Trump defends accused Kenosha gunman, saying his life was likely in danger

[Credo]

18 hours ago, DBath said:

You might consider that while there are things that need to be fixed regarding law enforcement those problems pale in comparison to violence being committed by blacks, who only make up 13% of the population, yet they commit 20% more murders and also more robberies than whites do. These are the most violent crimes and they want a pass with no consequences. Cops are put under the microscope and scrutinized by the media and those in the black community even when they justifiably kill a black criminal who may have had it coming. Then you have the white sympathizers piling on. The police can’t even effectively do their jobs anymore - not hard to see why they might lack motivation to do their jobs.

And you might want to consider that as long as there is no attempt to address the problem of system racism, the riots and damage will continue.   

 

[Mama Noodle]

15 minutes ago, Credo said:

And you might want to consider that as long as there is no attempt to address the problem of system racism, the riots and damage will continue.   

Sometimes when I read this kind of thing, I sit back and really try and workout a way in which this isn’t a threat, and how it really smacks of terrorism. It is by definition, terrorism. 
 

I honestly believe that this widespread leftwing position on political violence is what’s gonna be the tipping point in a democrat loss. 

[Chiphigh]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

And you might want to consider that as long as there is no attempt to address the problem of system racism, the riots and damage will continue.   

 

Please give clear evidence and examples of what "system racism" is please. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Chiphigh

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Chiphigh said:

So you can't back up the claims stated in the post, other than innuendo. Got it 

 

The southern poverty "law" center is not a credible place to be referred to, unless you think extreme left wing bias is viable. 

 

You seem to have conveniently ignored that of the two links I posted, it was the Chicago Sun-Times, a major and well-respected regional newspaper, that was the main source for the interaction between Rittenhouse and his white supremacist militia companion.

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center article was mainly just background on the white supremacist militia guy himself. But nonetheless, the SPLC is credible enough to be an acceptable news source for posting on this forum and elsewhere.

 

Neither of which are innuendo in the slightest.

 

And then, of course, there was this - birds of a feather:

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[DBath]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

And you might want to consider that as long as there is no attempt to address the problem of system racism, the riots and damage will continue.   

 

I have considered it and the first sentence of my post implies as much. That said, this is the last response I’m going to give for this “dead horse” topic. It’s been beat to death and there isn’t anymore to be said here that hasn’t already been said. Seriously, opinions on neither side have been changed and quite frankly I’d like to know what value the Admins think is being generated by keeping this topic alive - beyond the escalation of back and forth hatred being spewed. 

[DBath]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You seem to have conveniently ignored that of the two links I posted, it was the Chicago Sun-Times, a major and well-respected regional newspaper, that was the main source for the interaction between Rittenhouse and his white supremacist militia companion.

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center article was mainly just background on the white supremacist militia guy himself. But nonetheless, the SPLC is credible enough to be an acceptable news source for posting on this forum and elsewhere.

 

Neither of which are innuendo in the slightest.

 

And then, of course, there was this - birds of a feather:

 

 

The Sun-Times is a totally anti-Trump rag, I know as I’m from Chicago and I’m very familiar with it. In fact, I still read it, so I can know what our enemies are thinking and spewing. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, MajarTheLion said:

"While Balch said Rittenhouse “had no connection” to the loosely organized group, he noted that as many as 32 boogaloo adherents were in Kenosha that day."

 

I never said or claimed anything about Rittenhouse being connected to or a member of the Boogaloo group. I don't know he is. I don't know he isn't.

 

All I said was, on the issue of his personal views whatever those may be, he happened to be hanging out with armed white supremacist militia members prior to shooting three protesters -- with a rifle he wasn't legally allowed to have, while violating curfew 20+ miles away from his home.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

Sometimes when I read this kind of thing, I sit back and really try and workout a way in which this isn’t a threat, and how it really smacks of terrorism. It is by definition, terrorism. 
 

I honestly believe that this widespread leftwing position on political violence is what’s gonna be the tipping point in a democrat loss. 

Which is why trump refuses to do anything about it. He inflames it.

[RoadWarrior371]

1 hour ago, Chiphigh said:

Please give clear evidence and examples of what "system racism" is please. 

This is a buzzword generated every election cycle, as a simple way to explain the different outcomes of one class of people vs. another.  For example, on CNN, they used the high dropout rate in Baltimore schools as an example of systemic racism.  In my experience, if a teenager wants to drop out, there is not much that can be done to change his mind.  However, racism did not make him drop out.  That is on him, his upbringing, his culture.

[simple1]

18 minutes ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

This is a buzzword generated every election cycle, as a simple way to explain the different outcomes of one class of people vs. another.  For example, on CNN, they used the high dropout rate in Baltimore schools as an example of systemic racism.  In my experience, if a teenager wants to drop out, there is not much that can be done to change his mind.  However, racism did not make him drop out.  That is on him, his upbringing, his culture.

In the instance you mention what did the teenager give as causes? if you were in his shoes would you empathise with his reasoning? Systemic racism meaning - there are others...

 

“Systemic racism”, or “institutional racism”, refers to how ideas of white superiority are captured in everyday thinking at a systems level: taking in the big picture of how society operates, rather than looking at one-on-one interactions.

These systems can include laws and regulations, but also unquestioned social systems. Systemic racism can stem from education, hiring practices or access.

 

An example of the above...

 

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews?cid=spmailing-25757313-WK Newsletter 04-03-2019 (1)-April 03, 2019

[Jingthing]

54 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I never said or claimed anything about Rittenhouse being connected to or a member of the Boogaloo group. I don't know he is. I don't know he isn't.

 

All I said was, on the issue of his personal views whatever those may be, he happened to be hanging out with armed white supremacist militia members prior to shooting three protesters -- with a rifle he wasn't legally allowed to have, while violating curfew 20+ miles away from his home.

 

Yeah.

 

Anyone that voluntarily hangs out all day on the streets with such vile members of violent racist far right extremist hate groups such as Boogaloo may not be a member but is at the very least Boogaloo adjacent.

 

I'll give an example from the left. Antifa. While I agree with Antifa that the USA is sinking into fascism under our current white supremacist president, I don't agree with their violent tactics. 

 

So if I randomly met an Antifa member I would be open to a conversation but there is no way in hell I would walk the streets with a group of them all day in the course of their activities. A person that does may as well be one of them.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Jingthing

[Chiphigh]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Southern Poverty Law Centre has made mistakes, but overall, they are reputable.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#Charity_ratings

 

A wiki reference is not the standard for unbiased factual references. 

 

The SPLC is a leftist political advocacy organization. Zero objective reality. 

 

 

[Chiphigh]

39 minutes ago, simple1 said:

In the instance you mention what did the teenager give as causes? if you were in his shoes would you empathise with his reasoning? Systemic racism meaning - there are others...

 

“Systemic racism”, or “institutional racism”, refers to how ideas of white superiority are captured in everyday thinking at a systems level: taking in the big picture of how society operates, rather than looking at one-on-one interactions.

These systems can include laws and regulations, but also unquestioned social systems. Systemic racism can stem from education, hiring practices or access.

 

An example of the above...

 

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews?cid=spmailing-25757313-WK Newsletter 04-03-2019 (1)-April 03, 2019

There is no logical or realistic explanation of this ridiculous systemic racism theory being peddled solely from the left. 

Some people of every race creed and color have biases for many different reasons. 

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You seem to have conveniently ignored that of the two links I posted, it was the Chicago Sun-Times, a major and well-respected regional newspaper, that was the main source for the interaction between Rittenhouse and his white supremacist militia companion.

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center article was mainly just background on the white supremacist militia guy himself. But nonetheless, the SPLC is credible enough to be an acceptable news source for posting on this forum and elsewhere.

 

Neither of which are innuendo in the slightest.

 

And then, of course, there was this - birds of a feather:

 

 

Again, zero evidence of any sort of bias this young man has. He clearly was being violently attacked, with clear deadly intent, by convicted felons. 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Chiphigh said:

A wiki reference is not the standard for unbiased factual references. 

 

The SPLC is a leftist political advocacy organization. Zero objective reality. 

 

 

I would agree they a bias but I wouldn't characterize their information as worthless either.

[Chiphigh]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I would agree they a bias but I wouldn't characterize their information as worthless either.

I did not say they were worthless. I said they are biased. More so in the facts they refuse to reference on their site. A very poor example of objectivity based on all the facts. 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

Sometimes when I read this kind of thing, I sit back and really try and workout a way in which this isn’t a threat, and how it really smacks of terrorism. It is by definition, terrorism. 
 

I honestly believe that this widespread leftwing position on political violence is what’s gonna be the tipping point in a democrat loss. 

 

As Mom used to say, you hear what you want to hear. In this case, you're certainly trying to frame the observation and assessment as a "threat", and swiftly attempt to tie it with "terrorism". Vile.

[spidermike007]

On 9/6/2020 at 6:37 AM, MajarTheLion said:

No one wants four more years of Antifa and BLM rioting, looting and pillaging. Democrats own this 100%. Virtually all Democrat-led towns. A large majority Democrat-led states. Democrats refusing to reign in the violence and refusing help from the feds.

Exactly. And a case can easily be made that Trump is causing alot of the mayhem, with his total lack of empathy, his hatred and divisiveness, and his inability to act as a true leader would, in times of crisis. This is all happening on his watch, so it is a bit disingenuous of him to claim it would be worse with Biden in charge. 

 

Following Floyd’s death, protests took place in at least 450 cities. As NBC News fact checked Wednesday night, those include large demonstrations in Miami, whose mayor is a registered Republican, and smaller ones in smaller cities and towns in regions supportive of Trump.

 

Your antifa garbage has been disproven already. And some republican cities have seen major unrest. So, the hyperbolic nonsense you are trotting out is just that. 

 

According to multiple reports, including a Washington Post fact check, there were no signs that that antifa was behind violence at these protests. As of earlier this month, federal prosecutors had not been able to link dozens of people arrested in protests in Portland, Ore., to antifa. In fact, in at least one instance where a police officer was killed during a protest, the suspect was actually aligned with a far-right extremist group. In Oakland, Air Force Staff Sgt. Steven Carrillo — a member of the “boogaloo,” an online extremist group with violent views — is accused of killing a federal officer. Authorities have said he was using nearby peaceful protests as cover.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/blog/2020-08-27-rnc-updates-n1238267/ncrd1238583#blogHeader

[Morch]

2 hours ago, DBath said:

The Sun-Times is a totally anti-Trump rag, I know as I’m from Chicago and I’m very familiar with it. In fact, I still read it, so I can know what our enemies are thinking and spewing. 

 

Moving on from "anti-Trump" to "our enemies". And some object to "cult" references. Go figure.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

Southern Poverty Law Centre has made mistakes, but overall, they are reputable.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#Charity_ratings

 

 

Also this:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/southern-poverty-law-center/

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Chiphigh said:

I did not say they were worthless. I said they are biased. More so in the facts they refuse to reference on their site. A very poor example of objectivity based on all the facts. 

I seriously doubt in the US cultural context they wouldn't be known for a 'left' leaning bias. However, on the factual reporting front - thanks to Morch - a link to an organisation, who are respected for their analysis...

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/southern-poverty-law-center/

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Chiphigh said:

A wiki reference is not the standard for unbiased factual references. 

 

The SPLC is a leftist political advocacy organization. Zero objective reality. 

 

 

The link provides references to cross check, as do nearly all Wiki content. Yes, SPLC is well known for 'left' leaning, does make the actual work they do as erroneous, that's a nonsensical argument from the trump world. In parallel trump does promote truly nonsensical conspiracy theories - weird isn't it...

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Chiphigh said:

this ridiculous systemic racism theory being peddled solely from the left. 

No mystery; it isn't being raised by the trump administration as an issue to address.

 

The belief that widespread racism is no longer a problem in American society has become one of the core convictions uniting the modern Republican coalition, especially in the Donald Trump era, polls have found.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/politics/2020-election-racism-partisan-view/index.html

[watthong]

15 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

All your points are irrelevant to the charge of murder. His illegal possession of a weapon, his crossing state lines, who started the entire episode, all are irrelevant. They are separate issues and the judge will instruct the jury to that effect.

 

Why? Because those three people he shot, along with many others, were physically attacking him, smashing him in the head with a skateboard, aggressively attempting to take away his rifle, aiming a handgun at him with obvious intent to shoot him (in his mind at least, meaning he lacked mens rea for murder).

 

In other words, they were not effecting a citizen arrest to take him into custody, they were attempting to do him grave bodily harm, or kill him. Compare that to police, who would have ordered him to drop his weapon, prone out, and be taken into custody. I doubt any law enforcement officer would have hit him with a ten-pound skateboard.

 

Whatever crimes he may have committed up to that point did not disallow him the right to protect his life, especially in Wisconsin, where the Castle Doctrine is law: any person may employ lethal force to defend their self or another if they are in reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. Kyle Rittenhouse had more than reasonable fear. 

 

An interesting aside is the person with the handgun threw up his hands in surrender, then when the Kyle's rifle jammed, he "unsurrended" and pointed his handgun back at Kyle, which is when Kyle shot him. Though civil unrest is not covered by the Geneva Convention, false surrender in war is a crime punishable by death.

 

Crossing state line with a mass killing machine.
Claiming to protect properties that a don't belong to you - b not in your hometown -and c nobody hired you for the job.
Embedding yourself with a lethal weapon into an agitated crowd of people (regardless of their motive)
is not "helping people in harm's way." 

Lying about "self-defense" when you have no business of being there.
Killing people is NOT self-defense.

 

You're still a kid obviously (ie underaged) and are still uneducated above the above points. Unfortunately an AR-15 was in your possession and you used it to play out your cop-and-protester violent fantasies. There are nutcases out there with pure hogwash  such as the above quote to protect you. Even millions of them pleading for your "self-defense" won't make it happen. Your parents are held accountable, so are the Kenosha police force who were in cahoots with your (white brown black and otherwise) gang of militia.

 

[MajarTheLion]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Exactly. And a case can easily be made that Trump is causing alot of the mayhem, with his total lack of empathy, his hatred and divisiveness, and his inability to act as a true leader would, in times of crisis. This is all happening on his watch, so it is a bit disingenuous of him to claim it would be worse with Biden in charge. 

 

Following Floyd’s death, protests took place in at least 450 cities. As NBC News fact checked Wednesday night, those include large demonstrations in Miami, whose mayor is a registered Republican, and smaller ones in smaller cities and towns in regions supportive of Trump.

 

Your antifa garbage has been disproven already. And some republican cities have seen major unrest. So, the hyperbolic nonsense you are trotting out is just that. 

 

According to multiple reports, including a Washington Post fact check, there were no signs that that antifa was behind violence at these protests. As of earlier this month, federal prosecutors had not been able to link dozens of people arrested in protests in Portland, Ore., to antifa. In fact, in at least one instance where a police officer was killed during a protest, the suspect was actually aligned with a far-right extremist group. In Oakland, Air Force Staff Sgt. Steven Carrillo — a member of the “boogaloo,” an online extremist group with violent views — is accused of killing a federal officer. Authorities have said he was using nearby peaceful protests as cover.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/blog/2020-08-27-rnc-updates-n1238267/ncrd1238583#blogHeader

I'm sorry, I don't follow the logic you are presenting. You present the George Floyd death, which I believe was murder. It happened in a city run by Democrats in a  state run by Democrats. The officer(s) in question are responsible for their actions. After that, the blame goes to those who manage him- all of whom are Democrats. In fact, the vast majority of the problems we see, whether police shootings or riots, are occurring in areas led by Democrats. On that basis, I find the logic of pointing out a single Republican mayor for criticism in the midst of this sea of madness illogical. By the same token, attempting to blame the rioting, which of course is HATE, on Donald Trump when it is his opponents engaging in the majority of hate and violence does not make logical sense. I base this on simple logic. I blame perpetrators for their actions. Who do you blame?

 

Now, as far as using a Washington Post fact check, it is also illogical. They are essentially telling Americans to ignore their lying eyes and believe that it's right wingers causing violence. A few anecdotes do not overcome a plethora of ongoing events that show exponentially more acts of hatred, violence, looting and arson by hate and racist groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter.

[MajarTheLion]

4 hours ago, watthong said:

 

Crossing state line with a mass killing machine.
Claiming to protect properties that a don't belong to you - b not in your hometown -and c nobody hired you for the job.
Embedding yourself with a lethal weapon into an agitated crowd of people (regardless of their motive)
is not "helping people in harm's way." 

Lying about "self-defense" when you have no business of being there.
Killing people is NOT self-defense.

 

You're still a kid obviously (ie underaged) and are still uneducated above the above points. Unfortunately an AR-15 was in your possession and you used it to play out your cop-and-protester violent fantasies. There are nutcases out there with pure hogwash  such as the above quote to protect you. Even millions of them pleading for your "self-defense" won't make it happen. Your parents are held accountable, so are the Kenosha police force who were in cahoots with your (white brown black and otherwise) gang of militia.

 

Rittenhouse's attorneys have released a statement on the days events, which includes a statement that the weapon in question was already in Wisconsin and thus did not cross state lines. Do you have any evidence that indicates this is not true?

 

"The business owner needed help to protect what he had left of his life’s work, including two nearby mechanic’s shops. Kyle and a friend armed themselves with rifles due to the deadly violence gripping Kenosha and many other American cities, and headed to the business premises. The weapons were in Wisconsin and never crossed state lines."

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kyle-rittenhouses-lawyers-release-statement/

 

[MajarTheLion]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

No mystery; it isn't being raised by the trump administration as an issue to address.

 

The belief that widespread racism is no longer a problem in American society has become one of the core convictions uniting the modern Republican coalition, especially in the Donald Trump era, polls have found.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/politics/2020-election-racism-partisan-view/index.html

Saying there is no systematic racism and saying racism is not a problem are two different claims.

[Chiphigh]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

No mystery; it isn't being raised by the trump administration as an issue to address.

 

The belief that widespread racism is no longer a problem in American society has become one of the core convictions uniting the modern Republican coalition, especially in the Donald Trump era, polls have found.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/politics/2020-election-racism-partisan-view/index.html

A complete fabrication, but then you do reference CNN. 

Typical leftist tactics, agree with the premise or you are a racist. 

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

The link provides references to cross check, as do nearly all Wiki content. Yes, SPLC is well known for 'left' leaning, does make the actual work they do as erroneous, that's a nonsensical argument from the trump world. In parallel trump does promote truly nonsensical conspiracy theories - weird isn't it...

The SPLC targets anyone who disagree with their ideology as racist, in other words, the same leftist trope as every other leftist organization and politician. 

 

People see through this and laugh at the virtue signaling blather. 

[polpott]

1 minute ago, Chiphigh said:

A complete fabrication, but then you do reference CNN. 

Typical leftist tactics, agree with the premise or you are a racist. 

The SPLC targets anyone who disagree with their ideology as racist, in other words, the same leftist trope as every other leftist organization and politician. 

 

People see through this and laugh at the virtue signaling blather. 

Nope only the extreme right Trump's base refuse to see it as it is and they're an ever dwindling minority.

[stevenl]

24 minutes ago, Chiphigh said:

A complete fabrication, but then you do reference CNN. 

Typical leftist tactics, agree with the premise or you are a racist. 

The SPLC targets anyone who disagree with their ideology as racist, in other words, the same leftist trope as every other leftist organization and politician. 

 

People see through this and laugh at the virtue signaling blather. 

If the claim 'widespread racism is no longer a problem in American society' is a complete fabrication as you claim, that means that it is a problem.

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts removed.