After the White House, Trump faces uncertain future and legal threats

[Jeffr2]

A very good read:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54716550

 

Trump's legal battles: How six cases may play out

[Chivas]

When he's doing a 5 stretch in the slammer will his hair stylist be allowed to visit......??

Asking for a friend  ????

[Thailand]

2 minutes ago, Chivas said:

When he's doing a 5 stretch in the slammer will his hair stylist be allowed to visit......??

Asking for a friend  ????

His hair will have a separate cell.

[Chivas]

6 minutes ago, Thailand said:

His hair will have a separate cell.

 

Thats the post of the year.....just brilliant lol

[tomazbodner]

With all the legal challenges, will POTUS shorten to just P, a Prisoner? Or is that unimaginable... they don't serve KFC and McDonald's in prison...

[cmarshall]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Not exactly. 

He could do that.

He won't do that.

Resigning is not his brand.

Also even if he did such a pardon would only be for federal crimes.

It would have no impact on charges from the state of New York. 

 

My prediction is that Trump will indeed resign as president in order to get a bona-fide presidential pardon from Pence.  Alternatively, he could invoke the 25th Amendment for a few hours to get the pardon from Acting President Pence.  Trump has a history of quitting when it was to his advantage, such as when he agreed to a settlement of claims against his Trump University scam after insisting he would never settle.  

 

I also expect Trump to flee the country to escape prosecution in NY State.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Prosecution for state criminal offensives other than Florida (ie., NY) may face a difficult path to extradite Trump from Florida. 

Where he has been since 2019 a permanent resident with Trump-loyal Republican governor, Secretary of State and Senator. 

 

If things heat up enough, the real issue is going to be extraditing him from Dubai or Montenegro. Being the coward he is, he would never remain and face real felony charges. He knows how guilty he is. He would run. That is just who he is. Has he ever fought to save a dying business, and rescue his creditors (mostly small business contractors, honest hard working families)? No. Has he ever served his nation in the military, even though he was called up five times to do so? No. He was scared, and got deferrals. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by spidermike007

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

If things heat up enough, the real issue is going to be extraditing him from Dubai or Montenegro. Being the coward he is, he would never remain and face real felony charges. He knows how guilty he is. He would run. 

I don't think Trump will run.  He's got too much to lose in the US, and the charges against him won't really put him in jail.  Just extract money from him.

 

He's been bankrupt before, he knows the drill.  He knows how to work with lawyers.  His life will be a mess legally for a few years, but he'll be over to OANN or NewsMax peddling his lies, and asking for money from his clueless cult members.  And they'll give it to him!

 

He will lose some money, but make it up through speeches, books, and grifting.  Like he's been doing for so long.

 

A sucker born every minute.

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

You are missing the point.  "Personnel is policy."  Biden will indeed not interfere in DoJ investigations or prosecutions.  However, he will appoint the Attorney General.  He knows as well as you and I do which candidates for that job will want to prosecute Trump and which will decide that it's better for democracy not to.  Therefore, Biden will decide whether there will be such prosecutions or not.  If he were to pick a career prosecutor like your favorite candidate, Preet Bharara, that means Biden is deciding to prosecute Trump.  If, on the other hand, he picks a politician, particularly one who has never been a prosecutor, like the latest name bandied about, NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo, then there will not be a criminal prosecution of Trump by the DoJ.

 

Seems like it shouldn't be necessary to spell it out in such detail.  

 

that does not follow, if the selected individual follows the evidence and prosecutes accordingly.

 

why, i 'member....and it seems like just last week.....people were sayin' the supreme court would rule in favor of trump's batsoup crazy filings.  i mean, trump personally selected three justices, and i've heard "personnel is policy."  he knew as well as you and i and the kraken which candidates for those positions would rule in favor of his tinfoil underpants conspiracies or would rule in accordance with the law.  therefore, trump actually decided the election results.

 

too much detail?

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

My prediction is that Trump will indeed resign as president in order to get a bona-fide presidential pardon from Pence.  Alternatively, he could invoke the 25th Amendment for a few hours to get the pardon from Acting President Pence.  Trump has a history of quitting when it was to his advantage, such as when he agreed to a settlement of claims against his Trump University scam after insisting he would never settle.  

 

I also expect Trump to flee the country to escape prosecution in NY State.

I disagree.

He won't resign.

He will self pardon. 

Of course self pardoning has never been tested by the courts.

He might flee the country but I think he is playing a different kind of game.

A very banana republic kind of game.

I think he intends to create a shadow presidency backed by a right wing media empire and large armed militias.

That will be the dare.

Indict him and he will have a real threat to order his minions into civil war.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Prosecution for state criminal offensives other than Florida (ie., NY) may face a difficult path to extradite Trump from Florida. 

Where he has been since 2019 a permanent resident with Trump-loyal Republican governor, Secretary of State and Senator. 

 

 

Hold on that thought... Some of Trump's Mar-a-Lago neighbors don't want him back, and they may well have a legal case that he's previously agreed not to live there full-time:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/trump-mar-a-lago-neighbors-dispute/2020/12/15/bc2ce1d0-3ed4-11eb-9453-fc36ba051781_story.html

 

Mar-a-Lago neighbors to Trump: Spend your post-presidency elsewhere

"Next-door neighbors of Mar-a-Lago, President Trump’s private club in Palm Beach, Fla., that he has called his Winter White House, have a message for the outgoing commander in chief: We don’t want you to be our neighbor.

 

That message was formally delivered Tuesday morning in a demand letter delivered to the town of Palm Beach and also addressed to the U.S. Secret Service asserting that Trump lost his legal right to live at Mar-a-Lago because of an agreement he signed in the early 1990s when he converted the storied estate from his private residence to a private club.

 

The legal maneuver could, at long last, force Palm Beach to publicly address whether Trump can make Mar-a-Lago his legal residence and home, as he has been expected to do, when he becomes an ex-president after the swearing-in of Joe Biden on Jan. 20."

Edited December 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ChouDoufu]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

That message was formally delivered Tuesday morning in a demand letter delivered to the town of Palm Beach and also addressed to the U.S. Secret Service asserting that Trump lost his legal right to live at Mar-a-Lago because of an agreement he signed in the early 1990s when he converted the storied estate from his private residence to a private club.

 

The legal maneuver could, at long last, force Palm Beach to publicly address whether Trump can make Mar-a-Lago his legal residence and home, as he has been expected to do, when he becomes an ex-president after the swearing-in of Joe Biden on Jan. 20."

 

whoa, there!

 

hasn't trump been voting absentee in florida, based on his "residence" at the private club?

 

that appears to be proof of illegal voting, which is a felony.

 

dare i say it?........lock 'im up!

 

[cmarshall]

10 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

that does not follow, if the selected individual follows the evidence and prosecutes accordingly.

 

why, i 'member....and it seems like just last week.....people were sayin' the supreme court would rule in favor of trump's batsoup crazy filings.  i mean, trump personally selected three justices, and i've heard "personnel is policy."  he knew as well as you and i and the kraken which candidates for those positions would rule in favor of his tinfoil underpants conspiracies or would rule in accordance with the law.  therefore, trump actually decided the election results.

 

too much detail?

 

It can hardly be doubted that Trump and McConnell have changed the direction of the Court through their hammering Gorsuch and Barrett onto the Court by violating the norms of the Senate.  That fact is not contradicted by the fact that accepting the Texas AG's petition to overturn the votes in four other states was just a bridge too far.

 

Your thinking is too simplistic if you believe that there is no element of degree in the actions of political figures like Supreme Court justices, none of whom, despite their extreme conservatism, are out and out fascists of the Mike Flynn ilk.  Had a case with as much wiggle room as Bush v. Gore come to the current SC I am confident that they would indeed have executed another judicial coup as in 2000.  The problem was that the election wasn't close.

 

But in the case at hand, the term you need to learn is "prosecutorial discretion."  There is no crime of "failure to indict" in the US Code.  There is often a greater or lesser degree of politics, which is why, by the way, the Attorney General is always a politician and never a prosecutor promoted directly from a US Attorney job.  That explains why Preet Bharara never made the short list for the AG job, but Andrew Cuomo apparently has.

[cmarshall]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I disagree.

He won't resign.

He will self pardon. 

Of course self pardoning has never been tested by the courts.

He might flee the country but I think he is playing a different kind of game.

A very banana republic kind of game.

I think he intends to create a shadow presidency backed by a right wing media empire and large armed militias.

That will be the dare.

Indict him and he will have a real threat to order his minions into civil war.

 

Trump would love to self-pardon himself for the same reason that Napoleon snatched the crown from the pope to crown himself Emperor.  However, when it comes to legal risk Trump has always been much more careful than otherwise.  I am sure that every lawyer in his entourage has explained to him that a self-pardon might well not stand up in court, while a Pence pardon would be bullet-proof.  In the end Trump will go for the certain get-out-of-jail-free card, just like Nixon did.

 

We disagree.  The issue is joined.

[Jeffr2]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

Hold on that thought... Some of Trump's Mar-a-Lago neighbors don't want him back, and they may well have a legal case that he's previously agreed not to live there full-time:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/trump-mar-a-lago-neighbors-dispute/2020/12/15/bc2ce1d0-3ed4-11eb-9453-fc36ba051781_story.html

 

Mar-a-Lago neighbors to Trump: Spend your post-presidency elsewhere

"Next-door neighbors of Mar-a-Lago, President Trump’s private club in Palm Beach, Fla., that he has called his Winter White House, have a message for the outgoing commander in chief: We don’t want you to be our neighbor.

 

That message was formally delivered Tuesday morning in a demand letter delivered to the town of Palm Beach and also addressed to the U.S. Secret Service asserting that Trump lost his legal right to live at Mar-a-Lago because of an agreement he signed in the early 1990s when he converted the storied estate from his private residence to a private club.

 

The legal maneuver could, at long last, force Palm Beach to publicly address whether Trump can make Mar-a-Lago his legal residence and home, as he has been expected to do, when he becomes an ex-president after the swearing-in of Joe Biden on Jan. 20."

I also read where the Trump's think it's going to be strange to live there full time.  Walking out the door of your room only to be confronted by guests.  Not for me.

 

But he's not welcome in NYC, that's for sure.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Trump would love to self-pardon himself for the same reason that Napoleon snatched the crown from the pope to crown himself Emperor.  However, when it comes to legal risk Trump has always been much more careful than otherwise.  I am sure that every lawyer in his entourage has explained to him that a self-pardon might well not stand up in court, while a Pence pardon would be bullet-proof.  In the end Trump will go for the certain get-out-of-jail-free card, just like Nixon did.

 

We disagree.  The issue is joined.

Here's the flaw in your prediction.

I agree self pardoning is weak.

However, it won't ever be tested unless he's indicted on a federal crime.

Then they need to overturn the self pardoning as a first step.

But from Mr. Trump's POV, jail is jail. 

Doesn't matter if federal or state.

Doing the Pence dance doesn't save him either.

That's why I think my prediction is more likely. 

He avoids the embarrassment of the Pence dance and he weaponizes his stand against legal consequences. 

[cmarshall]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Here's the flaw in your prediction.

I agree self pardoning is weak.

However, it won't ever be tested unless he's indicted on a federal crime.

Then they need to overturn the self pardoning as a first step.

But from Mr. Trump's POV, jail is jail. 

Doesn't matter if federal or state.

Doing the Pence dance doesn't save him either.

That's why I think my prediction is more likely. 

He avoids the embarrassment of the Pence dance and he weaponizes his stand against legal consequences. 

 

That's not how it works.  There is no "procedure" for overturning a pardon.  There is just an indictment like any other.  But then Trump's lawyer trots out the selfie pardon which he hands to the judge explaining when the indictment cannot be charged.  Then the judge decides whether the pardon is legal.   If legal, the indictment is dropped.  If the judge decides that the pardon is not legal, he permits the indictment to go forward.  Trump's legal team would then appeal that decision first to the circuit court of appeals and, if they lose there as well, on to the Supreme Court who will decide whether the Constitution permits a self-pardon or not.  There is no procedure to "test" the self-pardon (or any other pardon) other than to indict the recipient.

 

The value of a pardon for federal crimes is of inestimable value to a career criminal like Trump, all the more so if the wording recapitulates the Nixon pardon "for all crimes which he has committed or may have committed."  Such a pardon would put all of Trump's federal crimes for the past five decades beyond the reach of prosecution.  Trump will realize the enormous benefit of a pardon of that scope, even if it does not protect him from NY State or the District of Columbia, whose AG has also now brought an action against Trump.

 

Yes, jail is jail, more or less, which is why Trump will eventually flee the country if it looks like the State of New York is really closing in.  There is no other way.  

 

I note that Barbara Res, who managed the construction of Trump Tower for Trump along with other projects over 18 years, also expectsTrump to flee the country if he is under criminal prosecution in NY State.

 

Trump certainly cares enormously about face, as you imply, but in my opinion he is not so disconnected from reality as to risk prison on that account. 

 

We'll just have to see.

Edited December 16, 2020 by cmarshall

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

41 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

whoa, there!

 

hasn't trump been voting absentee in florida, based on his "residence" at the private club?

 

that appears to be proof of illegal voting, which is a felony.

 

dare i say it?........lock 'im up!

 

 

there's some more background on the Mar a Lago residency issue and Trump's past voter registration theatrics here from June 2020:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/president-trump-tried-to-register-to-vote-in-florida-using-an-out-of-state-address/2020/06/03/687d0014-a4f2-11ea-b473-04905b1af82b_story.html

 

President Trump tried to register to vote in Florida using an out-of-state address

...

"On Thursday, an elections fraud complaint was filed with the Florida Department of State against Trump by Jim Watson, a semiretired truck driver from Boynton Beach, Fla. In the complaint, Watson asserts that Trump is prohibited from using Mar-a-Lago as his legal residence because it is a private club.

 

“This is in a recorded agreement, a covenant running with the land to the benefit of all Florida and Palm Beach County residents,” the complaint states.

 

Noting that Trump now uses Mar-a-Lago as his legal residence for his voter registration, the complaint says that “the Mar a Lago [sic] Club is not a property where anyone can legally reside.”

Edited December 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[earlinclaifornia]

4 hours ago, rgraham said:

Yesterday marked a great step forward for bureaucrats and socialists, a huge leap off the cliff for 
Americans!

Sounds like you have seen the fall of trump with the same results as him, reacting so depressed. Expect the future to go badly as well. America will be so much better off now that the reality has set in.

[Berkshire]

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I disagree.

He won't resign.

He will self pardon. 

Of course self pardoning has never been tested by the courts.

He might flee the country but I think he is playing a different kind of game.

A very banana republic kind of game.

I think he intends to create a shadow presidency backed by a right wing media empire and large armed militias.

That will be the dare.

Indict him and he will have a real threat to order his minions into civil war.

I have to laugh at this one.  I'm not disagreeing with you about the potential craziness, but what are these "large armed militias" going to do exactly?  We saw what happened when they tried to kidnap Gov. Gretchen.  These right wing nutters talk a good game, but they stand about zero chance against US law enforcement.  And even less against the US military.  These guys talk tough with their big cache of guns, but when in custody, they whimper like little girls. 

[Mavideol]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump's future, like his presidency, is likely to be loud, brash and brazen.

 

8 hours ago, webfact said:

BACK TO TV?

Lock Him Up..... he should be the next resident of Otisville and keep company to some of his gang/associates

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Correctional_Institution,_Otisville#Notable_inmates_(current_and_former)

 

Notable inmates (current and former)

Edited December 16, 2020 by onthedarkside
edited for fair use

[billd766]

5 hours ago, rgraham said:

Trump Foundation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_J._Trump_Foundation

 

The Donald J. Trump Foundation was a New York-based private foundation founded and chaired by Donald Trump which was in operation from 1988 until its court-ordered dissolution in 2019.

Trump created the foundation to help donate proceeds from his book Trump: The Art of the Deal to charitable causes. He stopped contributing personal funds to the foundation in 2008, though he continued to solicit donations from outsiders.[2][3][4]

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I have to laugh at this one.  I'm not disagreeing with you about the potential craziness, but what are these "large armed militias" going to do exactly?  We saw what happened when they tried to kidnap Gov. Gretchen.  These right wing nutters talk a good game, but they stand about zero chance against US law enforcement.  And even less against the US military.  These guys talk tough with their big cache of guns, but when in custody, they whimper like little girls. 

If they get organized and all act at once they become a serious domestic terrorism threat. Don't kid yourself -- that could happen. Of course they aren't going to wage a conventional war against the U.S. armed forces. They won't need to do to that to carry out their assertion of the power of an unhinged alternative "president" trump. Also of course trump will never directly order them to do anything. If he wants them to act, online dog horns will do the trick. I am seeing that as more of a threat of starting a civil war than anything. The U.S. does not have a tradition of throwing ex-presidents in jail. Biden has already strongly signaled that he isn't interested in pursuing that against Mr. trump. That's the federal side. As is my theory, the state side is his most serious threat. Prosecutors might be objective angels in ideal mythical worlds, but in reality they are going to have to grapple with -- is this indictment really worth the consequences? Is this really the best move for the well being of the nation as a whole. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Jingthing

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

You are missing the point.  "Personnel is policy."  Biden will indeed not interfere in DoJ investigations or prosecutions.  However, he will appoint the Attorney General.  He knows as well as you and I do which candidates for that job will want to prosecute Trump and which will decide that it's better for democracy not to.  Therefore, Biden will decide whether there will be such prosecutions or not.  If he were to pick a career prosecutor like your favorite candidate, Preet Bharara, that means Biden is deciding to prosecute Trump.  If, on the other hand, he picks a politician, particularly one who has never been a prosecutor, like the latest name bandied about, NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo, then there will not be a criminal prosecution of Trump by the DoJ.

 

Seems like it shouldn't be necessary to spell it out in such detail.  

I’ve got my opinion and I have my track record on both Biden and Trump.

 

Here’s a fact, we none of yet know the extent of Trump’s crimes, we do know he’s been hiding transcripts of calls with the very same people he is alleged to have conspired with.

 

We also know Bill Barr has been closing down investigations relating to or close to Trump.

 

Let’s see the extent of Trump’s crimes before we accept these fanciful ideas that he will not face Federal prosecution.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

Hold on that thought... Some of Trump's Mar-a-Lago neighbors don't want him back, and they may well have a legal case that he's previously agreed not to live there full-time:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/trump-mar-a-lago-neighbors-dispute/2020/12/15/bc2ce1d0-3ed4-11eb-9453-fc36ba051781_story.html

 

Mar-a-Lago neighbors to Trump: Spend your post-presidency elsewhere

"Next-door neighbors of Mar-a-Lago, President Trump’s private club in Palm Beach, Fla., that he has called his Winter White House, have a message for the outgoing commander in chief: We don’t want you to be our neighbor.

 

That message was formally delivered Tuesday morning in a demand letter delivered to the town of Palm Beach and also addressed to the U.S. Secret Service asserting that Trump lost his legal right to live at Mar-a-Lago because of an agreement he signed in the early 1990s when he converted the storied estate from his private residence to a private club.

 

The legal maneuver could, at long last, force Palm Beach to publicly address whether Trump can make Mar-a-Lago his legal residence and home, as he has been expected to do, when he becomes an ex-president after the swearing-in of Joe Biden on Jan. 20."

I would sure love to see Palm Beach say no to [Trump]. That would be serious fun. Doubt he would be welcome back in NYC either. Maybe he would have to move to Wyoming? Or Dubai. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by onthedarkside
name calling reference removed

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I would sure love to see Palm Beach say no to [Trump]. That would be serious fun. Doubt he would be welcome back in NYC either. Maybe he would have to move to Wyoming? Or Dubai. 

Actually he is welcome in Palm Beach. The problem is that he can't really legally live in Mar-a-lago specifically as his residence unless either the law is changed or they continue to not enforce it. 

[Chomper Higgot]

56 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

That's not how it works.  There is no "procedure" for overturning a pardon.  There is just an indictment like any other.  But then Trump's lawyer trots out the selfie pardon which he hands to the judge explaining when the indictment cannot be charged.  Then the judge decides whether the pardon is legal.   If legal, the indictment is dropped.  If the judge decides that the pardon is not legal, he permits the indictment to go forward.  Trump's legal team would then appeal that decision first to the circuit court of appeals and, if they lose there as well, on to the Supreme Court who will decide whether the Constitution permits a self-pardon or not.  There is no procedure to "test" the self-pardon (or any other pardon) other than to indict the recipient.

 

The value of a pardon for federal crimes is of inestimable value to a career criminal like Trump, all the more so if the wording recapitulates the Nixon pardon "for all crimes which he has committed or may have committed."  Such a pardon would put all of Trump's federal crimes for the past five decades beyond the reach of prosecution.  Trump will realize the enormous benefit of a pardon of that scope, even if it does not protect him from NY State or the District of Columbia, whose AG has also now brought an action against Trump.

 

Yes, jail is jail, more or less, which is why Trump will eventually flee the country if it looks like the State of New York is really closing in.  There is no other way.  

 

I note that Barbara Res, who managed the construction of Trump Tower for Trump along with other projects over 18 years, also expectsTrump to flee the country if he is under criminal prosecution in NY State.

 

Trump certainly cares enormously about face, as you imply, but in my opinion he is not so disconnected from reality as to risk prison on that account. 

 

We'll just have to see.

Be assured there are a number of prosecutors aching to have a crack at testing the ‘self pardon’.

 

If Trump is dumb enough to try it they’ll pounce.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not exactly. 

He could do that.

He won't do that.

Resigning is not his brand.

Also even if he did such a pardon would only be for federal crimes.

It would have no impact on charges from the state of New York. 

My guess is he will stay in, and will pardon his family and himself.

[Bkktodd]

5 hours ago, cmarshall said:

The big question is who will be the new Attorney General of the US.  The Biden administration doesn't want to prosecute Trump, but it's going to be hard justifying giving him a free pass.  Biden will decide the issue by selecting an AG who will do what Biden wants, whatever that is.  Generally, the Democrats show little stomach for a fight, so there is reason to worry.

New york state AG will file charges once he is no longer president. Lock up  his grifter family too. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

My guess is he will stay in, and will pardon his family and himself.

Me too. Word is he may pardon everyone that ever talked to him while in office, and some of them don't even want that because of course it makes them look guilty.