Bitcoin is now above usd$51k. If I want to sell in Thailand what about tax?

[jack71]

I have been living in Thailand for ages and used to be a teacher. Have paid tax here before but not in the last couple of yrs because I have not be working.

 

Years ago I sent money from my bank back in the mother country to an exchange in the States and purchased bitcoin. Actually I purchased it from a few exchanges and just held onto it. I passed KYC at a major exchange in the States years ago.

 

Im an non resident of my mother country for tax purposes so I know I dont have to pay any tax there.

 

But I assume I will have to pay it here? Otherwise if my bank starts to report large deposits from a thai exchange I could get into hot water...

 

I'm unsure how competent my local tax office will be with regards to reporting a capital gain on bitcoin. I suppose I should go via an 'accountant'.

 

Anyone have any knowledge on this subject

 

Thanks kindly and lets assume the next stop for BTC is usd100k by the end of 2021...

[Heng]

If it's a largish amount, it might be prudent to cash in in Singapore (no capital gains tax) and just hold your funds there in other instruments.   

 

I don't have have advice if you just happen to WANT to pay tax in Thailand though.  ????  

Edited February 19, 2021 by Heng

[allanos]

Are you still registered in Thailand for tax purposes? That would be the only reason I can think of why you might be obliged to pay CGT.

 

Bitcoin is now above $57k.  Why the rush to sell?

[abrahamzvi]

4 minutes ago, allanos said:

Are you still registered in Thailand for tax purposes? That would be the only reason I can think of why you might be obliged to pay CGT.

 

Bitcoin is now above $57k.  Why the rush to sell?

I know I may be wrong, but if I were you I would sell now, probably in Singapore, and not wait. I personally doubt, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies will increase further, rather to the contrary. So why wait? Cash the profits now. 

[allanos]

There will surely be pull-backs and retracements in the Bitcoin price along the way, but, in the long term, it's on its way to the moon!

 

Rather keep it, and if one is pressed for immediate funds, use it as collateral against an online loan (De-Fi).

 

However, I think it was John Paul Getty who replied, when asked how he became so rich, "because I always sold too soon!"

[PGSan]

Is there CGT in Thailand?

[donnacha]

Why not cash in half of it and leave the rest in play?

There will never be a better year for Bitcoin than 2021.

[Andy from Kent]

 

Why don't you just pay what taxes you think you'll owe.?    You've likely  made a great profit.    Don't you feel an obligation to pay for  the basic things that make a country operate smoothly?

[mr mr]

give it to your thai wife as a gift. 

[Captain Monday]

1 hour ago, donnacha said:

Why not cash in half of it and leave the rest in play?

There will never be a better year for Bitcoin than 2021.

Winklevoss2 says never sell. In the future if you need trash cash you can borrow from it.

[Brunolem]

When I asked to my Thai broker about taxes on crypto profits, I was told that things are still unclear regarding this issue and that, at least for the time being, they were not reporting anything to the authorities regarding crypto transactions.

 

As for the bank, it doesn't care about money coming into your account, at least as long as it's not a very large amount.

 

So one could say that if you keep a low profile, no more than a few hundred thousand bahts at a time, you should be able to cash in tax free.

[paddypower]

if you are bringing in any decent sized transfer, remember to identify what the purpose of funds is for. I suggest ''living and medical expenses.''

[dannyol]

I'll bet you can't even sign in to your US exchange(s) from here, so no need to worry about cashing in until you are next in the US.  They will also detect if you are using a VPN.

[bkk6060]

Taxes may be a question.  You may have to pay capital gains.

Up to you but I would sell nothing in fact I would/am buying.

Lots of info. out there but this is an article from Forbes:

 

In December, a leaked Citi report revealed one of the bank's senior analysts thinks bitcoin could potentially hit a high of $318,000 by December 2021, calling it "21st century gold."

 

Gold has been going down as BTC increases.

Where do you think the money is going?

 

[jasonsamui55]

2 hours ago, Andy from Kent said:

 

Why don't you just pay what taxes you think you'll owe.?    You've likely  made a great profit.    Don't you feel an obligation to pay for  the basic things that make a country operate smoothly?

And Thailand runs smoothly? ????

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, dannyol said:

I'll bet you can't even sign in to your US exchange(s) from here, so no need to worry about cashing in until you are next in the US.  They will also detect if you are using a VPN.

 

I find it hard to believe that anyone with half a brain keeps a sizeable stash of bitcoin with their exchange, in the US or elsewhere for that matter.

[kekalot]

1 minute ago, Caldera said:

 

I find it hard to believe that anyone with half a brain keeps a sizeable stash of bitcoin with their exchange, in the US or elsewhere for that matter.

 

you can tell who they are when they talk about forgetting their "passwords"

[jack71]

14 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

I find it hard to believe that anyone with half a brain keeps a sizeable stash of bitcoin with their exchange, in the US or elsewhere for that matter.

Duh. I obviously moved it to the exchange with thoughts of selling it...

 

Try not to type from the bar stool in pattaya. Use your brain before you type anything next time please

[Caldera]

2 hours ago, jack71 said:

Duh. I obviously moved it to the exchange with thoughts of selling it...

 

Try not to type from the bar stool in pattaya. Use your brain before you type anything next time please

 

Easy on the insults; I live in Bangkok where the bars remain closed.

 

Leaving that aside and back on topic: What I wrote was in response to another poster I quoted, who claimed that you wouldn't even be able to access your U.S. exchange from Thailand. While your OP mentioned using a Thai exchange to sell your bitcoins (nothing wrong with that).

 

My point was that nobody in their right mind would KEEP a sizable amount of bitcoin with whatever exchange(s) they are using. So I questioned the danger of getting locked out by an exchange due to moving countries. Even if that actually happens, your stash should be safely stored in your wallet until the time comes to sell - using whatever exchange then available to you.

[allanos]

As a general rule, if one is concerned about being hit for CGT or any other kind of tax when selling their Bitcoin and wants to avoid the possibility, then the answer surely is to take a loan/s against it going forward, leveraging its increase in value well into the future.

 

You are not going to be taxed on any of the funds that are released to you. You will, obviously, be paying an amount of interest on the collateralised loan.

 

For the sake of argument, assume the APR interest rate is between 10-20%. Bitcoin has, on average over its lifespan, increased at around 200% or so per annum. It may not be as high as this going forward, so one needs to be prudent.  The amount of your loan will also be limited by LTV (loan to value) parameters.

 

However, if BTC compounds at 100% per year (doubling in price, annually), the interest you are paying on your loan is highly manageable compared with the increase in value of the BTC over time, even as you continue to draw down against it to support your lifestyle.

 

And remember, if you really feel hard-pressed to sell your coin/s in future for some reason, it is easy. You will repay your loan and keep the balance.

 

Should one sell one's Bitcoin at any stage? No one has a crystal ball, but, in my opinion, I don't think so.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by allanos
typo

[khunphil]

On 2/19/2021 at 11:35 AM, Heng said:

If it's a largish amount, it might be prudent to cash in in Singapore (no capital gains tax) and just hold your funds there in other instruments.  

 ... and how can you do this , if you are not a Singapore resident ?    Just asking ....

[fdsa]

28 minutes ago, khunphil said:

 ... and how can you do this , if you are not a Singapore resident ?    Just asking ....

If you come from one of the first world countries then you could open a bank account there and do whatever you want. It requires a personal visit though.

I tried but was refused for being a citizen of the eastern european country

[Heng]

2 hours ago, fdsa said:

If you come from one of the first world countries then you could open a bank account there and do whatever you want. It requires a personal visit though.

I tried but was refused for being a citizen of the eastern european country

 

The folks at *** and **** were fine with my Thai passport.   But yes, personal visit required and you'll need a reason to open the account.   Mine was simply, 'I want to reduce my country risk and to diversify my assets.'   It also didn't hurt that I hinted that I would be willing to purchase an insurance savings plan as well (instant commission for the account rep. and also basically ties you to the bank for the next 15-20 years).   

[jasonsamui55]

On 2/22/2021 at 1:13 PM, Heng said:

 

The folks at *** and **** were fine with my Thai passport.   But yes, personal visit required and you'll need a reason to open the account.   Mine was simply, 'I want to reduce my country risk and to diversify my assets.'   It also didn't hurt that I hinted that I would be willing to purchase an insurance savings plan as well (instant commission for the account rep. and also basically ties you to the bank for the next 15-20 years).   

Interesting. Was this in the last year or two? I had thought it had gotten much more difficult in recent years. I too bank there but wanted to help my in laws open a bank account there and took the in laws there to my branch at DBS and they rejected them. Was it DBS or another? Did you contact them in advance of your visit? Or just walk into a branch? What other docs did you take with you before you flew to Singapore for this?

[jack71]

3 hours ago, Nout said:

Do you plan to sell it for Fiat currency? I have never met anyone who actually managed to convert crypto currency to real money.

Many people do it all the time in thailand. Bitkub exchange funds directing to a thai bank account. Easy...

[Nout]

2 minutes ago, jack71 said:

Many people do it all the time in thailand. Bitkub exchange funds directing to a thai bank account. Easy...

So I hear....But many people told me it's very difficult to sell CC..with Bitcoin being the exception but the many people I know who bought in as long ago as 2014 never made any money and could not sell when the value increased

[jack71]

21 hours ago, Nout said:

So I hear....But many people told me it's very difficult to sell CC..with Bitcoin being the exception but the many people I know who bought in as long ago as 2014 never made any money and could not sell when the value increased

I think you are misinformed. Anyone who bought in 2014 is sitting on a fortune. Its easy to fund back to fiat

[Heng]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:21 PM, jasonsamui55 said:

Interesting. Was this in the last year or two? I had thought it had gotten much more difficult in recent years. I too bank there but wanted to help my in laws open a bank account there and took the in laws there to my branch at DBS and they rejected them. Was it DBS or another? Did you contact them in advance of your visit? Or just walk into a branch? What other docs did you take with you before you flew to Singapore for this?

 

All of my accounts predate the last year or two but are all current (I make set reminders to make random transactions to myself every 90 days or so).   2005-2012 as I recall.  POSB (which is basically DBS), UOB, OCBC, Citibank SG,...      Document wise, and these are all personal non corporate accounts: passport, proof of address in the form of current Thai bank statement (used the 6 month print out at a branch type), and that's it.   No call in advance.  Just walked into random branches while the kids were at Universal, while the wife was shopping, etc.   Although, on a similar tangent, I was rejected on 2 or 3 occasions as well.   Just a 'sorry, we are unable to...' without much detail.

 

p.s.  ah.... I think before my very first accounts, I did call from Thailand in advance, but they couldn't really assist me on the phone, the impression given was that it would be up to the discretion of the bank manager; and in a few branches while there in person, it was hinted at that it would be smoother if I started out a their premier level of banking (which at that time, I wasn't able to, so I am not sure if it would have been easier or not).

Edited February 28, 2021 by Heng

[Heng]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:28 PM, Nout said:

Do you plan to sell it for Fiat currency? I have never met anyone who actually managed to convert crypto currency to real money.

 

localbitcoins, paxful, binance p2p.   Just as easy and particularly useful for those who don't want to use exchanges.   

[fdsa]

Nout posts that <deleted> about impossibility to exchange crypto to fiat in every single thread about the cryptocurrency, just ignore his bs.

Edited February 28, 2021 by fdsa