Biden swiftly begins sweeping away Trump's immigration barriers

[Poet]

36 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The news from Europe is always on European countries getting more tough on migrants. Where did you get your news? 

Eric, I don't know where you come from, but you really don't understand the situation in Europe. The differing responses of different governments to the migrant crisis of 2015 and 2016 caused permanent damage to the European Union.

Also, if the German chancellor had not chosen to declare that all arrivals would be accepted by Europe, and if those horrific images had not dominated the news that summer, it is certain that the Brexit referendum would have gone the other way. It is hard to explain to an outsider just how consequential that result was, and will continue to be, for both the UK and the EU. The repercussions will continue for decades.

@Deli is correctly pointing out that this issue is a huge deal for many people in America and, just as happened in Europe, it could cause fundamental changes to the country.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Poet

[Mama Noodle]

23 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

It was actually Reagan who signed a sweeping immigration bill which include amnesty for illegals which was shocking from the father of modern conservatives. Do Dems taking a page from Reagan.

 

 

Its why nobody listens to Democrats anymore about illegal immigration. The reagan amnesty was an attempt to resolve the issue permanently, the left, like always, didn't hold up their side, and here we are decades later with 4 or 5 times MORE illegals in the country they want to give amnesty to. 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
personal comment removed

[onthedarkside]

A post making an unsubstantiated claim regarding a politician's statement has been removed, along with several personal comment posts aimed at other forum members.

 

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, Poet said:

Eric, I don't know where you come from, but you really don't understand the situation in Europe. The differing responses of different governments to the migrant crisis of 2015 and 2016 caused permanent damage to the European Union.

Also, if the German chancellor had not chosen to declare that all arrivals would be accepted by Europe, and if those horrific images had not dominated the news that summer, it is certain that the Brexit referendum would have gone the other way. It is hard to explain to an outsider just how consequential that result was, and will continue to be, for both the UK and the EU. The repercussions will continue for decades.

@Deli is correctly pointing out that this issue is a huge deal for many people in America and, just as happened in Europe, it could cause fundamental changes to the country.

 

My conversation with Deli was about Europe getting tougher on migrants which they did. You on a different topic all together. Merkel's migrant gamble actually paid off in her elections. 

[Eric Loh]

23 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Its why nobody listens to Democrats anymore about illegal immigration. The reagan amnesty was an attempt to resolve the issue permanently, the left, like always, didn't hold up their side, and here we are decades later with 4 or 5 times MORE illegals in the country they want to give amnesty to. 

 

 

Obama has tried in his 8 years in office to overhaul the immigration laws but the Reps in Congress too didn't hold up to their side. Bush, Clinton, Obama and Trump tried but nothing fully materialized. Lot of blame to go around for decades. 

[Poet]

22 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

My conversation with Deli was about Europe getting tougher on migrants which they did.

He asked you to wind the clock back to 2015 which is when the migrant crisis began but it became significantly worse in 2016.

 

22 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Merkel's migrant gamble actually paid off in her elections. 

Her actions fueled the rise of a Alternative für Deutschland, an anti-migration party which in 2017 came out of nowhere to become the third largest party in Germany, with 94 seats in the parliament. 

Merkel only remained in power by entering into a coalition with very reluctant partners. The president of Germany had to personally persuade the leader of the other large party to agree. Only a third of voters wanted Merkel to remain the leader of the coalition, with half wanting her to stand down before the end of her term.

Anger about her actions, which she did not discuss beforehand with her cabinet, dogged her own party for years, leading to the 2018 asylum government crisis during which her Interior Minister threatened to quit, massively damaging her authority in the party.

Eric, seriously, you are completely misinterpreting what happened in Europe. All of this has rocked countries that, just a few years ago, were remarkably stable, and it completely stuffed the career of Merkel, who had been Chancellor since 2005 and, until the migrant crisis, one of the most success politicians in modern German history.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Poet

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

 

A simple progressive solution to the immigrant 'issue' is to stop thinking of them as a problem. Immigrants from deprived backgrounds then to work harder, try hard to integrate, bring special skills, pay their taxes and made serious attempts to integrate with the communities. There is really no serious arguments that demonstrate a long term damage to countries that accept immigrants. Canada welcome immigrants which enrich their economy and incidence of hate crimes decline. Biden is on the right track on this immigration issue by not demonizing them and seeking to work with the countries where these immigrants originate. 

It depends on where the immigrants come from, and their culture. Australia has had quite a lot of success with Dutch, Greek, Chinese and Italian immigrants, mostly law-abiding and hard-working. Thais too. OTOH, Lebanese and Sudanese immigrants are over-represented in the crime statistics, the first for drug-dealing, the second for violence. That's part and parcel of the culture they came from.

[Mama Noodle]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Obama has tried in his 8 years in office to overhaul the immigration laws but the Reps in Congress too didn't hold up to their side. Bush, Clinton, Obama and Trump tried but nothing fully materialized. Lot of blame to go around for decades. 

 

 

Its dead simple. The left wants those illegal aliens to bolster their base. The right will not allow them that huge power grab. 

 

And lately the left has taken to a further subversion of the laws and forcing them to be counted on the census and allowing sanctuary cities for illegal aliens to find safe harbor. Why? Because if they do that, they get more funding, more representation. 

 

This is the game thats played with these people in the middle. And the message the left sends is that as long as you make it here, youll be safe. And they keep coming. One way or another. 

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, mr mr said:

changing and updating the countries immigration policies is great. 

 

if you took a sample of 11 million people from any region in the world you are going to find good and bad people within that group. how does one wade through this  mess in rewarding those with legit claims vs those trying to game the system. not an easy job at all. 

 

fun fact though. the USA takes in more immigrants than any other country in the world.  

The USA is a country made up of immigrants.  Everyone there is an immigrant apart from the original American Indians who were badly treated by the original immigrants.  Were the original immigrants there legally?  Were they invited?

 

The USA owes it's success to immigrants.

[EVENKEEL]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It depends on where the immigrants come from, and their culture. Australia has had quite a lot of success with Dutch, Greek, Chinese and Italian immigrants, mostly law-abiding and hard-working. Thais too. OTOH, Lebanese and Sudanese immigrants are over-represented in the crime statistics, the first for drug-dealing, the second for violence. That's part and parcel of the culture they came from.

Did these immigrants swim over and enter illegally. Bet not, I'll bet they applied with paperwork. The same people who are aghast at the low wages are the same ones waving in the illegals who play a part in the low wages in America. Amazing....

[mr mr]

8 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The USA is a country made up of immigrants.  Everyone there is an immigrant apart from the original American Indians who were badly treated by the original immigrants.  Were the original immigrants there legally?  Were they invited?

 

where did the natives come from ? they are not actually native to north america in the first place. human beings have been moving on this planet since the dawn of time.

 

we are talking about modern times and not the ravaging of a land hundreds of years ago. start a thread if you want to talk about that.  

[Sujo]

24 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

 

Its dead simple. The left wants those illegal aliens to bolster their base. The right will not allow them that huge power grab. 

 

And lately the left has taken to a further subversion of the laws and forcing them to be counted on the census and allowing sanctuary cities for illegal aliens to find safe harbor. Why? Because if they do that, they get more funding, more representation. 

 

This is the game thats played with these people in the middle. And the message the left sends is that as long as you make it here, youll be safe. And they keep coming. One way or another. 

Illegal immigrants can vote? An alternative fact.

 

For your other concerns take it up with the constitutionthat you admire so much.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Sujo

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, mr mr said:

 

where did the natives come from ? they are not actually native to north america in the first place. human beings have been moving on this planet since the dawn of time.

 

we are talking about modern times and not the ravaging of a land hundreds of years ago. start a thread if you want to talk about that.  

So you acknowledge it is just a timeline you are talking about.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

If manage to sneak into the USA, and Democrats give you eventual citizenship for your actions, that is de-facto open borders. 

 

Everyone knows this, including you, and the Democrats, and you all expect everyone else to buy your hogwash, 

 

Opinions  are not a substitute for facts as requested - accordingly your post is, to use your term, "hogwash". Proposed IMMI legislation is yet to be finalised, there will be negotiations, have to wait and see the final outcomes.

[Mike k]

2 hours ago, wasabi said:

Most of the illegal aliens have limited education, English skills and the ability to earn money in the modern economy, yes some can acquire those skills but many won't. We don't need menial labor like we used to so what will they do? Not sure how they will survive in the US without significant government subsidization. If they were able to be productive, pay taxes and contribute to social security I'd feel more positive about their presence but as it is automation will be displacing many in the coming years. That looks set to accelerate with our friends south of the border coming in. This is not something I say out of fear of different races, white privilege or concern for myself. I am already wealthy and comfortable around diversity. But other than being a social justice warrior cause I'm not sure how smart blanket amnesty is.

FWIW I voted for Joe Biden and this does not come as a shock. I am delighted Trump is gone, but Biden is not necessarily the sharpest stick in the stack either.

When taxes go up hope your happy 

[Mama Noodle]

30 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Opinions  are not a substitute for facts as requested - accordingly your post is, to use your term, "hogwash". Proposed IMMI legislation is yet to be finalised, there will be negotiations, have to wait and see the final outcomes.

 

We are not commenting on the "final outcome" we are commenting on what's written in the OP and put forward by Joe Bidens administration. 

 

Any way you slice it, allowing MILLIONS of illegal aliens any kind of amnesty is a power grab, a reward for breaking laws (while millions of Americans rot in jail for far less) an alienation of citizen taxpayer voters, and de-facto open borders. 

 

It'll never pass, but the democrat message is crystal clear regardless of the outcome. 

[crobe]

While I don't know the actual status of the right-wing leaning US members on here such as Mama Noodle et al, it is a good bet that many of them are here in Thailand, on work, retirement or family visas, and have not gone through the process of becoming Thai citizens (which is very difficult).

If the Thai government were to take a Trumpian bent then it could cancel or refuse to continue these visas - making such people illegal - a situation that has happened to many of the people they categorize as illegal aliens in the US (68% of the "illegal aliens" in the US originally came on work or other temporary visas which were not renewed and legally have to leave). Laws change according to political whim

This is regardless of whether they have family, steady jobs or not.

While these people would argue that they are abiding by the laws in Thailand, true, it does not alter the fact that many are in exactly the same situation as their "illegal alien" US counterparts should the laws be equivalent.

 

This becomes hypocritical when they cite such moralistic arguments such as "the country is too full", "there are too many of them" "they are changing the culture" as all of these arguments could also be levelled at the foreigners in Thailand - if they truly believed these arguments to be correct, then they should leave on principle.

 

[Mike k]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

1. Undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. don't get/aren't eligible for "significant government subsidization."

 

2. I don't think the Biden Admin. is proposing a "blanket amnesty" for undocumented immigrants in the country now, unless by that you mean his proposed EIGHT YEAR path toward possible legalization and citizenship, which would include:

 

"Under the legislation, those living in the U.S. as of Jan. 1, 2021, without legal status would have a five-year path to temporary legal status, or a green card, if they pass background checks, pay taxes and fulfill other basic requirements. From there, it’s a three-year path to naturalization, if they decide to pursue citizenship."

 

https://apnews.com/article/biden-8-year-citizenship-path-immigrants-4f2dffdb7a688e1e126a62a8acd59730

 

And all of that is just his legislative proposal, which has to be considered by a divided Congress. It's a starting point for a possible discussion.

 

 

Congress isn't divided now democrats run the house and kamila is the tie breaker in the senate 

[mr mr]

51 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

So you acknowledge it is just a timeline you are talking about.

yeses the one we are living.

[Sujo]

Just now, Mama Noodle said:

 

We are not commenting on the "final outcome" we are commenting on what's written in the OP and put forward by Joe Bidens administration. 

 

Any way you slice it, allowing MILLIONS of illegal aliens any kind of amnesty is a power grab, a reward for breaking laws (while millions of Americans rot in jail for far less) an alienation of citizen taxpayer voters, and de-facto open borders. 

 

It'll never pass, but the democrat message is crystal clear regardless of the outcome. 

what laws did children break when coming to us With their parents 

[Mama Noodle]

5 minutes ago, Sujo said:

what laws did children break when coming to us With their parents 

 

People who came here as literal children should absolutely be able to stay, but they should not be able to use their status for anyone or anything other than themselves IE bringing over the rest of their family. 

[Mike k]

10 minutes ago, crobe said:

While I don't know the actual status of the right-wing leaning US members on here such as Mama Noodle et al, it is a good bet that many of them are here in Thailand, on work, retirement or family visas, and have not gone through the process of becoming Thai citizens (which is very difficult).

If the Thai government were to take a Trumpian bent then it could cancel or refuse to continue these visas - making such people illegal - a situation that has happened to many of the people they categorize as illegal aliens in the US (68% of the "illegal aliens" in the US originally came on work or other temporary visas which were not renewed and legally have to leave). Laws change according to political whim

This is regardless of whether they have family, steady jobs or not.

While these people would argue that they are abiding by the laws in Thailand, true, it does not alter the fact that many are in exactly the same situation as their "illegal alien" US counterparts should the laws be equivalent.

 

This becomes hypocritical when they cite such moralistic arguments such as "the country is too full", "there are too many of them" "they are changing the culture" as all of these arguments could also be levelled at the foreigners in Thailand - if they truly believed these arguments to be correct, then they should leave on principle.

 

Trump wanted to vet the immigrants the only group he wanted to keep out were Muslims. Apply for a visa get checked out then come in same as we do here one difference in the US the spouse of a citizen can get a green card good for 10 years no 90-day check in no large amount of money tied up in a bank that you can't use 

[Mama Noodle]

1 minute ago, Mike k said:

the US the spouse of a citizen can get a green card good for 10 years no 90-day check in no large amount of money tied up in a bank that you can't use 

 

Spouse can get a green card instantly (after the process) and within 4 years apply for citizenship. Children get instant citizenship. Thailand, never on both counts. Thailand's immigration policy is about 10,000 times worse than any Trump policy. 

[skorp13]

Great! Here comes more crime higher taxes, more over crowded doctors offices and hospitals along with higher unemployment. Welcome Joe!

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

People who came here as literal children should absolutely be able to stay, but they should not be able to use their status for anyone or anything other than themselves IE bringing over the rest of their family. 

 

Should have the exact same rights as US citizens (once gained) / lawful gained permanent residency. One trusts trump era efforts at State sanctioned abuse of Universal Human Rights will no longer occur.

 

 

[wasabi]

35 minutes ago, Mike k said:

When taxes go up hope your happy 

I'm a Florida resident and most of my money is in Roth IRAs withdrawn gradually at levels that place me legally below federal taxation, so this is not something I spend much time pondering. I am not happy or unhappy about the hordes of illegal immigrants. I am saying one way or another they are likely to take more than they give economically to the US and which is most likely to effect the middle class and have less jobs and resources available to them. Probably better to help these illegal immigrants in their own countries since natural resources are not infinite. But many people view this issue beyond simple math and want to "feel" they are doing the right thing. Primary reason I voted for Biden is my family purchases health insurance through Obamacare and I only trusted him to assure it continues.  I vote for issues that effect me personally, the rest is mostly theatre.

Edited January 21, 2021 by wasabi

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, skorp13 said:

Great! Here comes more crime higher taxes, more over crowded doctors offices and hospitals along with higher unemployment. Welcome Joe!

 

Here we go again with trump era BS. e.g. migrant crime rates are lower than for US citizens. 

[crobe]

24 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Spouse can get a green card instantly (after the process) and within 4 years apply for citizenship. Children get instant citizenship. Thailand, never on both counts. Thailand's immigration policy is about 10,000 times worse than any Trump policy. 

Not so,

Under Trump proposals (although blocked by courts) he intended to remove the citizenship of people born in the US if they had illegal immigrant parents

He also separated families and put the children into cages

Much worse than anything proposed in Thailand

 

Under Trump criteria you should leave and take any children with you

Edited January 21, 2021 by crobe

[crobe]

21 minutes ago, skorp13 said:

Great! Here comes more crime higher taxes, more over crowded doctors offices and hospitals along with higher unemployment. Welcome Joe!

Kick out all those people whose great-grandparents were not born in the US - they all came illegally

That will fix the problem

 

[simple1]

 

54 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

We are not commenting on the "final outcome" we are commenting on what's written in the OP and put forward by Joe Bidens administration. 

 

Any way you slice it, allowing MILLIONS of illegal aliens any kind of amnesty is a power grab, a reward for breaking laws (while millions of Americans rot in jail for far less) an alienation of citizen taxpayer voters, and de-facto open borders. 

 

It'll never pass, but the democrat message is crystal clear regardless of the outcome. 

 

Manipulating demographics is utilised by both parties, trump admin was very, very active trying to disenfranchise Dem voters in the millions. Due to trump's many errors of judgement Dems now control the House and Senate, so wouldn't assume the legislation will never pass, there will be negotiations.

Edited January 21, 2021 by simple1