Thailand’s vaccine shopping list as COVID surges

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

I agree. One may not like everything that he did but he improved life for millions.

Or maybe Thanathorn would be better?

 

"comments by Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit about the national handling of the mass-vaccination campaign,"

I wonder if you forgot the extra-judicial killings or raising visas from 500b to 1900b, making retirees put 800k into a Thai bank account etc.

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, ParkerN said:

The average IQ in TL, according to the government, is less than 90 (statistics released by the government), which means that half the population of Thailand has an average IQ of less then 90. I did hear from a Thai newspaper some years ago, that there are pockets of population in the North and North-East, where the average is less than 60.

Talk about hidden Thai bashing. This also means that half the population has an IQ of more than 90. 

 

[shdmn]

9 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Self protection, keep your distance from non-mask wearing people... 1st rule of staying healthy.

Cool story.  So I guess no need to get vaccinated then.  Phew, That's a relief.   ????

Edited April 18, 2021 by shdmn

[Albert Zweistein]

12 hours ago, connda said:

Actually most people's perception of a vaccine's efficacy, safety, and general overall worth correlates directly to the degree in which they believe and support their own home country's Geo-political stances. In the West, nations claim that Russia and China are "evil" nations.  This equates to "Chinese and Russian vaccines are "cheap" and "unproven."  I am sure that there are nationalistic Chinese and Russian saying the same thing about Western vaccines.
By the way, every one of the current vaccines being rolled out to the public are "experimental vaccines" that are only being used under "emergency authorization."  Everyone of them is "unproven" until detailed epidemiological analysis of these "live vaccination trials" are analyzed over the next three to five years and the results published in medical periodicals and journals.  It will not be until these vaccines are officially "licensed" that they will be "proven". 
You can line up to take whatever vaccine is available, but you will be required to sign a "consent" form consenting to the use of an experimental vaccine.  If these were proven, licensed vaccines, you would not have to sign a content.  I've never signed a consent to take a flu shot or rabies shot or Hep-B shot or any other shot. They are proven, licensed vaccination.

Just had my second Pfizer shot day before yesterday and didn't have to sign anything.

[Albert Zweistein]

8 hours ago, moogradod said:

Any idea why my favored vaccine - MODERNA - is not on the list ? Any chance to import it via a private hospital ? Against payment of course, even if this endeavour would cost quite a bit I suppose.

They didn't provide brown enveloppes.

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, shdmn said:

Cool story.  So I guess no need to get vaccinated then.  Phew, That's a relief.   ????

Ex-pats are at the end of a very long and slow moving queue for vaccination.. I said 1st rule which means right now !

Cool huh !

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, Letseng said:

Wear N95 or FFP2.

Still have my supply of N95's from PM2.5

[ParkerN]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Talk about hidden Thai bashing. This also means that half the population has an IQ of more than 90. 

 

Yes it does. Though what that has anything to say about the learning capacity of Thais is rather less clear to me. I fail to see how re-stating Thai government figures has anything to do with bashing or otherwise of Thais. Numbers are numbers surely? Perhaps it has more to say about your not liking the numbers...If so, then I have bad news... in general, numbers are numbers and they don't seem to care very much what you or I think about them.

[gearbox]

13 hours ago, connda said:

If you are a Westerner who hates Russians and Chinese, then you will find the weakness in the vaccine narrative.  Had China produced the AZ vaccine, you'd be pointing out blood clots instead of efficacy.  If the UK or US produced the Sinovac vaccine you'd be lauding it regardless of its efficacy. 
I gave up "patriotic nationalism" after 8 years in the military.  That stint in the military taught me how the world works.  I've been a student o Geo-politics and international affair ever since.  And I watch people's behavior.  The majority of people on this planet are rather easy to read and tend to function based on habit and conditioning.  So this 'vaccine bashing' isn't a surprise.

Vaccine smearing and bashing is harmful in the current environment. I myself was skeptical in regards to the AZ vaccine until I got some qualified advice. We need as many shots as possible, no matter from which country.

 

Here is an excellent article which summarizes the problem of not enough available vaccines and the vaccine grab by the rich countries:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/surging-global-cases-of-covid-19-threaten-australia-s-vaccine-exit-strategy-20210414-p57j9j.html

 

Quote:

 

"So what’s going on? Firstly, it’s important to be clear that the portfolio of eight vaccines available to the world is excellent at preventing severe disease and – going by trends in Israel and Britain – infection. The problem is that the global rollout of vaccines is not equitable, nor is it keeping pace with accelerating rates of transmission drive by viral variants of concern, young people’s increased vulnerability, and complacency around suppression measures."

 

In a couple of words, if vaccines are reaching only the rich countries,  the poor countries will keep producing new covid variants, which will in turn invalidate the vaccination in the rich countries, and reset the vaccination rates back to zero again.

[placnx]

15 hours ago, gearbox said:

No they didn't say that...

 

From the quoted article - "Gao <deleted>, who said Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates”"

 

"don't have very high" is not equal to "low".  It may be average, or better than average, or lower than average etc.

Then some of the Western press newspapers turned that quote to "low efficacy", and that's how it started to propagate. Goebbels work.

Sad really as the world at the moment needs all of the working vaccines, in order to get over this pandemic mess.

I looked at the Economist link posted y Bkk brian:

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/04/15/in-clinical-and-real-world-trials-chinas-sinovac-underperforms?

From that: "when asymptomatic infections were included, this figure dropped to a dismal 35.1%"

Considering that Gao was discussing mixing vaccines to improve results suggests that the Sinovac is inadequate. With such an infectious virus, especially the UK and Brazil variants, maybe the India variant, too, 50% efficacy or "protection" is not an appropriate threshold anyway, if the end game is herd immunity.

 

Gao's phrasing is no doubt self-censorship, but what he said did not please the Propaganda Dept, so he had to backtrack his statement. 

[Enzian]

Kaiser in CA would right now give me a vaccine appointment, and the thing itself soon after, if I were there (I'm 81). But I'm in Bangkok, and I assume that to get on a plane I will have to show a vaccination card. What interests me are reports that there are no downsides to mixing and matching vaccines, and I assume that includes taking one brand and then within a short time frame taking  another brand. And I don't care what the first one here, to qualify to fly, would cost.

[placnx]

11 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Vaccine smearing and bashing is harmful in the current environment. I myself was skeptical in regards to the AZ vaccine until I got some qualified advice. We need as many shots as possible, no matter from which country.

 

Here is an excellent article which summarizes the problem of not enough available vaccines and the vaccine grab by the rich countries:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/surging-global-cases-of-covid-19-threaten-australia-s-vaccine-exit-strategy-20210414-p57j9j.html

 

Quote:

 

"So what’s going on? Firstly, it’s important to be clear that the portfolio of eight vaccines available to the world is excellent at preventing severe disease and – going by trends in Israel and Britain – infection. The problem is that the global rollout of vaccines is not equitable, nor is it keeping pace with accelerating rates of transmission drive by viral variants of concern, young people’s increased vulnerability, and complacency around suppression measures."

 

In a couple of words, if vaccines are reaching only the rich countries,  the poor countries will keep producing new covid variants, which will in turn invalidate the vaccination in the rich countries, and reset the vaccination rates back to zero again.

There is a lot of talk about breaching patents so that India and others can produce mRNA vaccines. It would be more effective if the many undersupplied countries appeal to the US and perhaps Germany to significantly increase the Pfizer and Moderna output. This article states that Pfizer can make only 2.5bn doses this year:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/european-union-orders-extra-biontech-pfizer-vaccines-amid-j-j-suspension-11618404084

So the US government should expedite the creation of further production facilities to make enough mRNA vaccine to fill the gap for undersupplied countries. I think that the result would be faster and more reliable than if various inexperienced countries tried to make such vaccines. Even India has not made mRNA vaccines. We are in a war against Covid, so time is of the essence.

[gearbox]

13 minutes ago, placnx said:

I looked at the Economist link posted y Bkk brian:

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/04/15/in-clinical-and-real-world-trials-chinas-sinovac-underperforms?

From that: "when asymptomatic infections were included, this figure dropped to a dismal 35.1%"

Considering that Gao was discussing mixing vaccines to improve results suggests that the Sinovac is inadequate. With such an infectious virus, especially the UK and Brazil variants, maybe the India variant, too, 50% efficacy or "protection" is not an appropriate threshold anyway, if the end game is herd immunity.

 

Gao's phrasing is no doubt self-censorship, but what he said did not please the Propaganda Dept, so he had to backtrack his statement. 

The Economist as an UK paper is supplying partial "truth".

 

It misses for example this:

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91658

 

"Overall vaccine efficacy against mild-to-moderate COVID-19 in South Africa was 21.9% (95% CI -49.9 to 59.8), and efficacy against B.1.351 was 10.4% (95% CI -76.8 to 54.8), reported Shabir Madhi, PhD, of University of the Witwatersrand in Gauteng, South Africa, and colleagues, in the New England Journal of Medicine."

 

If "35.1%" is dismal, then what is "10.4%" ??

 

Then Chile says Sinovac is 67% effective based on millions of real world vaccinations:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-16/chile-says-sinovac-shot-67-effective-vs-symptomatic-covid-cases-knkcmpwk

 

For me both of these vaccines are doing their job OK, there is no need to smear, especially in a country like Thailand which has limited resources and choices.

Of course you won't see this published in Economist...not fitting the narrative.

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, ParkerN said:

Yes it does. Though what that has anything to say about the learning capacity of Thais is rather less clear to me. I fail to see how re-stating Thai government figures has anything to do with bashing or otherwise of Thais. Numbers are numbers surely? Perhaps it has more to say about your not liking the numbers...If so, then I have bad news... in general, numbers are numbers and they don't seem to care very much what you or I think about them.

Why wouldn't I like the numbers? Thailand is among the top countries in the world. This is a deliberate attempt at Thai bashing, supported by your other posts attacking Thais. 

I wonder if the Thai woman you married was in the IQ of over 90 or under 90 ???? 

It continually amazes me how some posters here can hate Thais so much yet want to live here. 

[ParkerN]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Thailand is among the top countries in the world

 

If you say so. In what way is it one t the 'top countries in the world' I wonder? or do you just mean that you like it more than the last place you couldn't make work for you?

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, ParkerN said:

 

If you say so. In what way is it one t the 'top countries in the world' I wonder? or do you just mean that you like it more than the last place you couldn't make work for you?

 

 

I was talking about IQ. 

Please be more considerate when posting here as some of us married Thais and have Thai family. 

Didn't you marry a Thai woman from Isarn? You know that place that has areas of stupid people(as you said). 

[placnx]

7 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The Economist as an UK paper is supplying partial "truth".

 

It misses for example this:

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91658

 

"Overall vaccine efficacy against mild-to-moderate COVID-19 in South Africa was 21.9% (95% CI -49.9 to 59.8), and efficacy against B.1.351 was 10.4% (95% CI -76.8 to 54.8), reported Shabir Madhi, PhD, of University of the Witwatersrand in Gauteng, South Africa, and colleagues, in the New England Journal of Medicine."

 

If "35.1%" is dismal, then what is "10.4%" ??

 

Then Chile says Sinovac is 67% effective based on millions of real world vaccinations:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-16/chile-says-sinovac-shot-67-effective-vs-symptomatic-covid-cases-knkcmpwk

 

For me both of these vaccines are doing their job OK, there is no need to smear, especially in a country like Thailand which has limited resources and choices.

Of course you won't see this published in Economist...not fitting the narrative.

 

 

 

 

Yes, the NEJM article sounds like the nail in the coffin for the AZ vaccine. After all, the South African variant will get around the world sooner or later. So it would make sense to emphasize having adequate supplies of the mRNA vaccines, which BTW can be tweaked as the need arises. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/annual-covid-19-vaccine-booster-shots-likely-needed-pfizer-ceo-says-11618520527

Pfizer and Moderna are talking about annual boosters. If the US government would have them produce more vaccine in new USG facilities, the USG could make their vaccines available at affordable prices or free in some cases to underserved countries.

[gearbox]

4 minutes ago, placnx said:

Yes, the NEJM article sounds like the nail in the coffin for the AZ vaccine. After all, the South African variant will get around the world sooner or later. So it would make sense to emphasize having adequate supplies of the mRNA vaccines, which BTW can be tweaked as the need arises. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/annual-covid-19-vaccine-booster-shots-likely-needed-pfizer-ceo-says-11618520527

Pfizer and Moderna are talking about annual boosters. If the US government would have them produce more vaccine in new USG facilities, the USG could make their vaccines available at affordable prices or free in some cases to underserved countries.

AZ vaccine is good if the South African variant is not around.  And Thailand has a slim chance of getting meaningful supplies of mRNA vaccines any time soon, I would say they'll get probably next to nothing this year. 

Anyone who flies back home for whatever reason should try to vaccinate there.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

The Economist as an UK paper is supplying partial "truth".

 

It misses for example this:

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91658

 

"Overall vaccine efficacy against mild-to-moderate COVID-19 in South Africa was 21.9% (95% CI -49.9 to 59.8), and efficacy against B.1.351 was 10.4% (95% CI -76.8 to 54.8), reported Shabir Madhi, PhD, of University of the Witwatersrand in Gauteng, South Africa, and colleagues, in the New England Journal of Medicine."

 

If "35.1%" is dismal, then what is "10.4%" ??

 

Then Chile says Sinovac is 67% effective based on millions of real world vaccinations:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-16/chile-says-sinovac-shot-67-effective-vs-symptomatic-covid-cases-knkcmpwk

 

For me both of these vaccines are doing their job OK, there is no need to smear, especially in a country like Thailand which has limited resources and choices.

Of course you won't see this published in Economist...not fitting the narrative.

 

 

 

 

Any vaccine is certainly better than none and as you've mentioned in another post, Thailand simply does not have other choices in reality. However I think they should supply more information when giving out the Sinovac vaccine.

 

Again from real life data in Chile

 

The Chilean University study which came out a few days before the Official announcement from the Chilean Health Ministry painted a different picture and said:

 

"University of Chile, AFP reported that CoronaVac is 56.5 percent effective in protecting recipients two weeks after the second dose, and 27.7 percent effective within the first two weeks. But for a single dose, efficacy in the 28 days between the first and second dose was only three percent, AFP reported." 

 

"The study also made clear that a first dose “does not have any relevant effect after four weeks,” meaning that people who only got one jab were just as vulnerable to infection as the non-vaccinated group."

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3128886/chile-covid-19-vaccination-drive-adds-sinovac-efficacy-data

 

The reason I mention this is that my wife had her first dose of Sinovac a little over a week ago in Phuket, they then said the next appointment would be in one months time. If that was to be the case then according to the University report it would literally render her at risk from infection as anybody who had not received the vaccine. As it turns out they send an sms message yesterday and said they will be offering the second dose in just over a weeks time.

 

The importance of telling people that the first dose Sinovac is not very effective is paramount to avoid complacency as we have seen in a few high profile Ministers here in Thailand that have caught Covid after receiving the first dose of Sinovac.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Dogmatix]

 Now, Thailand must wait to find out whether the manufacturers will agree to provide supplies amid the huge global demand for COVID vaccines.

 

Another excuse to pretend to be doing something but continue doing nothing as they are happy with the arrangements they have already made. He and his buddies have grabbed vacines for themselves and their families and now the peasantry can face the music without protection. Soon we will hear that Pfizer and Moderna didn't reply to their emails but CP Group will import the Sputnik vaccine.

[Dogmatix]

42 minutes ago, gearbox said:

AZ vaccine is good if the South African variant is not around.  And Thailand has a slim chance of getting meaningful supplies of mRNA vaccines any time soon, I would say they'll get probably next to nothing this year. 

Anyone who flies back home for whatever reason should try to vaccinate there.

 

How about the efficacy against the Indian double mutation which has just made its way to the UK?

Edited April 19, 2021 by Dogmatix

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

How about the efficacy against the Indian double mutation which has just made its way to the UK?

Not just the UK...............

 

Recently, Israel confirmed seven cases of the India variant, all of whom had just returned from abroad and were unvaccinated. The variant has also been discovered in England, Scotland, Australia and New Zealand.

Easily spread

Late last week, the WHO said that the B.1.617 variant has increased transmissibility, adding that it is spreading to countries across Asia and North America.

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/covid-19-india-variant-what-do-we-know/

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

The Economist as an UK paper is supplying partial "truth".

 

It misses for example this:

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91658

 

"Overall vaccine efficacy against mild-to-moderate COVID-19 in South Africa was 21.9% (95% CI -49.9 to 59.8), and efficacy against B.1.351 was 10.4% (95% CI -76.8 to 54.8), reported Shabir Madhi, PhD, of University of the Witwatersrand in Gauteng, South Africa, and colleagues, in the New England Journal of Medicine."

 

If "35.1%" is dismal, then what is "10.4%" ??

 

Then Chile says Sinovac is 67% effective based on millions of real world vaccinations:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-16/chile-says-sinovac-shot-67-effective-vs-symptomatic-covid-cases-knkcmpwk

 

For me both of these vaccines are doing their job OK, there is no need to smear, especially in a country like Thailand which has limited resources and choices.

Of course you won't see this published in Economist...not fitting the narrative.

 

 

 

 

And just what is The Economist's "narrative"?

[Bkk Brian]

 

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Why wouldn't I like the numbers? Thailand is among the top countries in the world. This is a deliberate attempt at Thai bashing, supported by your other posts attacking Thais. 

I wonder if the Thai woman you married was in the IQ of over 90 or under 90 ???? 

It continually amazes me how some posters here can hate Thais so much yet want to live here. 

Thailand IQ ranking is placed at 58th, not exactly one of the top countries, its IQ being 91. This is from 2021 Stats https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country

[Neeranam]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

 

Thailand IQ ranking is placed at 58th, not exactly one of the top countries, its IQ being 91. This is from 2021 Stats https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country

If there are more than 100 countries then Thailand is one of the top ones. The source I have says it is #50. 

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If there are more than 100 countries then Thailand is one of the top ones. The source I have says it is #50. 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country 2021 Statistics

Edited April 19, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country 2021 Statistics

It's still in the upper countries. Pretty good for a country that was 3rd world recently. ONly 3 piints behind Ireland! 

https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It's still in the upper countries. Pretty good for a country that was 3rd world recently. ONly 3 piints behind Ireland! 

https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

3rd in world for what until recently?

 

Your website caveat:

"This page covers the period from 1990 to 2010" A little out of date, like I said the stats I refer to are 2021

Edited April 19, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[placnx]

5 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not just the UK...............

 

Recently, Israel confirmed seven cases of the India variant, all of whom had just returned from abroad and were unvaccinated. The variant has also been discovered in England, Scotland, Australia and New Zealand.

Easily spread

Late last week, the WHO said that the B.1.617 variant has increased transmissibility, adding that it is spreading to countries across Asia and North America.

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/covid-19-india-variant-what-do-we-know/

Assuming that these countries still have uninfected people, it would make sense to run trials in Brazil, South Africa, and India to test a first administration of Sinovac followed not long after with Pfizer or Moderna. This would probably require safety trials (Phase 1), so it's better to do this ASAP. Note the Sinovac Chile trials mentioned in an earlier post by Bkk Brian: 

 

5 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Again from real life data in Chile

 

The Chilean University study which came out a few days before the Official announcement from the Chilean Health Ministry painted a different picture and said:

 

"University of Chile, AFP reported that CoronaVac is 56.5 percent effective in protecting recipients two weeks after the second dose, and 27.7 percent effective within the first two weeks. But for a single dose, efficacy in the 28 days between the first and second dose was only three percent, AFP reported." 

 

"The study also made clear that a first dose “does not have any relevant effect after four weeks,” meaning that people who only got one jab were just as vulnerable to infection as the non-vaccinated group."

 

There could be similar trials for an AZ jab followed by an mRNA jab. This would be prudent in case the proposed AZ booster flops. There are so many people already vaccinated with the AZ that a booster needs to be at hand in case a new variant renders AZ protection insufficient.

[friendofthai]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:41 AM, petermik said:

Buying cheap unproven vaccines is not a good idea......

Considering the competition between nations, one competitor will never prove products of others.

Edited April 19, 2021 by friendofthai