Thailand negotiating to buy 5-10 million doses of Pfizer vaccine: PM

[fleccer]

25 minutes ago, pentagara said:

No, it's not "would like to". They do. It's currently enforced practice and has been for months. It might be because they don't trust people behaving responsibly after a positive result, not sure. In a way, hospitalization is an expensive form of quarantine.

 

Irrespective, PCR tests are not unreliable, especially if you're tested more than once (as you typically are after a positive result). But that's a different story and has nothing to do with hospitalization practice.

In short, absolute security does not exist. I have seen these field hospitals and I don't like them at all, no sort of isolation between patients. Therefore you risk coming in healthy and going out sick

[Emdog]

"sinovac ceo admits the chinese vaccine is only 50% effective ."

There is a solution to that: get 4 shots instead of two! 50% + 50% = 100%

I am, of course, joking. But not difficult to imagine some idiot minister suggesting this strategy.

[holy cow cm]

45 minutes ago, Dene16 said:

I read some time ago that it would not be too difficult to tweak the vaccine to cater for the mutations, however, they didn't have the multitudes of mutations that we are now experiencing so you may well be correct

No telling but can only assume it is not going to be simple and pretty. Let's just hope an entirely new one doesn't pop up and slip out rearing its ugly little virus head from.....

[Jeffrey346]

July to December delivery. .  Too little too late.. What a joke.. 

[holy cow cm]

7 minutes ago, Emdog said:

"sinovac ceo admits the chinese vaccine is only 50% effective ."

There is a solution to that: get 4 shots instead of two! 50% + 50% = 100%

I am, of course, joking. But not difficult to imagine some idiot minister suggesting this strategy.

I think they actually said 1 + 1 + additional 1 will equal efficacy. But then again I have also read add 1 more after the 3rd jab. Sorry, but you could not pay me to take this one. 

 

[chilly07]

15 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Thailand is not in a position to negotiate and Pfizer is not making  "bid".  Thailand must go and pay whatever the cost is. No discussion.  Other countries are in line and willing to pay the Pfizer price. The arrogance of the Thai government is astounding. Delusional to think that a company with a product in high demand is going to bid or negotiate on a small order of vaccine. Thailand  needs Pfizer vaccine. Pfizer does not need Thailand. The people who have the financial means will go to other country to get vaccine access.

Not until their is an agreed profit share! They are negotiating the profit share not just the price. 

[Emdog]

6 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

I think they actually said 1 + 1 + additional 1 will equal efficacy. But then again I have also read add 1 more after the 3rd jab. Sorry, but you could not pay me to take this one. 

 

I suppose I need to be more careful.... often absurd attempts at humor align with government policy

[holy cow cm]

8 minutes ago, Emdog said:

I suppose I need to be more careful.... often absurd attempts at humor align with government policy

Funny thought that you hit the hypodermic needle straight on its Sinovac point. I also don't like who is making the money off of this vaccine, so another reason for me to totally shun it..

Edited April 21, 2021 by holy cow cm

[BobBKK]

Same size country. UK 63% vaccinated, Thailand 1%.  Pathetic.

[clivebaxter]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

The letter of intent specified that Siam Bioscience will produce the vaccine for South East Asia, not just for Thailand. I doubt whether Thailand would be able to prevent exports to their neighbours.

 

COVID-19 vaccine manufacturing for Thailand and South East Asia

Bigging themselves up as usual, I doubt if they will ever get round to exporting anything. Intentions are not reality, we have to wait and hope.

[Dogmatix]

21 hours ago, galt1967 said:

Note the key word: "negotiating"

 

Nothing ordered, finalized, so on, unfortunately.

 

Take this with a grain of salt.

 

Pfizer has enough high quality demand not to want to bother with clowns in third world countries who are looking for bribes and/or for excuses not to buy their product.  Despite a significant presence in Thailand they have not even bothered to try to register their vaccine here. 

 

Pfizer learned their lesson in India where they were the first company to apply to register a vaccine.  After months of procrastination, as approvals were given to AZ and other vaccines that applied later,  the Indian government said Pfizer had to do specific trials in India to see what the effects would be on Indian patients.  Pfizer just kicked the Indian market into touch and withdrew its application completely. No time for such corruption games while lives are at stake.

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, sirineou said:

They are waiting for the producing countries to be vaccinated so that they can buy the vaccine a fire sale prices. 

It is as simple as that. 

Well if that's the case, they're going to be very disappointed - Covid 19 is going to be with us for a long time and at least 2 vaccine manufacturers have stated that they are currently selling their vaccine at 'no profit' prices but once the Pandemic status is over, they will charge full price.

[KhaoYai]

22 hours ago, galt1967 said:

Note the key word: "negotiating"

Yes, I also picked up on that. What's to negotiate? I don't remember the UK 'negotiaiting' - as far as I know the UK pre- ordered vaccine without knowing what the final price would be.

 

Maybe they just can't cope with a 'no kick back' deal.

Edited April 21, 2021 by KhaoYai

[Toby1947]

Order the Pfizer jab, get it delivered then leave it on the sidewalk in the sun for a few hours same as they do with beer deliveries. Thick as pig manure

[chilli42]

14 months on and they are just now negotiating for an effective (safe?) vaccine.  Does the PM have any idea how pathetic this makes the government look?

[JohnHans]

I seriously don't understand how 5 to 10 vaccines are going to work? 

Under dosing and only vacing a small percentage of a population is giving the virus a great opportunity to mutate. 

The Thai government should be percacing at lease 120 million doses. to cover the population of over 65 million people.

Perhaps they are planning to vaccinate the politicians and elite community and be damned to the peasants.

[sirineou]

7 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Maybe. But by July, those Americans and UKers who got vaccinated in December will be about ready for their first booster shot.

 Unless variants change the efficacy of the current vaccination,  I think July for booster shots  would be too early for most Americans. 

 Most that were vaccinated in the US, were vaccinated the last couple of months, and  as reported the vaccine is good for a year, so as I said, unless things change , we will not be ready for the next booster shot until March 2022. and at that is should be a different shot than the current vaccine (I think , I am not sure) .  Personally, I think that here in the US in a few months they will not be able to give it away ,  Supplies will increase and prices will decrease, especially for second tier vaccines , by that time other vaccines might also become available. 

I think the above assessment is part of the strategy for many poor countries or those who do not want to make the investment. 

[Damrongsak]

7 hours ago, placnx said:

Yes, just as India is doing, diverting all production for domestic use. Their private industry apparently didn't receive sufficient funding from the Indian government to build new production facilities. Unfortunately, this is even true in US and EU.

The U.S. has put a couple billion $ into R&D with a couple companies, in addition to ordering perhaps 100 million more doses than needed, assuming some of the other vaccines may not get approved.

[shdmn]

9 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Again not correct, its the world, the transfer of technology to the Serum Institute in India was on the basis of the same stipulations, ie not for profit/loss until the pandemic is over. No transfer of the Oxford Uni technology will happen unless this is agreed in the contract.

 

 "agreement with the Pune-based Serum Institute of India (SII), among other world-wide vaccine manufacturers, to produce the vaccine currently under trial at the University of Oxford on a mass scale, if successful.

“Our vaccine work is progressing quickly”, the university said on Friday. It recently announced the start of a Phase II/III trial of the vaccine in about 10,000 adult volunteers with other late-stage trials due to begin in a number of countries around the world.

The agreements, reached on a not-for-profit basis includes a $750 million agreement with the Coalition of Epidemic Preparedness Innovations founded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation"

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/biopharma-major-astrazeneca-ties-up-with-indian-institute-to-produce-potential-vaccine/story-UF9yLSQLRQSKX6NNemnFRK.html

They had to agree to sell a certain amount to COVAX and other organizations at near cost yes.  But they can also sell for profit to private companies.

 

Go argue with the CEO of the Serum Institute about it.  That is where I am getting my info from.   He says as much in some videos on youtube and in the link I posted previously.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by shdmn

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, shdmn said:

They had to agree to sell a certain amount to COVAX and other organizations at near cost yes.  But they can also sell for profit to private companies.

 

Go argue with the CEO of the Serum Institute about it.  That is where I am getting my info from.   He says as much in some videos on youtube and in the link I posted previously.

 

You didn't read my other reply to you no?

 

"I was reading an older article, you're correct, thanks. Things change quickly when profit is involved"

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1214464-thailand-negotiating-to-buy-5-10-million-doses-of-pfizer-vaccine-pm/?do=findComment&comment=16402991

 

[Mark mark]

I think that Astra Zenica is OK, like the benefits far FAR out weight the risks and well, they ALL have risks any way.... I have had my first jab of it (Here in Australia) and it is OK, and was also for my 89 year old Mother.

 

Like over 50 I would not have any problems with it at all, but well ? Probably would not give it to my Kids though. ...  But Like <Deleted> July to December ! ? ... Gee I hope that thee still will be some one alive, who has not got their immunity naturally by having it and surviving by then ? ... And well the Mutations ... India now having a double Mutation for us all !!! 

 

... Still, they say though that AZ will stop me dyeing, though even if I do get a mutation. ? ... ??? ...  And well this seems a pretty good start for me at this stage I think ???

[Know not me]

Why didn't they start ordering a year ago.????

[sirineou]

42 minutes ago, Know not me said:

Why didn't they start ordering a year ago.????

Because a year ago it was very expensive, by next year when no one wants it they will be able to get a very good deal for it. 

[Stygge]

17 hours ago, pentagara said:

 

If they actually end up purchasing the BioNTech vaccine, it anyway likely will mostly be sold by private hospitals. Hospitals can't purchase from Pfizer directly due to liability issues (Pfizer/other vaccine manufacturers won't sell...), so the government is needed inbetween.

 

As for mRNA not being viable due to temperature issues: If only private hospitals in major cities offer it, the cold chain challenge should be managable. For large scale distribution, it actually depends whether it's an issue, since it's not mRNA specific, but depends on the lipids as well. Curevac's and the ARCoV vaccine are both mRNA based and don't have the temperature issue to the degree of the current generations of BioNTech and Moderna. Both are planned to become available in the 2nd half of 2021. They probably could buy Curevac now in addition to Pfizer and get it at the same time as the Pfizer/BioNTech one. Curevac is expected to get approval in June in major markets. But then, the Oxford vaccine ("AstraZeneca") doesn't have the cold storage issue either, so it's actually a non-issue. For large scale distribution, the Oxford vaccine will be used in Thailand anyway.

 

As for vaccines for developing countries, for now it's Oxford/AstraZeneca, but it's actually not an ideal long term solution for multiple reasons. If it were the perfect solution, we'd see large scale distribution now, but alas we don't, and it's not because of the blood clots. As a result, hopes are actually on NDV-HXP-S.

I still think keeping the right temperature will be a challenge in Thailand. But the main reason for discarding this vaccine in Europe is mishandling. Personel get good training in handling the vaccine but still the smallest shake of the syringe and the vaccine is without effect. You cannot distinguish the failed vaccine by eyesight and you risk injecting placebo in the patient. In Europe they discard the vaccine in the slightest suspicion of mishandling. Do you really think they would do that in a profitmaking private hospital in Thailand? Since the patient would´t know the philosophy whould be that everyone is happy anyway.

I would´t take that risk in Thailand.

[John Drake]

14 hours ago, sirineou said:

as reported the vaccine is good for a year,

 

I wonder if that will depend on the vaccine. According to this story, the White House says 9 to 12 months, while the pfizer ceo says within 12 months. In any case, before December comes, the US will need a fresh new stockpile as well as the infrastructure to deliver the shots.  

Quote

The United States is preparing for the possibility that a booster shot will be needed between nine to 12 months after people are initially vaccinated against COVID-19, a White House official said on Thursday.   https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-preparing-1-year-covid-19-booster-shots-pfizer-chief-sees-need-2021-04-15/

 

[yogavnture]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:36 PM, shdmn said:

Because they aren't making enough. They just cut back expected delivers to the UK and some other countries.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccine-manufacturing-issues-force-moderna-to-cut-supplies-to-canada-u-k-11618600046

better to make less and make it work.  now we see what even a small problem with a vaccine does to the brand name.  europe is bailing on j and j and astra zencica  and going for phizer and moderna.  pharma is cut throat

 

[placnx]

18 hours ago, sirineou said:

 Unless variants change the efficacy of the current vaccination,  I think July for booster shots  would be too early for most Americans. 

 Most that were vaccinated in the US, were vaccinated the last couple of months, and  as reported the vaccine is good for a year, so as I said, unless things change , we will not be ready for the next booster shot until March 2022. and at that is should be a different shot than the current vaccine (I think , I am not sure) .  Personally, I think that here in the US in a few months they will not be able to give it away ,  Supplies will increase and prices will decrease, especially for second tier vaccines , by that time other vaccines might also become available. 

I think the above assessment is part of the strategy for many poor countries or those who do not want to make the investment. 

How long the Pfizer protects depends on the immune system of the individual. As we get experience of who gets reinfected when by what variant, it will be clearer which people need boosters sooner and how long immunity lasts in general. All is subject to change if a new more infectious variant appears.

[Johnny9]

This PM Prayut is goofy , liar , flip flop all the time.

Right    ------   " negotiating "  ------

Because the world don't want to deal with goofy Junta dictator government

.... and ....

He want to wait for vaccine from Siam Bioscience which link to the richest  king in the world

The problem is AstraZeneca That sharing the technology with Siam Bioscience having problem right now.

Many Thai media keep quite about this and some got hit by 112 already.

At this moment only 0.14% are fully vaccinated in Thailand

This is very very low among ASEAN countries

So, Thai people have to wait and who know when .... 3 months , 5 months ..... 

 

Pfizer and Moderna are the best vaccines in the world at 95% efficacy

compare to Chinese Sinovac is 35.1%  

Edited April 24, 2021 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, placnx said:

How long the Pfizer protects depends on the immune system of the individual. As we get experience of who gets reinfected when by what variant, it will be clearer which people need boosters sooner and how long immunity lasts in general. All is subject to change if a new more infectious variant appears.

Sure, that could well be, but according to the latest research as reported a couple of days ago , they are planning for a booster in a year .

"

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months

PUBLISHED THU, APR 15 20211:23 PM EDTUPDATED THU, APR 15 20213:13 PM EDT

" 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

[sirineou]

9 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

I wonder if that will depend on the vaccine. According to this story, the White House says 9 to 12 months, while the pfizer ceo says within 12 months. In any case, before December comes, the US will need a fresh new stockpile as well as the infrastructure to deliver the shots.  

 

Early days, and dependent on variants emerging. As of now the latest research seems to indicate  12 months, I am sure give or take a couple of months dependent on the individual and the vaccine.  As more people get vaccinated and more data comes in , this timeline could be expanded or reduced. I got my second shot of Pfizer a couple of weeks ago, I went to the federal site administered by the national guard in Jacksonville FL. an hour drive away from where I live, I went there because I got my first shot there, they did not require an appointment, and  they were extremely efficient. At my second shot visit  they were offering both the Pfizer and the J&J vaccine, There were only a few people there as opposed to when I got the first shot, the whole thing including the 15 minute wait after, took no more the 18 minutes. Afterwards you have to wait in a large tent for 15 min as I said, to make sure you did not have a reaction, both times I went, not one person did. 

One side was for those who took the Pfizer, the other side for those wo took the J&J. There were 10 times more people on the Pfizer side. Pont being that a lot more of the J&J vaccine , which is a fine vaccine, less expensive and much easier to transport and store, will become available to the rest of the world. 

In a way the Thai government did a smart  , but potentially dangerous thing, They controlled the virus with tough restrictions, to where vaccines would become more plentiful and economic.   

Edited April 22, 2021 by sirineou