Repair loose floor tile without removal - anyone tried it?

[Susco]

11 minutes ago, steve187 said:

thick bed sand and cement is used to 'stick' the tiles down.

porcelain tiles which are the most common for living room areas will not stick to sand and cement, it just puts and imprint of the  pattern on the back of the tile in the sand/cement bed, but not stuck, after a while the tile warps or foot traffic causes the tile to pull away from the sand/cement bed. A thin bed adhesive tile adhesive with a 'porcelain'  formula is the way to go

 

LOL. Reminds me when a team of "tilers" started at my house to lay the 60x60 tiles.

 

They laid a bed of mixed sand and cement, wetted it, and laid the tile.

 

When I asked them if they were not gonna apply glue, they looked at me as if they saw a man from Mars.

 

So I explained them and then they applied. At the end of the first day I looked at the tiles they had laid, and asked them to remove all and redo, as they were not in a straight line.

 

Same happened the next day, after which they came to pick up their stuff during the evening when I wasn't there, to never be seen again.

 

I was already suspicious that they had all new tools when they arrived, turned out that until 2 days before they were actually window fitters, but had run out of a job

Edited December 6, 2020 by Susco

[Elkski]

There are many ways to lay tile.   Some old school and some modern.   It is best to use a good quality thinset.  If the substrate doesn't flex and good thinset, of the proper type,  the tile should never separate.   1st thing to check is subfloor  flexing.   Here in US we use mostly  wood beams and subfloor.   First thing to do is calculate the beam deflection.  It should not exceed L/360  deflection.   For porcelain tile.  Stone needs stiffer.  Natural stone is less porous and harder for mortar to stick to.  Also cracks easier.  

https://www.tcnatile.com/faqs/30-deflection.html

 

I have only seen crazy tile methods in Thailand and Vietnam.   I love to observe building  projects when I can.  

In Vietnam I watched a living area dining room house tile job .   It was crazy.  It was 4 women and 3 men to do the dry bed.  The women did most of the real hard work.  First they did have real survey marks in a few locations and used a water level amd caulk line to mark the perimeter of the room.  The boss poured lots of powder termite killer around the outside  border.  This was a slab floor poured on sand fill of 1 meter depth.  No compactor.  They did walk on it and hand tamp it and used lots of water.  I sunk in 30 cm.  It was a bit harder the next  morning when they stsrtedctying rebar. And Poured cement the next day.   Thwy did have a day where they poured cement beams  for window and door headers  for the front door and  windows . After the  termite powder thrown,  poured unevenly around perimeter the women made a big pile of sand  in each room.  Then they poured on 2-3 bags cement and a bit of water and all started  mixing.   It did have a good dry mortar  consistency but I could see the cement wasn't mixed in very evenly.  Then they started to toss it to one corner and side.   Boss and  worker screed it to the line and moved it around with hand trowels.  It was proper dry bed thickness of about 3-4 cm thick.. The women were very good at tossing shovel fulls where needed.   I have done mud beds .  They proceeded across the room and checking with the scree board in all directions.   Then they did the adjoining room.  Rooms  were joined by like 4-5 meter opening.   Most people wait till next day to tile.  But they started laying tiles right after lunch.  

I recall larger tiles maybe 40x40cm.  They mixed up a cement  slurry.  I actually don't  know what was in the bag since  I couldn't read it.  But it seemed like the same  grey cement they always used.   They mixed it to near water.  Not even as thick as syrup.   They pored a thin layer on the floor and laid the tile down. They did use a hammer on some tiles. They did have trouble where the rooms joined.   It was like the dry pack was still soft enough to move with the hammer.   They  basically had no grout line and no spacers.  I forgot to look to see if the tiles had alignment lobes.  Right after they laid the first room and were on the way in the remaining area.  Everyone got to grouting.   It was non sanded  grout .  It was in different smaller bags.   They poured it in dry.  Using  cardboard and things to get most along the lines.  Then they dripped water on the lines.  I was shocked.   After pushing excess  towards the crack they then mixed up a slurry or added more dry powder  to fill the cracks.  They left an excess amount  on the tile  maybe  4-5 cm wide 1-2mm thick.    I saw in kitchen that had been  done the week before that the grout was the same and had not been cleaned off yet. Not sure how they cleaned off the grout.  I can't believe this tile will last. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Elkski

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think it fair to assume that the substance under the tiles is tile adhesive

Humm... I guess you haven’t seen that many tiles laid here. Tile adhesive is often not used. They are  very commonly laid on a thick bed of sand (several cm thick) with a modicum of cement added. Certainly a percentage are laid using thinset.

[Yellowtail]

34 minutes ago, steve187 said:

the  problem with tiling in Thailand is 

joint gap too small should be min 3mm

thick bed sand and cement is used to 'stick' the tiles down.

porcelain tiles which are the most common for living room areas will not stick to sand and cement, it just puts and imprint of the  pattern on the back of the tile in the sand/cement bed, but not stuck, after a while the tile warps or foot traffic causes the tile to pull away from the sand/cement bed. A thin bed adhesive tile adhesive with a 'porcelain'  formula is the way to go, 

the only way to fix a loose tile is to remove the grout and take the tile up, remove 5mm or so of sand/cement bed, then stick the tile or a replacement down with the thin bed adhesive as above, 

that's my 2 cents worth after 40+ years as a ceramic wall and floor tiler

 

While I have seen them use cement, most of the setters I've seen use thin-set. I like the Crocodile in the green bag, it's pretty cheap and it works great.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Um you aren't talking about cutting tiles are you because I was referring to the grout and if a good vacuum cleaner, you won't see any dust, again that is if you are cutting out the grout.

 

Yeah, sorry I was talking about cutting tile and concrete. What kind of wheel do you use? I can't find one thin enough. The grout remover scrapers work pretty  good but they take a bit of work...

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Yeah, sorry I was talking about cutting tile and concrete. What kind of wheel do you use? I can't find one thin enough. The grout remover scrapers work pretty  good but they take a bit of work...

 

No problem, and to be honest I have never cut into grout with a grinder, I was just suggesting to the other poster to have the wife or someone else hold a vacuum cleaner there when cutting, the reason being is, when I have drilled holes into walls in the past, I have the Mrs stand there with the vacuum cleaner hose to catch the dust.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

No problem, and to be honest I have never cut into grout with a grinder, I was just suggesting to the other poster to have the wife or someone else hold a vacuum cleaner there when cutting, the reason being is, when I have drilled holes into walls in the past, I have the Mrs stand there with the vacuum cleaner hose to catch the dust.

 

I tried the grinder on grout once, takes a lot more control than I have. Once you get it going it's not too bad, but one little slip and the tile is dicked up. Bought a Makita multi-tool (vibrating-cutter/saw) and tried that but it was a pretty good PITA as well, although damaging the tile was not really an issue with it. For my money the grout-scrapers work pretty well, particularly if the grout is in bad shape. 

[impulse]

Word of caution.  There's epoxy resin available on Lazada in 1/2 liter cans.  It is way too thick (viscous) for what you're planning to do.  The price is right, but it's not good for any projects where you need the epoxy to flow.  Suck it up and pay for marine epoxy if you're in Thailand. 

 

Here in the USA, I buy tabletop epoxy on Amazon for around $50 (USD) per gallon.  Maybe they can ship to Thailand?

[sometimewoodworker]

11 hours ago, impulse said:

Word of caution.  There's epoxy resin available on Lazada in 1/2 liter cans.  It is way too thick (viscous) for what you're planning to do.  The price is right, but it's not good for any projects where you need the epoxy to flow.  Suck it up and pay for marine epoxy if you're in Thailand. 

 

Here in the USA, I buy tabletop epoxy on Amazon for around $50 (USD) per gallon.  Maybe they can ship to Thailand?

There are quite a few different epoxy resins available on Lazada some in cans most in plastic containers, at various price points for various uses and in a variety of sizes.

[TopDeadSenter]

11 hours ago, impulse said:

Word of caution.  There's epoxy resin available on Lazada in 1/2 liter cans.  It is way too thick (viscous) for what you're planning to do.  The price is right, but it's not good for any projects where you need the epoxy to flow.  Suck it up and pay for marine epoxy if you're in Thailand. 

 

Here in the USA, I buy tabletop epoxy on Amazon for around $50 (USD) per gallon.  Maybe they can ship to Thailand?

You have me worried now. Wish i just bought it at the local marine supply store. If the lazada product is too thick, can I buy epoxy at the boat builders and use the hardener from lazada? IIRC the epoxy is cheap but the hardener is v expensive?

 

 

[TopDeadSenter]

21 hours ago, steve187 said:

the only way to fix a loose tile is to remove the grout and take the tile up, remove 5mm or so of sand/cement bed, then stick the tile or a replacement down with the thin bed adhesive as above, 

that's my 2 cents worth after 40+ years as a ceramic wall and floor tiler

Thanks for the professional advice. Sent you a PM.

[impulse]

28 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There are quite a few different epoxy resins available on Lazada some in cans most in plastic containers, at various price points for various uses and in a variety of sizes.

 

A few years back when I bought mine they only had one type that showed up under a search for "epoxy".  In red and yellow and black cans.  Very viscous.  In fact, too viscous for my boating related project.

 

Glad to hear the selection has improved over the years.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by impulse

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:50 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Every chemist (pharmacy) has it in stock 

Girls use it for nail polish remover.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Elkski said:

I can't believe this tile will last. 

LOL. It only has to last till they get paid.

 

I've seen some crazy things in LOS. My Thai BIL made an outside bathroom, but the sink wasn't draining. I dug up the outlet pipe and found it stopped before it got to the drain.

He also omitted to put a pipe through the wall before he tiled it for the toilet water tank. Making a hole in tile is really difficult without a proper tool, which I could not find, and had to use masonry bits. In the end I had to replace the entire tile.

Edited December 7, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Girls use it for nail polish remover.

Since nail polish remover is often 60% acetone and the pure version is much cheaper, though not so good for cuticles and skin, that’s not  surprising. 

[TopDeadSenter]

Update on repairing loose floor tiles without removing. 

1)these tiles were virtually undrillable, not sure what material, went through 2 bits so 290B per hole and that was using copious amounts of H2O and not drilling for more than 5 seconds at lowish RPM in one go. Took an hour per hole.

2)epoxy ordered from lazada, lovely stuff clear and nice flow.

3)tested by blowing air with a straw through the hole in tile - sealed with some dinnamman- to make sure it was all hollow underneath and ready to pour resin, but there was no space under tile, couldn't suck or blow any air at all, both holes the same, so gave up and painted balcony wooden furniture with the epoxy - looks great!

 

Steve the professional was right. Do it the proper way.

 

[JeffersLos]

A few floor tiles have become squeaky over the years, some of them have a corner that will move up and down a millimeter or so when pushed. The spacing is around 1mm. The grouting has some gaps etc at this stage.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/50-1000ml-i4963780323-s20913537552.html?

 

Has anyone used a product such as this to stop the movement and sqeaking? 

[Yellowtail]

No, but I've used epoxy with good success. 

[VocalNeal]

On 12/3/2020 at 2:30 PM, NanLaew said:

lazada would be a good option for that as well as the acetone and the syringes.

 

Have you ever tried to use a syringe with acetone? Good luck with that.

[Will B Good]

Haven't read the thread!!.....but our guy put a tiny drill hole into the grouting and then squirted in a very watery cement mix......worked like a dream.....about 40 plus tiles had to be done.....

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Have you ever tried to use a syringe with acetone? Good luck with that.

I have, but they were glass and metal syringes

[VocalNeal]

^ I very recently bought a glass one from a local secondhand shop. Max graduation 200ml. :-) 

[Yellowtail]

Acetone will not dissolve polypropylene.

 

Acetone will dissolve polycarbonate. 

 

Most syringes are polypropylene and will work fine. Syringes that are polycarbonate will not work.

 

It is pretty easy to tell the difference between the two. 

[Yellowtail]

Incidentally, you can buy acetone in polypropylene jugs.