Toyota unveils new fuel cell car in fresh push on hydrogen technology

[snoop1130]

Toyota unveils new fuel cell car in fresh push on hydrogen technology

By Tim Kelly

 

Toyota Motor Corp's revamped Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car is displayed at its launching event in Tokyo, Japan, December 9, 2020. REUTERS/Tim Kelly

 

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan's Toyota Motor Corp put its revamped Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car, with 30% greater range, on sale on Wednesday in a fresh push to promote the zero-emission technology amid rapidly growing demand for electric vehicles, including its own.

 

Toyota has failed until now to win drivers over to fuel cell vehicles (FCV), which remain a niche technology despite Japanese government backing, amid concerns about a lack of fuelling stations, resale values and the risk of hydrogen explosions.

 

The new Mirai launch comes after Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga announced a goal in October to cut Japan's carbon emissions to zero by 2050, in line with a European Union target and ahead of a pledge by Chinese President Xi Jinping to make his country “carbon neutral” by 2060.

 

"The use of hydrogen is going to be an important factor in achieving carbon neutrality," Yoshikazu Tanaka, Mirai's chief engineer said. The car, he added represented a "departure point" for a broader use of hydrogen fuel cells beyond cars.

 

Hydrogen backers say it is cleaner than other carbon cutting technologies because water and heat are the only byproducts and it can be made from sources, including methane, coal, water, even garbage. Resource-poor Japan also sees it as a route to energy security.

 

By the end of September Toyota, however, had sold only 11,100 of its first generation Mirai, almost six years after its launch. Most other automakers have eschewed the technology in favour of electric vehicles (EV), with only Honda Motor Co and Hyundai Motor in neighbouring South Korea competing in hydrogen FCVs.

 

The new Mirai, like its predecessor, is still beyond the budget of most drivers at about 5 million yen ($48,000) even after more than $10,000 in Japanese government subsidies.

 

Rather than produce a cheaper car, Toyota said it wants to lure drivers with longer range - enough to drive around 800 kilometres (497 miles) without refueling - added features such as autonomous parking and a lower, sleeker design achieved by moving the hydrogen power unit to the front of the vehicle from under the car.

 

Accompanying the Mirai's launch Toyota said it planned to increase the production capacity for all FCVs, including buses and trucks, to 30,000 a year from 3,000.

 

That output, however is still far behind sales of electric vehicles. In 2019, automakers sold 2.1 million electric cars alone, 40% more than the previous year, according to the International Energy Agency.

 

Toyota had planned to use the postponed 2020 Olympic Games in Tokyo to showcase its fuel cell technology, with 100 buses meant to shuttle visitors between venues. The games organizer also planned to power the Olympic flame with hydrogen.

 

The Mirai revamp comes after Toyota on Tuesday, announced plans to test small FCV trucks with Japan's three major convenience store operators, Seven & i Holdings' Seven Eleven, Itochu Corp's FamilyMart and Lawson Inc .

 

Toyota's best chance of selling the Mirai and other FCV may, however, be in neighbouring China, where it has an FCV partnership with Guangzhou Automobile Group (GAC) and FAW Group. There are around 7,000 FCVs are on the road in the world's biggest automarket, versus more than 4 million EVs.

 

China, which is aiming for more than 1 million FCVs in service by 2030 compared with a Japanese target for 800,000, in September announced fresh support measures for FCVs that included requiring projects receiving government subsidies to boost the number of hydrogen-charging stations and make efforts to cut fuel prices.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-09

 

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[Susco]

I read that Toyota and BMW are working together on a concept where a hydrogen fuelled generator is used to charge the batteries.

 

I have also had conversations with people who are in the oil industry, and they all think that hydrogen will be the future.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

I think this is a better idea than going EV.

 

Once a nation is fully EV I can’t see how the electricity demand can be met without massive investment in nuclear energy & continued reliance on petroleum. 
 

Hydrogen is clearly a much cleaner better option if it can be generated more cost effectively.

 

Accidents could be much more ‘dramatic’ (explosive). 

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, snoop1130 said:

By the end of September Toyota, however, had sold only 11,100 of its first generation Mirai, almost six years after its launch.

Perhaps because it was ugly as sin?  

 

The new one isn’t much better.  Looks like a Tesla, which isn’t a looker either.  
 

Original Toyota Mirai...

 

 

 

[Enoon]

 

 

 

 

 

[transam]

13 hours ago, Airalee said:

Perhaps because it was ugly as sin?  

 

The new one isn’t much better.  Looks like a Tesla, which isn’t a looker either.  
 

Original Toyota Mirai...

 

 

 

But it might think you the driver is....????

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, transam said:

But it might think you the driver is....????

That’s a funny double digit IQ joke.

[Wullie Mercer]

Definitelythe way to go, initially cost more, but in the longrun more efficient and definitely greener than EV proposals.

[HarrySeaman]

The chart below shows clearly why battery electric vehicles make more sense than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.  Add to that the fact that making hydrogen (H₂) from "sources, including methane, coal, water, even garbage" produces greenhouse gases, primarily carbon dioxide (CO₂).  If electrolized using electricity produced by renewable energy sources then water is an exception but the efficiency for this process is about 1/3 that of simply using the renewable energy electricity to charge a battery for the vehicle.

 

[canthai55]

That is all well and good -

but where can you get 100% renewable electricity to charge your 100% EV ?

Make it yourself ?

And this does not take into account the energy needed to mine the raw materials, process them into batteries or steel, and the cost to reuse / recycle / recover the battery components to ensure them do not go into the landfill.

Take all those into account and your EV does not look so "Green"

"Oh - but we are working on those problems "

Come back when you have solved them - don't try to push this down the throats of an unsuspecting public who can not be bothered to do some research and discover the real - and hidden - costs of this whole EV business

[sirineou]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:35 AM, richard_smith237 said:

I think this is a better idea than going EV.

 

Once a nation is fully EV I can’t see how the electricity demand can be met without massive investment in nuclear energy & continued reliance on petroleum. 
 

Hydrogen is clearly a much cleaner better option if it can be generated more cost effectively.

 

Accidents could be much more ‘dramatic’ (explosive). 

How do you think hydrogen is generated? 

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe but   it is highly reactive and as such always attached to another element, mostly oxygen, forming water.

 Hydrogen is separated from oxygen via electrolysis requiring  large amounts of electricity. There are also some other ways to generate Hydrogen, but always requiring vast amounts of energy. 

A Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicle is an EV the only difference between that and a conventional lithium battery EV is how the electricity gets to the electric motors. In a Lithium battery EV the electricity is generated elsewhere and stored in the battery, where in a fuel cell EV the electric energy is generated elsewhere,  it's energy is stored  in the hydrogen creating process , and then released in the fuel cell driving an electric motor. A major advantage of a hydrogen fuel cell EV is that it only takes minutes to fill up a EV with hydrogen, much like filling up a car with gas, where a lithium battery EV takes hours to recharge. 

The advantage of conventional lithium battery EVs is the the infrastructure for the generation and delivery of electricity is already there,  as opposed to hydrogen that is not as readily available. 

This is a cursory description of a complex . subject, and done from memory so please excuse any omissions and or errors. 

[Susco]

Toyota Calls EVs ‘Overhyped.’ It Sees a Huge Mismatch in Cost vs. Goals for the Industry.

Japanese auto maker Toyota Motor —the second-most valuable and the second-most prolific car maker in the world—has some words of caution for the fledgling electric-vehicle industry: EVs are over-hyped.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/toyota-plays-tesla-spoiler-sees-mismatch-in-cost-vs-goals-for-ev-industry-51608216505?siteid=yhoof2

[madhav]

7 hours ago, Susco said:

Toyota Calls EVs ‘Overhyped.’ It Sees a Huge Mismatch in Cost vs. Goals for the Industry.

Japanese auto maker Toyota Motor —the second-most valuable and the second-most prolific car maker in the world—has some words of caution for the fledgling electric-vehicle industry: EVs are over-hyped.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/toyota-plays-tesla-spoiler-sees-mismatch-in-cost-vs-goals-for-ev-industry-51608216505?siteid=yhoof2

They better adapt and adjust or they will crash burn like Kodak. Notice the article says ‘2nd most valuable’? 10 years ago people thought Tesla was a pipe dream. Now they are more valuable than Toyota themselves.
 

The demand for BEVs is clearly there, various governments are literally banning the sale of fossil based vehicles. And as all most other automakers desperately rush to adapt and adjust to manufacturing BEVs, Toyota still refuses to acknowledge it. The ship has sailed and the CEO of Toyota still ignorant about BEVs and nobody has the balls to tell him. 

[canthai55]

Those words of caution are words of fact.

Those that believe that in 10 years all the fossil fuel vehicles will disappear are the one in cloud cuckoo land

[madhav]

5 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Those words of caution are words of fact.

Those that believe that in 10 years all the fossil fuel vehicles will disappear are the one in cloud cuckoo land

Obviously they will still exist. They will die a slow death (especially in Thailand) However governments outlawing the ability to buy them is something that must be taken seriously. In Norway for example more than 70% of new car sales are EV’s.