COVID-19 is not going away soon or ever

[polpott]

5 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-up-to-50-000-cancers-going-undiagnosed-due-to-covid-report-finds-12117467

 

Up to 50,000 cancers undiagnosed in the UK alone. Yeah, ok, a myth and scaremongering.

 

3 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-up-to-50-000-cancers-going-undiagnosed-due-to-covid-report-finds-12117467

 

Report me for telling the truth about undiagnosed cancers? A truth which has been widely reported? Want to silence me for pointing out that lockdowns kill? Ok then.

From the same link:

 

"But a spokesperson for the health service in England said Macmillan's findings are "flawed" adding: "Because thanks to the hard work of NHS staff, cancer treatments are actually back to pre-pandemic levels.

"The majority of people who have not been diagnosed are people who have not come forward for checks and so our message is clear - if you have worrying symptoms you must get this checked - the NHS is ready and able to treat you."

 

My daughter and her husband are front line workers in a hospital in Lancashire.

 

I am currently in need of treatment for a heart condition and wish to return to the UK for treatment. They have both assured me that I would not have to wait for treatment.

 

I have had cancer and asked for help from Macmillan at the time. They were worse than useless.

[polpott]

Just now, PatrickC said:

And why can't we just ignore it and move on with life? Why do we all need to be obsessed by it? What purpose does this serve other than degrading our mental health?

At a cost of thousands more lives.

 

More "me, me, me, I'm OK so up yours"

[sezze]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooo, they can't be too sick if they can come and work in a hospital. That's really hard work and no one that is impaired physically or mentally would be safe ( for the patients ) IMO working in a ward. Giving the wrong medication because one was mentally impaired could cause more problems for a patient than the disease, and who would be liable in court- the nurse or the management for allowing them to work impaired?

You do know that not everybody is sick of Covid , but if you are infected , you can't go to work , since you are infecting other people . In this case , they ask if they can come work in the covid area . Since they are infected anyway , it doesnt do more harm , since everybody there is infected and closed of the rest of the hospital .

Space can always be created , the army can also build tents for putting patients in . Nurses and doctors cant be created in a few days . Stacking people without the needed care is not what you want from a hospital .

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

The virus is raging because it is a highly contagious virus, and that is what highly contagious viruses do. We can not stop it any more than we can stop a tsunami. 

 

And why can't we just ignore it and move on with life? Why do we all need to be obsessed by it? What purpose does this serve other than degrading our mental health?

 

It is better to be positive and move on with life, not negative and obsess over the virus. Many people who obsess over the virus are intensely negative types with grim life outlooks and a victim mentality.

 

Sorry buddy but wanting to move on doesn't make me selfish. It just means I don't want to spend years fixating on a virus that we can't stop. Some of us want to enjoy our lives.

 

We're all going to die one day. Until that day, best enjoy it.

Ummm...we did stop it here in Thailand.  As have many other countries.  And people in those countries are getting on with their life.

 

Time for the west to do the same.  Then, we can all move around freely.

 

It is better to pay attention to the dangers of this pandemic, not dismiss them like you do. Sadly.

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts reported and removed.  

[sezze]

3 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

So why don't we lockdown for the flu? And why don't we stop people having sex to stop HIV spreading? Why don't we lock down for 6 months until every virus on the planet is eliminated?

 

Sorry to break this to you, but getting sick is part of being human. Everyone gets sick and everyone dies. It happens. None of us can avoid it.

The flu is much less harmful , and there is a vaccine .

HIV , condoms are a easy solution and the virus can't travel through latex/rubber .

Getting sick is part of human nature , yes ... why do we got hospitals and doctors , why just not shut them all down , people get sick anyways and eventually all die . ...

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, sezze said:

You do know that not everybody is sick of Covid , but if you are infected , you can't go to work , since you are infecting other people . In this case , they ask if they can come work in the covid area . Since they are infected anyway , it doesnt do more harm , since everybody there is infected and closed of the rest of the hospital .

Space can always be created , the army can also build tents for putting patients in . Nurses and doctors cant be created in a few days . Stacking people without the needed care is not what you want from a hospital .

Speaking as a nurse I do understand that. It just opens up liability against the nurse if they make a mistake for coming to work while impaired. I wouldn't agree to go to work while infected unless I had a cast iron immunity agreement before doing so, and that would have to come from the government. Too risky to being struck off the register otherwise.

Nurses these days are liable for prosecution for too many things, IMO.

[polpott]

12 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

No one is denying covid is out there. No one with any sanity. What we are saying is that there is no need to stop our lives for this. Life goes on. We need to be positive and just move on.

 

There are about 40 million people with HIV around the world, many of whom will have a shorter life expectancy, but we don't stop everyone having sex. Why aren't we running around screaming about that?

 

I've had a few cancers. Stuff happens in life. Best just to move on and enjoy life. Sitting around looking at figures and graphs and shouting that people are "grannie killers" and "covid deniers" and whatever solves nothing.

Spoken like a true Covid denier.

[sezze]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Speaking as a nurse I do understand that. It just opens up liability against the nurse if they make a mistake for coming to work while impaired. I wouldn't agree to go to work while infected unless I had a cast iron immunity agreement before doing so, and that would have to come from the government. Too risky to being struck off the register otherwise.

Nurses these days are liable for prosecution for too many things, IMO.

In Belgium , nurses and doctors are nearly never prosecuted , even if there are clear errors made . Over here , thats nothing to worry about .

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, sezze said:

, the army can also build tents for putting patients in . Nurses and doctors cant be created in a few days .

The army already has lots of tents called field hospitals. They don't need to build them.

 

Nurses have been unappreciated, exploited and underpaid for decades. Many that would have trained as nurses in the past won't touch the job anymore for reasons too many to put on here, but now that they are wanted, all of a sudden people and politicians care!

[polpott]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Speaking as a nurse I do understand that. It just opens up liability against the nurse if they make a mistake for coming to work while impaired. I wouldn't agree to go to work while infected unless I had a cast iron immunity agreement before doing so, and that would have to come from the government. Too risky to being struck off the register otherwise.

Nurses these days are liable for prosecution for too many things, IMO.

Nurses don't come to work if they're Covid positive. That's the problem with front line workers being positive. A good nurse doesn't make mistakes even when under pressure. If they do, they shouldn't be in the job.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, sezze said:

In Belgium , nurses and doctors are nearly never prosecuted , even if there are clear errors made . Over here , thats nothing to worry about .

Given I don't live in Belgium, I was talking about where I live, but I find it extraordinary that a nurse or Dr wouldn't be struck off for making a serious mistake in any western country.

[actonion]

we dont need any more Doom and Gloom headlines...

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, actonion said:

we dont need any more Doom and Gloom headlines...

Bad news sells well.  As seen from the many topics here.

[KC 71]

4 hours ago, PatrickC said:

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-up-to-50-000-cancers-going-undiagnosed-due-to-covid-report-finds-12117467

 

Report me for telling the truth about undiagnosed cancers? A truth which has been widely reported? Want to silence me for pointing out that lockdowns kill? Ok then.

'The Thought Police" !

[Jeffr2]

Just now, PatrickC said:

 

It can't be stopped now. That is the point. That ship has sailed. The lockdowns in Victoria lasted 3 or 4 months. That is inhumane and degrading treatment.

 

And regardless there is no conclusive proof that they did stop it in Thailand with lockdowns. They might just have had a lucky miss. We can no more prove that lockdowns stopped covid in Thailand than we can prove that god exists.

 

Just because there was not a huge covid wave here, it doesn't mean it was because of lockdowns. There is simply no conclusive proof of this.

 

Of course covid can be dangerous. But living is dangerous. I've had 2 rare cancers. Stuff happens. It is not worth worrying about.

 

I learnt some time ago not to loose sleep over something you can't control.

 

What about the next pandemic in a few years? Will we lockdown for that as well? And I've read suggestions from some scientists in NZ that we should lock down for the flu as well. It is just nuts. Everything good that defines us as a species is being destroyed by this insane hysteria.

 

A whole young generation is having their lives destroyed to save elderly who have only a few years left. It is so crazy.

Troll

[Jeffr2]

31 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

Sure - call me whatever names help you sleep better at night.

 

Someone doesn't agree with you? Call them a troll, ask them to be banned, call them fascists, call them granny killers, etc. Very constructive.

It's not about disagreement.  You're a covid denier and that's dangerous to others.  You put your welfare above others.  And that's selfish and dangerous to others.

 

Please, leave me alone.

[Jillie Norman]

Clearly, this pandemic has caused a lot of chaos, globally and digitally. I just pray this stops now, but who knows.

 

We all have different views and we can't force people to do and think what we do. So, yes, we will be this way, mostly on our own, to do what is safest for ourselves.

[polpott]

Just now, Jillie Norman said:

So, yes, we will be this way, mostly on our own, to do what is safest for ourselves.

We're not alone, we're all in this together (or should be). Also do what's safest for others, or are you another "me,me,me"?

[Odysseus123]

7 minutes ago, polpott said:

We're not alone, we're all in this together (or should be). Also do what's safest for others, or are you another "me,me,me"?

Presumably..

 

The US is not delivering 'em as thick and fast as a few months ago.

[VBF]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's not about disagreement.  You're a covid denier and that's dangerous to others.  You put your welfare above others.  And that's selfish and dangerous to others.

 

Please, leave me alone.

I don't see @PatrickC    as either a troll or a Covid denier - I've "thanked" several of his posts and I'm not a Covid denier either, and I don't recall advocating killing grannies.

 

What I get from his posts is that the way in which the pandemic is being handled by various world governments is way out of all proportion, with the remedy (lockdown) being more harmful than the disease.

 

What is undisputed FACT is that for the majority of CV-affected people, serious illnesses and/or deaths are among older people or those with pre-existing conditions. 

 

Given that we know that, they are the people who should be advised to isolate if they are worried, not the entire world! 

 

Furthermore, and I've said this so often, it's almost a "copy and paste", the word "cases" is IMO, misused over and over.  "Cases" (again IMO), should be reserved for sick people not just those who happen to be infected. This, after all is the situation with other illnesses - for example, there are "HIV-positive people" and there are "AIDS cases" - they are NOT automatically the same thing!!

 

But.......it makes better publicity to announce "X number of cases" rather than "X number of people who might be carriers"

 

Now call ME a Covid denier or a troll ????

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by VBF

[VBF]

32 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

Honestly, you need to give this covid denier label up man. Read through my posts. I have never, at any point, stated that covid doesn't exist. What I have stated is that our response to it has been hysterical and is not proportionate. 

 

Twitter, these and other message boards are being used by people to push a very extreme response to covid - that we should lock down, all wear masks, not come into contact with each other. A counter response to this frankly dangerous ideology is required.

 

It is you who is dangerous to others, not me. The hysteria around covid has become far more dangerous than covid itself. We're degrading people's mental health with our obsession with this illness. It is a sort of collective madness.

 

As I've stated many times, covid is clearly dangerous in some cases. But in most cases, it is not. 

 

We need to learn to live with this illness, and move on. The probability is that covid will be with us permanently now. The probability is also that we will likely have shorter life expectancies as a result. The best thing for us to do now is to accept that and just live the best lives we can.

 

Whatever years I've got left, I want to enjoy. I don't want to spend them obsessed by this or any other illness. It is just not worth it.

 

I know that it is very difficult for you to accept that covid is with us permanently, never to go away, but it is, so you need to learn to cope with it. You're clearly in a cycle of grief and denial at the moment. I hope you reach acceptance soon.

Spot on! ????

[polpott]

9 hours ago, PatrickC said:

 

Honestly, you need to give this covid denier label up man. Read through my posts. I have never, at any point, stated that covid doesn't exist. What I have stated is that our response to it has been hysterical and is not proportionate. 

 

Twitter, these and other message boards are being used by people to push a very extreme response to covid - that we should lock down, all wear masks, not come into contact with each other. A counter response to this frankly dangerous ideology is required.

 

It is you who is dangerous to others, not me. The hysteria around covid has become far more dangerous than covid itself. We're degrading people's mental health with our obsession with this illness. It is a sort of collective madness.

 

As I've stated many times, covid is clearly dangerous in some cases. But in most cases, it is not. 

 

We need to learn to live with this illness, and move on. The probability is that covid will be with us permanently now. The probability is also that we will likely have shorter life expectancies as a result. The best thing for us to do now is to accept that and just live the best lives we can.

 

Whatever years I've got left, I want to enjoy. I don't want to spend them obsessed by this or any other illness. It is just not worth it.

 

I know that it is very difficult for you to accept that covid is with us permanently, never to go away, but it is, so you need to learn to cope with it. You're clearly in a cycle of grief and denial at the moment. I hope you reach acceptance soon.

Ever heard of vaccines? Ever heard of smallpox? The world was in fear of smallpox in the late 50s. I can remember 'as a small child, queuing for hours at night in the freezing cold, to receive my smallpox vaccination. Where is smallpox now?

 

Within 12 months everyone will have received their Covid vaccine and Covid will be history. The only stumbling block is Covid deniers and anti vaxers. People like you.

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, VBF said:

I don't see @PatrickC    as either a troll or a Covid denier - I've "thanked" several of his posts and I'm not a Covid denier either, and I don't recall advocating killing grannies.

 

What I get from his posts is that the way in which the pandemic is being handled by various world governments is way out of all proportion, with the remedy (lockdown) being more harmful than the disease.

 

What is undisputed FACT is that for the majority of CV-affected people, serious illnesses and/or deaths are among older people or those with pre-existing conditions. 

 

Given that we know that, they are the people who should be advised to isolate if they are worried, not the entire world! 

 

Furthermore, and I've said this so often, it's almost a "copy and paste", the word "cases" is IMO, misused over and over.  "Cases" (again IMO), should be reserved for sick people not just those who happen to be infected. This, after all is the situation with other illnesses - for example, there are "HIV-positive people" and there are "AIDS cases" - they are NOT automatically the same thing!!

 

But.......it makes better publicity to announce "X number of cases" rather than "X number of people who might be carriers"

 

Now call ME a Covid denier or a troll ????

 

Here is one of his posts:

 

Quote

Twitter, these and other message boards are being used by people to push a very extreme response to covid - that we should lock down, all wear masks, not come into contact with each other. A counter response to this frankly dangerous ideology is required.

This is absolutely denying the severity of this pandemic and goes 100% against the advice of all medical experts.  A dangerous statement to make and could actually harm others.  No counter response is required and actually, many posts that say this, are hidden.  For good reasons.

 

Another:

Quote

It is better to be positive and move on with life, not negative and obsess over the virus. Many people who obsess over the virus are intensely negative types with grim life outlooks and a victim mentality.

Kinda hard to be positive with life and move on when the virus is raging and thousands are dying every day.  Many people who obsess over the virus are medical experts who care about the well being of others.

 

About the most heartless statement I've ever read, and complete BS.

Quote

An entire generation of young lives ruined by selfish politicians and middle classes who insist on lockdowns to save their grannies, no matter the cost. Actually, they are afraid for their own lives. They just use their grannies as an excuse to hide their own fear.

 

Quote

Go and speak to them and tell them your grannie is more important than them.

 

This is not reality, it's being done to save the lives of potentially millions of people.  Jeez.

Quote

The reality is, lockdowns kill people.

 

Completely false.  It's about saving the lives of others and not overwhelming medical facilities.

Quote

Supporting military dictatorship to put down democratic freedoms.

 

[Jeffr2]

Taiwan contained the virus with no lockdowns.  It can be done.  Lockdowns are just one part of the strategy to control the virus.  Something a few don't seem to understand.

 

Like China, us, and many other countries, they are doing OK and society has opened up.  Follow the guidelines and we'll get through this.  Ignore them, and, well, we're seeing the consequences now in pretty much every Western country.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/29/asia/taiwan-covid-19-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Taiwan just went 200 days without a locally transmitted Covid-19 case. Here's how they did it

[scammed]

sweden is not only past corona, but it never made media headlines in the first instance, nor did it cause politicians

there to enforce serfdom and wage economic warfare

on their own nation.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

 

Here is how they did it

 

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, scammed said:

sweden is not only past corona, but it never made media headlines in the first instance, nor did it cause politicians

there to enforce serfdom and wage economic warfare

on their own nation.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

 

Here is how they did it

 

It's been proven Sweden's approach didn't work.  NO herd immunity, much higher cases and deaths than nearby neighbors, and an economy that performed worse than these neighbors.

 

From your source.  We know death rates follow cases by 2-4 weeks.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Jeffr2

[rabas]

3 hours ago, polpott said:

Ever heard of vaccines? Ever heard of smallpox? The world was in fear of smallpox in the late 50s. I can remember 'as a small child, queuing for hours at night in the freezing cold, to receive my smallpox vaccination. Where is smallpox now?

 

Within 12 months everyone will have received their Covid vaccine and Covid will be history. The only stumbling block is Covid deniers and anti vaxers. People like you.

Whoa, not so 'fast'.

 

Smallpox mutates slowly so vaccines are easy to make.  Smallpox is double stranded DNA and coronavirus is single stand RNA. DNA has a mutation resistant backup copy that RNA doesn't. In fact, there have already been two significant SARS2 mutations. Vaccines will come but it may not be a magic bullet like smallpox.

[Bluetongue]

I have noticed that the most frightened people are in the main, the most abusive, most likely to declare their own opinions as facts (facts and ignored good news still emerging every day) and most likely to declare any divergence of opinion with theirs as covid denier tin foli hat etc etc

[cmarshall]

41 minutes ago, rabas said:

Whoa, not so 'fast'.

 

Smallpox mutates slowly so vaccines are easy to make.  Smallpox is double stranded DNA and coronavirus is single stand RNA. DNA has a mutation resistant backup copy that RNA doesn't. In fact, there have already been two significant SARS2 mutations. Vaccines will come but it may not be a magic bullet like smallpox.

Interesting, however I understand that coronaviruses as a group do not mutate much at all.  For the four coronaviruses that cause 30% of common colds, the infections produce no lasting immunity so that the victim just gets the same cold from the same virus the next year.  As we know no vaccine has ever been developed for any coronavirus including SARS and MERS.