U.S. judges reject Trump plan to exclude many immigrants from representation

[webfact]

U.S. judges reject Trump plan to exclude many immigrants from representation

By Jonathan Stempel

 

FILE PHOTO: U.S. President Donald Trump talks with U.S. Border Patrol Chief Rodney Scott as he tours a section of the U.S.-Mexico border wall in San Luis, Arizona, U.S., June 23, 2020. REUTERS/Carlos Barria

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A panel of judges on Thursday declared unlawful a directive from President Donald Trump to exclude people who are in the United States illegally from representation when apportioning congressional seats.

 

The decision by a three-judge panel, which could be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, is a victory for the 38 states, cities and counties, plus several immigrants rights nonprofits, that sued over the July 21 directive.

 

The mostly Democratic-leaning plaintiffs, led by New York state, accused the Republican president of having a "xenophobic" purpose in pushing an unconstitutional directive that reflected "discriminatory animus" toward Hispanics and other immigrant communities.

 

They said the directive could leave several million people uncounted and shift a few House of Representatives seats, with California, Texas and New Jersey most likely to suffer losses.

 

In its 86-page decision, the panel said Trump exceeded his statutory authority in ordering the directive.

 

It said federal law required the use of one set of numbers to count people for census and apportionment purposes, and that so long as they resided in the United States, "illegal aliens qualify as 'persons in' a 'state'" who should be counted.

 

"The President must act in accordance with, and within the boundaries of, the authority that Congress has granted," the panel said. "We conclude that the President did not do so."

 

The White House and the Department of Commerce, which oversees the census, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

 

Thursday's decision is a fresh census-related legal setback for Trump, who has made curbing immigration a focus of his presidency and reelection campaign.

 

His directive came one year after the Supreme Court blocked his attempt to add a citizenship question to the census.

 

"President Trump's repeated attempts to hinder, impair, and prejudice an accurate census and the subsequent apportionment have failed once again," New York Attorney General Letitia James said in a statement.

 

In defending the directive, government lawyers said Trump had broad discretion to decide who to count, and that any harm was speculative.

 

The plaintiffs countered that the directive would cause irreparable harm by dissuading immigrant households from census participation and reducing political power.

 

Census data is also used to allocate billions of dollars of federal funds.

 

"The law is clear - every person counts in the census," said American Civil Liberties Union lawyer Dale Ho, who represented the nonprofits.

 

The panel consisted of Circuit Judges Richard Wesley and Peter Hall, both appointed to the bench by Republican President George W. Bush, and District Judge Jesse Furman, an appointee of Democratic President Barack Obama.

 

(Reporting by Jonathan Stempel in New York; Additional reporting by Ted Hesson in Washington, D.C.; Editing by Sandra Maler, Leslie Adler and Tom Brown)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-09-11

 

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[Tug]

Trump doesent have the talent to operate within the constitution,there was plenty of folks willing to help him but they have learned (some the hard way) that it’s not possible he will just wreck your life if you tryed to school him on the ways to do it.to bad in a way he had everything going for him both houses a strong economy but he squandered it 

[Mama Noodle]

Awesome, so states can continue to keep their illegal sanctuary city status, count their illegal immigrant population on the census, and inflate their states representation in Congress while inching up their electoral college points with those same non-Americans. 
 

Awesome. 
 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

Awesome, so states can continue to keep their illegal sanctuary city status, count their illegal immigrant population on the census, and inflate their states representation in Congress while inching up their electoral college points with those same non-Americans. 
 

Awesome. 
 

 

Alternatively, a race baiting President doesn’t get to override the Constitution.

 

Please read the Constitution before responding.

[stevenl]

Was there a tweeter storm as reaction?

[Credo]

1 hour ago, Mama Noodle said:

Awesome, so states can continue to keep their illegal sanctuary city status, count their illegal immigrant population on the census, and inflate their states representation in Congress while inching up their electoral college points with those same non-Americans. 
 

Awesome. 
 

 

What a load of nonsense.  The US Census has always been based on what is considered to be your usual place of residence.   It has nothing to do with citizenship.   It has to do with the number of people residing in the US.

 

[simon43]

A panel of judges on Thursday declared unlawful a directive from President Donald Trump to exclude people who are in the United States illegally from representation when apportioning congressional seats.

 

I've almost zero interest in US politics.  But the idea of giving illegal immigrants representation when apportioning congressional seats seems totally barmy to me..... 

[JusticeGB]

Why should illegal aliens have the right to vote. I lost my right to vote in the UK because I have been absent for 15 years but I still pay taxes on my UK derived income. I can't vote in Thailand even though I have lived here legally for over 20 years!

Edited September 11, 2020 by JusticeGB
Typo

[sometimewoodworker]

10 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

Why should illegal aliens have the right to vote. I lost my right to vote in the UK because I have been absent for 15 years but I still pay taxes on my UK derived income. I can't vote in Thailand even though I have lived here legally for over 20 years!

Nothing in the report is about illegal aliens voting! It’s about trying to exclude them from being counted.

[forehandplus]

5 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Trump could do exactly what he did with the mail in vote fiasco. Turn the narrative on its head.

 

 Trump invites every conservative worldwide to cross the southern border, they are welcome to the USA. Cameras will catch images of the colossal caravan of right wingers storming the border, shocking stuff. The 100 million new Americans will vote for Trump, showing no paperwork or ID, ensuring he and his descendants will rule the US for many generations. Is that good and fair? No? Aha gotcha!

Even in the unlikely case that such were to happen, these 100 million people would still be undocumented aliens. Therefore, they would not have the right to vote.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Nothing in the report is about illegal aliens voting! It’s about trying to exclude them from being counted.

Exactly.

 

I think the use of the word 'representation' was somewhat interesting!

 

The census count has a huge bearing in the US is the allocation of congressional seats and Federal funding, so a count of everyone is essential.

 

I must admit when I read the headline I thought w+t+f. Then after I read the full article I couldn't help wondering if the author was just being mischievous, provocative or just down right malicious, which surprised me from Reuters.

Edited September 11, 2020 by GinBoy2

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

I've almost zero interest in US politics.  But the idea of giving illegal immigrants representation when apportioning congressional seats seems totally barmy to me..... 

Perhaps you don’t understand the history of the US at the time the Constitution was written.

 

You certainly don’t understand there is no such thing as an ‘illegal immigrant’.

 

 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

I've almost zero interest in US politics.  But the idea of giving illegal immigrants representation when apportioning congressional seats seems totally barmy to me..... 

Someone will correct me if I'm incorrect, but my interpretation is as the census count, which includes 'illegals', influences funding available from federal government, the funding must have political oversight i.e. representation.

[Scot123]

8 hours ago, Tug said:

Trump doesent have the talent to operate within the constitution,there was plenty of folks willing to help him but they have learned (some the hard way) that it’s not possible he will just wreck your life if you tryed to school him on the ways to do it.to bad in a way he had everything going for him both houses a strong economy but he squandered it 

Unbelievable, twisted grasp on reality. Trump built up The USA economy to all new highs, surpassing the new norms Obama and the Dems crowed about, employment figures of all time highs, bringing back manufacturing and jobs for blacks and minorities to all time highs, all of which Obama and the Dems said was impossible and ridiculed Trump for promising to do it. Then Chinese C-19 hits the country/The World and even though he is breaking again all predictions Dems warped mindset blames him. Anyway this Judge should be fired immediately for breaking the law. Illegal = criminal and he thinks that is ok for them to vote!!! Madness! Try doing it in Thailand, start protesting in the streets demanding to vote and see what happens. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Scot123

[forehandplus]

4 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Unbelievable, twisted grasp on reality. Trump built up The USA economy to all new highs, surpassing the new norms Obama and the Dems crowed about, employment figures of all time highs, bringing back manufacturing and jobs for blacks and minorities to all time highs, all of which Obama and the Dems said was impossible and ridiculed Trump for promising to do it. Then Chinese C-19 hits the country/The World and even though he is breaking again all predictions Dems warped mindset blames him. Anyway this Judge should be fired immediately for breaking the law. Illegal = criminal and he thinks that is ok for them to vote!!! Madness! Try doing it in Thailand, start protesting in the streets demanding to vote and see what happens. 

If, in fact, the trendlines of the economy showed a sharp break from the economic performance when Obama was President you would have a better point.  But they don't.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

I've almost zero interest in US politics.  But the idea of giving illegal immigrants representation when apportioning congressional seats seems totally barmy to me..... 

It doesn't mean they get to vote, but it means they are counted. And based on those counts representation is awarded, states with many inhabitants get more representation (not in the senate).

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Trump could do exactly what he did with the mail in vote fiasco. Turn the narrative on its head.

 

 Trump invites every conservative worldwide to cross the southern border, they are welcome to the USA. Cameras will catch images of the colossal caravan of right wingers storming the border, shocking stuff. The 100 million new Americans will vote for Trump, showing no paperwork or ID, ensuring he and his descendants will rule the US for many generations. Is that good and fair? No? Aha gotcha!

 

36 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Unbelievable, twisted grasp on reality. Trump built up The USA economy to all new highs, surpassing the new norms Obama and the Dems crowed about, employment figures of all time highs, bringing back manufacturing and jobs for blacks and minorities to all time highs, all of which Obama and the Dems said was impossible and ridiculed Trump for promising to do it. Then Chinese C-19 hits the country/The World and even though he is breaking again all predictions Dems warped mindset blames him. Anyway this Judge should be fired immediately for breaking the law. Illegal = criminal and he thinks that is ok for them to vote!!! Madness! Try doing it in Thailand, start protesting in the streets demanding to vote and see what happens. 

This is not about the right to vote, only about the right to be counted.

[forehandplus]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

This is not about the right to vote, only about the right to be counted.

Actually, it's stronger than that. It's about the obligation of the government to count them.

[Isaan sailor]

Give it to the Supremes.  Then we’ll see.

[stevenl]

29 minutes ago, forehandplus said:

Actually, it's stronger than that. It's about the obligation of the government to count them.

Yes, true. I was mainly correcting the 'why are they allowing illegals to vote' posts.

[jesimps]

I thought UK judges were the world's worst. Seems like those in the US are giving them a run for their money. How can illegals be counted in a lawful process? Makes a mockery of the word illegal.

Edited September 11, 2020 by jesimps

[forehandplus]

Just now, jesimps said:

I thought UK judges were the world's worst. Seems like those in the US are giving them a run for their money. How can illegals be counted? Makes a mockery of the word.

Possibly because these judges can read the U.S. Constitution. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What is remarkable is how UK judges can read the their nation's unwritten Constitution.

[wabothai]

3 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

Why should illegal aliens have the right to vote. I lost my right to vote in the UK because I have been absent for 15 years but I still pay taxes on my UK derived income. I can't vote in Thailand even though I have lived here legally for over 20 years!

Non americans cannot vote

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, jesimps said:

I thought UK judges were the world's worst. Seems like those in the US are giving them a run for their money. How can illegals be counted in a lawful process? Makes a mockery of the word illegal.

I think they should be counted. This counting means they are included in the number of inhabitants of a city/county/state. Albeit illegal, they are living there so should be counted.

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, jesimps said:

I thought UK judges were the world's worst. Seems like those in the US are giving them a run for their money. How can illegals be counted in a lawful process? Makes a mockery of the word illegal.

The mockery is on you.

 

There is no such thing as an ‘illegal’.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I think they should be counted. This counting means they are included in the number of inhabitants of a city/county/state. Albeit illegal, they are living there so should be counted.

At the time the Constitution was written the nation was populated by First Nations people, Americans who had been born in America into recent immigrant families and new immigrants.

 

The Constitution therefore dictates a census that was, for the reasons you identify, only interested in counting ‘people’ and still is only for interested in counting people. 

[earlinclaifornia]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

I've almost zero interest in US politics.  But the idea of giving illegal immigrants representation when apportioning congressional seats seems totally barmy to me..... 

Admitting you know nothing about what the census is used for in America lends itself to a good read. https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/about/why.html

[earlinclaifornia]

3 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

Why should illegal aliens have the right to vote. I lost my right to vote in the UK because I have been absent for 15 years but I still pay taxes on my UK derived income. I can't vote in Thailand even though I have lived here legally for over 20 years!

Misinformed facts such as you are posting lends me to help clarification of the truth. https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote

[earlinclaifornia]

2 hours ago, Scot123 said:

Unbelievable, twisted grasp on reality. Trump built up The USA economy to all new highs, surpassing the new norms Obama and the Dems crowed about, employment figures of all time highs, bringing back manufacturing and jobs for blacks and minorities to all time highs, all of which Obama and the Dems said was impossible and ridiculed Trump for promising to do it. Then Chinese C-19 hits the country/The World and even though he is breaking again all predictions Dems warped mindset blames him. Anyway this Judge should be fired immediately for breaking the law. Illegal = criminal and he thinks that is ok for them to vote!!! Madness! Try doing it in Thailand, start protesting in the streets demanding to vote and see what happens. 

Wrong I so many ways. But in fact about the article: 

Who Can Vote?

You can vote in U.S. elections if you:

• Are a U.S. citizen https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote

[olfu]

Its look kinda strange--first millions cross the border illegally then suddenly they represented as citizens.