American expat charged with defamation after leaving multiple negative reviews online

[mark131v]

6 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Totally incorrect.

Defamation has been a criminal offence in Thailand for as long as I can remember - it is not a new thing and has nothing to do with the coup.

This, LM and the computer crimes act prosecutions have all gone up since the coup it is without a doubt a control measure and little to do with crime or making society safer

[polpott]

3 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

Please understand that the so-called "Ugly American" in the book by that name was, actually, the hero.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_American_(pejorative)

 

"Ugly American" is a stereotype depicting American citizens as exhibiting loud, arrogant, demeaning, thoughtless, ignorant, and ethnocentric behavior mainly abroad, but also at home.

 

The term was used as the title of a 1948 photograph of an American tourist in Havana by the Cuban photographer Constantino Arias 

                                                         

 

By no means does this apply to all Americans but the guy in the OP does seem to fit the bill. We've all met 'em.

 

 

 

 

[Don Mega]

4 hours ago, Tagged said:

And another one in the shame box for all of us who are living here. 

 

Some still wondering why some thais do not like western people? For everyone who get published like this, more come along to hate the western attitude

please don't tar me with the same brush as this typically loud and obnoxious American.

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Nout said:

On 9/26/2020 at 9:19 PM, Tropicalevo said:

For goodness sake. Taking outside alcohol into a restaurant anywhere in the world is a no no unless you ask for permission.

No. Its common. You pay a modest corkage fee.

 

Indeed - I used to take wine to restaurants (in Thailand) all the time. We’d call up before hand and negotiate. 

Anything more than 300b corkage for a bottle of wine and we’d go elsewhere. Or, we’d negotiate for something like 500b on the first bottle and free after that (sometimes with 4 of us we’d take 4 bottles !).

 

The idea behind this is that we were sick of being skinned on wine costs. We could get hold of a bottle of wine for 1200 baht which sells at the supermarket for 3800 baht and in the restaurant for 6000+ baht. 

Or we’d be bring 600 baht bottles of wine, paying 300 baht corkage for wines which were selling in the restaurant for 2000 baht. 

 

The hotel and restaurant markups on wine have been ridiculous in Thailand. 

 

 

I’ve stayed at resorts before where we are sitting on the beach out the front of the hotel, chilling out, its early evening. We’ve ordered a few beers from the hotel restaurant etc and food which they’ve brought out to the beach. 

We ask for the hotel to bring some ice and sodas and we crack open a whisky... The hotel want to charge us corkage - we tell them we’re on the beach - they can get us some ice, soda and glasses (plastic) or we can go to 7-11 and get our own.

 

So... these stories are sometimes 6 to 1 and have half a dozen to the other. 

 

In this case it's fair enough for the hotel to charge corkage, but did they really need to? Times are low, they could have pleased the guests who were eating in the restaurant and would have bought mixers anyway. 

That said, the guest didn’t need to argue. Don’t get what you want, make a decision to accept it, or walk away - we’ve all done that plenty of times. 

 

Leaving multiple negative reviews in Thailand is silly. 

 

Thailands defamation laws are draconian and somewhat juvenile.

 

The idea that someone can sue a person leaving a negative review is outrageous. They can simply leave their response to the negative review after the negative review as hoteliers and restauranteurs do in any other establishment in the world !!!

 

Ultimately this issue highlight the immaturity of the Thai legal system.

 

 

 

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, aroiaroi said:

International headlines are along the lines of "Foreigner in Thailand submits 1 start hotel review and hotel pressed charges leading to jail time".
Apart from obviously being a bad business decision, it would appear they will have indirectly (and naively) damaged Thailand tourism industry.

The moral of the story is that there are better ways to handle a disgruntled customer than jailing them.

 

 

Hi, I agree with you that there are better ways of dealing with a disgruntled customer, but it needs both sides to be reasonable, post event. I don't know how much you have read about this issue, but Wesley Barnes was not in the least bit interested in making any compromise.

 

The hotel said “Before filing a complaint with the authorities, we attempted to contact the guest multiple times via email’s, TripAdvisor and phone calls, in order to settle this dispute amicably. None of our communications were successful, with the guest only responding to our messages after his arrest”

 

Phone and mail records can of course confirm this; however, he seemed to think he could continue to post multiple malicious and false comments about the hotel, even accusing them of slavery from the safety of his keyboard, without any repercussions.

 

There is a huge difference between posting negative comments, which can be helpful to us all, if truthful and constructive, and malicious, false, inflammatory ones; he thought he could get away with trying to ruin a small business with false accusations, and now he's crying like a baby and embracing this repugnant modern orthodoxy of victimhood.

 

On the first page of this post, Richard Barrow has kindly posted a link to the 5 page statement from the hotel, if you want to read both sides of the story

 

Cheers

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The slavery term is a bit over the top but he might have seen it that way.

Yes, this part is very interesting...

[A512]

I am rolling with this story, Thailand is a box of surprises, probably the guest kicked the bucket, but the owners of the resort went very low on this one, I would say a larvae state of mind.. wow wow

[josephbloggs]

41 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Yes, this part is very interesting...

Why?

[TDCNINJA]

On 9/26/2020 at 9:08 PM, Nout said:

Another self entitled yank bites the dust.lol

Another eurotrash scumbag with a self-esteem problem open his mouth.  

[Purdey]

On 9/28/2020 at 5:42 PM, vinny41 said:

The Hotel only went to the police after the 4th negative review 6-8 weeks after the person left the hotel and he ignored emails from both the hotel and tripadvisor and when contacted by phone refused to discuss the issue.

I do not know how many travel sites there are. I do not think you are limited to how many sites you can give a review on. I am still giving reviews on places I visited a few years ago.

[A512]

1 minute ago, Purdey said:

I do not know how many travel sites there are. I do not think you are limited to how many sites you can give a review on. I am still giving reviews on places I visited a few years ago.

a year ago? and do you remember the details? I never ever gave any review for anything, no interest at all.

[Purdey]

4.5 stars on Tripadvisor. 30 reviews said it was terrible. Why get so upset about one bad review?

[Purdey]

3 minutes ago, A512 said:

a year ago? and do you remember the details? I never ever gave any review for anything, no interest at all.

Yes, I am one of those who actually remembers a good holiday and have a big Excel spreadsheet of where I stayed, for how many days and how good it was. I share with friends.

[oldhippy]

If Tripadvisor were not such a shoddy low cost profit maximising website, they would hire moderators, and all this would not have happened.

 

 

 

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, Purdey said:

I do not know how many travel sites there are. I do not think you are limited to how many sites you can give a review on. I am still giving reviews on places I visited a few years ago.

 

4 minutes ago, Purdey said:

4.5 stars on Tripadvisor. 30 reviews said it was terrible. Why get so upset about one bad review?

But as we alll know it wasn't 1 review it was 4 reviews over a period of 2 months

"The management says it had told Mr Barnes several times they would not go ahead with pressing charges if he stopped writing new "false" reviews."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54335789

 

Here is 

An  Hotel Owner’s Story on Fake Reviews on TripAdvisor and how long it takes Tripadvisor to review fake reviews before removal

https://tripadvisorwatch.wordpress.com/trip-advisor-fake-reviews/

 

September 2018

“We see this as a landmark ruling for the Internet,” said Brad Young, VP, associate general counsel at TripAdvisor. “Writing fake reviews has always been fraud, but this is the first time we’ve seen someone sent to jail as a result.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tripadvisor-fake-reviews-paid-fraud-jail-legal-case-italy-promosalento-a8534006.html

.

[josephbloggs]

30 minutes ago, Purdey said:

4.5 stars on Tripadvisor. 30 reviews said it was terrible. Why get so upset about one bad review?

Is it so hard to read the article (and not just the headline) before posting?

[zzaa09]

On 9/26/2020 at 7:07 AM, ThailandRyan said:

Only in Thailand could this happen. No cease and desist orders necessary or blocking him and having the posts removed.  Not like tbe rest of the world.

Yes, of course.

The rest of the world.

????

[mark131v]

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

But as we alll know it wasn't 1 review it was 4 reviews over a period of 2 months

"The management says it had told Mr Barnes several times they would not go ahead with pressing charges if he stopped writing new "false" reviews."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54335789

 

Here is 

An  Hotel Owner’s Story on Fake Reviews on TripAdvisor and how long it takes Tripadvisor to review fake reviews before removal

https://tripadvisorwatch.wordpress.com/trip-advisor-fake-reviews/

 

September 2018

“We see this as a landmark ruling for the Internet,” said Brad Young, VP, associate general counsel at TripAdvisor. “Writing fake reviews has always been fraud, but this is the first time we’ve seen someone sent to jail as a result.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tripadvisor-fake-reviews-paid-fraud-jail-legal-case-italy-promosalento-a8534006.html

.

For the sake of clarity and because only the BBC linked report is specifically about this particular case and, it is also undeniably a Thai legal issue wrt abuse or misuse I have added some stuff from the BBC link from a man who has first hand experience of Thai defamation law:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54335789

 

'A law unusually easy to abuse'

 

Jonathan Head, BBC South East Asia correspondent, Thailand

 

Thailand is not unique in criminalising defamation, but the law, which carries a punishment of up to two years in prison, is unusually easy to abuse. I was prosecuted for criminal defamation in 2016 for a report I made for the BBC. The plaintiff dropped the case 18 months later.

 

Plaintiffs do not have to get the police or a prosecutor to file a criminal complaint - they can file directly to a court, and courts rarely reject them. So anyone subject to such a complaint almost invariably becomes a criminal defendant, summoned to court to defend themselves, or subject to arrest if they don't.

 

The defendant will have to post bail, and if a foreigner, will have their passport held by the court and the cases often last many years. They cannot recoup the substantial costs of defending such cases, even if they win, unless they file a separate civil case. The plaintiffs, on the other hand, are not liable to pay costs even if they lose.

 

It gets worse. In Thailand truth is not an automatic defence as it is in many countries. So even if what you have said, or reported, is true, and the plaintiff admits it is true, you can still go to jail, unless you can prove there is a public interest in reporting it. Finding reliable and affordable lawyers is also very difficult.

 

Unsurprisingly, criminal defamation cases are frequently used in commercial or political disputes. Rights groups allege that they are often abused to harass and silence those fighting injustice. One poultry processing company has filed as many as 38 legal cases, many of them criminal defamation, against workers and human rights campaigners who complained about labour abuses. One journalist has already received a two-year prison sentence for social media comments about the case.

Edited September 29, 2020 by mark131v

[A512]

2 hours ago, Purdey said:

Yes, I am one of those who actually remembers a good holiday and have a big Excel spreadsheet of where I stayed, for how many days and how good it was. I share with friends.

can't remember my last breakfast, time to start a journal about my whereabouts. I always feel like surprise me about the places I am going to stay like in the old times before internet. also I failed to see the point of promoting someone's business, I would not get paid for that.

[pegman]

Seems he did a couple stints in the hoosegow before this. One of the Ozark's finest.

 

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article179883836.html?fbclid=IwAR3MC4Tr_oLs78c0Cpt9n-jC7geZJ4dMt6pvIStqMUEk_LdODpr87lAMZGg

[daveAustin]

Banana republic!

[polpott]

8 hours ago, TDCNINJA said:

Another eurotrash scumbag with a self-esteem problem open his mouth.  

You've just proved his point. 555

[Tagged]

8 hours ago, TDCNINJA said:

Another eurotrash scumbag with a self-esteem problem open his mouth.  

Trash comes with many colours, bakgrounds and nationalities. 
 

Trash is trash no matter what language they speaks

[polpott]

8 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Here is 

An  Hotel Owner’s Story on Fake Reviews on TripAdvisor and how long it takes Tripadvisor to review fake reviews before removal

https://tripadvisorwatch.wordpress.com/trip-advisor-fake-reviews/

 

Unfortunately there are many times more fake positive reviews on TripAdvisor than negative reviews.

 

According to TripAdvisor, 3 of the top 10 restaurants in Pattaya are Indian, including Number 1. (ask an expat if there are any decent Indian restaurants in Pattaya) Their reviews are littered with fake reviews. Easy to spot, many reviewers have only the one review and contain the same stock phrases throughout the reviews, No:3 on the list is on 2nd Road, never has customers and one review was clearly by the manager posing as a customer.

 

As a user, I'd rather see a few overly negative reviews than reams of blatantly fake positive reviews.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by polpott

[Ganesh108]

The fact that the American posted multiple reviews indicates psychological insecurity and obsessive behavior. I wouldn't want to be on the guy's enemy list. He sounds like the kind of person who will butcher your dog and burn your car, just because your tree grows over his fence. A course in anger management seems appropriate, not jail time.

 

If this thing goes to court, Thailand will lose 100,000 potential tourists, and the resort better change its name, as it will be tainted beyond repair as well. Both sides overreacted.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Ganesh108
addition

[josephbloggs]

8 hours ago, Purdey said:

Yes, I am one of those who actually remembers a good holiday and have a big Excel spreadsheet of where I stayed, for how many days and how good it was. I share with friends.

I bet your friends always look forward to receiving your big holiday Excel sheet.

[pegman]

8 minutes ago, Ganesh108 said:

The fact that the American posted multiple reviews indicates psychological insecurity and obsessive behavior. I wouldn't want to be on the guy's enemy list. He sounds like the kind of person who will butcher your dog and burn your car, just because your tree grows over his fence. A course in anger management seems appropriate, not jail time.

 

If this thing goes to court, Thailand will lose 100,000 potential tourists, and the resort better change its name, as it will be tainted beyond repair as well.

100,000? Do you really think the Chinese or other Asians care that an American felon got locked up. Amused maybe but surely not concerned. Same goes for single males from anywhere. 

[polpott]

9 hours ago, Purdey said:

Yes, I am one of those who actually remembers a good holiday and have a big Excel spreadsheet of where I stayed, for how many days and how good it was. I share with friends.

Your holiday slide shows must be legendary.

[Tagged]

27 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I bet your friends always look forward to receiving your big holiday Excel sheet.

I prefer to keep them logged and saved on google maps ????????

[ChipButty]

36 minutes ago, Ganesh108 said:

The fact that the American posted multiple reviews indicates psychological insecurity and obsessive behavior. I wouldn't want to be on the guy's enemy list. He sounds like the kind of person who will butcher your dog and burn your car, just because your tree grows over his fence. A course in anger management seems appropriate, not jail time.

 

If this thing goes to court, Thailand will lose 100,000 potential tourists, and the resort better change its name, as it will be tainted beyond repair as well. Both sides overreacted.

Maybe Americans but they over react anyway