Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Because most of the time a vote for the Lib dems is a wasted vote.

Yes but they would have cancelled Brexit, just what you guys wanted, guess you didn't want it as much as the remainers claimed. And of course nothing to do with Labour who voted againgst anything the Tories voted for.

Whoops forgot, I've been ostrasized.????

[Rookiescot]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The only relevant law is Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. In March 2017 A50 was triggered. In March 2019 the nominal 2 year nominal time limit for exit 'arrangements' to be made was up and the EU was free to say "on yer bike". But they didn't, did they? 

No the EU did not throw us out because the UK kept begging for more time.

Suspect if Johnson does not re-engage with the trade talks soon they will be tempted to say "OK on your way".

[welovesundaysatspace]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The only relevant law is Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. In March 2017 A50 was triggered. In March 2019 the nominal 2 year nominal time limit for exit 'arrangements' to be made was up and the EU was free to say "on yer bike". But they didn't, did they? 

You are right, they could have denied the UK‘s requests for extensions. 

[CG1 Blue]

12 hours ago, Hi from France said:

please scroll back to one my first messages here

 

you have the words of a negociator and a link to a Guardian article. I consider the Guardian is a reliable source as well as other major newspapers... Now I'm sure you can find many tabloids, as well as some british politician to repeat ad nauseam the UE is some kind of Star Wars-like evil empire. But it's a bit more complicated than that.

 

 

Now, I think you need to analyse by yourself and make up your mind, for me I gave sources explaining what is a Canada deal and what the brits should do if they really want one

 

In reality, I think the brits cannot negociate a Canade deal and they know it 

 

Britain would need two things for a Canada deal

1/ time : This sector-by sector process is very long. 4 years is not absurd, though I guess it's possible to speed thing up if you have...

... 2/ expertise and manpower : the brits used to have the best diplomacy in the world (which was indeed very very very impressive).

 

Now the british experts either

1. are Ok with earning little money and work for the country and the civil service (like Sir Ivan Rogers or Kim Darroch, "Baron Darroch of Kew"). But Boris Johnson or event Theresa May sacked them. They are as British as can be but, plainly said how disastrous brexit is. So all these guys and a lot of top british civil servants have left. Dominic Cummings hates these civil servant  (you know of David Lidington).
2. prefer to be consultants and earn much more. You know the british civil service is now "downsized" and "lean" and needs a lots of consultants. So to get the expertise it need, the UK goverment is paying huge bills

beside the hefty cost, consultants will tell you what you want to hear and maximise their fees; It's their business, it's normal to expect that.

 

 

So if common sense drives you to recognize a Canada deal will not appear out of thin are, you can also admit that whatever british politicians tell in public, they know perfectly well Britain cannot afford a Canada deal; It will not go on paying EU membership fees four more years and it cannot gather the expertise needed.

 

 

note that the EU can negociate a Canada deal: it has the expertise, the money, and by the way it already negociated CETA (it took 9 years, not counting raticafication by all EU members). I concede the UE is not very enthusiast about that either though, hence what Barnier said.

 

worse than that, CETA took 9 years, but it was easier because Canada is very far away and trade is very limited compared to UK-EU trade... Britain has some very competitive sectors, like the Pharmaceutical industry : it is world-class and the UE would certainly like to protect its own interests... this process is now ongoing since the EU "Agence européenne des médicaments", the European Medicines Agency left London for Amsterdam (whatever Gove says not leading the UE on Medicines anymore is a huge loss for Britain). 

 

 

 

I have no more time, but on the topic of expertise comparing Michel Barnier and David Frost is very cruel, and explains a lots of the things we see know... 

That's a very long way of saying "no, I don't have any proof".  

[transam]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

 

Exhibit A your honor. 

The prosecution rests.

Then you tell me, why that at the last GE, the Lib Dems promised the 48% Brexit remain, and those Brexiteers that may have changed their mind, a 100% remain in the EU, YET, in the GE, voters left the Labour Party and the Lib Dems in their droves.... 

Now to anyone with half a brain would realise that the populace voted for Boris to get Brexit done....

Can you explain...?

[Sheryl]

Posts containing childish baiting and flaming have been removed.

 

And further and their authors may find themselves removed as well. 

 

 

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

PS: I personally find it's even almost time to " KICK you out" ???? …..enough is enough!! , "rien ne vas plus..." =

A bit late for that, since we launched article 50 and, I might say, the EU together with the treacherous b.....ds like Ian Blackford, Bercow and Starmer colluding with the EU to interfere with a democratic decision, contradicts your opinion of the true situation.

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, polpott said:

Same reasons, their leader was a disaster who subsequently resigned.

She didn't resign, she lost her seat in the election, i.e. she was kicked out.

[nauseus]

47 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No the EU did not throw us out because the UK kept begging for more time.

Suspect if Johnson does not re-engage with the trade talks soon they will be tempted to say "OK on your way".

Not the point - again - my post was was to demonstrate that the EU could have finished with us 18 months ago if they had wanted to.

Edited October 21, 2020 by nauseus
us for is innit?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Tofer said:

She didn't resign, she lost her seat in the election, i.e. she was kicked out.

Yes, the "key" to the remainers wishes was trounced, 100% proof the voters wanted Brexit done, yet remainers here are dodging the question...WHY.....

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

And which party is Teresa May in?

Not Boris Johnsons!

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Because most of the time a vote for the Lib dems is a wasted vote.

Nah, you were too busy championing Mrs. Krankie, to really care about Brexit.

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not the point - again - my post was was to demonstrate that the EU could have finished with us 18 months ago if they had wanted to.

So did the UK, of course. And, unlike the EU, they could have done and still could do so at every point in the process I believe. 

[Tofer]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

So did the UK, of course. And, unlike the EU, they could have done and still could do so at every point in the process I believe. 

They could have done, with one exception, the process was being managed and manipulated by a bunch of remainers, until Boris got hold of the reigns.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

So did the UK, of course. And, unlike the EU, they could have done and still could do so at every point in the process I believe. 

If both were to respect A50 then the same conditions applied to both the EU and the UK.

[Tofer]

I vote for a US Logan style Act, then we can hang Krankies treacherous lap dog, Blackford.

[david555]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Well David, whatever your personal desire, it is quite obvioius from the last 4 years' antics that the EU have had opposite hopes. The EU has tried all and any means to actually keep the UK in. If the EU had genuinely wanted to kick us out they could have done so easily and legally, 18 months ago. I am starting to agree with you, though.

I agree with you for the ( idle ...) hopes of keeping a leaving member in their organisation.....i am quicker a realist ...

BUT contrary also on  your U.K. hopes of getting the dream deal , they also were trying to long their hopes ...and i told always and keep saying  THEY WONT GIVE IN .... and STILL WILL NOT DO NOW ! for several reasons ....comparing that it is better to loose a finger than your hand or arm (euphimism)....as that would happen if they give on their principals ....if you like them or not , as it would treaten their future  existance ...

 

That is why i call it a draw, and the No deal must happen to go on with both sides economy's 

 

Standing on a crosroad with several streets ...must pick one to find out it was the right one ...or would never know it was the right one  ????

[david555]

26 minutes ago, Tofer said:

A bit late for that, since we launched article 50 and, I might say, the EU together with the treacherous b.....ds like Ian Blackford, Bercow and Starmer colluding with the EU to interfere with a democratic decision, contradicts your opinion of the true situation.

The kicking out was meant as sarcastic euphimism ...

We all get tyred of just standstill...????

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

I agree with you for the ( idle ...) hopes of keeping a leaving member in their organisation.....i am quicker a realist ...

BUT contrary also on  your U.K. hopes of getting the dream deal , they also were trying to long their hopes ...and i told always and keep saying  THEY WONT GIVE IN .... and STILL WILL NOT DO NOW ! for several reasons ....comparing that it is better to loose a finger than your hand or arm (euphimism)....as that would happen if they give on their principals ....if you like them or not , as it would treaten their future  existance ...

 

That is why i call it a draw, and the No deal must happen to go on with both sides economy's 

 

Standing on a crosroad with several streets ...must pick one to find out it was the right one ...or would never know it was the right one  ????

Thanks. I was never hopeful of getting a 'dream deal' out of the EU though.

[Tofer]

6 minutes ago, david555 said:

We all get tyred of just standstill...????

Certainly are - roll on January 1st 2021. I think we all agree on that. I'm sure even the remainers will be glad to see a conclusion to this sorry fiasco.

 

I'm sure we can all be friends again, when the EU's demise is complete in a few years.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Tofer

[david555]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah thank goodness that Johnson came up with his cunning North Korea + deal.

My laughing emoticon is really to laugh with that very funny remark .????

..as too many that emoticon is used in different way ????

[david555]

9 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Certainly are - roll on January 1st 2021. I think we all agree on that. I'm sure even the remainers will be glad to see a conclusion to this sorry fiasco.

 

I'm sure we can all be friends again, when the EU's demise is complete in a few years.

Yeah ! we E.U. shall start the survival food packages very soon for you .????

 

Double ones for the 48% ????

Edited October 21, 2020 by david555

[Hi from France]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

Quote

We all get tired of just standstill...

Certainly are - roll on January 1st 2021. I think we all agree on that. I'm sure even the remainers will be glad to see a conclusion to this sorry fiasco.

 

well I was bad news, for you. 

 

Brexit is far from over, it does not matter whether we have the thin deal on offer or "no deal".  The situation is unsustainable and the blame game, as well as negotiations need to go on for like 10 years.

 

 

Right now, in Europe Brexit is considered quite done and over (you need to take part in british forums to discuss the topic!).

 

But in the UK it's a hot topic, for many reasons (future of the UK industry, future of the Union...) and there is no way these problems are solved anytime soon.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

well I was bad news, for you. 

 

Brexit is far from over, it does not matter whether we have the thin deal on offer or "no deal".  The situation is unsustainable and the blame game, as well as negotiations need to go on for like 10 years.

 

 

Right now, in Europe Brexit is considered quite done and over (you need to take part in british forums to discuss the topic!).

 

But in the UK it's a hot topic, for many reasons (future of the UK industry, future of the Union...) and there is no way these problems are solved anytime soon.

That poop seems rather self-contradictory to say the least.

[Tofer]

30 minutes ago, david555 said:

Yeah ! we E.U. shall start the survival food packages very soon for you .????

 

Double ones for the 48% ????

Very kind. What would we do without you... Mine's fish & chips please.

[david555]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

Very kind. What would we do without you... Mine's fish & chips please.

Chips no problem , the fish however is a problem as told to us no fish anymore for us in supply ...., pigg however in oversupplies ????

[Tofer]

28 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

well I was bad news, for you. 

 

Brexit is far from over, it does not matter whether we have the thin deal on offer or "no deal".  The situation is unsustainable and the blame game, as well as negotiations need to go on for like 10 years.

 

 

Right now, in Europe Brexit is considered quite done and over (you need to take part in british forums to discuss the topic!).

 

But in the UK it's a hot topic, for many reasons (future of the UK industry, future of the Union...) and there is no way these problems are solved anytime soon.

We'll be an overnight success, and the EU will be a forgotten bad memory, until it fades into oblivion. 

 

I don't know why people talk about the blame game, it's totally irrelevant, either make a deal or don't, simple.

[JonnyF]

46 minutes ago, david555 said:

Yeah ! we E.U. shall start the survival food packages very soon for you .????

 

Double ones for the 48% ????

I think the EU will be needing those food packages.????

 

Besides, given the way Germany banned the export of masks to other EU countries at the height of COVID, I highly doubt they'll be sending anything to the UK even if needed it (which we won't).

 

Funny how all these EU countries quickly reverted to the concept of the nation state when the chips were down. But of course, they're all one big happy federalist family aren't they ????.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-09/germany-faces-backlash-from-neighbors-over-mask-export-ban

 

 

One big happy family!

 

[vinny41]

55 minutes ago, david555 said:

Yeah ! we E.U. shall start the survival food packages very soon for you .????

 

Double ones for the 48% ????

And maybe quadruple survival food packages for the 3.5-4 million EU nationals living in the UK, maybe they could paint their bodies in the flag of the EU so it easy for the EU cargo planes to identify them during the airdrop

Just may sure the UK have been paid 1st.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by vinny41
typo

[transam]

58 minutes ago, david555 said:

Yeah ! we E.U. shall start the survival food packages very soon for you .????

 

Double ones for the 48% ????

That's nice, happy to hear an EU bloke returning the gesture ......