Now the other side of the Covid expat coin

[partington]

8 minutes ago, Badger18 said:

Yeah the next issue on my radar is where I can go for the jab. I can go and get it in the UK sometime in May or June, but I'm only eligible for the AZ one and the way I see it that's going to be obsolete by about August anyway, so better to stay here if the situation stays the same. I can't see the US preventing the pharma companies selling to private hospitals once their population has been done, so maybe it will be possible to go there for the jab (as a non-US citizen, I mean). If they're going to be through by July that's really not that bad. If the Pfizer and Moderna jabs continue to hold up against new variants, there'll be a slack period once Europe and North America have been done, because there aren't any other large blocs that will spend the money, and boosters won't be due yet. In that scenario there could easily be supply for private hospitals in Thailand towards the end of this year.

There are no specific eligibility criteria for each kind of vaccine,  AZ or Pfizer or Moderna in the UK. 

 

The vaccine you get depends simply on what is available at which particular vaccination centre or GP surgery you attend, on the day you attend it.

 

Of course it is more likely you will get the AZ one simply because it is easier to store and there are more doses available, but there is no "eligibility". 

 

Also the AZ one will not be obsolete by August because it will still stop you getting a terminal bout of even the resistant variants, and will still protect against the majority. The mRNA ones are also deficient in protection against the SA variant for example (see UK news https://www.itv.com/news/2021-02-18/pfizer-and-moderna-coronavirus-jabs-less-effective-against-south-africa-covid-19-variant????

 

"The Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna Covid-19 vaccines appear to be less effective against the South African variant when compared to other versions of the virus, two laboratory studies suggest.

 

The papers, published in The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), are based on experiments using blood samples from vaccine trial participants.

 

But experts believe most coronavirus vaccines should still prevent severe disease."

 

[Badger18]

Just now, partington said:

here are no specific eligibility criteria for each kind of vaccine,  AZ or Pfizer or Moderna in the UK. 

The (anecdotal) evidence I have is that people who were shielding are being offered the mRNA vaccines whereas the general population are being offered the AZ one. They are giving the shots at different sites, for sure, but the invitations I have heard about are for specific sites, so in effect for specific vaccines. At the very least, going back in the hope of getting an mRNA vaccine would be a huge gamble because (as you say) most of the supply is AZ.

3 minutes ago, partington said:

Also the AZ one will not be obsolete by August because it will still stop you getting a terminal bout of even the resistant variants, and will still protect against the majority.

That depends on your point of view. I'm not yet 40 and am not really concerned about getting a terminal bout. What I'm concerned about is a) long covid b) the possibility of passing it on to someone who might get really sick and die, in the worst case a loved one and c) the ability to travel. Now that the SA strain is out there it doesn't look as though the AZ vaccine is going to help with any of that. From the data available so far, I think the Pfizer is going to offer a lot more protection, although it's fair to say we don't have a complete picture yet.

 

I'm expecting the issue of protection against earlier strains to be fairly academic by August, at least in the UK, because so many people will be protected against those strains by then that pretty much all the covid around will be of the virus-busting type. Once they lift the lockdown over there the SA strain will quickly become dominant. At that point I think you can say the first generation AZ vaccine is obsolete from the point of view of an under-40 with no other risk factors. I'm not expecting to be offered the second generation one until well into 2022, and who knows what other variants will emerge in the meantime.

[partington]

40 minutes ago, Badger18 said:

The (anecdotal) evidence I have is that people who were shielding are being offered the mRNA vaccines whereas the general population are being offered the AZ one. They are giving the shots at different sites, for sure, but the invitations I have heard about are for specific sites, so in effect for specific vaccines. At the very least, going back in the hope of getting an mRNA vaccine would be a huge gamble because (as you say) most of the supply is AZ.

That depends on your point of view. I'm not yet 40 and am not really concerned about getting a terminal bout. What I'm concerned about is a) long covid b) the possibility of passing it on to someone who might get really sick and die, in the worst case a loved one and c) the ability to travel. Now that the SA strain is out there it doesn't look as though the AZ vaccine is going to help with any of that. From the data available so far, I think the Pfizer is going to offer a lot more protection, although it's fair to say we don't have a complete picture yet.

 

I'm expecting the issue of protection against earlier strains to be fairly academic by August, at least in the UK, because so many people will be protected against those strains by then that pretty much all the covid around will be of the virus-busting type. Once they lift the lockdown over there the SA strain will quickly become dominant. At that point I think you can say the first generation AZ vaccine is obsolete from the point of view of an under-40 with no other risk factors. I'm not expecting to be offered the second generation one until well into 2022, and who knows what other variants will emerge in the meantime.

Yes I see your point as a 40 year old.

 

Travel is going to be a bust no matter what vaccine you get, and the extent of transmission protection conferred by all the various vaccines  is still a bit of an unknown quantity.

 

I'm not sure I share your optimism about the mRNA vaccines being that much better against variants given the lab studies coming out, and if the UK doesn't enact a careful track and trace (which it has shown an inability to perform to date) then I agree the SA variant will run unchecked through the UK by summer.

 

So death and serious illness prevention still make it worth while to vaccinate high risk groups now, but for your purposes you are probably right in your scepticism.

 

I'm in the UK now and got the AZ one last week, my sister -one year older, living 30 miles away and not in a different risk group - got the Pfizer one about a week earlier.

Edited February 21, 2021 by partington

[clokwise]

18 hours ago, PGSan said:

Not more sinophobes, please! 

 

It's a factual statement, the Sinovac vaccine has proven to be 50.4% effective in Brazil, and not much better in other countries.

 

BTW, as someone who has been living and working in and around Greater China for over three decades, and who can read and speak Mandarin, I'm very aware of what's going on in China. Taking a position against China on their crappy vaccine does not make someone a sinophobe, it makes them informed. Take your blind loyalty to the CCP elsewhere.

 

[PGSan]

20 hours ago, billd766 said:

I am using Gruyere cheese as an analogy.

Hope it tastes good used that way!   

[PGSan]

7 hours ago, clokwise said:

the Sinovac vaccine has proven to be 50.4% effective in Brazil, and not much better in other countries.

Which is quite good by general vaccine standards.  So why complain about it?

[PGSan]

7 hours ago, clokwise said:

Take your blind loyalty to the CCP elsewhere.

Whose loyalty to what?? 

[treetops]

16 hours ago, Badger18 said:

They are giving the shots at different sites, for sure, but the invitations I have heard about are for specific sites, so in effect for specific vaccines.

 

Different vaccines can be found on the same site, although the one I'm familiar with only uses one type on any given day.  An invite to a site does not equal an invite for a specific vaccine.

[Blue Muton]

On 2/20/2021 at 3:09 PM, dodgybros said:

And you know they are the perfect answer how????

Nobody said they are the perfect answer, stop making up BS.

[spidermike007]

As many issues and complaints as I have here, I would not switch places with my friends in the US for anything less than a few million dollars. And even that would be temporary. Just not the quality of life I am looking for. I love my life here!

 

And I am not particularly worried about the jab, as I am not the least bit worried about getting Covid. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by spidermike007

[BritManToo]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

I love my life here!

Me too!

I can't imagine having a better life (at my age) anywhere else in the world.

[placeholder]

21 hours ago, partington said:

There are no specific eligibility criteria for each kind of vaccine,  AZ or Pfizer or Moderna in the UK. 

 

The vaccine you get depends simply on what is available at which particular vaccination centre or GP surgery you attend, on the day you attend it.

 

Of course it is more likely you will get the AZ one simply because it is easier to store and there are more doses available, but there is no "eligibility". 

 

Also the AZ one will not be obsolete by August because it will still stop you getting a terminal bout of even the resistant variants, and will still protect against the majority. The mRNA ones are also deficient in protection against the SA variant for example (see UK news https://www.itv.com/news/2021-02-18/pfizer-and-moderna-coronavirus-jabs-less-effective-against-south-africa-covid-19-variant????

 

"The Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna Covid-19 vaccines appear to be less effective against the South African variant when compared to other versions of the virus, two laboratory studies suggest.

 

The papers, published in The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), are based on experiments using blood samples from vaccine trial participants.

 

But experts believe most coronavirus vaccines should still prevent severe disease."

 

It's not actually known whether the mRNA vaccines are deficient in protection. Unlike in the case of he AZ vaccine, no clinical analyses have been reported to demonstrate that they are actually defective in immunizing or, if they are, how their protection compares to the AZ vaccine.

Edited February 22, 2021 by placeholder

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Me too!

I can't imagine having a better life (at my age) anywhere else in the world.

 

Exactly! Perspective is one of the hardest things to maintain in life. We have it very good here. We have access to a lifestyle I would need to be a multi millionaire to have in the US. I wake up every day feeling good about my life, and alot of my friends back in the states, tell me about the drudgery, the dullness, the mind numbing predictability, and the low quality of life they are enduring, day to day. Especially the single friends. 

[Aomelia]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:15 PM, billd766 said:

There are more holes in the border than you will find in Gruyere cheese.

 

Most days on the other EL newspaper there are reports of illegal immigrants.

Swiss Cheese 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Aomelia said:

Swiss Cheese 

Emmenthaler.

[mikeymike100]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:28 AM, clokwise said:

 

It's a factual statement, the Sinovac vaccine has proven to be 50.4% effective in Brazil, and not much better in other countries.

 

BTW, as someone who has been living and working in and around Greater China for over three decades, and who can read and speak Mandarin, I'm very aware of what's going on in China. Taking a position against China on their crappy vaccine does not make someone a sinophobe, it makes them informed. Take your blind loyalty to the CCP elsewhere.

 

Amen to that!!

[RocketDog]

The OP is viewing the situation through a very narrow perspective. 

I'd rather have very minimum exposure without a vaccine, than tremendous exposure with a vaccine. 

 

My friends in America who have been vaccinated are still being very cautious. This virus has tricked/surprised us several times and it's far from over. 

 

I'll wait my turn and pay for it if necessary, but won't take the Russian or Chinese versions except as a last resort and vaccination is mandated for extension of stay renewal. 

 

[Swiss1960]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:15 PM, billd766 said:

There are more holes in the border than you will find in Gruyere cheese.

 

Most days on the other EL newspaper there are reports of illegal immigrants.

There are no holes in a Gruyere cheese...

 

[RocketDog]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Exactly! Perspective is one of the hardest things to maintain in life. We have it very good here. We have access to a lifestyle I would need to be a multi millionaire to have in the US. I wake up every day feeling good about my life, and alot of my friends back in the states, tell me about the drudgery, the dullness, the mind numbing predictability, and the low quality of life they are enduring, day to day. Especially the single friends. 

Gee, that's kinda sad. 

Is there some common trait or situation your friends share? 

 

I have friends of both types in America. Some are quite content with their lives, others aren't. The ones retired seem to be quite happy. 

 

Don't you think this is prevalent in most countries, including the Kingdom? 

 

I enjoy my life here too, and wouldn't move home voluntarily, but suffer some of the feelings you named on occasion myself. 

 

Wherever you go, there you are and you can't run away from yourself. Perspective, as you said. 

 

[NCC1701A]

funny how different people are. 

 

they will have to drag me in kicking and screaming to get this Communist Chinese <deleted> injected unwillingly into my body. 

[spidermike007]

4 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Gee, that's kinda sad. 

Is there some common trait or situation your friends share? 

 

I have friends of both types in America. Some are quite content with their lives, others aren't. The ones retired seem to be quite happy. 

 

Don't you think this is prevalent in most countries, including the Kingdom? 

 

I enjoy my life here too, and wouldn't move home voluntarily, but suffer some of the feelings you named on occasion myself. 

 

Wherever you go, there you are and you can't run away from yourself. Perspective, as you said. 

 

Yes. They are mostly male, single and over 50. That is a tough position to be faced with, in modern day America, unless you have $10 million or more on hand. 

[itsari]

On 2/20/2021 at 3:02 PM, JTXR said:

For a year I had friends in the U.S. telling me how envious they were of me.  COVID-19 raging everywhere  there and very little here.

Now, almost all my US-based friends in my age group are posting online about receiving their second Moderna or Pfizer jab, while here there's no telling when we'll even start.  How things can change....

If you choose to live in a progressive country such as Thailand what else can you expect . Yet i understand your sentiment . 

[RocketDog]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

Yes. They are mostly male, single and over 50. That is a tough position to be faced with, in modern day America, unless you have $10 million or more on hand. 

OK. Now I hear you. I'm a case in point. 

After I divorced in my early 50's I tried the dating thing and quickly realized the realistically available candidates my age were simply not acceptable; the single life was preferable. I retired at 66, got on a plane two weeks later arriving in Bangkok utterly devoid of any plan whatsoever. 

 

Four years later I'm living in my own pool villa with my 47yo Thai lady and am quite content. If I have my way this will be my last stand. My Lady will get the house and bank accounts when I pass. 

 

I don't have millions but much more than I need. That didn't help me much in America. 

[Nanaplaza666]

On 2/20/2021 at 8:42 PM, impulse said:

Another big difference is that most of the expats in Thailand don't have to go out and make a living every day.  Another way to say that is that most can't work in Thailand.  Unlike most of the folks we left back home.

 

If they could (and had to), the Thai restrictions would look a lot more onerous, as business after business closes down.

 

And you think no Thai businesses have closed down ?? Look at samui , phuket , pattaya , big bkk hotels etc . 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Swiss1960 said:

There are no holes in a Gruyere cheese...

 

Google it.

[unblocktheplanet]

On 2/20/2021 at 3:19 PM, Antonymous said:

We are so lucky to be in Thailand. Tell 'em.

Ummm, maybe don't tell 'em!

[Captor]

On 2/21/2021 at 4:37 AM, clokwise said:

I've got mixed emotions about it. On one hand, my parents in the USA got the jabs already. I'm happy for them. On the other hand, there's no prospect if or when I'll be able to get the jab here in Thailand, and it may only be the useless Sinovac vaccine that is available.

 

I'm hoping there will soon be a consensus about vaccine certification for travelers allowing people to travel again without quarantine. Once that happens I'll take my chances and fly somewhere to get my jab, update my visa situation at the embassy while I'm at it, then fly back.

And also it is dangerous for you to put your feet on the streets in Thailand. Or sidewalks...

[cdemundo]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:38 AM, PGSan said:

On 2/21/2021 at 5:28 PM, clokwise said:

the Sinovac vaccine has proven to be 50.4% effective in Brazil, and not much better in other countries.

Which is quite good by general vaccine standards.  So why complain about it?

You are correct.  Flu vaccines are often comparable to this.

I think the medical establishment and the media have failed in reporting the performance of the vaccines.

 

Sinovac has proved to be 100% effective in preventing hospitalizations and death, as have all the 1st seven vaccines: 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/02/12/all-covid-vaccines-stop-death-severe-illness-column/6709455002/

"All seven COVID-19 vaccines that have completed large efficacy trials — Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, Novavax, AstraZeneca, Sputnik V and Sinovac — appear to be 100% effective for serious complications. Not one vaccinated person has gotten sick enough to require hospitalization. Not a single vaccinated person has died of COVID-19."

 

Also, the term efficacy has not been well explained.

An efficacy of 50% means that half as many people came down with symptomatic COVID compared to the number of people who became symptomatic in the placebo group.

This means a vaccinated person's chance of coming down with symptomatic COVID is cut in half compared to the unvaccinated.

What it does not mean is that 50% of the vaccinated group became symptomatic; which I think many people have wrongly concluded.

 

[scorecard]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:02 PM, JTXR said:

For a year I had friends in the U.S. telling me how envious they were of me.  COVID-19 raging everywhere  there and very little here.

Now, almost all my US-based friends in my age group are posting online about receiving their second Moderna or Pfizer jab, while here there's no telling when we'll even start.  How things can change....

Sure they're getting their second shot and that's good news, meanwhile 500,000 of their fellow citizens are dead and more to come... 

[rumak]

On 2/21/2021 at 10:46 AM, cdemundo said:

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/glossary/gruyere-glossary

I think he had his cheeses right after all.

 

AHA !!     So who's the Big Cheese  now  ?