Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[khongaeng]

This is my first post, and first of all I want to thank all of you for information and shared experiences. I have found it very useful prior to joining the forum. I can tell there are a lot of great people on this forum, which is why I finally decided to join.

I have a question about obtaining Thai citizenship that I am hoping some of you more experienced in the process are familiar with (hopefully this question isn't considered a hijack of this thread). I have been married with my Thai wife for 6 years and all of my 3 children have Thai passports (too young for ID cards) and are registered to our home in Thailand.

I recently moved back to Thailand with my family 15 months ago and am thinking that I would like to set myself on the path to citizenship in the Kingdom. Because the process from what I gather can be long and drawn out, I want to make sure that I am ready when the time comes. I am currently on a non-immigrant visa with no work permit (I am coming up to the point of renewing my first 1 year visa extension). I work but not in Thailand as I am consultant and travel all over Asia. I am paid by and pay taxes through my firm in Singapore.

My question is regarding the requirement for 3 years of Thai tax returns if applying for citizenship based on marriage to a Thai. Since I pay no tax in Thailand, will it even be possible for me to apply for naturalization? Or do I need to start paying taxes on my foreign-earned income? Is it even possible to pay taxes in Thailand without a work permit?

All other requirements as far as I can tell I am set for: Thai fluency, no criminal record, Thai family, Western salary level, etc. But I am wondering if not paying taxes in Thailand will be a show-stopper.

Any thoughts especially from those with experience applying for citizenship based on Marriage to a Thai would be very helpful.

[Mario2008]

You need to be working in Thailand, without that currently your chances of obtaining Thai citizenship are zero.

The process is aimed at determining if you would be an asset to THai society. One of the main instruments of determinig that is you working in Thailand and paying taxes.

Note that if you have children, you would need to be in Thailand for only 1 year on an extension of stay, but must be registered on a household book. (In your case a yellow tabien baan instead of a blue tabien baan).

[khongaeng]

You need to be working in Thailand, without that currently your chances of obtaining Thai citizenship are zero.

The process is aimed at determining if you would be an asset to THai society. One of the main instruments of determinig that is you working in Thailand and paying taxes.

Note that if you have children, you would need to be in Thailand for only 1 year on an extension of stay, but must be registered on a household book. (In your case a yellow tabien baan instead of a blue tabien baan).

Thank you for your reply. That was exceptionally fast and helpful.

I'm disappointed to hear about the requirement to have a work permit in Thailand. To bad there isn't a way to show you are contributing to Thai society by other means, like active engagement in volunteer organizations and donating to local charities. I guess citizenship is not in my cards. Is there a way to pay taxes in Thailand on foreign-earned income? I know I can do this in other countries.

That is interesting about the ability to apply for citizenship with only 1 year extension and with Thai children provision (and great news!). This is the first time I have heard this. Is this information available, perchance, online in Thai or English somewhere?

Fortunately I was able to get the yellow book last year, and that sure felt like an achievement.

Thanks again

Edited January 2, 2013 by khongaeng

[Trembly]

You need to be working in Thailand, without that currently your chances of obtaining Thai citizenship are zero.

The process is aimed at determining if you would be an asset to THai society. One of the main instruments of determinig that is you working in Thailand and paying taxes.

Note that if you have children, you would need to be in Thailand for only 1 year on an extension of stay, but must be registered on a household book. (In your case a yellow tabien baan instead of a blue tabien baan).

Thank you for your reply. That was exceptionally fast and helpful.

I'm disappointed to hear about the requirement to have a work permit in Thailand. To bad there isn't a way to show you are contributing to Thai society by other means, like active engagement in volunteer organizations and donating to local charities. I guess citizenship is not in my cards. Is there a way to pay taxes in Thailand on foreign-earned income? I know I can do this in other countries.

That is interesting about the ability to apply for citizenship with only 1 year extension and with Thai children provision (and great news!). This is the first time I have heard this. Is this information available, perchance, online in Thai or English somewhere?

Thanks again

You say that you have a company in Singapore through which you pay yourself; just start paying yourself a salary into a Thai bank account and file tax returns accordingly.

Apply for a work permit that corresponds with that setup, that is to say, make sure it reflects the fact that you are a business owner who physically operates in Thailand at least some of the time.

Edited to add : the fact that you legally own a company through which you pay yourself gives you considerable license to be creative in how you wish you present yourself to the Thai authorities. You may wish to consider opening a Thai subsidiary of your Singaporean company and pay yourself an income for "expenses" in Thailand. You can then get a work permit which states your occupation in Thailand as "overseeing personal investments". This is perfectly legal and simplifies things for the reviewers of your application.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Trembly

[khongaeng]

You say that you have a company in Singapore through which you pay yourself; just start paying yourself a salary into a Thai bank account and file tax returns accordingly.

Apply for a work permit that corresponds with that setup, that is to say, make sure it reflects the fact that you are a business owner who physically operates in Thailand at least some of the time.

Good Idea with paying myself from Singapore. The second part of your comment would be significantly more challenging: setting up an business entity and office in Thailand for my company so that my company could issue me a Thai work permit, pay taxes for me, etc. in Thailand. This is the part that I would like to avoid if at all possible.

[Trembly]

Somehow you've got to convince the Labour Department to issue you with a work permit, so Thai company or no you should be prepared to offer the Labour Department an explanation of just what it is that you do within Thailand's borders that results in you being paid by the Singaporean company.

Ideally it should all fit together in a way that is easy to understand and looks like its all in the spirit of the law to the reviewers of your application.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Trembly

[TheChiefJustice]

I used my Thai ID card for the first time to cross the border into Burma and Laos over the New Year period. Each crossing I needed to get a border pass from the local district office, which was 30 Baht and took two minutes. It was a fascinating experience and from the reactions I got they don't see many farangs with Thai ID cards. The only slight issue I had was with a Burmese immigration official on entering the Burmese side of the border. He just didn't understand how I could be Thai and how I could have possibly obtained a border pass. He gave up after a few minutes of discussion and let me through. An interesting experience.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheChiefJustice

[khongaeng]

Thank you very much for your very helpful replies. Looks like I will need to begin the process of setting up my company in Thailand. To bad I lost a year of paying taxes in Thailand...

One other question, Trembly in your more recent comment you allude to convincing the Labor Department to issue a work permit to me (with or without a Thai company backing me). Are you familiar of any cases where the Labor Department has issued a work permit without employment in a registered company in Thailand?

[khongaeng]

I used my Thai ID card for the first time to cross the border into Burma and Laos over the New Year period. Each crossing I needed to get a border pass from the local district office, which was 30 Baht and took two minutes. It was a fascinating experience and from the reactions I got they don't see many farangs with Thai ID cards. The only slight issue I had was with a Burmese immigration official on entering the Burmese side of the border. He just didn't understand how I could be Thai and how I could have possibly obtained a border pass. He gave up after a few minutes of discussion and let me through. An interesting experience.

Very funny. I do imagine that you fit into a very rare demographic segment: foreigner-looking, thai-ID holding, land-border-crossing traveler.

[Sharp]

Hi All,

For those who are interested, the application process for Thai

Citizenship in my case went as follows:

Late 2003 - Picked up the checklist from the Police Headquarters on

Rama 1 Road

January 2004 - Took all my documents to the Police Department, in what

I thought was a word perfect application. However, since I was

applying in January and this being a new tax year, my tax returns from

the three preceding years were not enough. An oversight on my part, so

waited until I got my most recent tax retirn PNG 91 for 2003

March 2004 - Try again. This time my application was successfully

lodged. Paid the 5,000 Baht fee. Got fingeprinted. Signed my name (in

Thai) on dozens of firms. Took two Thai witnesses and later my wife

plus kids to show that they were real. Took forms issued to me by the

police department to immigration and my disctrict office. Later went

back to pick up the completed forms and take them back to the police

department

April 2004 - Thai language interview at the Police Department

September 2004 - Invited to the Interior Ministry. Showed them my work

permit, passport, alien registration certificate and certificate of

residence. Then, I was shown into a room with around 40 people

watching me. I was given a microphone and asked to sing the Thai

National anthem and Phra Baramee (the one they play in the cinema).

Yes, really. Managed to keep a straight face. Got interviewed in Thai

- basic Q&A about my circumstances. Around the same time, a group of

three officials from the Interrior Ministry visited my house to see if

my domestic circumstances were as described on my application form

Waited

Waited

February 2006 - Got the good news that the then Interior Minister Khun

Kongsak had approved my application

March 2006 - Got a letter to notify me of the above

Waited

(September 2006 - military coup)

Waited

November 2006 - Got the good news that the King had countersigned my

application

December 2006 - One of the most memorable parts: the oath. Just

after the King endorsed my application, I was asked to report to the

police department in business attire, armed with a candle, a lotus

flower and an incense stick. I then had to stand with these in my

hands while clasped in a wai, in front of a Buddhist shrine, repaeting

an oath of allegance to King and country, and promising to be an

upright and law-abiding citizen.

Waited

Waited

April 2007 - Got the good news that the new Interior Minister Khun

Aree had announced in the Interior Ministry notices that a bunch of

applicants including me could now get Thai nationality

May 2007 - Got the paperwork and certificate from the Police HQ to

take to the disctrict office to get my ID card. Now I must return my

work permit, alien residence certificate and certificate of residence

to respective authorities as these are no longer needed. Now I can

apply for a passport

Told that my application was one of the faster ones these days.

Getting Thai Citizenship IS a pain in the arse - but look on the

bright side:

1) Now I can own what I buy, land, house, etc

2) No need for a work permit, and no restricted occupations. I can now

drive a Tuk Tuk for a living if the going gets tough in the IT

industry

3) Now I can get in free to the Grand Palace and pay the Thai rate for

national parks

4) I can own a business

5) I can get a Thai passport and visit countries like Laos and Vietnam

visa free

6) No need for that expensive old yearly Resident Return visa. No

limit to the amount of time that I spend out of Thailand without

losing my residency

7) I can use the Thai passport lane at the airport (shorter queues)

8) In my case, no need to give up my old nationality

9) I have a new Thai identity, forename and surname. Good for

travelling to places that dislike my country of origin

10) I think that I can even vote, although I am not sure who is worth

voting for

All you need to do is satisfy the following to apply:

http://phuketgazette.com/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=759

Golden rules are:

1) Be patient and never get upset. The people that handle your

application do not make the rules and do not have any power over what

happens in the Interior Ministry

2) Get a coach. Not an expensive lawyer - just make friends with one

of the officials that handles your application

Cheers

Kinda guessing u won't be driving a Tuk Tuk for health reasons ,,,correct ....congratulations anyway..patients is a virtu

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[NewlyMintedThai]

I used my Thai ID card for the first time to cross the border into Burma and Laos over the New Year period. Each crossing I needed to get a border pass from the local district office, which was 30 Baht and took two minutes. It was a fascinating experience and from the reactions I got they don't see many farangs with Thai ID cards. The only slight issue I had was with a Burmese immigration official on entering the Burmese side of the border. He just didn't understand how I could be Thai and how I could have possibly obtained a border pass. He gave up after a few minutes of discussion and let me through. An interesting experience.

I've used my ID card to cross into Burma a few times. The Burmese officials didn't even look at me twice.

[Trembly]

Thank you very much for your very helpful replies. Looks like I will need to begin the process of setting up my company in Thailand. To bad I lost a year of paying taxes in Thailand...

One other question, Trembly in your more recent comment you allude to convincing the Labor Department to issue a work permit to me (with or without a Thai company backing me). Are you familiar of any cases where the Labor Department has issued a work permit without employment in a registered company in Thailand?

You can get WPs on the basis of being self-employed or being a business owner. I am only familiar with the latter; where a WP is issued to the foreign shareholder of a Thai company. In the description of work it states simply that the WP holder "oversees personal investments". I do believe that there are rules concerning minimum registered capital for such WPs.

It may not be necessary for you to set up Thai company (with the obligatory 51% of shares held by Thais) because Singapore and Hong Kong companies are allowed by treaty to set up wholly owned subsidiaries in Thailand. Unfortunately I can't offer any more knowledge regarding this route and how it affects the issuance of WPs, but there are others who do know about this particular legal vehicle in the business sub-forum.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Trembly

[TheChiefJustice]

I used my Thai ID card for the first time to cross the border into Burma and Laos over the New Year period. Each crossing I needed to get a border pass from the local district office, which was 30 Baht and took two minutes. It was a fascinating experience and from the reactions I got they don't see many farangs with Thai ID cards. The only slight issue I had was with a Burmese immigration official on entering the Burmese side of the border. He just didn't understand how I could be Thai and how I could have possibly obtained a border pass. He gave up after a few minutes of discussion and let me through. An interesting experience.

I've used my ID card to cross into Burma a few times. The Burmese officials didn't even look at me twice.

I'm tall, dark, and very handsome. That was probably the reason I was stopped.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I used my Thai ID card for the first time to cross the border into Burma and Laos over the New Year period. Each crossing I needed to get a border pass from the local district office, which was 30 Baht and took two minutes. It was a fascinating experience and from the reactions I got they don't see many farangs with Thai ID cards. The only slight issue I had was with a Burmese immigration official on entering the Burmese side of the border. He just didn't understand how I could be Thai and how I could have possibly obtained a border pass. He gave up after a few minutes of discussion and let me through. An interesting experience.

I've used my ID card to cross into Burma a few times. The Burmese officials didn't even look at me twice.

I'm tall, dark, and very handsome. That was probably the reason I was stopped.

Touché.

[crazygreg44]

9) I have a new Thai identity, forename and surname. Good for

travelling to places that dislike my country of origin

If he is from Israel he can now visit the Muslim countries that were off-limits with an Israeli passport, such as Malaysia.

If he is American he can reduce his risk of trouble in whatever country has anti-US riots...

..and stil be recognized per looks, what kind of Farang he is. What a silly conclusion . . . . !!

[Trembly]

9) I have a new Thai identity, forename and surname. Good for

travelling to places that dislike my country of origin

If he is from Israel he can now visit the Muslim countries that were off-limits with an Israeli passport, such as Malaysia.

If he is American he can reduce his risk of trouble in whatever country has anti-US riots...

..and stil be recognized per looks, what kind of Farang he is. What a silly conclusion . . . . !!

There are various levels of cover. As documentational cover it will work just fine.

[ubonjoe]

Thank you very much for your very helpful replies. Looks like I will need to begin the process of setting up my company in Thailand. To bad I lost a year of paying taxes in Thailand...

One other question, Trembly in your more recent comment you allude to convincing the Labor Department to issue a work permit to me (with or without a Thai company backing me). Are you familiar of any cases where the Labor Department has issued a work permit without employment in a registered company in Thailand?

I assume you are on extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai.

Since you are not dependent upon working for your extensions you have more options for setting up company because you do not have to meet immigration requirements for the extension based upon working. Once you get company going and are paying taxes you can then use tax payments for proof of income for your extensions.

You can get a work permit by forming a partnership company with your wife or her sole proprietor business. You would only need 2 Thai employees (wife one) and registered capital of 1 million baht.

You will not get a work permit with out working for or owning a Thai company (reply to Trembly?).

Edited January 4, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Trembly]

Thank you very much for your very helpful replies. Looks like I will need to begin the process of setting up my company in Thailand. To bad I lost a year of paying taxes in Thailand...

One other question, Trembly in your more recent comment you allude to convincing the Labor Department to issue a work permit to me (with or without a Thai company backing me). Are you familiar of any cases where the Labor Department has issued a work permit without employment in a registered company in Thailand?

I assume you are on extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai.

Since you are not dependent upon working for your extensions you have more options for setting up company because you do not have to meet immigration requirements for the extension based upon working. Once you get company going and are paying taxes you can then use tax payments for proof of income for your extensions.

You can get a work permit by forming a partnership company with your wife or her sole proprietor business. You would only need 2 Thai employees (wife one) and registered capital of 1 million baht.

You will not get a work permit with out working for or owning a Thai company (reply to Trembly?).

Second bullet point : http://www.pwc.com/th/en/press-room/column-article/2011/ltw-08-09-2011.jhtml

Second paragraph : http://www.thailawforum.com/blog/work-permit-law-changes-in-thailand

[Arkady]

Thank you very much for your very helpful replies. Looks like I will need to begin the process of setting up my company in Thailand. To bad I lost a year of paying taxes in Thailand...

One other question, Trembly in your more recent comment you allude to convincing the Labor Department to issue a work permit to me (with or without a Thai company backing me). Are you familiar of any cases where the Labor Department has issued a work permit without employment in a registered company in Thailand?

I assume you are on extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai.

Since you are not dependent upon working for your extensions you have more options for setting up company because you do not have to meet immigration requirements for the extension based upon working. Once you get company going and are paying taxes you can then use tax payments for proof of income for your extensions.

You can get a work permit by forming a partnership company with your wife or her sole proprietor business. You would only need 2 Thai employees (wife one) and registered capital of 1 million baht.

You will not get a work permit with out working for or owning a Thai company (reply to Trembly?).

The registered capital of 1 million (rather than 2 million) is certainly correct if you have a Thai wife but I was told last week at the Labour Ministry's WP section in Bkk that 4 Thai employers are needed for one WP, even if you have a Thai wife and PR. Can you a quote a source for this?

[Arkady]

You need to be working in Thailand, without that currently your chances of obtaining Thai citizenship are zero.

The process is aimed at determining if you would be an asset to THai society. One of the main instruments of determinig that is you working in Thailand and paying taxes.

Note that if you have children, you would need to be in Thailand for only 1 year on an extension of stay, but must be registered on a household book. (In your case a yellow tabien baan instead of a blue tabien baan).

Thank you for your reply. That was exceptionally fast and helpful.

I'm disappointed to hear about the requirement to have a work permit in Thailand. To bad there isn't a way to show you are contributing to Thai society by other means, like active engagement in volunteer organizations and donating to local charities. I guess citizenship is not in my cards. Is there a way to pay taxes in Thailand on foreign-earned income? I know I can do this in other countries.

That is interesting about the ability to apply for citizenship with only 1 year extension and with Thai children provision (and great news!). This is the first time I have heard this. Is this information available, perchance, online in Thai or English somewhere?

Fortunately I was able to get the yellow book last year, and that sure felt like an achievement.

Thanks again

Theoretically I think you can do this but you will have to do it properly and not try to look for short cuts that won't work. For example I don't think that it is technically possible to get a WP working for a small newly formed partnership or working for an overseas registered company, as some have suggested here. It is often possible to find suggestions like this on the Internet, even on law firms' websites, but in many cases they are just quoting laws and regulations literally with no idea whether the Labour Ministry will actually issue a WP in such circumstances. You have to understand that Thai government departments issue their own internal guidelines and procedures that are often very different from the bare bones of the law or any other publicly available information, including the garbage to be found on websites of many fly by night law firms that target foreigners. This is not really a professional way for civil servants or lawyers to behave but, guess what, we are in Thailand.

My take is that you will have to set up a Thai company which is acts as a consultant to a Singapore company or companies that will pay the Thai company enough in fees to cover your Thai salary and all the operating costs of the company. The income doesn't need to be monthly. It can be quarterly, half yearly or even annually but you will need to issue proper invoices and receipts for the payments. It is quite important to report a profit every year or you might have trouble getting your WP renewed. It will save you some additional scrutiny if you don't own any shares in the Thai company yourself because, if you do, the company will be subject to greater scrutiny by Special Branch when you apply for citizenship and they will want notarised tax receipts for the company as well as you. It is OK to hold shares indirectly through a foreign company, if you want. You need at least 1 million in paid-up capital, if you have a Thai wife, and the auditor will likely want to see this has been really paid in in the first year. You will need, as I understand it, 4 Thai employees to get a WP and you will need to show evidence to the Labour Ministry of the company's payment of Social Tax for them for at least a month before you apply. You will also need to get the company registered for VAT. Once the company is up and running you will have to file for VAT and payroll tax monthly and produce audited annual accounts. You don't need to charge your overseas clients Thai VAT because export of services is zero rated.

You will asked about your work and your Thai company when you are interviewed by the National Intelligence Agency and the Interior Ministry. So you had better be able to make it sound like you and the company are contributing something of substance to Thai society and the economy, rather than just a paper structure. Since they look closely at how much tax you've paid, trying to get away with the minimum salary of 40k is probably not a great idea.You have already been married long enough with kids to qualify for citizenship through marriage but you will also need notarized salaries tax receipts for 3 complete tax years (Jan-Dec). Don't forget to start collecting receipts in your Thai name, as written in your tabien baan, from registered charities in Thailand You will need to show you have been donating over a period of time, not just the day before. Don't try to impress them by talking about voluntary work you have done in Thailand because they might ask to see your WP for that. If you don't speak at least intermediate Thai, start now. No need to be able to read and write but you should learn the formal vocab that is used in the Nationality Act in order to get through the various interviews and tests, e.g. make sure you know the Thai for things like Royal Gazette, Interior Ministry etc.

You will need to get at least 50 pints out of 100 in the Special Branch assessment.Then put in your application, pay your 5,000 baht fee and sit back and wait for maybe 10 years. Be sure to keep your WP going during the entire process or you will disqualify yourself. Obviously you are going to have to keep this up for several years and there is going to be some considerable cost and hassle involved in maintaining the Thai company and paying corporate and salaries tax, not to mention the costs of the Thai employees. It is up to you to decide whether this is a commitment you are willing and able to make. Staying power and persistence are qualities the Interior Ministry likes to see in new Thais.

Attached are details of the points qualification system and the documents required. Check latest info with Special Branch at National Police HQ because things do change. Good luck.

Points Allocation 2010 EN.doc

Documents required 2009 (2).doc

Edited January 4, 2013 by Arkady

[Arkady]

Sorry the attached list of required docs is more complete than the one above. Obviously no need for items 1 & 2 if you don't have PR.

Documents required 2009.doc

Edited January 4, 2013 by Arkady

[khongaeng]

Sorry the attached list of required docs is more complete than the one above. Obviously no need for items 1 & 2 if you don't have PR.

Arkady, thank you very much again for your very helpful information. I have had some time over the past couple days to look through most of the 26+ pages of this thread, and I noticed that many of the questions for which you (and others) provided me answers had already been answered previously. I appreciate your patience (and the patience of others) in answering my newbie questions.

Looking through your list of documents required, to me this list seems to apply to those who have gone the PR route, because alien registration book and certificate of residence is only provided with PR, correct? All the other required documents appear to be applicable to other cases (including my case married to Thai with Thai-born children). Do you know if the requirement to show personal income tax going back 3 years is required for applicants with Thai children, or is only 1 year required?

After reading through many of the postings, I am still unclear as to whether I need to apply at the Special Branch in Bangkok or at the Special Branch servicing the Province where I live (Phitsanulok)? In cases where the Special Branch field offices outside of Bangkok are unfamiliar with the process, are foreigners allowed or expected to apply in Bangkok, or are they just out of luck?

[khongaeng]

I have been poking around even more and found the list of requirements, point system, documents, and forms required for citizenship on the Special Branch Website (warning it is in Thai):

http://www.sbpolice.go.th

On the left hand side there is a button that has a picture of a Pen writing the word Thai with a check mark. In the Thai script on the button it says Requesting Change to Thai Citizenship. If you click on this button a list of documents for all of the forms, requirements, and documents that Arkady and others were nice enough to translate for us are there. For those serious about doing this process, this may be a good opportunity to practice your Thai.

I apologize if this has been posted earlier or on other threads, mods feel free to delete. Please forgive my newbie-ness

[ubonjoe]

The registered capital of 1 million (rather than 2 million) is certainly correct if you have a Thai wife but I was told last week at the Labour Ministry's WP section in Bkk that 4 Thai employers are needed for one WP, even if you have a Thai wife and PR. Can you a quote a source for this?

There may of been changes to the rules but they were not made public. The only info in English I have is the 2004 regulations posted in the pinned topic of this forum.

Recently there was a post by a member that had gotten his work permit with only 2 employees but was told this was only for him as a part owner/company officer when he tried to add an additional foreign employee.

[ubonjoe]

Second bullet point : http://www.pwc.com/t...8-09-2011.jhtml

Second paragraph : http://www.thailawfo...ges-in-thailand

This is from the 2nd link which is a bit of a disclaimer. The other page says about the same thing.

We encourage interested applicants to approach the recent changes with a healthy amount of skepticism, as the reported “easing” of the work permit regulations – and the hidden caveats that might be lurking in their shadows – have yet to be confirmed as matter of practice.

Also unless on an extension of stay based upon marriage you would not be able to get an extension of stay because immigration's rules do not match labor work permit rules.

[khongaeng]

The registered capital of 1 million (rather than 2 million) is certainly correct if you have a Thai wife but I was told last week at the Labour Ministry's WP section in Bkk that 4 Thai employers are needed for one WP, even if you have a Thai wife and PR. Can you a quote a source for this?

There may of been changes to the rules but they were not made public. The only info in English I have is the 2004 regulations posted in the pinned topic of this forum.

Recently there was a post by a member that had gotten his work permit with only 2 employees but was told this was only for him as a part owner/company officer when he tried to add an additional foreign employee.

Could it be possible that he was American. I have heard that Americans because of a special treaty in the 1960's have special treatment when setting up companies, one of benefits being half of the required Thai employees per foreigner in the company, and also the US citizen can own a majority share in the company. This treaty lapsed sometime in the early 2000's when Thailand joined trade agreements like ASEAN, but from what I understand they still informally accept the provisions of the beneficial treatment for Americans. I have no experience with this personally, but maybe this is the reason he was allowed 2 Thai employees instead of the normal 4.

[ubonjoe]

The OP specifically mentioned the 2 employee rule for being married to a Thai.

I think that there are a lot of people still getting work permits with only 2 Thai employees.

The Amity treaty is still in effect which allows US citizens to wholly own a company. I don't recall there being any special provisions for work permits.

Edited January 5, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Oasis]

As we are nearly at the end of the year, it is time to tally up the numbers of newly minted Thais who were gazetted in 2012. According to my research there were 35 naturalisations under Section 10 and 77 women married to Thais who were granted Thai nationality under Section 9, giving a total of 112 for the year. I have excluded the many group naturalisations of formerly stateless minorities born in Thailand who also technically fall under Section 10.

The cumulative figures I have gathered since 2005 are as follows:

2005 Nat 50 W 68 Total 118

2006 Nat 10 W 232 Total 242

2007 Nat 141 W 236 Total 377

2008 Nat 163 W 44 Total 207

2009 Nat 0 W 4 Total 4

2010 Nat 7 W 145 Total 152

2011 Nat 40 W 8 Total 48

2012 Nat 35 W 77 Total 112

2005-12 Nat 446 W 814 Total 1,260

Avg p.a. Nat 55.75 W 101.75 Combined 157.5

Thanks for the good work and information, hope next year the process will be moe efficient and quicker. As things are changing in MOI.

An Update, MOI have just approved 46 women only, no man(Point to be noted) on 20th December 2012 in their official gazzette to get Thai citizenship. So the latest figure is, 2012 W 77+46=123 against M=35, Total=158

[GarryP]

Sorry the attached list of required docs is more complete than the one above. Obviously no need for items 1 & 2 if you don't have PR.

Arkady, thank you very much again for your very helpful information. I have had some time over the past couple days to look through most of the 26+ pages of this thread, and I noticed that many of the questions for which you (and others) provided me answers had already been answered previously. I appreciate your patience (and the patience of others) in answering my newbie questions.

Looking through your list of documents required, to me this list seems to apply to those who have gone the PR route, because alien registration book and certificate of residence is only provided with PR, correct? All the other required documents appear to be applicable to other cases (including my case married to Thai with Thai-born children). Do you know if the requirement to show personal income tax going back 3 years is required for applicants with Thai children, or is only 1 year required?

After reading through many of the postings, I am still unclear as to whether I need to apply at the Special Branch in Bangkok or at the Special Branch servicing the Province where I live (Phitsanulok)? In cases where the Special Branch field offices outside of Bangkok are unfamiliar with the process, are foreigners allowed or expected to apply in Bangkok, or are they just out of luck?

On the tax issue, three years is required. This information is as of June 2012.

[Arkady]

The registered capital of 1 million (rather than 2 million) is certainly correct if you have a Thai wife but I was told last week at the Labour Ministry's WP section in Bkk that 4 Thai employers are needed for one WP, even if you have a Thai wife and PR. Can you a quote a source for this?

There may of been changes to the rules but they were not made public. The only info in English I have is the 2004 regulations posted in the pinned topic of this forum.

Recently there was a post by a member that had gotten his work permit with only 2 employees but was told this was only for him as a part owner/company officer when he tried to add an additional foreign employee.

I was told by the Labour Ministry official that those who think they have a good reason for less than 4 Thai employees can write a letter and it might be taken into consideration but he wouldn't be drawn on what might be considered a good reason. I have heard others say that they sometimes allow a start up company to have less than 4 Thais and this might have been the case above but expect the company to get up to 4 Thai employees subsequently. Sadly the old concession for PRs of not needing any Thai employees at all has gone by the wayside and I am sure that the concession for those married to a Thai only applies to the paid-up capital. I know people who have American treaty companies and they definitely need 4 Thais per WP. In addition treaty companies need 3 million paid-up capital per WP because they fall under the alien business licence regulations.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Arkady