Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[david555]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Sorry, my ego has nothing to do with anything, I don't understand the main part of your post for an "accurate" reply....Try again...

You have to do it with this chap...

 

It is even not important for me you understand it as that would not change your thinking way ...

,  important is that you finally close the door behind you and go enjoy your brexit and stop trying full membership with no pay as a non member third country

 

Wont work 

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

Multiple off topic bickering posts and replies have been removed

[transam]

16 minutes ago, david555 said:

You have to do it with this chap...

 

It is even not important for me you understand it as that would not change your thinking way ...

,  important is that you finally close the door behind you and go enjoy your brexit and stop trying full membership with no pay as a non member third country

 

Wont work 

 

 

 

But it seems you cannot close the door, you are a Belgian chap posting about Brexit here near every day, just posting doom and gloom in the now free British direction. 

Of course that is your prerogative as a TVF member. 

 

But, I don't think you understand what Brexit is about for me and many others, and that is, we do not want to be part of your 'family' any more, we want to be friends, just like in our own individual daily lives, but we want that by moving back into our own home, which means our land and sea borders.

 

The EU is stamping its feet at our departure, which is very clear with the threats they are handing out, those gestures just point out to us all what the EU is really about, and for sure doesn't surprise me one bit. 

You can keep your future U.S. of G., enjoy it...

[david555]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

But it seems you cannot close the door, you are a Belgian chap posting about Brexit here near every day, just posting doom and gloom in the now free British direction. 

Of course that is your prerogative as a TVF member. 

 

But, I don't think you understand what Brexit is about for me and many others, and that is, we do not want to be part of your 'family' any more, we want to be friends, just like in our own individual daily lives, but we want that by moving back into our own home, which means our land and sea borders.

 

The EU is stamping its feet at our departure, which is very clear with the threats they are handing out, those gestures just point out to us all what the EU is really about, and for sure doesn't surprise me one bit. 

You can keep your future U.S. of G., enjoy it...

The only wise words today ????

 

"Of course that is your prerogative as a TVF member. "

 

And as you U.K.brexiteers pulled us E.U. in that....so we reply here untill you are gone out of the doorway ????

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

but we want that by moving back into our own home, which means our land and sea borders.

Seems fair at the first sight.

But as everything has a price,  your government is prepared to lease/rent its land and sea to others, but at the right price and conditions. 

These nationalists outcry is just a snapshot, because you haven't obtain yet what you want. 

This is a matter of politics/business en vogue worldwide. 

I would be very surprised the U.K. would handle differently than all other countries in that matter. 

 

[Hi from France]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

While Gove was praising the EU for wanting to continue the talks Downing street was telling the world "No we are still in the huff and dont want to talk".

Seriously. Just when you think Brexit cannot get more shambolic the Brexit fundamentalists pull off another stunning act of stupidity. 

This is clearly reckless from the UK to again hinder negotiations considering the situation, anyway there are two important things here we might discuss 

• Remember the article I shared with you on the inside of the UE negotiating team? The very nature of the UE is negotiating with neighbours and in this situation with huge stakes, the EU will always try to negotiate and conduct very rigorous negotiations. 
• Now for this forum, the question is : will our forum members who pretend the EU side is the one blocking the negotiations take this information or go on with the "evil empire" rhetoric? 

 

Important fact : the EU will always be available to fix whatever can still be fixed. Now and in the years to come. 

 

And the deal on the table is indeed very attractive. Right now, the UK is selling the EU the most expensive cod ever I'd say. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Hi from France

[Hi from France]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Do you have a link to Goves quote, I'm sure he said more than that, if he ever said it at all.

I believe you will find either the transcript or the video on the website of the UK parliament (which is well made, you can also access public hearings which are more in-depth). 

 

You can find highlights on YouTube (the guardian, sky news). 

 

Now the real issue here is this government: given the amount of disorder, you will find "tout et son contraire" (everything and it's opposite).

 

One of the men in power will make an announce, and then another will say the opposite. Sometimes the same person will contradict himself. 

 

To me, this is very un-British. I used to be in relation with extremely articulate people in Britain. These last years, UK governance has been worse and worse

[transam]

43 minutes ago, david555 said:

The only wise words today ????

 

"Of course that is your prerogative as a TVF member. "

 

And as you U.K.brexiteers pulled us E.U. in that....so we reply here untill you are gone out of the doorway ????

We are gone out of the doorway.....????

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

stop trying full membership with no pay as a non member third country

That's not what we want.

 

We'd like a simple, mutually beneficial FTA, similar to the one they already gave to Canada. But if the EU is still sulking and crying about being rejected by Britain then that's fine, we'll go WTO.

 

The price the EU currently wants for an FTA is way too high. If the price is too high, it's always best to walk away. Especially if it's the EU offering the sky high price, because they have proved themselves to be a bunch of charlatans, no better than conmen and shysters with their pathetic bait and switch tactics. The British people and the British government are sick of their nonsense. Roll on 31 December.

[Mavideol]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

because they have proved themselves to be a bunch of charlatans,

because they don't give to the UK what the UK wants you call them charlatans.... do you have kids? if so when they asked you for something and you declined their request, did you ever wonder what they may have called you .... 555 maybe not charlatan

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

because they don't give to the UK what the UK wants you call them charlatans.... do you have kids? if so when they asked you for something and you declined their request, did you ever wonder what they may have called you .... 555 maybe not charlatan

I think if my children ever asked me if they could decimate the UKs fishing waters I'm afraid I would have to say no also.

[bannork]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Thanks for the link but I cannot find anywhere the quote you mentioned, would you mind highlighting it. I'm suspecting though that he never said it, would that be a fair conclusion. Just to remind you you quoted Mr Gove saying  "No we are still in the huff and dont want to talk".

The nearest quote I can see from your link is Gove saying "Even while I have been at the dispatch box it has been reported that there has been a constructive move on the part of the EU and I welcome that … obviously we need to work on the basis of the proposed intensification they propose. And I prefer to look forward in optimism than look back in anger.”

 

He said Downing St was in a huff, perhaps referring to the comment telling the EU rep not to bother coming to London for talks.

On Marr's programme, Gove said the door to further talks was not closed, it was ajar. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

He said Downing St was in a huff, perhaps referring to the comment telling the EU rep not to bother coming to London for talks.

On Marr's programme, Gove said the door to further talks was not closed, it was ajar. 

I think you have missed a bit out after.............. "London for talks".....????

[david555]

25 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That's not what we want.

 

We'd like a simple, mutually beneficial FTA, similar to the one they already gave to Canada. But if the EU is still sulking and crying about being rejected by Britain then that's fine, we'll go WTO.

 

The price the EU currently wants for an FTA is way too high. If the price is too high, it's always best to walk away. Especially if it's the EU offering the sky high price, because they have proved themselves to be a bunch of charlatans, no better than conmen and shysters with their pathetic bait and switch tactics. The British people and the British government are sick of their nonsense. Roll on 31 December.

At last...

???????? ????

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, bannork said:

He said Downing St was in a huff, perhaps referring to the comment telling the EU rep not to bother coming to London for talks.

On Marr's programme, Gove said the door to further talks was not closed, it was ajar. 

"No we are still in the huff and dont want to talk". This is what he quoted, the clues in the quotation marks. I asked if he could provide source for his quote, is it wrong to question someones quote?

[JonnyF]

35 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

because they don't give to the UK what the UK wants you call them charlatans.... do you have kids? if so when they asked you for something and you declined their request, did you ever wonder what they may have called you .... 555 maybe not charlatan

No, I call them Charlatans because they promised to act in good faith towards a FTA and then subsequently made continued control over the UK via level playing field, state aid, control of our waters and the jurisdiction of the ECJ a prerequisite of said FTA. 

 

I call them Charlatans because they threatened to use the WA to cut off NI from the rest of the UK.

 

They are Conmen. No better than a taxi driver that promises to take you to the Wat just to get you in the car and then once he has your money tells you it's closed today and takes you to the gold shop.  

 

Shyster would probably a more accurate description though.

[Tofer]

15 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Your United Kingdom does not appear to be very united though does it?

In fact your only method of currently keeping the UK together is to refuse people a democratic vote on whether they want to stay in the union.

Now the last union I can remember which adopted the same policy was the USSR. 

I presume you're referring to Scotland - they already had one! In case you don't remember, they voted to remain in the UK. Or do you want to keep having them until you get the result that satisfies you. 555

[Hi from France]

56 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

We'd like a simple, mutually beneficial FTA, similar to the one they already gave to Canada. 

please read again my previous post on Canada: the short negotiation format imposed by the UK makes a Canada deal impossible. The CETA started 2004 ended in 2010

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement

 

To kickoff a Canada FTA the UK negotiation team would need to pragmatically set up the timeframe and DO IT 

 

another issue : to negotiate such a deal you need a big competent team of experts, and sadly these competences are not here.

 

You all remember the opening of the negotiations. The UE team arrives after extensive preparation and ready, while the UK team arrives with a big smile having done nothing

 

I guess the UK will go on complaining about it, but there can be no Canada deal, whatever Boris Johnson wants you to believe.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Hi from France

[vogie]

Now Mr Macron is threatening an embargo on the UKs energy supplies to the EU if he doesn't get total control of British waters. So does it come as any surprise when Brexiteers say that France and Germany have total say in what goes on in these talks. And why are the Euros so surprised when we say that he EU are not negotiating in good faith, it seems to me that Mr Barnier has no imput to these talks what-so-ever. "Charlatons" is an understatement, gangsters would be more appropiate.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1349210/Brexit-news-Emmanuel-Macron-France-fisheries-energy-blockade-threat-EU-punishment-vn

 

 

[Tofer]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Yes, and when we Remainers told you that the promises made by Vote.Leave were impossible, all you did was bleat Cummings' mantra 'Project Fear, Project Fear.'

 

All that is still current, and will remain so until we either agree a trade deal with the EU or hit the iceberg of no deal and descend into the depths of WTO terms.

Just seen the pound has gone up, on the news of a no deal - dreadful news.....

[Hi from France]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Now Mr Macron is threatening an embargo

You know these English tabloids are absolute <deleted> do you? 

 

Nowadays, even taking serious sources, it's very complicated to sort out lies from the truth.

 

 

...But if you start with a <deleted> source, there is no way ...

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

You know these English tabloids are absolute <deleted> do you? 

 

Nowadays, even taking serious sources, it's very complicated to sort out lies from the truth.

 

 

...But if you start with a <deleted> source, there is no way ...

Eeeeeeer, your remainers are continually using two lefty (deleted) rags, day in, day out........????

[Tofer]

12 hours ago, Hi from France said:

If you say something, just do what you say, if you sign a treaty, then abide by your word. If you don't want a treaty just don't sign... 

That's rich coming from a European.

 

I saw a twitter message today from Michael Charles, (Oct 4th 2018) saying that a Canada +++ style deal was on the table, and will always be an available option. Is that the same EU that now chooses to ignore the terms requiring negotiations in good faith and respect for the UK's sovereignty, and states that a Canada style deal is not an option - anymore?

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The British people and the British government are sick of their nonsense.

As per now  the British government has a particular attitude towards the E.U..

This attitude may change if it obtain what it wants from the E.U..

 

The British people has expressed their opinion about Brexit 4 years ago.

What their  opinion is about the actual Brexit situation is unknown,

and thus open to speculations.

There are some polls about it,

the results  are accepted or disputed, 

based on each own opinion of the matter.

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

As per now  the British government has a particular attitude towards the E.U..

This attitude may change if it obtain what it wants from the E.U..

 

The British people has expressed their opinion about Brexit 4 years ago.

What their  opinion is about the actual Brexit situation is unknown,

and thus open to speculations.

There are some polls about it,

the results  are accepted or disputed, 

based on each own opinion of the matter.

 

 

Read up on the recent general election that was called to sort that out Brexit.

Boris had a landslide victory, something the remainers are still smarting over and don't mention.... 

[Rookiescot]

42 minutes ago, Tofer said:

I presume you're referring to Scotland - they already had one! In case you don't remember, they voted to remain in the UK. Or do you want to keep having them until you get the result that satisfies you. 555

And we will have another one.

Looking forward to it or does the fear of losing mean you will simply try to refuse to allow one?

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

But as everything has a price,  your government is prepared to lease/rent its land and sea to others, but at the right price and conditions. 

Ah, but you're missing the whole point. It will be OUR right, OUR price and OUR conditions - not the EU's 

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Read up on the recent general election that was called to sort that out Brexit.

Boris had a landslide victory, something the remainers are still smarting over and don't mention.... 

Yeah first past the post.

Fantastic democratic system of voting that is. 

In Hollyrood we have a far better system which means you have to actually get over 50% of the votes to get even a small majority.

[luckyluke]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

Read up on the recent general election that was called to sort that out Brexit.

Boris had a landslide victory, something the remainers are still smarting over and don't mention.... 

You are correct about the feeling of the people on 12 December 2019.

I have no idea what it is actually, 10 months later.

Neither what it will be, lets say in June 2021, 6 months after 31 December 2020.

 

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And we will have another one.

Looking forward to it or does the fear of losing mean you will simply try to refuse to allow one?

Highly doubtful you get another one within the next 15 years, but even if you get another one and win it will be 1-1. We'd need a tiebreaker to be sure. 

 

Or will you apply the same logic that Remainers applied to Brexit when they were pushing for a "people's vote" second referendum i.e. as soon as they finally win one then THAT is the result that counts and the people must accept it and stop voting.????