COVID-19 is not going away soon or ever

[TeaMonkey]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Deaths:

Finland: 351

Norway: 278

Sweden: 5,918

 

Hmmm....doesn't look like the Sweden model did very well.  Economically?  They performed the worst also.

Compare Sweden with Sweden. There is nothing exceptional about how many people have died so far this year. It’s been in the normal range.
And they have not turned their country into a police state, shut down their hospitals to cancer treatment, caused untold mental health issues, caused mass unemployment. They have now gone back to normal, almost no one is wearing masks and they consider the rest of the world has gone mad. 

[Jeffr2]

20 minutes ago, TeaMonkey said:

Compare Sweden with Sweden. There is nothing exceptional about how many people have died so far this year. It’s been in the normal range.
And they have not turned their country into a police state, shut down their hospitals to cancer treatment, caused untold mental health issues, caused mass unemployment. They have now gone back to normal, almost no one is wearing masks and they consider the rest of the world has gone mad. 

Normal except for those whose lives were ended early. And the thousands more suffering potentially life long consequences. And, their economy is doing worse than their close neighbors.

 

Who's gone mad?

[polpott]

24 minutes ago, TeaMonkey said:

Compare Sweden with Sweden. There is nothing exceptional about how many people have died so far this year. It’s been in the normal range.

Sorry you can't cope with reality. Compare Sweden with its immediate neighbours. Daily infection rates have been rising in Sweden since the end of August.

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

Sorry you can't cope with reality. Compare Sweden with its immediate neighbours. Daily infection rates have been rising in Sweden since the end of August.

Why would you want to compare Sweden ONLY with its close neighbors? 

 

Are they representative of the world at large? 

 

I don't think so. 

 

Sweden has privileged freedom, and there is often a price to pay for that, often much more than a few thousand deaths. 

 

As Ben Franklin said: "those who are ready to sacrifice their freedom in exchange for more security deserve neither one, nor the other". 

 

 

[polpott]

Just now, Brunolem said:

Why would you want to compare Sweden ONLY with its close neighbors? 

 

Are they representative of the world at large? 

Because its the best like for like comparison. The only difference is that its neighbours have followed Covid guidelines Sweden hasn't.

 

Would you have preferred that I compare it with Thailand?

[TeaMonkey]

11 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Normal except for those whose lives were ended early. And the thousands more suffering potentially life long consequences. And, their economy is doing worse than their close neighbors.

 

Who's gone mad?

So when you have a normal amount of people dying this year how much life would they have saved? A few weeks or months? Is that worth the destruction of the economy, healthcare, freedoms, education that is happening in the rest of Europe?
Long Covid is rare. If you are under 70 you have 0.05% chance of dying from it. Over 80% of people are asymptomatic. So very low risk. The average age of death is over 80 and in people who are already very ill.  

 

[Jeffr2]

34 minutes ago, TeaMonkey said:

So when you have a normal amount of people dying this year how much life would they have saved? A few weeks or months? Is that worth the destruction of the economy, healthcare, freedoms, education that is happening in the rest of Europe?
Long Covid is rare. If you are under 70 you have 0.05% chance of dying from it. Over 80% of people are asymptomatic. So very low risk. The average age of death is over 80 and in people who are already very ill.  

 

Life expectancy increases almost every year. Health care gets better. Sp perhaps normal isn't really that good.

 

Plus, pretty much every reputable organization says we are losing people way over normal. Due to covid.

[3NUMBAS]

'On the brink of disaster': Europe's Covid fight takes a turn for the worse

Jon Henley in Paris

,

The Guardian•16 October 2020

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/brink-disaster-europes-covid-fight-131425056.html

“It’s not a word I’ve heard in a long, long time,” an elderly Paris resident said, leaving her apartment in mask and gloves for an early expedition to the shops. “A curfew. That’s for wartime, isn’t it? But in a way I suppose that’s what this is.”

Europe’s second coronavirus wave took a dramatic turn for the worse this week, forcing governments across the continent to make tough choices as more than a dozen countries reported their highest ever number of new infections.

In France, 18 million people in nine big cities risk a fine from Saturday if they are not at home by 9pm. In the Czech Republic, schools have closed and medical students are being enlisted to help doctors. All Dutch bars and restaurants are shut.

Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Poland are among countries to have broken daily case records, prompting the World Health Organization to call for an “uncompromising” effort to stem the spread.

Unfortunately, that requires making all but impossible compromises.

Most European governments relaxed strict lockdowns over the summer to revive economies shattered by the pandemic’s first wave. The return of normal activity, from packed bars to new academic terms, has fuelled an exponential increase in infections.

With infections across the continent breaking the barrier of 120,000 a day, authorities must now tighten restrictions once more to slow the spread of the disease – while doing all they can to avoid destroying already-jeopardised jobs and livelihoods.

Edited October 17, 2020 by 3NUMBAS

[Jeffr2]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/10/15/how-excess-mortality-in-2020-compares-infographic/#74f7d91c67a2

[from the home of CC]

7 hours ago, steelepulse said:

Sweden deaths right in line with every other year.  Covid hasn't changed overall death rates.  Only thing to see here is 2019 had less deaths than normal.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

imo they basically committed manslaughter by barring generics in homes from receiving  hospital care, instead putting them to sleep as you would a dog - when the dust settles on this there will be an inquest on this psychopathic behavior.. 

[3NUMBAS]

10 hours ago, Henryford said:

The average age of Covid deaths in the UK is 82. I don't it as any problem at all.

especially if they have underlying health probs which has been noted before

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

And do we get upset at every other life that is ended early? Every death from a car crash or diabetes? Every alcohol related death, etc? Death is part of the cycle of life. I don't know why people think covid is such an exceptional event. It is just nature doing what nature does.

Because its so massively infectious and public health measures can cut that down a lot. That's the difference. 

[scammed]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Normal except for those whose lives were ended early. And the thousands more suffering potentially life long consequences. And, their economy is doing worse than their close neighbors.

 

Who's gone mad?

you got that 180 degree wrong, swedens economy are doing better then their neighbors and the health care system arent preoccupied with covid at the expense of all other tasks,

the loss of jobs are less then other nations although

their economic collapse did have an effect on sweden too since its a net export country

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

And public health measures can't cut down diabetes? Or cancers? Governments could ban sugary or oily foods if they wanted. Yet they don't. And how about alcohol related deaths? Also could easily be reduced by banning booze. Yet governments don't.

 

Sorry but what you wrote is not true. The reason we've reacted so strongly to this is because of a primal fear response. Over coming years, as people start to die from all the cancers not diagnosed during lockdowns, there needs to be a reckoning - Nuremberg type trials where leaders are brought to account for this.

Classic diversionary what about-ism. The issue here is this pandemic which is about a massively infectious virus that if left to run unchecked as seems to be the current radical fascist political agenda (cull the herd) will indeed cause many millions of unneccesary deaths. If you want to talk about diabetes, start a new topic elsewhere.

[elliss]

22 hours ago, sevenhills said:

More scaremongering from this criminal organisation, <deleted>. ????

 

   Name names . 

   Who is controlling the Covid-19 , pandemic panic .

   Those who , controls the World wide media ..

   Super cure , expected soon , at a price ...

  

 

    

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by elliss
spelling

[scammed]

6 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yes..but the poster and sundry others get told that ad nauseam-only to briefly pause and then continue their perseverative ways.

 

Please note that I am using the word perseverative not repetition as their posts are not amenable to reason and,therefore,the perseverative statements cannot stop short of inter- galactic intervention.

 

Gawd..I hope the Alpha Centaurans turn up soon..

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-29/sweden-s-economy-posts-surprise-upside-amid-lax-covid-19-plan

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/29/coronavirus-swedens-gdp-actually-grew-in-the-first-quarter.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53664354

Edited October 17, 2020 by scammed

[elliss]

20 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

Sorry but it is not massively infectious and it is not going to cause that many deaths in the scheme of things. There might be some excess deaths this year, but as a percentage of total deaths it won't be significant. I also expect deaths to be under the usual tally in coming years since some people who might have otherwise died next year and the next were taken out this year.

 

It is just the normal cycle of life and death. Get over it and move on. There is no "cull the herd" agenda so stop being a drama queen. No one is actively trying to kill anyone or reduce the population. Many of us simply want to move on and live a normal life, and are over all this fear mongering.

 

    A valid opinion ..

[RoadWarrior371]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Classic diversionary what about-ism. The issue here is this pandemic which is about a massively infectious virus that if left to run unchecked as seems to be the current radical fascist political agenda (cull the herd) will indeed cause many millions of unneccesary deaths. If you want to talk about diabetes, start a new topic elsewhere.

Tread lightly, not all the evidence is on your side.  Likely that even with lock-down policies of violent socialist Democrats we would still endure unnecessary deaths, and also wreck the economy.  Europe anyone? 

 

“Confidence is ignorance. If you're feeling cocky, it's because there's something you don't know.”   ????

[DavisH]

On 10/16/2020 at 5:29 PM, roquefort said:

Ready and waiting. The problem is the sheeple have no capacity to analyse, rationalise or question any of the garbage their governments and the MSM feed them.

Because the really smart people, like Trump, know the truth, right? So the vast majority of the world's scientists are sheeple too?

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

Tread lightly, not all the evidence is on your side.  Likely that even with lock-down policies of violent socialist Democrats we would still endure unnecessary deaths, and also wreck the economy.  Europe anyone? 

 

“Confidence is ignorance. If you're feeling cocky, it's because there's something you don't know.”   ????

Nobody is saying that all pandemic deaths can be avoided. 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, PatrickC said:

 

Sorry but it is not massively infectious and it is not going to cause that many deaths in the scheme of things. There might be some excess deaths this year, but as a percentage of total deaths it won't be significant. I also expect deaths to be under the usual tally in coming years since some people who might have otherwise died next year and the next were taken out this year.

 

It is just the normal cycle of life and death. Get over it and move on. There is no "cull the herd" agenda so stop being a drama queen. No one is actively trying to kill anyone or reduce the population. Many of us simply want to move on and live a normal life, and are over all this fear mongering.

Its hard to take anyone seriously that asserts that this virus is not massively infectious. You're just wrong.

 

On the non vaccine herd immunity thing its a mass murderous and idiotic policy choice but guess who's for it?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/14/herd-immunity-barrington-declaration/

Edited October 17, 2020 by Jingthing

[Don Chance]

It could go away sooner than you think, look on the bright side:

 

1) Mass testing, a cheap test is being developed in India. If we can test everyone at home by themselves every few days we can eliminate and arrest the virus in no time.

 

2) China already has a vaccine.

 

3) A cure or treatment may come soon.

 

"Dr. McCullough’s team of experts recommend cheap, safe, FDA-approved medicines—hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) with azithromycin or doxycycline, possibly ivermectin or colchicine, inhaled budesonide or the more potent oral prednisone, anticoagulants, supplemental zinc, vitamin C and vitamin D, and home oxygen concentrators."

[Nout]

On 10/16/2020 at 6:44 AM, Jingthing said:

No. Not permanent. You're making that up. Another year or two is not permanent. 

Flu is permanent. It hasn't gone away.  Covid will never go away.  TB hasn't gone away neither will Covid.

[Nout]

9 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

It could go away sooner than you think, look on the bright side:

 

1) Mass testing, a cheap test is being developed in India. If we can test everyone at home by themselves every few days we can eliminate and arrest the virus in no time.

 

2) China already has a vaccine.

 

3) A cure or treatment may come soon.

 

"Dr. McCullough’s team of experts recommend cheap, safe, FDA-approved medicines—hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) with azithromycin or doxycycline, possibly ivermectin or colchicine, inhaled budesonide or the more potent oral prednisone, anticoagulants, supplemental zinc, vitamin C and vitamin D, and home oxygen concentrators."

555

[Credo]

4 hours ago, PatrickC said:

 

And public health measures can't cut down diabetes? Or cancers? Governments could ban sugary or oily foods if they wanted. Yet they don't. And how about alcohol related deaths? Also could easily be reduced by banning booze. Yet governments don't.

 

Sorry but what you wrote is not true. The reason we've reacted so strongly to this is because of a primal fear response. Over coming years, as people start to die from all the cancers not diagnosed during lockdowns, there needs to be a reckoning - Nuremberg type trials where leaders are brought to account for this.

Public health measures are in place to help control diabetes, but diabetes is not contagious.   Next time you want to know how much sugar is in something, just check the label.   Alcohol is also controlled, but again, alcoholism is not contagious.   The amount of alcohol in a beverage is listed and the rules around drinking and driving are quite stringent.   Get caught and you will not be behind the wheel for a time.   

or

So, your comparisons are false.   Now go ahead and test positive for HIV and have sex with someone and find out how it is handled.  You will face arrest and prosecution and that can go all the way up to attempted murder.   

Do you see the difference between what happens with self-inflicted behavior and behavior that endangers the public?   Contagious diseases affect others who have no way of easily avoiding or even knowing if a person is contagious.   

 

[placnx]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Its hard to take anyone seriously that asserts that this virus is not massively infectious. You're just wrong.

 

On the non vaccine herd immunity thing its a mass murderous and idiotic policy choice but guess who's for it?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/14/herd-immunity-barrington-declaration/

I saw a BBC World News Global Questions discussion last weekend in which two experts, one - chief scientist of WHO, the other - Sunetra Gupta, an Oxford epidemiologist and an author of the Great Barrington Declaration, debated the concept proposed by the latter - to isolate vulnerable people and let the young go about their lives.

 

In light of emerging evidence that, after infection, immunity may not be long lasting and that we are still discovering the long-term debilitating complications of Covid, even on the young, it is extremely irresponsible of Gupta to present "herd immunity" by mass infection as a viable solution and to suggest that lockdown is the only alternative. Obviously there are many possibilities short of lockdown, as has been demonstrated very well where rapid testing was deployed early on.

 

FYI This is the Great Barrington Declaration: https://gbdeclaration.org/

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Nout said:

Flu is permanent. It hasn't gone away.  Covid will never go away.  TB hasn't gone away neither will Covid.

Your post has nothing to do with what I was replying to with my post. My post was about masks and distancing being needed. I estimate about two years for that.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, placnx said:

I saw a BBC World News Global Questions discussion last weekend in which two experts, one - chief scientist of WHO, the other - Sunetra Gupta, an Oxford epidemiologist and an author of the Great Barrington Declaration, debated the concept proposed by the latter - to isolate vulnerable people and let the young go about their lives.

 

In light of emerging evidence that, after infection, immunity may not be long lasting and that we are still discovering the long-term debilitating complications of Covid, even on the young, it is extremely irresponsible of Gupta to present "herd immunity" by mass infection as a viable solution and to suggest that lockdown is the only alternative. Obviously there are many possibilities short of lockdown, as has been demonstrated very well where rapid testing was deployed early on.

 

FYI This is the Great Barrington Declaration: https://gbdeclaration.org/

 

Yes I certainly agree that there other approaches other than "total lockdown forever" and letting the virus run through the population unchecked. This entire herd immunity without a vaccine needs to be totally crushed. Its basically mass murder,  it would be impossible to effectively shield the high risk population, and it also won't work as well as the vaccine path.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Jingthing

[TeaMonkey]

Immunity may not be long lasting?

 

This has been going on since the start of the year. More than 38 million people worldwide have been infected with the coronavirus, and so far five of those cases have been confirmed by scientists to be reinfections.

A recent study showed antibodies had provided at least 7 months immunity in the individuals tested and the scientists thought they would provide at least 2 years protection.

And thats even if your body needs to produce antibodies. For most people this virus is so harmless their innate immune system can deal with it.  

[AndrewMciver]

On 10/15/2020 at 11:31 PM, scammed said:

eventually, everyone will copy sweden and move on

as it was a year ago, but its bitter and humiliating

for politicians around the world to admit they committed high treason on their own country, so its going to take quite some time yet

 

SWEDEN - needleslyy killed more people than it's neighbouring countries like Norway, Denmark by a country mile.

 

SWEDEN - one of the highest death rates in the world. 

 

SWEDEN - whose economy is wrecked, a fall of GDP by 10% on par with the worst hit countries because people are too afraid too come out and low consumer confidence. 

 

SWEDEN - who has one big city with a population of 900,000 but a huge land mass. Compared to London with a population close to 10 million. 

 

SWEDEN - who government has massive low approval ratings and have no chance of staying in power. 

 

SWEDEN - where it is estimated only 25% of their population have the virus and thus no herd immunity.

 

SWEDEN - who believed in herd immunity, but the WHO are now saying immunity may only last 6 months to a year. Will Sweden repeat the herd immunity concept next year?

 

SWEDEN - who closed down schools, shut down bars, and many shops voluntarily closed as people were not coming.

 

DON'T BE LIKE SWEDEN.