Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, transam said:

I had my own boat used on the English Channel.....I have also been to many EU countries in my time, but I was referring to which side of the channel you would have been on with a gun regarding your Dunkirk spirit.....????

Bringing migrants over were you?

I have already demonstrated which side I would have been on by serving in the British army. Can you say the same?

Although to be honest if I had been around at the time of Dunkirk I would probably have been in the 51st Highland division.

You know who they were? They were the guys who were sacrificed so the English troops could escape. Deliberately chosen because it meant the Times obituary column would not look too bad.  

[nauseus]

29 minutes ago, david555 said:

U.K. Short of money....they need taking of from those already low pensions ...old people are easy victims....

 

U.K. has heaps of money - our national bank can make as much as we need.

[Kwasaki]

On 10/17/2020 at 6:28 AM, Matzzon said:

Yes, it seems like no one is caring about what Mr, Johnson is saying, which at least show some intelligence somewhere in the leadership of Britain.

This is a total moron, that do not understand that he can not go against his peoples wishes. I guess the common citizen of the UK is going to have to change much of their daily life, just because ne person have a bad brain.

And someone like you could better, that's for the joke post. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

You have obviously never experienced the stinging pain of a wet haddock.

How was it? I will listen. 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

You have obviously never experienced the stinging pain of a wet haddock.

Does it involve having to shout "Thank you mistress may I have another?" ????

[nauseus]

49 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Bringing migrants over were you?

I have already demonstrated which side I would have been on by serving in the British army. Can you say the same?

Although to be honest if I had been around at the time of Dunkirk I would probably have been in the 51st Highland division.

You know who they were? They were the guys who were sacrificed so the English troops could escape. Deliberately chosen because it meant the Times obituary column would not look too bad.  

 

I read about this a few years ago. The 51st were far from Dunkirk in support of the French, probably in the hope that Scots grit would rub off on the French and keep them fighting (didn't work of course). From more searching about this just now, then your 'Times obituary column' allegation is nonsense. So a link would be great.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Does it involve having to shout "Thank you mistress may I have another?" ????

 

That would be the Eurostar fish to Britannia, yes.

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

How was it? I will listen. 

 

Your ears would be ringing too much.

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I read about this a few years ago. The 51st were far from Dunkirk in support of the French, probably in the hope that Scots grit would rub off on the French and keep them fighting (didn't work of course). From more searching about this just now, then your 'Times obituary column' allegation is nonsense. So a link would be great.

Aye you are right. My mistake. The 51st were to the south and not particularly involved in Dunkirk other than keep German troops busy.

The Coldstream Guards were thrown into the heaviest fighting in order to plug a gap which was being exploited.

 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Aye you are right. My mistake. The 51st were to the south and not particularly involved in Dunkirk other than keep German troops busy.

The Coldstream Guards were thrown into the heaviest fighting in order to plug a gap which was being exploited.

 

 

Thanks. I saw some old VDO interviews with some of the survivors - they couldn't believe they were captured but didn't complain, of course. Respect.  

[stag4]

The 51st Highland division were falling back to the French coast where they were to be evacuated at Dieppe, but the rapidly approaching Germans cut them off, so a decision was made to evacuate them at a little fishing town called Saint Valery.  However events overtook them, the Navy ships could not come inshore due to fog and the German advance. The 51st put up valiant defence but were forced to surrender on the 12th June 1940 as the situation was hopeless and they had run out of food and ammunition.

Churchill sacrificing the division is nonsence. 

[david555]

56 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

U.K. has heaps of money - our national bank can make as much as we need.

So they just like to squize some very old fokes for TV licence ....

Lovely bunch of U.K. conservatives gov. you have ...

Nice....very social

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, david555 said:

So they just like to squize some very old fokes for TV licence ....

Lovely bunch of U.K. conservatives gov. you have ...

Nice....very social

Not nice, if true, but still Foxtrot Alpha to do with with EU trade talks. 

[Loiner]

49 minutes ago, david555 said:

So they just like to squize some very old fokes for TV licence ....

Lovely bunch of U.K. conservatives gov. you have ...

Nice....very social

The UK TV licence has been with us since 1946. During that time there have been various labour governments, none of whom did anything to abolish the fees.

In 2015 the government told the BBC they were responsible for the over 75s, plus had to find savings of £800 million by 2021/22. The bastion of left wing meeja jobs and luvvies favourite decided not to subsidise the over 75s unless they are in receipt of pension credits. Meanwhile the overtly biased anti-government Beeb continues to pay its executives and 'talent' excessive salaries while pandering to the views of left wing talking heads like Gary Lineker and non-entities of any creed or colour so long as they are not white male.

[7by7]

22 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Cameron was not part of the Leave campaign but at least he was open about what leaving the EU meant. Everyone who had any idea about the "four pillars" had had plenty of to be aware of that. 

 Yes he was open about what leaving the EU meant; as was the rest of the remain campaign.

 

It was Cummings, Johnson, Gove and the rest of Vote.Leave who called that openness "Project Fear" and lied about the effects of Brexit such as losing access to the single market. See posts passim quoting them.

[7by7]

22 hours ago, Loiner said:

Leavers did not want the Single Market, so only in Cameron's mind was it a warning. It was all encouragement to Leavers. We still don't want it, due to the unacceptable baggage quoted above, that it brings.  That's why we voted to Leave and still want No Deal to preclude any of those EU pillars.

 Leavers did not want the single market?

 

Really?

 

If leavers didn't want to maintain access to the single market why did Vote.Leave, including Gove and Johnson, go to such pains to persuade voters that leaving the EU would not mean losing access to the single market?

 

Why did they call Cameron's warning "Project Fear?"

 

[RayC]

37 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The UK TV licence has been with us since 1946. During that time there have been various labour governments, none of whom did anything to abolish the fees.

 

37 minutes ago, Loiner said:

In 2015 the government told the BBC they were responsible for the over 75s, plus had to find savings of £800 million by 2021/22. The bastion of left wing meeja jobs and luvvies favourite decided not to subsidise the over 75s unless they are in receipt of pension credits. Meanwhile the overtly biased anti-government Beeb continues to pay its executives and 'talent' excessive salaries while pandering to the views of left wing talking heads like Gary Lineker and non-entities of any creed or colour so long as they are not white male.

 

The call to abolish the licence fee comes mainly from Tory backbenchers who'd like to see the BBC shut down.

 

Free TV licences for the over-75s were introduced by the Labour government in 2000, and was a policy that was widely lauded.

 

The withdrawing of some funding from the BBC in 2015 was just a petty, vindictive political move by Cameron, in what was a (failed) attempt to appease some neo-con Tory backbenchers.

[7by7]

13 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Its strange given that 4 million of your fellow Europeans still prefer to live in the UK rather than living in the land of milk and honey called the EU

 It's actually 3.6 million; but even if it were 4 million that's just 0.9% of the population of the EU.

 

Whereas 1.3 million Brits, 1.9% of the UK population, live in the EU.

 

Proportionately, more Brits choose to live in the EU than EU nationals choose to live in the UK.

[vinny41]

38 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 It's actually 3.6 million; but even if it were 4 million that's just 0.9% of the population of the EU.

 

Whereas 1.3 million Brits, 1.9% of the UK population, live in the EU.

 

Proportionately, more Brits choose to live in the EU than EU nationals choose to live in the UK.

In 2019, according to UN data, 1.3 million people born in the UK lived in EU countries. Spain hosted the largest group, at 302,000, followed by Ireland, with 293,000. France was third with 177,000, Germany was fourth with 99,000 and Italy was fifth with 66,000.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I agree that would be a sensible compromise. The UK wouldn't be able to scale up from it's current levels of infrastructure to fish all of it's waters overnight anyway, so it makes sense for a sovereign UK to tolerate/allow some access from EU fishing boats for a few years until our fishing industry has rebuilt itself after many years of being downtrodden by the EU and their CFP.

 

It wasn't the EU and CFP which caused the decline of the British fishing industry; it was the British fleet owners who sold their licences to foreign owners, the so called quota hoppers. A practice at least allowed, some say encouraged, by the British government who, under the CFP, controlled the issue of licences in UK waters.

 

Propaganda delivered the Brexit vote but it can’t land more fish

Quote

British skippers weren’t denied fair quotas by the EU, Britain let them sell their fishing rights to foreign boats

 

See Privatising the seas: how the UK turned fishing rights into a commodity for the full, sordid story.

 

10 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It would also allow the EU and the Remainers to claim some kind of victory for the EU over the UK, which will please their vindictive little minds and thus edge us closer to a decent trade deal. 

 

Any deal is obviously better than no deal and will be a victory for the UK, not just Remainers. 

 

As for "vindictive little minds;" regular posts here show that description applies more aptly to certain Brexiteers; even though they won!

[7by7]

Duplicate

Edited November 3, 2020 by 7by7

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 Yes he was open about what leaving the EU meant; as was the rest of the remain campaign.

 

It was Cummings, Johnson, Gove and the rest of Vote.Leave who called that openness "Project Fear" and lied about the effects of Brexit such as losing access to the single market. See posts passim quoting them.

 

Cameron, Osborne and the "rest of the remain campaign" were all actively engaged in promoting the original "Project Fear" and leave lies were the key ingredient of that. 

[nauseus]

56 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

It wasn't the EU and CFP which caused the decline of the British fishing industry; it was the British fleet owners who sold their licences to foreign owners, the so called quota hoppers. A practice at least allowed, some say encouraged, by the British government who, under the CFP, controlled the issue of licences in UK waters.

 

Propaganda delivered the Brexit vote but it can’t land more fish

 

See Privatising the seas: how the UK turned fishing rights into a commodity for the full, sordid story.

 

 

Any deal is obviously better than no deal and will be a victory for the UK, not just Remainers. 

 

As for "vindictive little minds;" regular posts here show that description applies more aptly to certain Brexiteers; even though they won!

 

The CFP has been a direct cause of the decline of the British fishing industry. If not for the CFP this quota-hopping would not have been easily possible.

 

A fair deal could be better than no deal but for anything to be reasonably fair then the WA should be revised.

 

FYI any vindictiveness of these Brexit threads over the last 4-5 years was always instaged by remainers but tolerated for a very very long time by leavers.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 Leavers did not want the single market?

 

Really?

 

If leavers didn't want to maintain access to the single market why did Vote.Leave, including Gove and Johnson, go to such pains to persuade voters that leaving the EU would not mean losing access to the single market?

 

Why did they call Cameron's warning "Project Fear?"

 

Leaving the Single Market was never part of 'Project Fear', except for the Remainer votes. For Leavers, getting out of FOM and ECJ etc rules of Single Market  was the reason to Brexit.

Project Fear was all the Remainer nonsense about running out of food, medicines, holidays and the EU owned sky. 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

 

The call to abolish the licence fee comes mainly from Tory backbenchers who'd like to see the BBC shut down.

 

Free TV licences for the over-75s were introduced by the Labour government in 2000, and was a policy that was widely lauded.

 

The withdrawing of some funding from the BBC in 2015 was just a petty, vindictive political move by Cameron, in what was a (failed) attempt to appease some neo-con Tory backbenchers.

 

The call to abolish the licence fee comes from the UK general population.

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

Cameron, Osborne and the "rest of the remain campaign" were all actively engaged in promoting the original "Project Fear" and leave lies were the key ingredient of that. 

 

Every time a remain campaigner warned about the detrimental effects to the UK of leaving the EU, all Vote.Leave could respond with was the Project Fear mantra. Just as they did with regard to the warnings about the single market.

 

As for your last sentence; I totally agree. Vote.Leave's lies about the single market and many other issues been quoted and linked to many times in this and other topics.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

The CFP has been a direct cause of the decline of the British fishing industry. If not for the CFP this quota-hopping would not have been easily possible.

 

It is not just the EU which has fishing quotas; many coastal states do; for example the USA. Without quotas by now there would be no fish left to fish.

 

It is selling licences which allows quota hopping.

 

Whilst we were a member, it was the British government who issued the licences for UK waters.

 

It was the British government which allowed the British licence holders to sell their licences to foreign fleet owners and put their own crews on the dole.

 

As far I can ascertain the British government was the only EU one which did this; but welcome a correction if I am factually wrong.

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

A fair deal could be better than no deal but for anything to be reasonably fair then the WA should be revised.

Then why did Johnson sign the WA and announce it with much glee last January?

 

Was he lying or incompetent when he announced how wonderful it was?

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

FYI any vindictiveness of these Brexit threads over the last 4-5 years was always instaged by remainers but tolerated for a very very long time by leavers.

 Either your memory is playing you false or you are deliberately misrepresenting the reality. 

 

Over the last four years I, for one, have on several occasions been called a traitor by at least two Brexiteers. How many Remainers have called you that?

Edited November 3, 2020 by 7by7

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Leaving the Single Market was never part of 'Project Fear', except for the Remainer votes. For Leavers, getting out of FOM and ECJ etc rules of Single Market  was the reason to Brexit.

 

Then why did Vote.Leave rubbish Cameron's warning?

 

Why did so many prominent Vote.Leave campaigners, including Johnson and Gove, repeatedly claim that access to the single market was not in danger?

 

If you are now saying that you voted to leave the single market  and lose all the other benefits of membership then fair enough; your reasons for your decision were for you to make, of course.

 

But don't try and say that is what Vote.Leave said was going to happen; because they actually said the opposite!

 

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Project Fear was all the Remainer nonsense about running out of food, medicines, holidays and the EU owned sky. 

 

Some over the top predictions were made by some Remain campaigners; true. Some may yet be proven correct if there is no deal such as increased prices for imported food; which we need. It's been a very long time since we could feed ourselves on home produced food alone. Talk to anyone who was alive during the war; food rationing didn't end until 1954! Had food rationing during the Great War until 1920, too.

 

Project Fear was Vote.Leave's response to any warning from the Remain campaign; whether it was over the top or, as is now being proven, real.

[transam]

13 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Bringing migrants over were you?

I have already demonstrated which side I would have been on by serving in the British army. Can you say the same?

Although to be honest if I had been around at the time of Dunkirk I would probably have been in the 51st Highland division.

You know who they were? They were the guys who were sacrificed so the English troops could escape. Deliberately chosen because it meant the Times obituary column would not look too bad.  

1. Well no, I was catching fish actually......

 

2. More tosh from a bitter nationalist..

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

8 hours ago, Loiner said:

Leaving the Single Market was never part of 'Project Fear', except for the Remainer votes. For Leavers, getting out of FOM and ECJ etc rules of Single Market  was the reason to Brexit.