Britain to ban new petrol cars by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

[snoop1130]

Britain to ban new petrol cars by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

By Susanna Twidale

 

Vehicles sitting in traffic approach the Blackwall Tunnel, as Britain will ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2030, five years earlier than previously planned, in London, Britain, November 18, 2020. REUTERS/Simon Dawson

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain will ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2030, five years earlier than previously planned, as part of what Prime Minister Boris Johnson is casting as a "green revolution" to cut emissions to net zero by 2050.

 

Johnson, who is grappling with Europe's most deadly COVID-19 crisis, Brexit trade negotiations and the departure of his most senior adviser, wants to underscore his green credentials as part of what he hopes will be a reset for his government.

 

"Now is the time to plan for a green recovery with high-skilled jobs that give people the satisfaction of knowing they are helping to make the country cleaner, greener and more beautiful," Johnson said in a column published in the Financial Times on Tuesday.

 

Britain last year became the first G7 country to set in law a net zero emission target by 2050, which will require wholesale changes in the way Britons travel, use energy and eat.

 

In total the plan would mobilise 12 billion pounds ($16 billion) of government money, with as much as three times that amount coming from the private sector, and create and support 250,000 highly skilled green jobs by 2030, Johnson said.

 

The new date for a ban on new petrol and diesel cars is five years earlier than the 2035 pledge made by Johnson in February.

 

CHALLENGE

 

The plan offers 582 million pounds in grants for those buying zero or ultra-low emission vehicles to make them cheaper to buy, which was welcomed by auto industry group SMMT.

 

"Success will depend on reassuring consumers that they can afford these new technologies," SMMT said in a statement, adding the new deadline posed an "immense challenge" to the sector.

 

Johnson's plan was broadly welcomed by industry.

 

"It gives a springboard to the huge opportunities for UK-wide investment and green jobs that a true low-carbon economy can bring," said Josh Hardie, acting director at the Confederation of British Industry.

 

Under the plan, the sale of hybrid cars and vans will be banned from 2035.

 

An extra 200 million pounds would create industrial clusters mustering technology to capture, store and use carbon dioxide emissions by the mid-2020s. Another two hubs are projected by 2030, taking the total investment in the technology to 1 billion pounds.

 

This funding is likely to benefit sites in northern England, such as the Humber region and Teesside, and Port Talbot in south Wales, where industrial carbon capture projects are being developed at sites such as steel works.

 

Johnson, who has promised to increase Britain's offshore wind power to 40 gigawatts by 2030 from around 10 GW now, pledged up to 500 million pounds for projects trailing the use of hydrogen including for home heating and cooking.

 

The government also pledged 525 million pounds to develop large- and small-scale nuclear plants.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-18

 

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[473geo]

Good stuff Boris - UK heading in the right direction

[fangless]

More needless pandering to the "Climate Change" brigands with no thought of what the impact on the common working man(or woman) will be.

 

I would love to see how 3rd world countries get their electric tractors to work!

 

China is of course rushing to shut all its Coal fired power stations and immediately stopping all present and future construction of them.

 

It is all Political claptrap.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by fangless

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, 473geo said:

Good stuff Boris - UK heading in the right direction

I agree.

 

Well, at least on this issue, I agree.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[steve187]

never going to happen, the cost is unaffordable, the batteries are not up to the job, the where is all the electric going to come from, boris will be long gone and a distant memory in 2030

[samsensam]

14 minutes ago, steve187 said:

never going to happen, the cost is unaffordable, the batteries are not up to the job, the where is all the electric going to come from, boris will be long gone and a distant memory in 2030

 

the thread is about the future, you are talking about the present state of the technology and pricing so your reply is irrelevant

[fangless]

 

Electric car batteries are NOT green!

 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/06/1067272#:~:text=It has also contributed to,contamination%2C groundwater depletion and pollution.

 

The shift to electric mobility is in line with ongoing efforts to reduce the world’s dependence on fossil fuels, and reduce harmful greenhouse gas emissions responsible for climate change, but a new report from UNCTAD, warns that the raw materials used in electric car batteries, are highly concentrated in a small number of countries, which raises a number of concerns.

Drilling down in DRC, Chile

For example, two-thirds of all cobalt production happens in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). According the UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF), about 20 per cent of cobalt supplied from the DRC comes from artisanal mines, where human rights abuses have been reported, and up to 40,000 children work in extremely dangerous conditions in the mines for meagre income.

And in Chile, lithium mining uses nearly 65% of the water in the country's Salar de Atamaca region, one of the driest desert areas in the world, to pump out brines from drilled wells. This has forced local quinoa farmers and llama herders to migrate and abandon ancestral settlements. It has also contributed to environment degradation, landscape damage and soil contamination, groundwater depletion and pollution.

[473geo]

50 minutes ago, steve187 said:

never going to happen, the cost is unaffordable, the batteries are not up to the job, the where is all the electric going to come from, boris will be long gone and a distant memory in 2030

I guess you are still using the old miners carbide lamp to see in the dark

[fangless]

4 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I guess you are still using the old miners carbide lamp to see in the dark

No the greens seem to think that they will be able to use a wind turbine or a wave powered torch to do walk about in their dark green (dead) world.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by fangless

[7by7]

2 hours ago, steve187 said:

never going to happen, the cost is unaffordable, the batteries are not up to the job, the where is all the electric going to come from, boris will be long gone and a distant memory in 2030

 

1 hour ago, samsensam said:

 

the thread is about the future, you are talking about the present state of the technology and pricing so your reply is irrelevant

 

At the moment affordable electric cars are impractical for anything except short journey city use as their range is limited and they take a long time to charge.

 

The Tesla Roadster may have an approximate real world range of 600 miles, but it then takes 30 hours to fully charge. The Tesla Tesla Model S Long Range has an approximate real world range of 325 miles and takes 15 hours to fully charge. If not able to pay Tesla prices, the next best is the Volkswagen ID.3 Long range with an average real world range of 295 miles which takes 12 hours 15 minutes to fully charge. (Source)

 

As someone who before Covid travelled all over the UK for work, such ranges and charging times are totally impracticable. Even were my employer and/or I prepared to pay £185,500 for the Tesla Roadster, it is a coupe and so useless for carrying the equipment I needed for my work; and would still be charging when I had to move on to my next site the following morning!

 

What about vans? Currently their average real world range is limited to around 100 miles; although Renault say that their new all electric van will have a range of 245 miles. (Source) They still take 10 hors plus to charge.

 

That is the main problem with electric vehicles; the further you drive, the longer it takes to recharge.

 

So to be practicable for most, whether van or car, then :

• real world range needs to be increased,
• charging times need to be considerably reduced and
• prices need to come down to match comparable fossil fuelled vehicles.

Can all that happen in just 10 years?

 

Better, I think, for manufacturers to invest in hydrogen fuel cells; which seem to have taken a back seat lately.

Edited November 18, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[richard_smith237]

What is the energy source of all these electric vehicles ?

 

I know the article stated ‘new cars’ - but that means in 20 years time most of the cars will be electric. So what is providing the energy?

 

The UK is already in an extremely vulnerable position with regards to meeting its energy / electricity demand. 

 

A solar panel on every roof of every building, in any free space, an incredible development in battery technology which doesn’t rely on mining rare earth minerals from underdeveloped nations. 

 

Or, nuclear power !!... Better still, create a stable tiny fusion reactors which fit inside a car !!! just don’t crash and blow up the neighbourhood !

 

 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, 473geo said:

Good stuff Boris - UK heading in the right direction

Geo, Nice to be able to agree with you for a change.

 

Let's hope Johnson is well on his way to delivering on this commitment by 2024 which, of course, is the latest possible date for his departure (sorry, old habits????)

[Enoon]

It has been said that if a person could fully visualise the circumstance and experience of their own death, it would cause them the most acute anxiety and drive them to the edge of, and quite possibly into, the chasm of madness.

 

It would appear that the prospect of an absence of petrol engines has the same effect of some unfortunate individuals.

 

Hopefully some sort of "help" will be available for them........when the time comes.

 

 

 

[Salerno]

7 hours ago, fangless said:

More needless pandering to the "Climate Change" brigands with no thought of what the impact on the common working man(or woman) will be.

 

Strange feeling of deja vu. Heard very similar arguments re "with no thought of what the impact on the common working man(or woman) will be." in the mid-80s when Germany banned leaded petrol.  

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

At the moment affordable electric cars are impractical for anything except short journey city use as their range is limited and they take a long time to charge.

 

The Tesla Roadster may have an approximate real world range of 600 miles, but it then takes 30 hours to fully charge. The Tesla Tesla Model S Long Range has an approximate real world range of 325 miles and takes 15 hours to fully charge. If not able to pay Tesla prices, the next best is the Volkswagen ID.3 Long range with an average real world range of 295 miles which takes 12 hours 15 minutes to fully charge. (Source)

 

As someone who before Covid travelled all over the UK for work, such ranges and charging times are totally impracticable. Even were my employer and/or I prepared to pay £185,500 for the Tesla Roadster, it is a coupe and so useless for carrying the equipment I needed for my work; and would still be charging when I had to move on to my next site the following morning!

 

What about vans? Currently their average real world range is limited to around 100 miles; although Renault say that their new all electric van will have a range of 245 miles. (Source) They still take 10 hors plus to charge.

 

That is the main problem with electric vehicles; the further you drive, the longer it takes to recharge.

 

So to be practicable for most, whether van or car, then :

• real world range needs to be increased,
• charging times need to be considerably reduced and
• prices need to come down to match comparable fossil fuelled vehicles.

Can all that happen in just 10 years?

 

Better, I think, for manufacturers to invest in hydrogen fuel cells; which seem to have taken a back seat lately.

Extremely misleading information. First off, what you don't mention is that once a Tesla battery reaches 80%, it automatically slows down the charging to protect the battery.

Second, your figures are valid only if you use the slowest home charging option.

If you use a Nema 14-50 charger and your battery is empty it will take between 8-17 hours to charge your battery.

And finally if you get a Wall Connector it will take between 7-11 hours to fully charge an empty battery.

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/how-long-does-it-take-to-charge-a-tesla

Additionally if you charge your battery to 80% times are much shorter. And if the battery isn't entirely empty, which would obviously be most of the time, charging time will also be shorter

[ExpatOilWorker]

You can still get a hybrid until 2035.

https://www.ft.com/content/5e9af60b-774b-4a72-8d06-d34b5192ffb4

However, ministers are expected to keep the less stringent date of 2035 for an end to the sale of hybrid cars that are powered by electric batteries as well as traditional motors.

[steve187]

9 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

the thread is about the future, you are talking about the present state of the technology and pricing so your reply is irrelevant

you know the future, i need some lottery numbers, my view is relevant, the cars will be too expensive for the common man .you added nothing to the thread, only to critise  someones post

[stevenl]

32 minutes ago, steve187 said:

you know the future, i need some lottery numbers, my view is relevant, the cars will be too expensive for the common man .you added nothing to the thread, only to critise  someones post

Disagree, he made a good point imo.

[placeholder]

40 minutes ago, steve187 said:

you know the future, i need some lottery numbers, my view is relevant, the cars will be too expensive for the common man .you added nothing to the thread, only to critise  someones post

It's more like you're living in the past. Guess what? The future is here!

 

China is taking on Tesla's electric car supremacy (and winning)

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-car-sales-china-vs-tesla

Even without subsidies an EV can be purchased in China for £15,700

And of course the cost of batteries has been plummeting for the past ten years.

What's more maintenance costs on an EV are much lower because the electric motor is a lot simple than a internal combustion motor. For the same reason EV's last a lot longer. Which is why fleets are beginning to switch to EV's.

https://www.fleetpoint.org/electric-vehicles-2/why-fleets-are-still-making-the-switch-to-electric-vehicles/

Edited November 19, 2020 by placeholder

[Boomer6969]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

At the moment affordable electric cars are impractical for anything except short journey city use as their range is limited and they take a long time to charge.

 

The Tesla Roadster may have an approximate real world range of 600 miles, but it then takes 30 hours to fully charge. The Tesla Tesla Model S Long Range has an approximate real world range of 325 miles and takes 15 hours to fully charge. If not able to pay Tesla prices, the next best is the Volkswagen ID.3 Long range with an average real world range of 295 miles which takes 12 hours 15 minutes to fully charge. (Source)

 

As someone who before Covid travelled all over the UK for work, such ranges and charging times are totally impracticable. Even were my employer and/or I prepared to pay £185,500 for the Tesla Roadster, it is a coupe and so useless for carrying the equipment I needed for my work; and would still be charging when I had to move on to my next site the following morning!

 

What about vans? Currently their average real world range is limited to around 100 miles; although Renault say that their new all electric van will have a range of 245 miles. (Source) They still take 10 hors plus to charge.

 

That is the main problem with electric vehicles; the further you drive, the longer it takes to recharge.

 

So to be practicable for most, whether van or car, then :

• real world range needs to be increased,
• charging times need to be considerably reduced and
• prices need to come down to match comparable fossil fuelled vehicles.

Can all that happen in just 10 years?

 

Better, I think, for manufacturers to invest in hydrogen fuel cells; which seem to have taken a back seat lately.

You need a shift in focus Mate; form "electric car" to "electric transport". Drive your electric car to the station, catch an electric train to Paris, hire an electric taxi and Zoom your meeting with the California headquarters.

[ExpatOilWorker]

We have an EV experiment running right at our doorstep with BYD rolling out 1000 taxi in Bangkok, so just lean back and watch.

 

Lower operating cost and higher fare, clear as mud as usual. 

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/auto/30352313

 

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

We have an EV experiment running right at our doorstep with BYD rolling out 1000 taxi in Bangkok, so just lean back and watch.

 

Lower operating cost and higher fare, clear as mud as usual. 

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/auto/30352313

 

It’s Official — Consumer Reports Confirms EV Owners Spend Half As Much On Maintenance

Data is king, and when it comes to information on the frequency of repairs on automobiles, Consumer Reports has more data than anyone. For its latest report, it did a deep dive into the data from its 2019 and 2020 reliability surveys of electric and gasoline powered vehicles. After crunching all the numbers, Consumer Reports says “drivers of electric vehicles are saving an average of 50% on maintenance and repair over the life of a vehicle compared to owners of gas-powered vehicles.”

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/26/its-official-consumer-reports-confirms-ev-owners-spend-half-as-much-on-maintenance/

[Darksidedude]

ha ha wont happen big oil will step in 

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Darksidedude said:

ha ha wont happen big oil will step in 

Big oil is investing more and more in other energy sources than oil. 

[Inepto Cracy]

My two cents worth here. I have recently bought a Toyota Hybrid and an MG Hybrid. The Toyota has batteries and a petrol motor for charging up the batteries when they get low.

Now the MG on the other hand has a lot of other hidden expenses which must be taken into consideration after you have bought the vehicle. This vehicle needs an outside 3 phase charging point, for overnight charging of its batteries. The vehicle also has a turbo charged petrol engine for charging while traveling.

Now to change your home from single phase to 3 phase is a costly exercise.

The tranformer/s outside supplying your village must be upgraded. Your village power lines (all) have to be upgraded. Then your home lines have to be upgraded from 2 strand wire to 4 strand wire to be able to carry the 3 phase load. Then your house wiring may have to be redone to ensure safety, yes told "safety" by the PEA official.

However doing some reading on this process, it does seem that your household electricity bill will reduce, and also, 3 phase is much more stable the single phase.

So getting the Thai buyers to be able to afford these extra costs, may come at a more severe price, more power stations needed.

[Salerno]

4 minutes ago, Inepto Cracy said:

So getting the Thai buyers to be able to afford these extra costs, may come at a more severe price, more power stations needed.

 

Luckily the article is about the UK 

[Inepto Cracy]

2 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Luckily the article is about the UK 

Quite so, but I really don't think households in the UK have 3 phase electricity running into all homes. Only large businesses and factories might have 3 phase. Please correct me if I am wrong. Or would the MG not require this 3 phase electricity for charging in the UK, only single phase?

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, Inepto Cracy said:

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

No idea, was just taking the mickey a little bit. Given the infrastructure trying to implement the same policies in the same time frame in Thailand would be ... problematic ... shall we say.

 

No idea what the situation in the UK is currently re electric infrastructure but the timelines will be based on realistic goals (within normal parameters of any government decision regardless of the country of course).

[ivor bigun]

12 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

the thread is about the future, you are talking about the present state of the technology and pricing so your reply is irrelevant

as is yours ,it will never happen in 10 years

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

as is yours ,it will never happen in 10 years

Thank you for sharing with us your informed and enlightening opinion.