American expat charged with defamation after leaving multiple negative reviews online

[oldhippy]

9 hours ago, LiamB80 said:

Story landed in the New York Times today. This hotel might as well close down, who would ever want to stay there now? Word will get around about this place. 

Simple solution: a change of the name..... a very common business practice when management messes up.

[KKr]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Maybe, but Google and TripAdvisor don't do that. They only remove the reviews that breach their terms of service.

 

This is clearly seen from the fact that one of the negative reviews from the guy in question is still there on the TripAdvisor website. Only the one talking about "modern slavery" was removed. (Apparently some others that were evidently not based on personal experience were also removed).

 

Also, as others have mentioned, almost every hotel has at least some 1-star reviews. How could that be if the review sites were deleting them all?

When choosing a hotel, I usually start reading the 1 star reviews, if they sound dreamt up and are only more or less substantiated, then I move to best reviews and look for those that have constructive criticism. Works for me.

[Tagged]

54 minutes ago, KKr said:

The person in question had apparently been drinking before entering the restaurant, and failed to comply with the restaurant rules.
 it.

In my humble opinion, this is a fine example of Western Superiority 

And another one in the shame box for all of us who are living here. 

 

Some still wondering why some thais do not like western people? For everyone who get published like this, more come along to hate the western attitude

Edited September 29, 2020 by Tagged

[dabhand]

2 hours ago, scoupeo said:

This resort is dead, and this is just what it deserves !

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/world/asia/thailand-koh-chang-defamation.html
https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/28/american-sued-arrested-bad-tripadvistor-review-thailand-resort/
https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/thailande-un-americain-poursuivi-pour-un-commentaire-negatif-sur-tripadvisor-26-09-2020-8392122.php
https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2020/09/27/american-wesley-barnes-arrested-defamation-campaign-against-ko-chang-hotel/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8781885/An-American-voices-fears-facing-two-years-prison-criticising-Thailand-hotel.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/26/american-faces-two-years-prison-posting-unflattering-tripadvisor/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/american-in-thailand-faces-possibility-of-jail-time-for-negative-resort-reviews/ar-BB19vTUJ
 

 

 

I read some of the comments to the NYT and DM articles. If you thought that there would be a huge ground swell of support for the American guy I would say you would be rather disappointed........

[Tagged]

5 minutes ago, dabhand said:

I read some of the comments to the NYT and DM articles. If you thought that there would be a huge ground swell of support for the American guy I would say you would be rather disappointed........

What does the thais say? 

[KKr]

to put the issue of Libel in perspective:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/can-you-get-sued-over-a-negative-yelp-review.html

https://www.shouselaw.com/nv/defense/nrs/200-510-criminal-libel/
https://www.shouselaw.com/nv/personal-injury/harm-to-reputation/defamation/
 

Examples of publication include (without limitation):

• Posting a false statement on your Facebook or Instagram page;

 

To prove defamation in Nevada, you must establish four elements:

1. That the defendant made false statements of “fact” about you;
2. That the defendant made an unprivileged publication of the statement(s) to a third party;
3. That the defendant acted negligently, recklessly or intentionally; and
4. That as a result of the statements, your reputation was damaged.

Maximum in Vegas: 364 days and / or $ 2.000

So why is everybody so upset?
Is it because it is an American Citizen that is rightly being persecuted ?

Get a Life.

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by KKr

[rott]

10 hours ago, LiamB80 said:

Story landed in the New York Times today. This hotel might as well close down, who would ever want to stay there now? Word will get around about this place. 

I doubt that too many NYT readers have heard of Koh Chang or the hotel, or have considered staying there. Of those that have, I think that many would keep an open mind. 

 

By the time the tourism gates re-open most will have forgotten all about it. 

[rott]

27 minutes ago, KKr said:

to put the issue of Libel in perspective:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/can-you-get-sued-over-a-negative-yelp-review.html

https://www.shouselaw.com/nv/defense/nrs/200-510-criminal-libel/
https://www.shouselaw.com/nv/personal-injury/harm-to-reputation/defamation/
 

Examples of publication include (without limitation):

• Posting a false statement on your Facebook or Instagram page;

 

To prove defamation in Nevada, you must establish four elements:

1. That the defendant made false statements of “fact” about you;
2. That the defendant made an unprivileged publication of the statement(s) to a third party;
3. That the defendant acted negligently, recklessly or intentionally; and
4. That as a result of the statements, your reputation was damaged.

Maximum in Vegas: 364 days and / or $ 2.000

So why is everybody so upset?
Is it because it is an American Citizen that is rightly being persecuted ?

Get a Life.

 

In Thailand the statements don't need to be false, they only have to "impair the reputation" of the other party. 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by rott

[ChipButty]

20 minutes ago, rott said:

I doubt that too many NYT readers have heard of Koh Chang or the hotel, or have considered staying there. Of those that have, I think that many would keep an open mind. 

 

By the time the tourism gates re-open most will have forgotten all about it. 

Today's news is tomorrows history

[ChipButty]

38 minutes ago, dabhand said:

I read some of the comments to the NYT and DM articles. If you thought that there would be a huge ground swell of support for the American guy I would say you would be rather disappointed........

I read before on DM not much sympathy for the septic tank

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Completely disagree if the hotel can guarantee that your stay will be free from loudmouth obnoxious americans ( Ugly American)

"Ugly American" is a stereotype depicting American citizens as exhibiting loud, arrogant, demeaning, thoughtless, ignorant, and ethnocentric behavior mainly abroad, but also at home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_American_(pejorative)

 

I am sure that people will be going there in their droves to book an "Ugly American" Free vacation

 

Not all Americans come under the "Ugly American" group but at the same time there are many that do

 

Yes, certainly. The American should have demonstrated the same decorum and restraint as the British man who threw his wife off an eighth floor balcony.

[cjinchiangrai]

What was he doing in a 6000+ a night five star resort if he can't afford the drinks? I understand corkage but it us usually for special wines, not a bottle of spirits. Hint: the sommelier will happily waive the corkage if you give him a little of your '61 Margaux. Particularly if you back it up with some of the house products.

Out of curiosity, I looked the resort up. It is beautiful, I want to stay there. The review ratings are among the highest I have ever seen.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g580110-d594766-Reviews-Sea_View_Resort_Spa_Koh_Chang-Ko_Chang_Trat_Province.html

[aroiaroi]

1 hour ago, dabhand said:

I read some of the comments to the NYT and DM articles. If you thought that there would be a huge ground swell of support for the American guy I would say you would be rather disappointed........

You have misread the tone.
Most of the comments are along the lines of "thrown in jail for a 1 star review ? whoa.... I will never take another holiday in Thailand again!"

The damage goes in this order: Thailand tourism, the hotel, then the customer.

Ironically it was an expat at the hotel that pressed charges. Could it get any dumber ?
 

Edited September 29, 2020 by aroiaroi

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

Ironically it was an expat at the hotel that pressed charges. Could it get any dumber ?

It was the Thai owner.

[aroiaroi]

19 minutes ago, polpott said:

It was the Thai owner.

Initially that was reported but later claimed (by AMM) the charges were brought by one of the expat managers in one of the recent tweet comments.

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by aroiaroi

[mark131v]

51 minutes ago, polpott said:

It was the Thai owner.

 

Out of interest I have read the 1 and 2 star reviews on trip advisor and there is a common theme there and some of the hotel replies are overtly passive aggressive, some are downright insulting. Tells you a lot

 

Never really took too much notice when I have stayed there but then again I am used to poor service at most places and just expect it more so on the islands where there is a limited pot of staff...

[polpott]

1 minute ago, mark131v said:

Never really took too much notice when I have stayed there but then again I am used to poor service at most places and just expect it more so on the islands where there is a limited pot of staff...

The ugly American claimed that the staff were Cambodian and treated like slaves. I stayed in a resort on the other side of the island and found exactly the same.

[Flying Saucage]

6 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

Initially that was reported but later claimed (by AMM) the charges were brought by one of the expat managers in one of the recent tweet comments.
 

If so, the manager did as the owner told him. It is almost beyond imagination that a foreigner himself starts to deal with a Thai court in such a case without an order from the owner.

[aroiaroi]

2 minutes ago, Flying Saucage said:

If so, the manager did as the owner told him. It is almost beyond imagination that a foreigner himself starts to deal with a Thai court in such a case without an order from the owner.

Yes ultimately it would have had to come from the top via proxy. But both are culpable.

Edited September 29, 2020 by aroiaroi

[Eloquent pilgrim]

26 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

Yes ultimately it would have had to come from the top via proxy. But both are culpable.

Your use of the word culpable, suggests that they are guilty, or responsible, for some wrongdoing. What exactly might that be ?

[oldhippy]

5 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Your use of the word culpable, suggests that they are guilty, or responsible, for some wrongdoing. What exactly might that be ?

? Using a draconian criminal law in a civil dispute ?

? Harming one's own business and the jobs of employees by sheer incompetence ?

[Fat is a type of crazy]

This case is strange. No one comes out looking good.

The guest seems to have had bad manners and was a tad vindictive but surely had the right to post as he saw things.  The slavery term is a bit over the top but he might have seen it that way. The issue is did he go to these lengths because he was embarrassed over the corkage issue or just because this was his opinion. Hard to prove either way.

Stayed there a number of times. Mention this because it is hard to believe he couldn't find some nice things to say.

I don't tend to give hotels less than 3 stars,  especially over staff issues, as it is hard to run a business like this and they may be just having a bad day. Just don't stay there in future.

 

The hotel had a right to attempt to get the posts removed . Maybe they had a right to take it further when he didn't cooperate. You would hope they didn't intend for such a draconian outcome.

 

Thailand laws come out looking over the top and a bit scary for locals and tourists. 

Hopefully this will result in a modernisation of  Thai laws.

 

[Canuck1966]

On the main page of the BBC website now haha

[aroiaroi]

17 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Your use of the word culpable, suggests that they are guilty, or responsible, for some wrongdoing. What exactly might that be ?

International headlines are along the lines of "Foreigner in Thailand submits 1 start hotel review and hotel pressed charges leading to jail time".
Apart from obviously being a bad business decision, it would appear they will have indirectly (and naively) damaged Thailand tourism industry.

The moral of the story is that there are better ways to handle a disgruntled customer than jailing them.

 

 

[polpott]

40 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Hopefully this will result in a modernisation of  Thai laws.

This is a modern Thai law. Brought in by the coup to stifle dissent against the "government".

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

International headlines are along the lines of "Foreigner in Thailand submits 1 start hotel review and hotel pressed charges leading to jail time".
Apart from obviously being a bad business decision, it would appear they will have indirectly (and naively) damaged Thailand tourism industry.

The moral of the story is that there are better ways to handle a disgruntled customer than jailing them.

 

 

Those headlines are incorrect as he submitted 2 reviews shortly are he left the hotel and a further 2 reviews between August 21-29 clearly the 1st 2 reviews didn't produced the results he was seeking hence publishing a further 2 reviews in August

"Barnes has indicated that he wants the situation resolved as soon as possible. He is back in court on October 6.

He said: 'Yes, I fear going to prison. I am willing to resolve this case with the hotel. "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8781885/An-American-voices-fears-facing-two-years-prison-criticising-Thailand-hotel.html

 

Its Strange that his drinking buddy has kept quite I sure various media outlets would be offering big bucks for the inside story

 

[metisdead]

An offensive post and the replies have been removed. 

[josephbloggs]

16 minutes ago, polpott said:

This is a modern Thai law. Brought in by the coup to stifle dissent against the "government".

Totally incorrect.

Defamation has been a criminal offence in Thailand for as long as I can remember - it is not a new thing and has nothing to do with the coup.

[TaoNow]

Some commenters are using the term "Ugly American" to refer to this chap who complained about the corkage fee in Koh Chang.

 

Please understand that the so-called "Ugly American" in the book by that name was, actually, the hero.

 

Read up...

[Nout]

On 9/26/2020 at 9:19 PM, Tropicalevo said:

For goodness sake. Taking outside alcohol into a restaurant anywhere in the world is a no no unless you ask for permission.

No. Its common. You pay a modest corkage fee.