"It's not time yet" to relax Thailand’s laws on foreigners owning land/property, say analysts

[Destiny1990]

As I said before they probably choose to reduce  visa requirements for us from going to submit 265 signed photocopies into submitting 264 signed photocopies.

[GinBoy2]

Just musing here.

 

But people try to compare Thai's migrating to Western countries to people trying to retire in Thailand.

 

It's Apples and Oranges.

 

The biggest and more significant change they could make would be allowing someone married to a Thai, for their spouse to be able to petition for permanent residency, as is common in most Western countries.

 

Yeah, you can bleat about the paperwork, but the upshot is always that the Thai ends up as a permanent resident with essentially exactly the same rights as a citizen.

 

I could die tomorrow, and nothing legally would change for my wife, she'd still be a green card holder, she could sell our house which she would inherit,  buy a new house, go live with our son or whatever. But the bottom line her legal status wouldn't change one bit.

 

The reverse situation in Thailand just doesn't exist. Married, single doesn't matter, you are never more than a long term visitor, with absolutely no rights.

 

We had an appalling situation where we live in Thailand. This guy had lived in Thailand for years, legally married.

When his wife died, her kids from a previous relationship decided to kick him out, since they now inherited the house, and the poor guy literally had no legal leg to stand on.

 

He ended up staying with us for a few weeks, grieving and trying to pick up the pieces of his life before going back to Sweden to try to regain some life there.

 

So yeah, TiT, the paperwork would probably involve cutting down the rainforest, but enable Farangs to have access to the same immigration as Western countries do for spouses

[hotchilli]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:28 AM, overherebc said:

Lots of news on many things like this always seem to be based on might be/could be.

Wonder why?

Never be?

[Nanaplaza666]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:48 PM, overherebc said:

Who would control the auction?

Think about it.

555555 i think if he thought about it , he wouldn't have posted that bogus idea .

[chilli42]

Of course all of these things were permitted at some point.  Foreigners were allowed to buy land outright in years gone by .... just look at the names on deeds in the core areas of Bangkok.  Foreigners can buy a land and house now by investing 40 million baht (agree a bit steep for some).  Foreigners were allowed, not that long ago, to buy up to a 100% of condo units.  Nothing is new here.  I don’t expect the xenophobia to go away any time soon.  It’s only a matter of need/greed ... the ‘right’ time as they say. 

[MasterBaker]

with Thai prices on chicken farm size property it's not an issues. You can freely own any property in Vietnam and Cambodia, no problems with long term visa too. Welcome

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Just musing here.

 

But people try to compare Thai's migrating to Western countries to people trying to retire in Thailand.

 

It's Apples and Oranges.

 

The biggest and more significant change they could make would be allowing someone married to a Thai, for their spouse to be able to petition for permanent residency, as is common in most Western countries.

 

Yeah, you can bleat about the paperwork, but the upshot is always that the Thai ends up as a permanent resident with essentially exactly the same rights as a citizen.

 

I could die tomorrow, and nothing legally would change for my wife, she'd still be a green card holder, she could sell our house which she would inherit,  buy a new house, go live with our son or whatever. But the bottom line her legal status wouldn't change one bit.

 

The reverse situation in Thailand just doesn't exist. Married, single doesn't matter, you are never more than a long term visitor, with absolutely no rights.

 

We had an appalling situation where we live in Thailand. This guy had lived in Thailand for years, legally married.

When his wife died, her kids from a previous relationship decided to kick him out, since they now inherited the house, and the poor guy literally had no legal leg to stand on.

 

He ended up staying with us for a few weeks, grieving and trying to pick up the pieces of his life before going back to Sweden to try to regain some life there.

 

So yeah, TiT, the paperwork would probably involve cutting down the rainforest, but enable Farangs to have access to the same immigration as Western countries do for spouses

There is an obvious difference. 

Many foreigners would conveniently marry  just for the opportunity to buy a house in their name. 

Normal foreigners who marry normal Thais can apply for permanent residency and citizenship, the same as normal Thais marrying normal Americans. 

 

Normal Thai retirees can't find normal american wives. Can't you see the dilemma the Thai government faces? 

Do I have to spell it out? 

Rich American marries Buriram Noi and buys half the village; we have a similar problem in Scotland with the JK Rowling type English , who even get to vote in the referendum for independent Scotland, where I don't ! 

 

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, MasterBaker said:

with Thai prices on chicken farm size property it's not an issues. You can freely own any property in Vietnam and Cambodia, no problems with long term visa too. Welcome

And have Harry Glitter as a neighbour. 

[NeoDinosaw]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:52 AM, SoilSpoil said:

Just wait a while, it's inevitable that foreigners will be able to buy land. Too many families have accumulated too much house hold debt debt, with NPL numbers soaring. Who or what will bail them out, Thailand firmly stuck in the middle income trap and dwindling FDI numbers? It's either QE or relaxing foreign property laws. 

National Poker League  ?    Federal Departmnent of Investigation  ?    Queen Elizabeth  ?

[Excel]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

And have Harry Glitter as a neighbour. 

Didn't realise Gary Glitter had a brother Harry who lives in Cambodia. Do you have his phone number and I'll ask him how big his chicken farm is there and if its freehold ????????

[NeoDinosaw]

21 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

I understand the reluctance, just look at Vancouver Canada, USA, Australia (and many other places.). The Chinese bought up as much as was available and now citizens can not afford to buy land or home. If foreigners were allowed to buy land Thailand would join Laos and Cambodia as provinces of China. Then locals must rent from a Chinese landlord at inflated prices.

back in the 1970s I rented a house in Chiang Mai from a Chinese man. Everybody called him Khun Chin ......      and many poeple in government jobs read the daily newspaper in Chinese.  Up in the mountains near Chiang Rai there was an enormous area contolled by KMT  (KuMinTang - Nationalist Army which escaped the commuists by moving south and ended up in Thailand) waiting to invade and liberate China, with ChangKhiChek opening a second front in the east.  in about '74 or '75  it was no longer fashionable to outwardly show such strong Chinese origins.  

[sead]

I'll think I'll wait until a stable and secure government comes in place. Disneyland is for children

[NeoDinosaw]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

There was guy on the TV yesterday.....corruption expert......he was asked where is the most corrupt place?........Nigeria?.......Cayman Islands? .......Panama?...... He laughed!....... No....... London is by far and away the most corrupt place on Earth....everywhere else pales into insignificance

he was so right. But it is beginning to show with the ex-PM 'lobbying' current ministers for favours so that he can line his own pockets.

With regard to the London property market  ...... last year there as a full page (maybe only half a page) avert in the Bangkok Post for flats near the Law Courts and Kings' College (London). As an ex-research at Kings, I know that nobody there could afford the Million Pound starting prices.  Clearly aimed at rich Thai and Chinese buyers. I expect they are snapped up and remain empty  and used solely as an inverstment to be sold at a great profit in a few years time.  I would bet that they are sold to other Chinese/Thai invertors in secret deals with avoid any Stamp Duty (10% ?) going to the Uk Treasury.

 

 

 

[holy cow cm]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Just musing here.

 

But people try to compare Thai's migrating to Western countries to people trying to retire in Thailand.

 

It's Apples and Oranges.

 

The biggest and more significant change they could make would be allowing someone married to a Thai, for their spouse to be able to petition for permanent residency, as is common in most Western countries.

 

Yeah, you can bleat about the paperwork, but the upshot is always that the Thai ends up as a permanent resident with essentially exactly the same rights as a citizen.

 

I could die tomorrow, and nothing legally would change for my wife, she'd still be a green card holder, she could sell our house which she would inherit,  buy a new house, go live with our son or whatever. But the bottom line her legal status wouldn't change one bit.

 

The reverse situation in Thailand just doesn't exist. Married, single doesn't matter, you are never more than a long term visitor, with absolutely no rights.

 

We had an appalling situation where we live in Thailand. This guy had lived in Thailand for years, legally married.

When his wife died, her kids from a previous relationship decided to kick him out, since they now inherited the house, and the poor guy literally had no legal leg to stand on.

 

He ended up staying with us for a few weeks, grieving and trying to pick up the pieces of his life before going back to Sweden to try to regain some life there.

 

So yeah, TiT, the paperwork would probably involve cutting down the rainforest, but enable Farangs to have access to the same immigration as Western countries do for spouses

Terrible story. If he could prove he bought the home he could have gotten some money from a forced sale or compensation from the kids. I have my own kids but also know that if that same situation happens then I will always need to make sure an additional 400k will need to be banked to keep me here, or I might just have one of my kids flip it and do a support dad visa. 

[newnative]

   "Not time yet...".  If it's not time now with the economy in shambles I don't know when it would be.  As always, a government unable to think outside the box or move nimbly.  Just endless committees, endless studying, endless planning, endless possible proposals, endless possible schemes.  Endless, endless, endless with nothing at the end. 

[tomazbodner]

On 4/17/2021 at 3:18 PM, bobbin said:

We don't get long-term "visas"..

 

We get 1 year visas with yearly extensions.. subject to changing whims.

 

No matter how invested you are here, financially or personally, you are only a year away from being shown the door.

 

That 3 year process involves marriage and a work history, the latter not an option for retirees. You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

And you know this well, so why try to troll this thread?

I'm sorry but how can it be @Neeranam's fault that you completely failed your long term planning? Surely you had to know the conditions of staying in this country before you chose it as your retirement home.

[holy cow cm]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

   "Not time yet...".  If it's not time now with the economy in shambles I don't know when it would be.  As always, a government unable to think outside the box or move nimbly.  Just endless committees, endless studying, endless planning, endless possible proposals, endless possible schemes.  Endless, endless, endless with nothing at the end. 

They really don’t want to change any status quo and give foreigners especially men foreigners a fair shake at feeling like this is our true home. And the system is set up to get a PR or Citizenship not to be easily available especially for those of us who don’t work here. 

[tomazbodner]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Just musing here.

 

But people try to compare Thai's migrating to Western countries to people trying to retire in Thailand.

 

It's Apples and Oranges.

 

The biggest and more significant change they could make would be allowing someone married to a Thai, for their spouse to be able to petition for permanent residency, as is common in most Western countries.

 

Yeah, you can bleat about the paperwork, but the upshot is always that the Thai ends up as a permanent resident with essentially exactly the same rights as a citizen.

 

I could die tomorrow, and nothing legally would change for my wife, she'd still be a green card holder, she could sell our house which she would inherit,  buy a new house, go live with our son or whatever. But the bottom line her legal status wouldn't change one bit.

 

The reverse situation in Thailand just doesn't exist. Married, single doesn't matter, you are never more than a long term visitor, with absolutely no rights.

 

We had an appalling situation where we live in Thailand. This guy had lived in Thailand for years, legally married.

When his wife died, her kids from a previous relationship decided to kick him out, since they now inherited the house, and the poor guy literally had no legal leg to stand on.

 

He ended up staying with us for a few weeks, grieving and trying to pick up the pieces of his life before going back to Sweden to try to regain some life there.

 

So yeah, TiT, the paperwork would probably involve cutting down the rainforest, but enable Farangs to have access to the same immigration as Western countries do for spouses

If Thailand allowed foreigners to buy land, they would have none left for locals as foreigners would have bought all of it off and pushed locals out. Average Thai doesn't have the finances to compete with those that earn many times more than them on average. Somewhat like Canadians being pushed out of their own homes by Chinese investors. Or Arabs buying off whole areas of London, pushing locals to suburbs.

 

Even I can't own land for not having applied for citizenship (though I am eligible to apply, and no, I'm not married), I fully support this policy. Thai government's job is to work for Thai people. Comparing developing country with low income with developed World is like comparing oranges and apples.

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, NeoDinosaw said:

he was so right. But it is beginning to show with the ex-PM 'lobbying' current ministers for favours so that he can line his own pockets.

With regard to the London property market  ...... last year there as a full page (maybe only half a page) avert in the Bangkok Post for flats near the Law Courts and Kings' College (London). As an ex-research at Kings, I know that nobody there could afford the Million Pound starting prices.  Clearly aimed at rich Thai and Chinese buyers. I expect they are snapped up and remain empty  and used solely as an inverstment to be sold at a great profit in a few years time.  I would bet that they are sold to other Chinese/Thai invertors in secret deals with avoid any Stamp Duty (10% ?) going to the Uk Treasury.

 

 

 

As I understand it they set up shell companies......the company buys the property and that avoids the stamp duty....and I think...capital gains......money breeds money.

[Marco100]

Why buy when you can rent ?

Specially now that so many more houses and condos will be on the market ...

If Thailand doesn't want you to own a house   , rent it . In the end is cheaper and you will not loose money when you sell it and you can move when and where you want .

I bought my house with a 30 year lease hold but with today's experience I would never buy again . Not worth it .

[2009]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:35 PM, RichardColeman said:

Actually I think they are missing a huge opportunity here.

 

I'd do this.

1. Allow foreigners to own a property, land and all. 

2. On 'natural' death - if not sold before - the house and property goes either to the foreigners half Thai children, Thai wife, allowed to pass down once to 'foreign family' ownership for 50 years or given up to the Thai state for auction.

 

This way the land is only temporarily owned and eventually returned to a Thai. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shhh....

 

Don't give them complicated, sadistic ideas. They love them.

 

You have been here too long.

[JamieM]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:49 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Those "bureaucratic visa requirements" are in place simply because a lot of Thais do not abide by the conditions of their visa, end up overstaying, working and cause other issues, which the majority of Westerners travelling to holiday in Thailand generally do not do. 

 

Thailand is a developing country therefore screening Thais visiting Western countries is essential to prove for adequate funds and insurance that they will abide by the terms of their visa and return home.

 

If we are talking about reciprocal agreements then I'm sure you'd have no problem with the following in Western countries:

Police cars equipped with facial recognition cameras patrolling the streets to monitor Thais.

90 day reporting for all Thais.

Narrow pathways for Thais to obtain residency - only Thai women married to Western men eligible or men and women through permanent residency route (3 years for PR then an additional 5 to achieve citizenship, same criteria applies as in Thailand).

Quota of 50 Thais per year able to achieve permanent residency, same for citizenship.

Similar conditions that violate human rights in overcrowded cells for those detained on immigration offences.

Press conferences highlighting any and all Thais caught for crimes and visa violations on local news media.

Fingerprints and facial recognition taken of Thais on entry and exit to Western countries.

 

 

Well said.. Many Thai people ignore western immigration. I know many Thai girls that go illegal when their visa runs out. They literally have private facebook groups discussing how to get around immigration law some of them will even get pregnant once they are facing deportation with the closest man/simp they can find to avoid having to leave.

[JamieM]

7 hours ago, Surelynot said:

There was guy on the TV yesterday.....corruption expert......he was asked where is the most corrupt place?........Nigeria?.......Cayman Islands? .......Panama?...... He laughed!....... No....... London is by far and away the most corrupt place on Earth....everywhere else pales into insignificance

Can a Thai murder a western national in central London and be out of prison in less than 3 years? No

 

Can a Thai murder a western national and be out in less than 3 years in Thailand? Yes

 

Which place is more corrupt? 

[Neeranam]

16 hours ago, ParkerN said:

 

I doubt you'll get very much sympathy for Thais here. The FO told me while negotiating for a visa for my former wife, that in general, Thai are not welcome in UK, and it's their behaviour which is the cause. Same in USA.

What behavior is that? I have a very hard time trying to imagine that it could be any worse than Brits in Thailand. 

[bendejo]

Would it really matter?  If a Thai took a fancy to your house/land and hired a legal team, and perhaps had a friend or 2 in the gov't, you'd probably lose. 

Costa Rica allows (or is it allowed? haven't kept up on this) foreigners to own land, and a lot of foreigners who put their $$$ into it ended up the poorer.  Happens to the CR-born citizens as well.  Should be plenty of stories about this on the net.

 

 

[Marvin Hagler]

On 4/17/2021 at 3:18 PM, Neeranam said:

 

Do you want Thailand to make retirees invest $500,000 in order to get a long-term visa, like for Thais in the US?

Thailand gives citizenship to foreigners. Fairly simple 3-year process for me. 

Maybe just keep the things that benefit you and get rid of the ones that don't?

I know foreign chefs here.

Permanent residence with the right to work and buy property if married to a National of that country.

[ParkerN]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

What behavior is that? I have a very hard time trying to imagine that it could be any worse than Brits in Thailand. 

Mainly just not abiding by time limits. Apparently, Thais are somewhat given to getting a visa an then just disappearing into the countryside and not leaving. Same as they do in Japan, Korea USA etc. None of this has anything to do with my opinion of Thais, I just pass on the comments as received.

[TaoNow]

A foreigner can own land in Thailand.

 

After my Thai wife died in 2011, my name was added her two chanote (land deeds).

 

I am not a Thai citizen.

 

I consulted with multiple government officials at different times at the district land office in Bangkok.

 

They all assured me that I could now sell the land whenever I wanted.

 

The catch was that I could not sell the house which sits on the land which I now own.  

 

Only Thai nationals can own a house, as indicated by their name on the House # Form.

 

Word to the wise...

[thaibook]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:10 AM, OJAS said:

 

It's also high time that Thais were allowed to stay in Western countries for up to 30 days without having to go through formidable bureaucratic hurdles involved in obtaining a suitable visa, like my Thai wife had to in order to accompany me on a 12-day trip back to the UK several years ago. An eye for an eye, as you say.

Not sure why that is.  My Thai wife has an "right of indefinite stay" stamped in one of her passports.

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, TaoNow said:

A foreigner can own land in Thailand.

 

After my Thai wife died in 2011, my name was added her two chanote (land deeds).

 

I am not a Thai citizen.

 

I consulted with multiple government officials at different times at the district land office in Bangkok.

 

They all assured me that I could now sell the land whenever I wanted.

 

The catch was that I could not sell the house which sits on the land which I now own.  

 

Only Thai nationals can own a house, as indicated by their name on the House # Form.

 

Word to the wise...

You've got that the wrong way round. 

You can own a house but there is no way for a foreigner to be put on the land chanote. 

Having your name on the house book dies not mean you own the house, but just live there.