Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[Tofer]

19 minutes ago, david555 said:

I chose the last option ????...., U.K. option looks not to good as i read & hear Sumak  announcement ..waw ! record spending in peace time in 300 years.... i think there is now a Blond guy with serious headache ..... but .... he made his dream .... became PM.????

 

What, there wasn't any covid in the EU. How much was it they are borrowing to fund the consequences of covid?

[Tofer]

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

yes it was such a bad 45 years isn't in the E.U. club ????

Bl..dy awful!

 

I'll never forget the number of prosecutions in UK courts that were overturned by the EUCJ, releasing criminals back onto our streets.

[david555]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

 

What, there wasn't any covid in the EU. How much was it they are borrowing to fund the consequences of covid?

if   my auntie was a man i would call her Uncle .....! ????

 

Even brexit "eventuallity" not IN calculated  .... said by Ski reporter ....

[david555]

5 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Bl..dy awful!

 

I'll never forget the number of prosecutions in UK courts that were overturned by the EUCJ, releasing criminals back onto our streets.

And that is still going on, on your own now ...., that's the lawyers doing.... earning a good money you know  ????

 

Now , no more stabbings or shootings anymore in  U.K. eager London area ...? 

Edited November 26, 2020 by david555

[JonnyF]

24 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

What, there wasn't any covid in the EU. How much was it they are borrowing to fund the consequences of covid?

 

Only 750 Billion Euros. But don't worry, it's not a bailout, it's a "cash injection" ????.

 

Let's see if the EU is stupid enough to keep pressing it's unrealistic demands or just comes back to reality and signs a mutually beneficial FTA with their "friends and partners" in the UK. Now is really not the time for them to try to punish the UK for leaving their protectionist bloc.

[david555]

31 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Only 750 Billion Euros. But don't worry, it's not a bailout, it's a "cash injection" ????.

 

Let's see if the EU is stupid enough to keep pressing it's unrealistic demands or just comes back to reality and signs a mutually beneficial FTA with their "friends and partners" in the UK. Now is really not the time for them to try to punish the UK for leaving their protectionist bloc.

This looks almost as pleading for E.U. mercy ....? ????

[JonnyF]

19 minutes ago, david555 said:

This looks almost as pleading for E.U. mercy ....? ????

 

I think you've misunderstood my attitude towards No Deal.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

 

So what. We were part of the EU when they were established, so they are just as much ours.

I don’t think anyone is claiming a copyright on those deals. I also think it’s the sensible thing to do for the UK to roll-over those existing deals first and then negotiate something more tailored later (as long as they can easily be rolled over and re-negotiated later). 
 

It’s just a bit amusing when Brexiteers celebrate these deals as huge successes when they’re merely an operational workaround and an admission of the fact that the EU actually provided some good benefits and did a lot of things right. 

[7by7]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Yes he negotiated it with Theresa May, the Remainer quisling who colluded with the EU to attempt BRINO and hence was unceremoniously dumped out of office. 

 

When you have the other side colluding with you against their own people, it's a bit easier. Since May was thrown out, he got nothing.

 

If you bothered to look at the two WA's rather than swallow propaganda you would know that there is effectively only one difference between May's and Johnson's.

 

The Northern Ireland Protocol; that's it. So if May's WA was BRINO, then Johnson's is as well!

 

When the EU first suggested a customs border between GB and NI May said that no UK Prime Minister could ever agree to dividing the UK in such a manner. Johnson proved her wrong.

 

As we all know, Johnson has since shown his bad faith by his desire to renege on that part of his WA.

 

How can anyone trust a government which signs an international treaty and then a few months later declares that it's going to ignore it?

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

With all your knowledge, you mean to tell me you aren't aware that the EU are demanding the UK remain under the control of EU laws and regulations after the transition period, the so called "level playing field". Well I'm shocked, something you don't know, that is staring everybody in the face on a daily basis.

 

 

The disproven rumours that come straight from the horses mouth - Michel Barnier, in frequent news reports, DEMANDING a "LEVEL PLAYING FIELD", got it now, or do you still wish to pull the wool over your eyes, because it won't wash with anyone else.

 

I'm sorry if I'm not as techy clever as you, and am not familiar with the process of attaching news reports, but there it is. The facts are not hidden, but clear for everyone to see, without the need for substantiating quotes - oh sorry you don't have any, you just keep trying to turn it back on me.

 

The bill that was made necessary by the EU's nasty devious and vindictive tactics to intervene in the UK's trade between UK & NI, and still are, by the news I've seen only 2 days ago they were again threatening a blockade of UK products to NI.

 

NI is a part of the UK, not the EU.

 

 

Did you fail to read the date on that new law ""2020"", and the statement that the UK take back control after 40 years. Come on, get real.... Did you think I cannot or will not read the link, hoping I will just cave under your spurious facts...

 

 

Again, I did not say we had """SOLD OUT""". please, by all means highlight that statement again, if you wish to prove your point, but this time be a bit less disingenuous and show exactly where I used those words.

 

Oh, sorry you can't..... ????

 

At the end of the day, if you're so enamoured with the EU - you know what to do..... 

 

Tofer, as you are merely repeating your assumptions and false accusations without actually providing any evidence at all to back them up, I see no reason for me to take up even more bandwidth and further bore everyone else by yet again providing  the evidence which proves you wrong and asking you the same questions you have again refused to answer.

 

No doubt in your mind you will see that as some form of false victory.

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Tofer said:

Bl..dy awful!

 

I'll never forget the number of prosecutions in UK courts that were overturned by the EUCJ, releasing criminals back onto our streets.

 

Name one.

 

You can't; because the ECJ has no jurisdiction over a member state's criminal law and courts.

 

"The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) interprets EU law to make sure it is applied in the same way in all EU countries, and settles legal disputes between national governments and EU institutions.

It can also, in certain circumstances, be used by individuals, companies or organisations to take action against an EU institution, if they feel it has somehow infringed their rights." (Source)

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by 7by7
fix link

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

No I'm going to stay right here to remind all you Brexiteers of what it is you have done to the UK.

Weren't your combined 2014 & 2016 sulk-a-thons enough?

[JonnyF]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

If you bothered to look at the two WA's rather than swallow propaganda you would know that there is effectively only one difference between May's and Johnson's.

 

The Northern Ireland Protocol; that's it. So if May's WA was BRINO, then Johnson's is as well!

 

When the EU first suggested a customs border between GB and NI May said that no UK Prime Minister could ever agree to dividing the UK in such a manner. Johnson proved her wrong.

 

As we all know, Johnson has since shown his bad faith by his desire to renege on that part of his WA.

 

How can anyone trust a government which signs an international treaty and then a few months later declares that it's going to ignore it?

Yes the quisling May negotiated it and the anti democratic Remainer parliament made it illegal for Boris to leave without it.

 

Then the Remainers stupidly agreed to an election and got destroyed by the UK electorate. Again. Thank god they were so deluded regarding their support. They shafted themselves, great stuff.

 

Johnson hates the WA (despite improving it) as do most of the electorate. Hopefully he rejects the whole thing, his ratings would soar. I would tear it to shreds and not pay a single penny more of the divorce settlement. It was negotiated by a traitor Remainer colluding with the EU and belongs in the gutter along with May and her ruined, soiled legacy. She should hang her head in shame. A disgrace. An embarrassment to her country.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes the quisling May negotiated it and the anti democratic Remainer parliament made it illegal for Boris to leave without it.

 

Then the Remainers stupidly agreed to an election and got destroyed by the UK electorate. Again. Thank god they were so deluded regarding their support. They shafted themselves, great stuff.

 

Johnson hates the WA (despite improving it) as do most of the electorate. Hopefully he rejects the whole thing, his ratings would soar. I would tear it to shreds and not pay a single penny more of the divorce settlement. It was negotiated by a traitor Remainer colluding with the EU and belongs in the gutter along with May and her ruined, soiled legacy. She should hang her head in shame. A disgrace. An embarrassment to her country.

 

OK then why did he sign it and indeed tout it as being HIS oven ready deal?

[7by7]

25 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes the quisling May negotiated it and the anti democratic Remainer parliament made it illegal for Boris to leave without it.

 

Then the Remainers stupidly agreed to an election and got destroyed by the UK electorate. Again. Thank god they were so deluded regarding their support. They shafted themselves, great stuff.

 

Johnson hates the WA (despite improving it) as do most of the electorate. Hopefully he rejects the whole thing, his ratings would soar. I would tear it to shreds and not pay a single penny more of the divorce settlement. It was negotiated by a traitor Remainer colluding with the EU and belongs in the gutter along with May and her ruined, soiled legacy. She should hang her head in shame. A disgrace. An embarrassment to her country.

 

Nice dodge; but dodge it is.

 

I wont go into the oft repeated Brexiteer contradiction of Remainer May being thwarted by a Remainer Parliament again because I know that will only confuse you.

 

Having won his coup against May and then failed in his attempts to avoid Parliamentary scrutiny of his proposed WA by illegal prorogation, Johnson called a General Election with the promise to 'get Brexit done' with his 'oven ready deal.'

 

He called it HIS oven ready deal, not May's with a few tweaks; HIS. Although as most of us knew, and you now seem to have conceded, in reality it's May's with a few tweaks.

 

If Johnson hates his own WA so much, why did he sign it with such jubilation and self aggrandisement?

 

May did her best and we would have left the EU over a year ago under essentially the same terms as now, except for the customs border down the Irish Sea, but for Johnson's political machinations. It is he and the ERG, not to mention Rees-Mogg, who should hang their heads in shame.

 

Especially as Johnson now wants to renege on an international treaty he signed and announced as a personal triumph less than a year ago!

Edited November 26, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[Bruntoid]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Yes the quisling May negotiated it and the anti democratic Remainer parliament made it illegal for Boris to leave without it.

 

Then the Remainers stupidly agreed to an election and got destroyed by the UK electorate. Again. Thank god they were so deluded regarding their support. They shafted themselves, great stuff.

 

Johnson hates the WA (despite improving it) as do most of the electorate. Hopefully he rejects the whole thing, his ratings would soar. I would tear it to shreds and not pay a single penny more of the divorce settlement. It was negotiated by a traitor Remainer colluding with the EU and belongs in the gutter along with May and her ruined, soiled legacy. She should hang her head in shame. A disgrace. An embarrassment to her country.

A mass of unsubstantiated assumptions evidenced by nothing at all! 
 

Apart from that a very enlightening post

[JonnyF]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

OK then why did he sign it and indeed tout it as being HIS oven ready deal?

Allow me to explain. His choice was sign it or extend again since the Remainer Parliament had made it illegal to leave without it. Geoffrey Cox was right, that Parliament WAS a disgrace undermining the UK at every turn, weakening the hand of it's own country. No doubt you loved it. The Remainer defence at the time was "But Parliament is sovereign" as if that legitimized them screwing over their own electorate.

 

If he was totally honest he'd have said "This May deal is still terrible, but it's the only way we can get out so let's suck it up and just get out". However, May is still a Tory and Johnson is still a politician so he tried to dress it up. We all knew it was a terrible deal for the UK. Let's hope we don't make the same mistake in the next month and get out with No Deal at the end of December.

[JonnyF]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

May did her best and we would have left the EU over a year ago under essentially the same terms as now, except for the customs border down the Irish Sea, but for Johnson's political machinations. It is he and the ERG, not to mention Rees-Mogg, who should hang their heads in shame.

 

Especially as Johnson now wants to renege on an international treaty he signed and announced as a personal triumph less than a year ago!

May did her best to keep us as closely aligned to the EU as possible. A fake Brexit. BRINO. She was kicked to the curb where she belongs. History will not be kind to her.

 

The EU have already reneged on the treaty by failing to negotiate in good faith. As far as I'm concerned it's null and void and should be ripped up. At the very least we should withhold all future payments until a mutually beneficial FTA that respects UK sovereignty is agreed.

[Rookiescot]

39 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Allow me to explain. His choice was sign it or extend again since the Remainer Parliament had made it illegal to leave without it. Geoffrey Cox was right, that Parliament WAS a disgrace undermining the UK at every turn, weakening the hand of it's own country. No doubt you loved it. The Remainer defence at the time was "But Parliament is sovereign" as if that legitimized them screwing over their own electorate.

 

If he was totally honest he'd have said "This May deal is still terrible, but it's the only way we can get out so let's suck it up and just get out". However, May is still a Tory and Johnson is still a politician so he tried to dress it up. We all knew it was a terrible deal for the UK. Let's hope we don't make the same mistake in the next month and get out with No Deal at the end of December.

 

But as you like to remind everyone Johnson has an 80 seat majority and could have changed whatever he wanted.

He proclaimed it as his deal. A fantastic deal to get Brexit done. His deal. You trying to blame May for Johnsons actions is just laughable. May didnt make him sign it and May didnt make him break it.

 

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Makes you wonder what we were paying all those Billions of pounds for every year, doesn't it.

The contribution to the EU from income tax was less than one eighth of what was being paid towards the interest on the national debt.

The interest on the national debt will be greater as a result of brexit by more than EU contributions, the government are very reluctant to say what brexit has already cost the nation.

The truth will get buried under covid.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Name one.

 

You can't; because the ECJ has no jurisdiction over a member state's criminal law and courts.

 

"The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) interprets EU law to make sure it is applied in the same way in all EU countries, and settles legal disputes between national governments and EU institutions.

It can also, in certain circumstances, be used by individuals, companies or organisations to take action against an EU institution, if they feel it has somehow infringed their rights." (Source)

 

 

Exactly, it is the brexit myths that got us in this mess.

 

8th December 2017

The UK rarely ends up in the European Court of Justice (ECJ), and when it does it wins its cases more often than most European Union (EU) member states, a new report finds.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/news/latest/new-analysis-shows-uk-rarely-taken-european-court

[Tofer]

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Tofer, as you are merely repeating your assumptions and false accusations without actually providing any evidence at all to back them up, I see no reason for me to take up even more bandwidth and further bore everyone else by yet again providing  the evidence which proves you wrong and asking you the same questions you have again refused to answer.

 

No doubt in your mind you will see that as some form of false victory.

 

There are none so blind as those that will not see......

[Tofer]

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Name one.

 

You can't; because the ECJ has no jurisdiction over a member state's criminal law and courts.

 

"The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) interprets EU law to make sure it is applied in the same way in all EU countries, and settles legal disputes between national governments and EU institutions.

It can also, in certain circumstances, be used by individuals, companies or organisations to take action against an EU institution, if they feel it has somehow infringed their rights." (Source)

 

 

 

BS - the EUC of human rights overturned many a UK court decision - do you really know nothing?

 

Stop asking for proof, I'm not your nanny, look it up yourself if you dispute my statements, because I'm certainly not going to just to satisfy your intransigence, and refusal to accept the truth.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

The interest on the national debt will be greater as a result of brexit by more than EU contributions, the government are very reluctant to say what brexit has already cost the nation.

Do you have any source for this? Or is it just a guess?

 

Because as far as I know, there are no figures available on the financial cost or financial gains of Brexit, since we haven't even left the withdrawal period yet. How can anyone know the cost of something that hasn't happened yet (yes I know we have officially left but the process of leaving, changing processes, signing all of the new trade deals etc. is not yet complete). A true assessment of the costs or gains could be made in around 10 years from now. Right now we are investing in ourselves, and the benefits will be seen later down the line.

 

It's like setting up a shop, spending all that money on stock, training, decorating, licencing etc. and then at the end of the first day's trading you declare the project a failure because you have spent a million Baht and only sold 50,000 Baht worth of goods. Patience Dragonfly, the benefits won't all be seen on January 1st 2021.

[Tofer]

20 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

It’s just a bit amusing when Brexiteers celebrate these deals as huge successes when they’re merely an operational workaround

 

Ah, but they are UK trade deals now, independent of the EU's protectionist levies and taxes.

 

Very sad that you can only denigrate the UK's efforts and progress in making a success of their new start. I suppose you remainers would be happier to see the UK fall flat on it's face, just so you can say I told you so...... 

[Tofer]

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

yet again providing  the evidence which proves you wrong and asking you the same questions you have again refused to answer.

 

Go on - be a sport. I'm waiting with baited breath to see what evidence you have to disprove my statements.

 

Oh, of course, there isn't any......

 

[Tofer]

13 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

OK then why did he sign it and indeed tout it as being HIS oven ready deal?

 

So predictable. ????

 

I know this post has gone on a long time, but have you forgotten I told you before, to get the process off the starting block, and get the UK out of the EU clutches which I think you must admit, he has done.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Tofer

[Tofer]

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

How can anyone trust a government which signs an international treaty and then a few months later declares that it's going to ignore it?

 

Lots of countries out there signing trade deals and fisheries agreements that dispels your opinion. ????

[Tofer]

28 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Do you have any source for this? Or is it just a guess?

 

Nah, he's sharing the same crystal balls with, David555, Rookiescot and 7by7.

[Rookiescot]

49 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

So predictable. ????

 

I know this post has gone on a long time, but have you forgotten I told you before, to get the process off the starting block, and get the UK out of the EU clutches which I think you must admit, he has done.

 

You Brexiteers love to brag that he has an 80 majority. He could have changed whatever he wanted. 

He only realised later that he couldnt put a border down the Irish sea.

Do you know why he cant put a border down the Irish sea?