1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Suicides are contagious?

Naa but its the same thinking.

8 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

The economy can't give you a happy ending to your day, but your loved one or bar girl/boy certainly could - unless they're killed by the virus.

Try getting a happy ending when your life is a tale of financial woe!The healthy economy is filled with people trying to survive, take away the health of the economy and take away your happy ending along with the lives of many.

5 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Try getting a happy ending when your life is a tale of financial woe!The healthy economy is filled with people trying to survive, take away the health of the economy and take away your happy ending along with the lives of many.

Yes, but the point is why do people care about the health of the economy more than the health of the people?

 

Governments can give stimmy checks / support workers like the US and UK and most other European nations.

 

Short term pain by closing everything down for a 6-7 week period - and enforcing it stringently to eradicate the virus - is much better for the economy and the people.

so far the only neighbor appearing to be doing the best is Taiwan, maybe better follow their way or whatever there is

 

https://chinapost.nownews.com/20210104-1988192

 

As of press time, 815 cases have been confirmed so far, including 720 imported cases, 56 local infections, 36 cases aboard the Dunmu (敦睦) ship, 1 unknown case and 1 case (case 530) which later tested negative.

Among the confirmed cases, 7 people died, 696 were released from quarantine, and the rest are under quarantine.

3 hours ago, tingtong said:

 

So is the answer a lockdown to bleed to death all those who actually subsidize all, the old, the obese, the sick?

 

Who is the proposed LAST group to receive the vaccine if once it is available?

First the old, the obese, those with conditions....

All the meantime let's risk and make last the group that at the engine of all.

Best to cull the golden egg laying goose!

This case the 18-59 group, preferable men, to be the very last.

Like that make any sense!!

Can proudly save an 89 yo pensioner vs a 35 yo active worker.

The reality, if the 35 yo we don't save, the pensioners will soon enough starve to death most case. 

 

I know the forum is full of elderly here, but put PC talk aside a moment and use common sense. If exist.

 

 

Well said mate. 

How much money does Doctor Thira Woratanarat make in salary each month? Will this salary continue during lockdowns? Probably, don't you think, as an "essential" worker?

Need I say more? 

59 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Seriously?

Do you know of any pandemics where it was shown that masks and lockdowns were proven to be effective and the results recorded for all to see and peer review?This pandemic is not over so it's not known as yet if masks and lockdowns will make any impact on the final outcome.It is not ethical to do the type of experimental study that would prove such a thing.

3 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

when panic took over, rational thinking was gone

 

all wait for your miracle vaccine, that seem not to be protecting if only one dose has been taken and UK want to wait up to 12 weeks....

More fake sh.ite

11 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Do you know of any pandemics where it was shown that masks and lockdowns were proven to be effective and the results recorded for all to see and peer review?This pandemic is not over so it's not known as yet if masks and lockdowns will make any impact on the final outcome.It is not ethical to do the type of experimental study that would prove such a thing.

Your so right but no one wants to hear that. I would argue it has been tried and failed so why do it all again.

1 minute ago, starky said:

Your so right but no one wants to hear that. I would argue it has been tried and failed so why do it all again.

It's been tried and failed so why "not" do it again,sometimes when people try to help they end up makings things worse it's a problem a lot of us suffer from, so sometimes it's better to just leave well enough alone and let nature do it's job of survival or we can meddle just so we can say we won the "war on covid" and justify all the name calling that goes with it.

1 minute ago, FarFlungFalang said:

It's been tried and failed so why "not" do it again,sometimes when people try to help they end up makings things worse it's a problem a lot of us suffer from, so sometimes it's better to just leave well enough alone and let nature do it's job of survival or we can meddle just so we can say we won the "war on covid" and justify all the name calling that goes with it.

Totally agree.

9 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

It's called social responsibility. If a few weeks of my life stuck inside watching TV, playing video games or maybe learning a new language hobby/instrument indoors is going to save everyone and get rid of this virus, then hell yes. Sign me up.

 

Imagine you have a grandma who's 70, but very active and you love her very much. She dies of covid, because lockdown wasn't deemed essential. Would you think, "well, at least our treasured economy is ok, shame about Gammy but 70 years is more than enough for anyone." Or would you be rightously f+++ off at all those people who kept breaking quarantine rules, lockdown rules etc.

A few weeks stuck inside is not going to save everyone and get rid of this virus.

It’s ok for the “jacks” to come out with this lovey dovey stuff about learning a new language or taking up knitting but the reality is people are also losing their lives through lockdown and young people are having theirs ruined by not being able to have a start in life your Granny had. 

 

So so it’s a balance and sadly some Grannys will die so others can live. 

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Lockdown now or face dire consequences like Japan, warns top doc

 

Picture: Daily News

 

Doctor Thira Woratanarat of Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Medicine went online to suggest that Thailand should have a nationwide four week lockdown. 

 

If this did not happen he predicted that the country would end up like Japan that he said experienced eight times the number of infections in the latest wave of coronavirus compared to the first wave. 

 

The death rate in the Asian neighbor was also worse than Thailand, he said on Facebook. 

 

The message from the doctor was clear, Thailand needed a national lockdown now. 

 

Source: Daily News

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2021-01-04

 

 

Agree 100%, this wave is more dangerous than the first wave.

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

A few weeks stuck inside is not going to save everyone and get rid of this virus.

It’s ok for the “jacks” to come out with this lovey dicey stuff about learning a new language or taking up knitting but the reality is people are also losing their lives through lockdown and young people are having theirs ruined by not being able to have a start in life your Granny had. 

 

So so it’s a balance and sadly some Grannys will die so others can live. 

The truth hurts. And this sadly is the truth of it.

8 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

It's called social responsibility. If a few weeks of my life stuck inside watching TV, playing video games or maybe learning a new language hobby/instrument indoors is going to save everyone and get rid of this virus, then hell yes. Sign me up.

Glad you have an inside and a TV and stuff and it's not much of an inconvenience for you but there are many millions that can't get enough food and water when things are good how is it for these people who don't have inside let a lone a tv and games and hobbies these a the forgotten multitudes who have no say in wether they starve or not.There have been many lockdowns around the globe how many have worked and stopped the deaths from occurring in a particular country?

4 minutes ago, starky said:

The truth hurts. And this sadly is the truth of it.

Of course it is. I have two “at risk” elderly parents and also a son who through no fault of his own has no chance of finding work for goodness knows how long so I see both sides. 

 

Fortunately  I don’t have to choose but if I did there would be a balance between the two sides and keep locking down isnt the answer.............unless you can both afford it and doesn’t affect your life. 

 

3 minutes ago, starky said:

Again mate your harping on about the elderly and obese and those with pre existing conditions.  Yes I have got a 70 year old grandmother but I've also got 2 young daughters who's lives are being disproportionately effected in ways that can't be measured by a virus that to them will be no more harmful than a common cold. when the right thing to do is protect my grandmother better.

 My children need to go to school and play and be social and Interact with the world. That's the natural order of things mate whether you like it or not. 

   Couldnt give a rats <deleted> about the economy but I very much care about a world that is trying to teach a generation that it's not safe to go outside or interact with the rest of humanity. To be scared in the face of a virus .

I get that, and appreciate your concern. Younger, fit and healthy people are dying too. It usually only kills the elderly/pre-existing conditioned folks but there are thousands of young and healthy people who die too.

 

My only response is that your children have so many years ahead of them, Grandma doesn't have so many left, and she's possibly already lived through a war or two in her childhood. If the UK for example, shut down stringently for two months like China and stopped letting people fly in and out willy nilly, then they'd be back at school shortly.

28 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Do you know of any pandemics where it was shown that masks and lockdowns were proven to be effective and the results recorded for all to see and peer review?This pandemic is not over so it's not known as yet if masks and lockdowns will make any impact on the final outcome

Do you know of any pandemics where it was shown that masks and lockdowns were proven to be ineffective and the results recorded for all to see and peer review? This pandemic is not over so it's not known as yet if masks and lockdowns will make any impact on the final outcome.

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Do you know of any pandemics where it was shown that masks and lockdowns were proven to be ineffective and the results recorded for all to see and peer review? This pandemic is not over so it's not known as yet if masks and lockdowns will make any impact on the final outcome.

No I don't no of any pandemics where it was shown wether or not masks and lockdowns provide any difference in the final outcome so there is no science to wether lockdowns prevent the spread of the virus,if there is no science to it why do we follow the lockdown path?

5 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

I get that, and appreciate your concern. Younger, fit and healthy people are dying too. It usually only kills the elderly/pre-existing conditioned folks but there are thousands of young and healthy people who die too.

 

My only response is that your children have so many years ahead of them, Grandma doesn't have so many left, and she's possibly already lived through a war or two in her childhood. If the UK for example, shut down stringently for two months like China and stopped letting people fly in and out willy nilly, then they'd be back at school shortly.

I've done quarantine in 4 countries and an Aussie so no stranger to quarantine or lockdowns. If thought doing it again would help im all for it. But your statement is slightly disingenuous because we won't all be saved and the virus won't go away.

  The world is to be passed to the next generation that is it, end of. I hope it doesn't come down to it but the tomorrow's of my children are far more important than any tomorrow my grandmother or I might have. At some point we have to return to normal. 

2 hours ago, scammed said:

the spanish flu killed off the productive and children,

corona kills off those that are about to die this year anyway.

its a big difference imo

Your parents must be so proud of you.

3 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

No I don't no of any pandemics where it was shown wether or not masks and lockdowns provide any difference in the final outcome so there is no science to wether lockdowns prevent the spread of the virus,if there is no science to it why do we follow the lockdown path?

 

From the Lancet - a scientific endorsement of lockdown and virus control measures to contain the remaining virus clusters at the end of lockdown. We need both to get out of this. China still has 20 cases a day - but through effective contact tracing - mandatory qr code apps that scan and trace your movements - they are able to keep infections to a bare minimum and life can resume.

I think everyone could allow a little of their privacy gone for a few months to get rid of this virus. Once everyone has been vaccinated, there would be no more need for the QR codes. Apple has already developed this system and it's anonymous - governments don't like using it because they can't see the data.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

Quote

In the initial phase of the pandemic, many countries instituted lockdowns (general population restrictions, including orders to stay at home and work from home) to slow the rapid spread of the virus. This was essential to reduce mortality, prevent health-care services from being overwhelmed, and buy time to set up pandemic response systems to suppress transmission following lockdown. Although lockdowns have been disruptive, substantially affecting mental and physical health, and harming the economy, these effects have often been worse in countries that were not able to use the time during and after lockdown to establish effective pandemic control systems. In the absence of adequate provisions to manage the pandemic and its societal impacts, these countries have faced continuing restrictions.

 

9 minutes ago, starky said:

I've done quarantine in 4 countries and an Aussie so no stranger to quarantine or lockdowns. If thought doing it again would help im all for it. But your statement is slightly disingenuous because we won't all be saved and the virus won't go away.

  The world is to be passed to the next generation that is it, end of. I hope it doesn't come down to it but the tomorrow's of my children are far more important than any tomorrow my grandmother or I might have. At some point we have to return to normal. 

And I agree with a lot of what you say, but I kind of think that maybe grandma raised us or our parents and taught us a lot.

She perhaps lived through a war and hardships far more severe than right now. Why doesn't she deserve to live an extra 20-30+ years?

We can return to normal with a full 2 month lockdown and no pussyfooting around it this time. At the end of lockdown, we have mandatory tracing apps with anonymous data collection. STOP letting people leave and enter the country willy nilly. China and New Zealand are back to normal because they knew what they had to do.

32 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

It's called social responsibility. If a few weeks of my life stuck inside watching TV, playing video games or maybe learning a new language hobby/instrument indoors is going to save everyone and get rid of this virus, then hell yes. Sign me up......

 

 

 

 

I would offer if a few weeks locked inside would rid the world of the virus pretty much all would enthusiastically agree and be done with it. 

 

However, the flaw in that plan is the virus is out in the world to stay.  It ain't going away in a few weeks.  It ain't going away in a few years most likely.  So no matter how many weeks you stay inside, eventually you have to come out and there it is, waiting to start the cycle over again.  You can hard lock down borders but sooner or later people will trickle in legally or otherwise that have been exposed and start the cycle again.

 

This thing is always going to be with us and until enough of the population are exposed either natually or by vaccine it is to be dealt with.  Lockdowns only delay exposure, not eliminate exposure.

16 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

 

I would offer if a few weeks locked inside would rid the world of the virus pretty much all would enthusiastically agree and be done with it. 

 

However, the flaw in that plan is the virus is out in the world to stay.  It ain't going away in a few weeks.  It ain't going away in a few years most likely.  So no matter how many weeks you stay inside, eventually you have to come out and there it is, waiting to start the cycle over again.  You can hard lock down borders but sooner or later people will trickle in legally or otherwise that have been exposed and start the cycle again.

 

This thing is always going to be with us and until enough of the population are exposed either natually or by vaccine it is to be dealt with.  Lockdowns only delay exposure, not eliminate exposure.

 

Well said. And scientifically, your spot on. Lockdowns bring the virus numbers tumbling down - leave a lockdown too early and it's a pointless 4 week pause on life. 2 months locked down is more likely, then a virus rapid response team needs to be ready to find and trace the remaining clusters. Total compliance with strict and draconian punishments need to be introduced to get this thing under wraps. We have vaccines now so if we did this properly, we could be looking at the end of this thing by the end of the year.

 

When lockdown ends, people can't just go about their daily lives as if everything is normal - mask wearing (not the infamous chin diaper - put it over your nose and mouth ALL THE TIME outside of the home), social distancing and temp checks before entering stores etc. are all neccessary. Stop hugging every person you meet for christs sake! No jumping on a plane and holidaying in Spain on the beach and partying like nothing is different. stop international travel, and only have bubbles with countries who have contained the virus.

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

"I am so sorry. I could have stopped this from happening. Same goes for my health minister. We are both handing in our resignation, starting tomorrow. It is the right thing to do. I now realize both myself and Anutin have been way over our heads, this entire time. We take responsibility. Forgive us, if u can, but we will never forgive ourselves for failing you, the people of Thailand. 

 

if only my wife talked like this. 

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

The Great Reset.

 

there is a little merit to this but not in the conspiracy sense......

 

 

5 hours ago, greenmonkey said:

For people that keep saying lockdowns don't work - it worked pretty well here in Thailand the first time around right!? We have lived the last 6 months with little restrictions and little worry.... right!? So why not do the same again....?

 

Businesses might be complaining they cannot afford to shut down again but guess what.... let covid spread and then be forced into lockdown later - the lockdown will be a lot longer and lot harder!

 

The first Lock down worked? Really? The virus was first detected in Thailand in January. The lockdown was the end of March almost three months later. 

23 minutes ago, mr mr said:

 

there is a little merit to this but not in the conspiracy sense......

 

 

so the conspiracy was right after all, climate change is about wealth transfer,

from west to rest of the world

3 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

Well said. And scientifically, your spot on. Lockdowns bring the virus numbers tumbling down - leave a lockdown too early and it's a pointless 4 week pause on life. 2 months locked down is more likely, then a virus rapid response team needs to be ready to find and trace the remaining clusters. Total compliance with strict and draconian punishments need to be introduced to get this thing under wraps. We have vaccines now so if we did this properly, we could be looking at the end of this thing by the end of the year.

 

When lockdown ends, people can't just go about their daily lives as if everything is normal - mask wearing (not the infamous chin diaper - put it over your nose and mouth ALL THE TIME outside of the home), social distancing and temp checks before entering stores etc. are all neccessary. Stop hugging every person you meet for christs sake! No jumping on a plane and holidaying in Spain on the beach and partying like nothing is different. stop international travel, and only have bubbles with countries who have contained the virus.

A life without hugs, is not a life. I pity what must be yours.