waste their time dreaming of PR or Citizenship.

As far as I am concerned at 68 applying for 8 or 9 more extensions, with my wife being also quite good as a private agent, will be less work than going through all the excrement required for PR or citizenship. Honestly that's probably the Thai authorities' thinking too.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Boomer6969

[Don Mega]

6 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Do you speak fluently Thai and can you sing the National Anthem????

Willing to give up your native nationality????

 

Not "fluent" in thai but I can hold a conversation, Every morning 8am at work we sing the national anthem.

 

not keen to give up my passport.

[NoshowJones]

18 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Health insurance prices are so high for old age because the cost is so high for old age. Many old people are more often sick, including many chronic condition like i.e. diabetes. And operations, i.e. for heart problems are very expensive - all over the world.

A long time ago I worked in the health insurance business and it was always the case the premiums for old people were high. The premiums for old people are a little lower if those people were with the same insurance company (and tariff) for decades. But they are still high because the cost are high.

 

The only way for insurance companies to offer lower prices is to exclude some (expensive) services or limit the amounts which they pay for some services or total amounts or to insure only people who are very healthy or to offer short time insurance (i.e. only for the duration of a one month holiday). 

I am sure insurance companies would love to offer contracts for old people for reasonable amounts. But they obviously only do that if they make money with that. And Thailand and other countries will think similar to the insurance companies. Maybe not making money but at least not losing money.

 

The only exception are our home countries. Because if we are old at home and we are sick then the home country pays anyhow. Option a they pay our health insurance or doctor (i.e. NHS). Option b if we are broke our home countries give us a place to live and survive. And I think it's obvious why we should not expect the same for foreign countries where we chose to live or would like to live.

 

This is just one of the graphs which shows the situation (I just took the first one I found).

 

 

I still think more can be done and I appreciate what you are saying, but I won't change my mind about insurance companies and all the dirty tricks they play to try and avoid paying out on claims.

[sanuk711]

On 8/14/2020 at 9:49 AM, possum1931 said:

to do these ridiculous 90 day reports etc, it is alright saying that their wives or family can do it,

Yes they can---or a few strokes on the computer---or you can post it---or an agent can do it for about 100-150 each time.

And its only 3 times in a year.....

 

Wow what a burden we have to go through .....................Next...........

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Not correct, you can apply for any one of them.....

Yes you can, but you'd have to be bloody stupid to apply for PR when you were entitled to apply for citizenship.

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Not "fluent" in thai but I can hold a conversation, Every morning 8am at work we sing the national anthem.

not keen to give up my passport.

There is no requirement to give up your current citizenship when you get Thai citizenship.

But there is a bit of paper to sign saying you will.

 

Thailand is all about saying, and hardly ever about doing.

Edited August 15, 2020 by BritManToo

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I still think more can be done and I appreciate what you are saying, but I won't change my mind about insurance companies and all the dirty tricks they play to try and avoid paying out on claims.

And which insurance companies play these dirty tricks? Mostly the "cheap" companies.

The companies who pay without much hassle are normally the expensive companies...

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, sanuk711 said:

Yes they can---or a few strokes on the computer---or you can post it---or an agent can do it for about 100-150 each time.

And its only 3 times in a year.....

 

Wow what a burden we have to go through .....................Next...........

Didn't you read all of my post? t100-150 each time?? The agent opposite the Big C in Pattaya charges 500Bt to do a report, and 1000Bt to correct a simple mistake made on my passport arriving at Swampy.

[rimmae2]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Yes you can, but you'd have to be bloody stupid to apply for PR when you were entitled to apply for citizenship.

Depends entirely on the individual's circumstances and you probably don't know enough about it. In the last say 8 years processing and approval time for PRs has been quicker than for citizenship (1-1.5 years typically). In the years prior to above period processing and approval time for PR was significantly longer and in some years applications were not opened.

 

As such if there is a risk that a person may not meet the requirements for citizenship (for example WP and paying taxes) ove a long period (i.e. may retire or lose their job) PR may be a better option. Of course all knowledgeable people should know that there are ways to keep a work permit.

 

Above is from first hand knowledge and experience. One problem is that people often really don't know what is required to apply for PR and citizenship. Former is quicker and probably harder to obtian than citizenship; latter takes longer. 

[sanuk711]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Didn't you read all of my post? t100-150 each time?? The agent opposite the Big C in Pattaya charges 500Bt to do a report, and 1000Bt to correct a simple mistake made on my passport arriving at Swampy.

What can I say possum--then your using the wrong agent,

 

I think I over reacted a little possum, because those who have lived here for a while (for me its only about 21 years)  have seen nothing but improvements in the 90 day and Visa in general. You use to have to leave the country for your 90 days...how would your old fella like that?

 

The computer thing is up and running in most places and that's what the agents use when they do the 90 day for you. When all the kinks are out of it--You really cant complain about doing a computer log in just 3 times a year.

 

For the general visa--(1 year) --you used to have to get it from a Thai embassy Outside of Thailand---yer that was usually a 3-5 day exercise, and no guarantee you would get it--& the cost , we used to take trains or buses most of the time down to Malaysia etc,  as cheap Air Asia flights weren't around, sometimes they got a bit funny and only gave you 6 a month visa. 

 

Sorry if my first reply was a little impolite

[Max69xl]

On 8/14/2020 at 10:22 AM, villageidiotY2K said:

just wondering if ur like 80 yrs old, u still gotta drag your gimpy ass with a stick or a wheel chair to extend and reportt!? oh dear god jesus, its even hard to climb those steps with my gimpy legs and what a nuissance to those around me. at this age, i cant even hear, comprehend what the officer is saying behind those desks.

whatelse, its even hard for me to get my big ass outter my bed with my shredded bones and muscles. gabogabogabogabogabogabo

 

If you are handicapped someone else can do the 1 year extension for you. It even says so at the bottom of form TM7 (the latest revision). Someone else can also do the 90 days report. But I don't know if someone else can get the bank letter from the bank used for the 1 year extension (when using the money in the bank method) or bank statements. Haven't heard anything about that. Maybe it works if talking to customer service. 

 

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

What can I say possum--then your using the wrong agent,

 

I think I over reacted a little possum, because those who have lived here for a while (for me its only about 21 years)  have seen nothing but improvements in the 90 day and Visa in general. You use to have to leave the country for your 90 days...how would your old fella like that?

 

The computer thing is up and running in most places and that's what the agents use when they do the 90 day for you. When all the kinks are out of it--You really cant complain about doing a computer log in just 3 times a year.

 

For the general visa--(1 year) --you used to have to get it from a Thai embassy Outside of Thailand---yer that was usually a 3-5 day exercise, and no guarantee you would get it--& the cost , we used to take trains or buses most of the time down to Malaysia etc,  as cheap Air Asia flights weren't around, sometimes they got a bit funny and only gave you 6 a month visa. 

 

Sorry if my first reply was a little impolite

I stopped using that agent 2 years ago. I don't agree with you about improvements which you mention. I was glad to do a 200 k run to the border every 90 days when I first came here, I wish it was the same today. I also don't like the idea of reporting every 90 days, why should I report to anyone, I'm not a criminal.

No problem about being impolite, I'm always happy to hear from people with your experience in Thailand. I have to admit I am a bit of a rebel, but I will never change.

[Max69xl]

9 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

What can I say possum--then your using the wrong agent,

 

I think I over reacted a little possum, because those who have lived here for a while (for me its only about 21 years)  have seen nothing but improvements in the 90 day and Visa in general. You use to have to leave the country for your 90 days...how would your old fella like that?

 

The computer thing is up and running in most places and that's what the agents use when they do the 90 day for you. When all the kinks are out of it--You really cant complain about doing a computer log in just 3 times a year.

 

For the general visa--(1 year) --you used to have to get it from a Thai embassy Outside of Thailand---yer that was usually a 3-5 day exercise, and no guarantee you would get it--& the cost , we used to take trains or buses most of the time down to Malaysia etc,  as cheap Air Asia flights weren't around, sometimes they got a bit funny and only gave you 6 a month visa. 

 

Sorry if my first reply was a little impolite

"The computer thing is up and running in most places and that's what the agents use when they do the 90 day for you."

Agents I've heard of uses a courier (a guy on a motorbike) to deliver the passports for the 90 days report.

"You really cant complain about doing a computer log in just 3 times a year."

What about the 4:th report? Most immigration offices don't reset the date when doing the 1 year extension. Mine doesn't. 

 

 

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I stopped using that agent 2 years ago. I don't agree with you about improvements which you mention. I was glad to do a 200 k run to the border every 90 days when I first came here, I wish it was the same today. I also don't like the idea of reporting every 90 days, why should I report to anyone, I'm not a criminal.

No problem about being impolite, I'm always happy to hear from people with your experience in Thailand. I have to admit I am a bit of a rebel, but I will never change.

You think a 90 days report is nonsense, but doing border runs every 90 days wasn't? Where's the logic in that? I did my 90 days report yesterday. In and out in a few minutes incl waiting for my number (only 2 guys before me). No need to be paranoid about the reason to do the report. It will only make your blood pressure go sky high. Sometime (when really lazy) I do it online using the website, the app sucks imo. 

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You think a 90 days report is nonsense, but doing border runs every 90 days wasn't? Where's the logic in that? I did my 90 days report yesterday. In and out in a few minutes incl waiting for my number (only 2 guys before me). No need to be paranoid about the reason to do the report. It will only make your blood pressure go sky high. Sometime (when really lazy) I do it online using the website, the app sucks imo. 

I was happy to do the border run in either the car or motorbike, it was a nice scenic ride down to Maesot. Why did you do a 90 day report, there is an amnesty, although you are advised to go before the end of August?

[samtab]

21 hours ago, smutcakes said:

I did my interview in March and now its just a case of waiting. I followed up with the lawyer the other day and she said my file had been passed through the Committee and is working its way up. Hopefully should get it within next year.

For me if you qualify its a no brainer. I think generally for non working routes its probably harder than it sounds.

 

How much did you pay to improve your chances ?

Don't pretend that you didn't, this is what everybody is doing !

 

 

[LogicThai]

Either PR or Citizenship is worth having, if eligible. No question about that. But far more immediately valuable, and within easier reach,  would be access to the Thai Social Security scheme. Currently, foreigners with regular employment are eligible, up to the age of 60. After only one year of employment and coverage, even if not employed anymore, one can voluntarily remain within the scheme by paying a nominal monthly due. This provides access to basically free healthcare in the extensive and generally good-to-excellent public health sector of Thailand

 

If the Thai authorities were willing to solve many problems with one stroke, they could make Social Security accessible to long-term residents, not just foreign workers.  Like all Social Security schemes, it is a sort of super-insurance, that relies on a very large number of contributors. It would be valuable for the financial equilibrium of the scheme to have an intake of new contributors. Granted, many would be seniors with a higher likelihood of illness and need for medical care, which would justify them having to pay upfront into the fund. The Thai SS could request a one-time lump sum payment upfront, worth several years of monthly contributions, and then charge regular membership.

 

I am not sure of the numbers, but understand that the monthly voluntary contribution is about 500 bahts. If so, that’s 6,000 bahts a year. If -at most- they charged a lump sum of 180,000 bahts to join the scheme, that would represent 30 years of contribution, I.e. an equivalent contribution to those who joined the scheme at its beginning in 1990 (not many people did at the time, it took years). 

 

It would be a real win-win, removing the need for long-term expats to insure privately, which is problematic in later years, and it would potentially remove at least some of the need to justify having a large amount frozen in a bank account for visa renewal. On the Thai side of things, it would provide the Thai Social Security with a substantial boost of contributions and a large cohort of additional regular contributors.

 

As a side note, one should keep in mind that there are European countries with a bilateral social security agreement with Thailand either signed or under negotiation. Such an agreement provides access for nationals of either country to the social security of the other country. There are conditions and limitations, obviously, and every agreement is different, but the benefit can be huge. Well worth looking it up.

[thedemon]

19 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Ive heard that too, is it actually feasible ?

 

would go for citizenship but not PR.. Assuming I would have to change my current extension to be based on marriage rather than work.

 

You can apply on a work based extension. Just being married to a Thai citizen is enough to bypass the otherwise required 5 years of PR. As I recall you need to have been married for 3 years on application or 1 year if you have a child.

 

The financial requirements are lower for citizenship than PR. I think the minimum for a foreign man married to a Thai woman is 40k/month.

[thedemon]

1 hour ago, jomtienisgood said:

Do you speak fluently Thai and can you sing the National Anthem????

Willing to give up your native nationality????

 

If applying on the basis of being married to a Thai citizen the requirement for knowledge of Thai language is dropped and you will not be asked to sing the national anthem.

 

As BritManToo has said there is no requirement to give up your current nationality(s). If there was, few westerners would apply.

[rumak]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

The point is there are some very old and infirm expats who have been an advantage to Thailand, raised families and contributed to the Thai economy for many years, I am very surprised at you One More Farang as you are usually one of Thaivisas more sensible posters.

Its funny that as time (actually years) go by , scenarios that used to not concern us begin to pop

up like pimples on a girl in KFC.    The tunes we used to shout and play air guitar to ( "hope i die

before i get old " )  suddenly don't seem so accurate.   

As we yearn for one more reunion tour , we suddenly have to question just how long we can keep

going.   Reading the words "very old and infirm"  now start to hit a nerve in my aging brain. 

I still have a bit to go....... but a much smaller bit than 10 years ago.   

Kudos to the many guys here who have seen Thailand over a long stretch of time.  Maybe some are

the "bitter old farts"  some younguns like to belittle.   And maybe some are just decent guys who

lived a different lifestyle than the ordinary 9 to 5 er.  

If I were a rich man...... instead of trying to make another billion and going on CNBC ...... i would try

to buy a nice piece of land with housing and beautiful nurses to care for us old buffalos.   Make a deal with the bigwigs for a new type of visa .   The O and I  visa .    tdalawt chiwit !

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 8/14/2020 at 9:49 AM, possum1931 said:

and we all know the hassles for many people of trying to report online,

Actually, no, I don't. I read about a few people on here who have problems. Define "many" and I'll define "a few".

[thedemon]

19 minutes ago, samtab said:

 

How much did you pay to improve your chances ?

Don't pretend that you didn't, this is what everybody is doing !

 

 

 PR applicants are vetted by a committee made up of representatives from several ministries and is eventually signed off by the Minister of Interior. Immigration decide whether you meet the criteria for applying but that's all so there is little opportunity for graft.

[sanuk711]

29 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I was happy to do the border run in either the car or motorbike, it was a nice scenic ride down to Maesot. Why did you do a 90 day report, there is an amnesty, although you are advised to go before the end of August?

When I was quite new to living here, I didn't mind the --go out the country every 90 days, made take a week-10 days go to different parts of Vietnam/Cambodia/Lao  etc, but I much prefer the option now, as I don't travel so much.

[smutcakes]

28 minutes ago, samtab said:

 

How much did you pay to improve your chances ?

Don't pretend that you didn't, this is what everybody is doing !

 

 

It was all tied into the lawyers fees to do the work but i believe with the lawyers fees, some of which are possibly fees to assist the process i think the whole process including the final fee on recieving the PR will be around 300-350K.

 

I am sure some do it much cheaper but all in all it has been an easy process, a process which without lawyers i would simply never even contemplate attempting. 

[hanuman2543]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If married you apply for citizenship.

No need for PR.

Much more difficult than PR, her is a list of the required documents and an explanation of the process:

 

https://visaguide.world/tips/becoming-a-citizen-of-thailand/

 

P.S. Typical lame and unstructured advice from you like nearly always

Edited August 15, 2020 by hanuman2543

[sanuk711]

57 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

What about the 4:th report? Most immigration offices don't reset the date when doing the 1 year extension. Mine doesn't.

Most ??

Since the 90 day came in I have only dealt with 4 different I.O. They have all given me the next 90 date along with my renewed 1 year visa.

 

**I have never dealt with BKK

[rimmae2]

7 minutes ago, hanuman2543 said:

Much more difficult than PR, her is a list of the required documents and an explanation of the process:

 

https://visaguide.world/tips/becoming-a-citizen-of-thailand/

 

P.S. You have to hold PR for several years before you can apply so forget about what you proposed.

Typical lame and unstructured advice from you like nearly always

It is possible to apply for citizenship without PR, as many people do. Depends on the circumstances.