Which diesel you're using / recommending?

[Andycoops]

PTT B7, Vigo prerunner 3.0, 2008

No issues.

[Darkside Gray]

The one at the pump I pull up to!

[thaisail]

12 hours ago, heiri007 said:

So as a diesel engineer, you go for the plain basic diesel or the one with biodiesel?

Palm oil is used primarily to blend with diesel fuel and palm oil is a solvent. It is good on the one hand in that it can clean your engine internally but it is bad in that the dirt accumulated in process can plug up your fuel filters. Biodiesel is not suitable for cold temperatures so if you live high in the mountains around Loei and Chiang Mai, you can have some problems with B10 or B20. Biodiesel is a blended fuel so in long term storage, it may begin to separate. As a solvent, there can be an adverse effect on the rubber found in the engine. If the engine manufacturer used the materials that can hold up to the solvent from vegitable oil, there should be no problem to burn this blended fuel. My results in fuel economy are not good with B10. I am burning between 2-3 liters more per 1000 km compared to what I was burning before. 

 

The problem is really political. Europe, especially Germany wanted to use biodiesel and they subsidized all the palm oil plantations in SE Asia. In 2018, Europe did a U-turn and decided to stop all palm oil production subsidies in 2021. The fact is that palm oil production has resulted in massive deforestation in SE Asia and the fuel made from palm oil has been found to produce 3 times more greenhouse gases than other vegitable based biofuels. Unfortunately these palm oil plantations have a 20 year life cycle and as Europe stops burning Palm oil the price of the palm oil will go down and this makes it attractive to countries like Thailand who want to import less mineral oil from other countries. Also many wealthy Thai landowners have invested heavily in palm oil plantations and they have lobbied the Thai government to make legislation to make palm oil a mandatory componant in our diesel fuel. There are massive protests now in Europe to ban the importation of palm oil that will be used in biodiesel. I am sure that there is also a movement in Thailand to do the same but they don't seem to be getting anywhere. My feeling is that we should all do our best to use the minimum palm oil possible which at the moment is B7 from what I have heard. My Ford Ranger is now 10 years old and I will squeeze as many years out of it as I can in the hope that electric cars and trucks will finally be produced in Thailand at a competitive price and that a charging infrastructure will be built so that we can go anywhere in our EVs. Or hydrogen may also be used as a good clean burning fuel. China has just started the first fusion reactor and the research is looking good for electricity production. Solar cell prices and lithium batteries have gone down lower in price. When you see what is happening in Bangkok with air pollution, we can see that it is time for everyone to make a change in their priorities. 

[fredob43]

15 hours ago, thaisail said:

Just be aware that Premium is just B7 with some additives. If you buy the additive at the auto parts store and add it to your tank when filling, you should save a lot of money. However as a diesel engineer, I find that these additives are not very useful with diesel engines.

Thank you for the information. Sorry to much of a bother. If you think anyone/I'm going to buy additives, then work out how much to put in then Guess/amount of fuel? it would take to fill the tank. Just not going to happen. I might save a 100bht on a full tank + time to set everything up. 

 

So much easier to just pull up tell the staff how much I want or fill the tank up and drive off. Life's to short to faff about trying to save a few pence.

 

If it was a hire car I would put the cheapest stuff in as long as it works. But having been recommended by Toyota to use Pre: in the 2.8lt that's what I will continue to do. Old adage if you cant afford to run a car you shouldn't buy one. 

[thaisail]

1 hour ago, fredob43 said:

Thank you for the information. Sorry to much of a bother. If you think anyone/I'm going to buy additives, then work out how much to put in then Guess/amount of fuel? it would take to fill the tank. Just not going to happen. I might save a 100bht on a full tank + time to set everything up. 

 

So much easier to just pull up tell the staff how much I want or fill the tank up and drive off. Life's to short to faff about trying to save a few pence.

 

If it was a hire car I would put the cheapest stuff in as long as it works. But having been recommended by Toyota to use Pre: in the 2.8lt that's what I will continue to do. Old adage if you cant afford to run a car you shouldn't buy one. 

As a diesel engineer, I can see the benefit of burning premium diesel once every 10 fill ups but using ordinary diesel in any diesel engine is just fine. Every 10,000 Km, Ford puts in a small bottle of injector cleaner in a full tank of what I thought was normal grade diesel. I found out later that in 2014, Thailand made all grades of diesel B7 including premium. I haven't had any issues burning normal grade of diesel so I think it is OK to use B7. However Premium also contains B7 so the difference is only the additive. In the long run, in my opinion if you put the injector cleaning chemical in your fuel tank once every 10,000 Km, you will be fine but keep in mind that Bio diesel made with palm oil in Europe is now banned mainly because of the rain forest deforestation. So the less you use of palm oil the better. Unfortunately the powers that be want you to support their palm oil industry and that is really sad for the human race. Going to B10 will be doing even more damage to the environment.

 

Remember that Premium diesel is a marketing issue, if they can squeeze some more money out of you at the PPT or Shell gas stations their stock price will go up! Remember that the dealer where you bought your car or truck will tell you to burn premium but my guess is that those same people that tell you that will buy ordinary diesel in their own cars. The best is to start looking at electric or hydrogen vehicles which is going to be imposed on everyone in the next 20 years anyway. Internal combustion engines have a very limited future just like the horse in the end of the 10th century!

[fredob43]

31 minutes ago, thaisail said:

As a diesel engineer, I can see the benefit of burning premium diesel once every 10 fill ups but using ordinary diesel in any diesel engine is just fine. Every 10,000 Km, Ford puts in a small bottle of injector cleaner in a full tank of what I thought was normal grade diesel. I found out later that in 2014, Thailand made all grades of diesel B7 including premium. I haven't had any issues burning normal grade of diesel so I think it is OK to use B7. However Premium also contains B7 so the difference is only the additive. In the long run, in my opinion if you put the injector cleaning chemical in your fuel tank once every 10,000 Km, you will be fine but keep in mind that Bio diesel made with palm oil in Europe is now banned mainly because of the rain forest deforestation. So the less you use of palm oil the better. Unfortunately the powers that be want you to support their palm oil industry and that is really sad for the human race. Going to B10 will be doing even more damage to the environment.

 

Remember that Premium diesel is a marketing issue, if they can squeeze some more money out of you at the PPT or Shell gas stations their stock price will go up! Remember that the dealer where you bought your car or truck will tell you to burn premium but my guess is that those same people that tell you that will buy ordinary diesel in their own cars. The best is to start looking at electric or hydrogen vehicles which is going to be imposed on everyone in the next 20 years anyway. Internal combustion engines have a very limited future just like the horse in the end of the 10th century!

I have no doubt that your correct. In my case a full tank, unless I was doing a big run (not likely with this Covid 19 thing) will last me almost 2 months. So every 9 months I will need to put injector fluid cleaner in. Last time I looked that was around 400+BHT. I thought that Pre: diesel had that in already, so no need to stick it in. OK Pre: is more expensive but by the time you work it out for me not worth the effort. 

 

Now if you are doing big Mileage/KM it would make a big difference using the B7 as against Pre.

N/B I used to use Pre: in my last 3lt chipped Tuna. That used to drink fuel. Owned that for almost 9 years and never a problem with injectors. Hopefully should never??? have a problem with the 2.8lt Tuna injector's. Who knows. 

[transam]

59 minutes ago, thaisail said:

As a diesel engineer, I can see the benefit of burning premium diesel once every 10 fill ups but using ordinary diesel in any diesel engine is just fine. Every 10,000 Km, Ford puts in a small bottle of injector cleaner in a full tank of what I thought was normal grade diesel. I found out later that in 2014, Thailand made all grades of diesel B7 including premium. I haven't had any issues burning normal grade of diesel so I think it is OK to use B7. However Premium also contains B7 so the difference is only the additive. In the long run, in my opinion if you put the injector cleaning chemical in your fuel tank once every 10,000 Km, you will be fine but keep in mind that Bio diesel made with palm oil in Europe is now banned mainly because of the rain forest deforestation. So the less you use of palm oil the better. Unfortunately the powers that be want you to support their palm oil industry and that is really sad for the human race. Going to B10 will be doing even more damage to the environment.

 

Remember that Premium diesel is a marketing issue, if they can squeeze some more money out of you at the PPT or Shell gas stations their stock price will go up! Remember that the dealer where you bought your car or truck will tell you to burn premium but my guess is that those same people that tell you that will buy ordinary diesel in their own cars. The best is to start looking at electric or hydrogen vehicles which is going to be imposed on everyone in the next 20 years anyway. Internal combustion engines have a very limited future just like the horse in the end of the 10th century!

That's another topic....

[teacherclaire]

On 1/14/2021 at 9:51 AM, Kwasaki said:

The cheapest.

Some gas stations sell the same Diesel for different prices anyway.

 

      Buy the cheapest, then you know it's always fresh and never rots in a tank. 

[SiamRead]

17 hours ago, Telluride said:

used to use the "regular" ptt diesel but good lord that was some low performance fuel.  now look for premium diesel at Shell Esso or PTT in that order of preference.   Shell calls it V-power.   getting about 23 mpg with it.

By the way, what vehicle you use that have a mpg reading ?

[PGSan]

On 1/14/2021 at 11:04 AM, NanLaew said:

the mileage calculator has gone from . . . 

What calculator is this?   Sounds more like fuel consumption than miles that it calculates, or am I missing something?  

[PGSan]

57 minutes ago, transam said:

the horse in the end of the 10th century!

The horse in around 1000AD?  What happened then? 

[PGSan]

1 hour ago, fredob43 said:

big Mileage/KM

My mileage per kilometer stays remarkably constant.  Why should it get big? 

[fredob43]

23 minutes ago, PGSan said:

What calculator is this?   Sounds more like fuel consumption than miles that it calculates, or am I missing something?  

Maybe a brain Cell.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, teacherclaire said:

Some gas stations sell the same Diesel for different prices anyway.

 

      Buy the cheapest, then you know it's always fresh and never rots in a tank. 

I always use PTT they do 2 now just labeled diesel & B7. 

Use to use B10 when they had it as that was the cheapest at the time. 

[transam]

1 hour ago, PGSan said:

The horse in around 1000AD?  What happened then? 

Can you explain this post, and where did you get where I said am supposed to have said...

"The horse in the end of the  10th century" from.?..????

 

[teacherclaire]

58 minutes ago, transam said:

Can you explain this post, and where did you get where I said am supposed to have said...

"The horse in the end of the  10th century" from.?..????

 

Perhaps he meant who_es? 

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, PGSan said:

What calculator is this?   Sounds more like fuel consumption than miles that it calculates, or am I missing something?  

The automated, digital dashboard calculator that Ford programs to give drivers a 3 or 4-digit "Km till empty" number on the dashboard. A digital fuel tank gauge.

 

For example, when it shows a number that's less than 10 km, I pull into the pump station, stick 1000 bahts worth of go-juice in the tank and it then shows a number round about 498 km.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I always use PTT they do 2 now just labeled diesel & B7. 

Use to use B10 when they had it as that was the cheapest at the time. 

 

At all the PTT's around Udon, most pumps offer B7 which is flagged as B7. Some have one or two pumps flagged with a slightly darker blue diesel sign which is the cheaper B10.

[thaisail]

6 hours ago, PGSan said:

The horse in around 1000AD?  What happened then? 

OOPs I meant 19th century, when the horseless carriage came on the scene.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

At all the PTT's around Udon, most pumps offer B7 which is flagged as B7. Some have one or two pumps flagged with a slightly darker blue diesel sign which is the cheaper B10.

Thanks same in Suk didn't know it was B10 don't why they don't label it like before as B10.

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Thanks same in Suk didn't know it was B10 don't why they don't label it like before as B10.

It looks like maybe they have a stockpile of the more expensive B7 they want to offload first?

 

My nearest PTT pump station up here has only two B10 pumps while the other 10 pumps are B7. Be interesting to know the B7/B10 pump ratio at your local PTT in Bangkok.

[Mama Noodle]

14 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

At all the PTT's around Udon, most pumps offer B7 which is flagged as B7. Some have one or two pumps flagged with a slightly darker blue diesel sign which is the cheaper B10.

 

Maybe it’s been talked about already. I mentioned it on the first page, but you gotta be observant because Thailand changed their fuel classes to support the palm oil industry. 
 

NOW the dark blue “Diesel” signs are SUPPOSED to all mean B10 as standard. Previously the dark blue signs meant B7. 
 

In practice it’s all over the place and you really gotta look at the individual pumps themselves for the blend you want. In my little town, the signage is still all over the place. One side of the station says “Diesel” but it’s B7 and the other side says the same but it’s written B10. 
 

Rather annoying when it all rolled out. 

[Mama Noodle]

11 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Thanks same in Suk didn't know it was B10 don't why they don't label it like before as B10.

Thai regs changed. Diesel means B10 now. Used to mean B7. 
 

Still gotta watch out though, doesn’t mean the hands at the pumps know what’s going on or the signage is correct. 

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

It looks like maybe they have a stockpile of the more expensive B7 they want to offload first?

 

My nearest PTT pump station up here has only two B10 pumps while the other 10 pumps are B7. Be interesting to know the B7/B10 pump ratio at your local PTT in Bangkok.

I don't think PTT in our area off loading they are trying to standardize the diesel they sell after monitoring sales of whats sold.

 

They have stopped selling B20 because it wasn't selling because although the cheapest not many older diesel engine vehicles could use it.

 

My Isuzu 1.9 could and I think some late diesel engine models can to but many other diesel engines need adjustment, that's if they can be adjusted.

 

B7 has always been the norm for diesel.

B10 can be used in most diesel engines and only about 1 baht more than B20.

[Kwasaki]

21 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

One side of the station says “Diesel” but it’s B7 and the other side says the same but it’s written B10. 
 

Rather annoying when it all rolled out. 

Use the cheapest side of the pump. ????

[Kwasaki]

21 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

Thai regs changed. Diesel means B10 now. Used to mean B7. 
 

Still gotta watch out though, doesn’t mean the hands at the pumps know what’s going on or the signage is correct. 

Not a big problem to use either in diesel motors but B20 can be.

[Telluride]

On 1/16/2021 at 3:40 PM, SiamRead said:

By the way, what vehicle you use that have a mpg reading ?

my vehicle dashboard shows metric units, i just like using imperial units sometimes.  miles per gallon,  zero to sixty mph, a forty ouncer, and the like.

[heiri007]

Thanks for the inputs all - still dunno what to get when heading for the first time to the pump with with a new B20-approved truck.

 

Ran my petrol CR-V 2007 always on Gasohol 91 - had to change the fuel injectors recently, but that's about it.

 

Temperatures where I live never fall below 20 degrees, so that's a plus for biodiesel.

 

Maybe B20 as the rule - and every fifth refill or so get the proper V-Power or Premium.

 

Biodiesel does produce less of those small ugly particles in the air, that's a fact. But the well-being of my car and therefore me is no less important.

 

 

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, heiri007 said:

Biodiesel does produce less of those small ugly particles in the air, that's a fact. But the well-being of my car and therefore me is no less important.

Better educate yourself -

How did all that forest get cut down and prepared for cultivation of Palm Oil trees ?

Yep - by burning diesel fuel, and burning the excess vegetation prior to planting.

Your "Green" fuel should be called "Pitch Black"

[Yellowtail]

Biodiesel and Gasohol both do much more environmental harm than good.