Vaccinations for Expats at Embassies

[asiacurious]

I was talking with a friend living in Japan about the possibility of expats getting vaccinations at their embassies.  He seemed to think it would happen - eventually.  I personally don't think it will because the optics of it are pretty bad.  I would guess that that diplomats and citizens working at embassies (and their family members) have already been (or will be) vaccinated.  But for regular expats there would just be too many issues.

 

Of course, if Thailand really is going to put foreign nationals at the back of the line for getting vaccines, rather than prioritize based on age/risk group, then an argument could be made in favor of embassies providing vaccinations as a "service" for their citizens and to help Thailand focus on vaccinating Thai nationals.

 

In some countries (USA for example) it seems there will soon be more vaccinations available than people who want them, while here in Thailand there are lots of people who want them but can't get them.

 

What do you think?  Would it be a good idea for countries to offer their citizens vaccinations at their embassies?  What would the diplomatic implications of doing this be?  Could it even happen?

[pixelaoffy]

When to the UK embassy at AIA tower last week . Can't get past reception to even speak to anyone ! Yes me a UK citizen . Just a couple of Thai staff employed programmed to give usual automated replies and handful of securitas staff concerned about scanning and checking possessions . Useless place Mr Davison 

[Emdog]

I've posted in other threads about abysmal US state dept decisions regarding expats: "depend on local resources"... also some notice that embassy staff around world has been give vaccines.

Fair to assume that "staff" would include the numerous Thai nationals that work at US embassy, consulate. Don't begrudge that, get jab where ever you can, but something seems intrinsically wrong with lack of concern shown by state dept with us rabble abroad. If they gave a damn about us, they would be working to get us vaccinated ASAP.

Seems the only "service" embassies care about would be our funeral services.

[Kinnock]

I wouldn't expect the UK embassy to do anything of value.  In the heat of the Red Shirt demonstrates they all packed up and shut the embassy down.

 

We are on our own - always have been.

 

[internationalism]

some 2 months ago chinese were pressing thai government on vax for their citizens in thailand, that was one of the conditions of getting an emergency sinovac.

possibly the 500k doses sinovac offered free by chinese government has this condition included. But thai government did not say much. Very much in the panic mode and beyond public and press scrutiny. It well might cover all chinese, even tourists, but would be done by backdoor way, maybe chinese cultural centre, different associations

Edited April 25, 2021 by internationalism

[asiacurious]

Would you accept vaccination frim your embassy if offered? Or will you stick it out with Thais? 

[timberpond]

3 hours ago, asiacurious said:

Would you accept vaccination frim your embassy if offered? Or will you stick it out with Thais? 

Accept if offered, but looks like they don't give a sh*t about us at all. The general population aged 45 and above are vaccinated or vaccinating in my home country and I haven't heard any plans about away from home people like us. 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, asiacurious said:

Would you accept vaccination frim your embassy if offered? Or will you stick it out with Thais? 

Of course most people would accept it. Why not? But it's not gonna happen.

[GroveHillWanderer]

11 hours ago, asiacurious said:

What do you think?  Would it be a good idea for countries to offer their citizens vaccinations at their embassies?  What would the diplomatic implications of doing this be?  Could it even happen?

I'm pretty sure embassies do not meet the requirements laid down by the Thai government  for being a vaccination centre.

 

These include being a licensed medical facility with the personnel, equipment and facilities to deal with any allergic reactions that can occur, such as anaphylactic shock.

Edited April 25, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'm pretty sure embassies do not meet the requirements laid down by the Thai government  for being a vaccination centre.

 

These include being a licensed medical facility with the personnel, equipment and facilities to deal with any allergic reactions that can occur, such as anaphylactic shock.

You're assuming the embassies would even want to do it even if they could.

 

It's funny not ha ha.

 

Occasionally there is one American abroad that becomes a cause célèbre and no stone is left unturned to help him. There's always a political angle. 

 

But helping Americans abroad in a more general way. Not interesting.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Jingthing

[asiacurious]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'm pretty sure embassies do not meet the requirements laid down by the Thai government  for being a vaccination centre.

 

These include being a licensed medical facility with the personnel, equipment and facilities to deal with any allergic reactions that can occur, such as anaphylactic shock.

 

Would that matter?  Embassies are sovereign territory.  Thailand would have no say over what goes on inside another country's embassy.

 

Also, most embassies will have a medical professional on staff (likely a military medical doctor, but at least a registered nurse).

[Brierley]

Have you seen how much the UK Embassy charges just to witness a signature? Can you imagine how much they would charge to vaccinate you against covid? Jeeze, whatever were you thinking.

[brewsterbudgen]

The UK Embassy have vaccinated their own staff (AZ vaccine), and those working for the British Council (both Brits and Thais).  I did enquire as to whether there was a chance of extending it to other Brits (at a price), but no response.

[asiacurious]

1 hour ago, Brierley said:

Have you seen how much the UK Embassy charges just to witness a signature? Can you imagine how much they would charge to vaccinate you against covid? Jeeze, whatever were you thinking.

 

Vaccinating your citizens against a deadly virus during a global pandemic could be considered to be several orders of magnitude more important than witnessing a signature, no?

 

Not saying embassies would necessarily see it that way as I think the optics (eg "privileged farang") can create a barrier to their providing vaccines to expats... at least until the Thai government starts mass vaccinations of Thais.

[Phillip9]

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

These include being a licensed medical facility with the personnel, equipment and facilities to deal with any allergic reactions that can occur, such as anaphylactic shock.

 

It wouldn't be hard to outsource the actual injection and have a private hospital do it.  

 

Many countries have certainly already done it for their own staff working at their embassy.  I'm sure the US has already vaccinated or offered vaccines to all of their diplomats worldwide.

[brewsterbudgen]

7 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

 

It wouldn't be hard to outsource the actual injection and have a private hospital do it.  

 

Many countries have certainly already done it for their own staff working at their embassy.  I'm sure the US has already vaccinated or offered vaccines to all of their diplomats worldwide.

As stated earlier, the UK Embassy in Bangkok have already vaccinated their staff.  This thread is about them making it available to other British citizens.

[Brierley]

19 minutes ago, asiacurious said:

 

Vaccinating your citizens against a deadly virus during a global pandemic could be considered to be several orders of magnitude more important than witnessing a signature, no?

 

Not saying embassies would necessarily see it that way as I think the optics (eg "privileged farang") can create a barrier to their providing vaccines to expats... at least until the Thai government starts mass vaccinations of Thais.

Yes sure but I'm thinking solely in cost terms on this right now. And we think the Thai's might rip off the farangs over the vaccine, wait until the Chancellor realizes he's got an overseas earnings opportunity on a soft captive target!

[asiacurious]

I'll add this (emphasis added):

 

Quote

The State Department will not be vaccinating all of its citizens abroad, though, and has told citizens to either secure vaccines in the country they live or travel home for a vaccine. They have also warned citizens against the use of vaccines from China and Russia as they have not provided “transparent, peer-reviewed scientific evidence of their safety and efficacy."

 

Source: https://www.devex.com/news/how-embassies-are-tackling-covid-19-vaccinations-99505

 

 

However, I think that could change over time and depending on the circumstances.  For example, if the Thai government came out with a firm policy that said vaccines were for Thai nationals only, and countries were free to offer vaccines to their own citizens.

 

I recall the US Embassy kept insisting that they would absolutely NOT issue Covid Extensions letters that Thai Immigration started to require months back....  Until they did start issuing letters.

[Pilotman]

14 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

When to the UK embassy at AIA tower last week . Can't get past reception to even speak to anyone ! Yes me a UK citizen . Just a couple of Thai staff employed programmed to give usual automated replies and handful of securitas staff concerned about scanning and checking possessions . Useless place Mr Davison 

They are a disgrace and about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Don't look to the UK embassy to do any useful service for their expat citizens, instead they hide behind their locally employed Thais, who in their turn, don't care. I hope that they read this post and feel ashamed, as they should.  

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Brierley said:

Have you seen how much the UK Embassy charges just to witness a signature? Can you imagine how much they would charge to vaccinate you against covid? Jeeze, whatever were you thinking.

I would hope that they would charge the same price as they do for normal UK citizens.

 

Free because whatever they think or say WE ARE UK citizens. If the Embassy staff get vaccinations for free, then we should also.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, asiacurious said:

I'll add this (emphasis added):

 

 

Source: https://www.devex.com/news/how-embassies-are-tackling-covid-19-vaccinations-99505

 

 

However, I think that could change over time and depending on the circumstances.  For example, if the Thai government came out with a firm policy that said vaccines were for Thai nationals only, and countries were free to offer vaccines to their own citizens.

 

I recall the US Embassy kept insisting that they would absolutely NOT issue Covid Extensions letters that Thai Immigration started to require months back....  Until they did start issuing letters.

Well, how is that very different from what we've already been told? That f-rangs are in back of Thais, even f-rangs with high risk conditions? 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, asiacurious said:

 

Would that matter?  Embassies are sovereign territory.  Thailand would have no say over what goes on inside another country's embassy.

 

Also, most embassies will have a medical professional on staff (likely a military medical doctor, but at least a registered nurse).

Well, any package must at least enter "regular" Thailand and be transported in "regular" Thailand before reaching embassies. 

[Phillip9]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

This thread is about them making it available to other British citizens.

 

Yah, obviously everyone knows that.  Point being this wouldn't be hard for an embassy to do as others have said.  They have already done it for their staff, it would be easy to expand the program to all citizens.

[Jingthing]

As far as Americans are concerned, I think it's clear that vaccinating non-embassy related Americans abroad BEFORE Thailand gets it together would be a political powder keg and definitely ain't gonna happen. I also don't see much hope even it becomes clear that we're being badly shafted AFTER Thailand gets it together. They can always just say -- YANKEE GO HOME. 

[asiacurious]

46 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, any package must at least enter "regular" Thailand and be transported in "regular" Thailand before reaching embassies. 

 

Under the Vienna Convention, anything/everything sent via diplomatic bag/pouch has diplomatic immunity.  It can't be searched or seized by other countries.  And a diplomatic bag could be the size of a backpack, or the size of a shipping container.

 

There is legally nothing that would stop or prohibit embassies from importing vaccines and administering them to whomever they want on embassy property.

[asiacurious]

44 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

As far as Americans are concerned, I think it's clear that vaccinating non-embassy related Americans abroad BEFORE Thailand gets it together would be a political powder keg and definitely ain't gonna happen. I also don't see much hope even it becomes clear that we're being badly shafted AFTER Thailand gets it together. They can always just say -- YANKEE GO HOME. 

 

Unfortunately, I think you're probably right.

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The UK Embassy have vaccinated their own staff (AZ vaccine), and those working for the British Council (both Brits and Thais).  I did enquire as to whether there was a chance of extending it to other Brits (at a price), but no response.

Do you have evidence for this?

[asiacurious]

Interesting article here....

 

 

A couple of quotes....

 

Quote

More than 5 million Americans residing outside the United States face a similar predicament, watching the country’s successful inoculation drive, some from places where vaccination has scarcely begun....  Why, some overseas Americans are wondering, should they be left out?

 

And this....

 

Quote

It comes down to what responsibility, if any, the U.S. government has to its overseas citizens. The U.S. is unusual among most countries in that its citizens must still file annual tax returns even if they don’t live in America. All of its citizens, regardless of where they live, are also eligible to vote. So as taxpayers and voters, don’t these citizens have a legitimate claim to the U.S. government’s aid in a public-health crisis?

 

 

SOURCE: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/americans-who-still-cant-get-vaccinated/618622/

 

The whole piece is worth a read.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by asiacurious

[Disparate Dan]

5 hours ago, asiacurious said:

Would that matter?  Embassies are sovereign territory.  Thailand would have no say over what goes on inside another country's embassy.

But would Thailand recognise said jab as valid" - ie to fly, or drink, or .....?

In any case, TV readers would deluge with complaints because they live too far from the embassy, or can't make it on the appointed day, or refuse to show passport as ID, or it's the wrong colour or some such..........

[jayboy]

10 hours ago, asiacurious said:

Interesting article here....

 

 

A couple of quotes....

 

 

And this....

 

 

 

SOURCE: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/americans-who-still-cant-get-vaccinated/618622/

 

The whole piece is worth a read.

 

If advanced economies like the US or the UK have diplomats in countries which have an inadequate health structure and/or where there is the unlikelihood of obtaining Covid vaccines within an acceptable time period, then it seems completely reasonable - indeed mandatory - to ensure their people receive protection with vaccines sent via diplomatic mail and other privileged means.

 

However Thailand does not fall into this category.There are large US and UK expatriate populations here and resident diplomats, if their managers have any sense of honor and integrity, should experience the same process as their fellow citizens.

 

That might mean waiting a few months and in the meantime taking all due measures to protect themselves.

 

If however it's decided there's one approach for diplomats and another for resident expatriates, it's not actually wrong but it would be hard to respect the people involved in that decision.

 

To be clear I have no knowledge whether diplomats have been quietly supplied with vaccines  or not.I suspect not because if that had been the case, I'm sure the consular staff who post on this forum would have mentioned it.

 

I