Why can't the Embassy vaccinate British people in Thailand?

[British Consular Team]

There has been a lot of discussions in various threads on the forum about this question. The reason the Embassy cannot provide vaccines for British people in Thailand is as follows: As users of the forum will be aware, the NHS is rolling out the nationwide COVID-19 vaccination programme in the UK. However, as a residence-based system, it does not provide healthcare outside the UK so it can't offer vaccines to British people who live overseas, including in Thailand. As with all other medical treatment you receive here, you need to obtain the COVID vaccine from local healthcare providers.

 

That said, we know that the situation at the moment with regards to how you do this can seem very unclear.  We are in constant discussions with the Ministry of Public Health regarding the vaccination programme in Thailand and the MoPH’s plans to vaccinate foreign residents and will update the Forum along with our travel advice when we get any new information. 

 

We also understand that the the Thai government has said that Covid 19 Vaccines will only be offered to Thai nationals at this time.

The UK Ambassador is raising this as a matter of urgency with the Prime Minister, as well as the Minister of Health. He is asking for clarity on the government policy and for equal access to vaccines for all residents of Thailand, Thai or foreign. Again, we will update the Forum when there is any new information. 

[Scott]

A troll post has been reported and removed.  

 

[Harry2]

Thank you Consular Team, that is exactly the course of action the Ambassador (in conjunction hopefully with other embassies) should be pursuing. Across the world countries are distributing vaccines according to medical need & risk not nationality/race. That is what is happening to Thai expats in UK, it is what should be reciprocated to UK expats in Thailand. 

[placnx]

Embassies should base their response on reality. The NHS excuse is truly regrettable. Will Consular team affirm that they have not been vaccinated, being out of the NHS sphere of influence?

[richard_smith237]

27 minutes ago, placnx said:

Embassies should base their response on reality. The NHS excuse is truly regrettable. Will Consular team affirm that they have not been vaccinated, being out of the NHS sphere of influence?

 

Those working for the FCO and British Chamber of commerce fall under British residential status, continue to pay Tax in the UK and remain under the umbrella of the the NHS. 

 

You’ll have to look harder for your criticism. 

 

 

With all the debate about whether or not foreigners receive the vaccine, who do you think is in the background lobbying the Thai Government to prevent them from the clumsily abhorrent potential of levying elevated charges on foreigners to receive the vaccine in Thailand etc ???

 

We have very little idea of what occurs behind the scenes but I trust that we have representatives doing their diplomatic best to ensure fair treatment. 

 

Equally so, do you really think it feasible for the British Government to bring in 200,000 doses of vaccine to ensure the safety of its citizens while Thai’s are still struggling to secure sufficient vaccine.

.....Then you would have all the British whingers who live in the provinces complaining because the British Government didn’t arrange to have the vaccine transported to them in the countryside..... And then we’d have all those British whingers complaining because they haven’t been offered the vaccine they wanted.....

 

Ultimately, its not the British Government (Embassy’s) responsibility to provide us healthcare, but they can lobby and ensure that we are not excluded from options made available to Thai’s....

 

I don’t know why any of us would expect more than this... some just have an inflated sense of entitlement. 

 

 

 

 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I don’t know why any of us would expect more than this... some just have an inflated sense of entitlement. 

 

 

It's about reciprocity. All Thais in the UK, even illegals or those with no right of abode are getting vaccinated for free, without prejudice or scrutiny from immigration. This is in stark contrast to the attitude from certain quarters of Thai society and governance.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[placnx]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Those working for the FCO and British Chamber of commerce fall under British residential status, continue to pay Tax in the UK and remain under the umbrella of the the NHS. 

 

You’ll have to look harder for your criticism. 

 

 

With all the debate about whether or not foreigners receive the vaccine, who do you think is in the background lobbying the Thai Government to prevent them from the clumsily abhorrent potential of levying elevated charges on foreigners to receive the vaccine in Thailand etc ???

 

We have very little idea of what occurs behind the scenes but I trust that we have representatives doing their diplomatic best to ensure fair treatment. 

 

Equally so, do you really think it feasible for the British Government to bring in 200,000 doses of vaccine to ensure the safety of its citizens while Thai’s are still struggling to secure sufficient vaccine.

.....Then you would have all the British whingers who live in the provinces complaining because the British Government didn’t arrange to have the vaccine transported to them in the countryside..... And then we’d have all those British whingers complaining because they haven’t been offered the vaccine they wanted.....

 

Ultimately, its not the British Government (Embassy’s) responsibility to provide us healthcare, but they can lobby and ensure that we are not excluded from options made available to Thai’s....

 

I don’t know why any of us would expect more than this... some just have an inflated sense of entitlement. 

 

 

 

 

Under ordinary circumstances, I would agree that the Embassy is not the place for health care. If there were a transparent, rational plan through local means for vaccinating British citizens, there would be no need to consider extraordinary measures. Using the J&J vaccine, single jab, would make sense in this case. This would at least make it practical for those who can get to British premises somewhere in Thailand.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

Under ordinary circumstances, I would agree that the Embassy is not the place for health care.

And it still isn’t. 

 

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

If there were a transparent, rational plan through local means for vaccinating British citizens, there would be no need to consider extraordinary measures.

There is a plan in place, the same plan that’s in place for the Thai population. 

Why should we British Nationals in Thailand receive a vaccine ahead of the Thai population we live amongst?

 

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

Using the J&J vaccine, single jab, would make sense in this case.

 

OK, how would you get it here ?

How would you get the licence to import medication ?

How would you store 55,000 doses ? 

How would you distribute them ?

Has the J&J vaccine been approved for use yet? has it been approved for use in Thailand ?

 

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

This would at least make it practical for those who can get to British premises somewhere in Thailand.

 

Are you proposing that 55,000 people ascend on the British Embassy for a vaccine ?

 

For arguments sake: Say 1 person is vaccinated every minute ‘on British Premises) - 60 per hour (8hr day), 480 per day, 2400 per week

It would take 6 months to vaccinate the British Population in Thailand (and thats for one dose).

 

Then we would have people arguing about which type of vaccine... Moderna, Pfiezer, AZ ?

 

Would family of British Citizens also be vaccinated? welcome to another can of worms.... 

 

 

 

The reality is even if the legal complexities could be dealt with, the British Embassy is unable to handle the logistics of vaccinating British Citizens in Thailand, the undertaking is too large to be practical or even safe.

 

Thailand is already well placed to start vaccination and is doing so from next month, I can’t see how the British Embassy cannot improve on that time scale. Perhaps they could have if vaccinations started back in January, but what of every other foreign Mission in other nations? An estimated 5.5 million British people live overseas, how can they all be vaccinated by the British Government?

 

The only realistic thing the British Embassy can do is to ensure that its citizens are included in any vaccination plans the Thai Government make. 

 

 

The issue with these criticisms is that judgement is often passed without thought. So....  I would ask people like you placnx, How would you do it ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[placnx]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

And it still isn’t. 

 

There is a plan in place, the same plan that’s in place for the Thai population. 

Why should we British Nationals in Thailand receive a vaccine ahead of the Thai population we live amongst?

 

 

OK, how would you get it here ?

How would you get the licence to import medication ?

How would you store 55,000 doses ? 

How would you distribute them ?

Has the J&J vaccine been approved for use yet? has it been approved for use in Thailand ?

 

 

Are you proposing that 55,000 people ascend on the British Embassy for a vaccine ?

 

For arguments sake: Say 1 person is vaccinated every minute ‘on British Premises) - 60 per hour (8hr day), 480 per day, 2400 per week

It would take 6 months to vaccinate the British Population in Thailand (and thats for one dose).

 

Then we would have people arguing about which type of vaccine... Moderna, Pfiezer, AZ ?

 

Would family of British Citizens also be vaccinated? welcome to another can of worms.... 

 

 

 

The reality is even if the legal complexities could be dealt with, the British Embassy is unable to handle the logistics of vaccinating British Citizens in Thailand, the undertaking is too large to be practical or even safe.

 

Thailand is already well placed to start vaccination and is doing so from next month, I can’t see how the British Embassy cannot improve on that time scale. Perhaps they could have if vaccinations started back in January, but what of every other foreign Mission in other nations? An estimated 5.5 million British people live overseas, how can they all be vaccinated by the British Government?

 

The only realistic thing the British Embassy can do is to ensure that its citizens are included in any vaccination plans the Thai Government make. 

 

 

The issue with these criticisms is that judgement is often passed without thought. So....  I would ask people like you placnx, How would you do it ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You certainly put out an avalanche of questions.

 

First of all, not all 55K Brits are so much in need. Let's consider those most at risk, older people. Although there are clotting issues similar to AZ, the cases involved women aged 18-48, so not the target group. The question remains when the J&J vaccine will be approved in the UK. That would be a sensible criterion. This vaccine is easier to transport in-country as well, and requires a single dose.

 

There are various British facilities in Thailand besides the Embassy, so perhaps the vaccination effort could be disseminated, possibly needing some indulgence from Thai authorities. You many need some doctors and nurses to help. Is that really a problem?

 

Importing vaccine: If it comes in by a diplomatic shipment, do we really need the medicine to obtain local approval? 

 

While it is to be hoped that the Thai government can do the bidding of the British legation, considering all of the recent contradictory statements, doesn't it behoove the British government to have a backup plan? At some point, it may simply be unacceptable to remonstrate ad infinitum.

 

If the British head of household can get vaccinated this way, non-British family members can hopefully qualify for vaccination under the local scheme. Main point is that the virus is not going to wait around for the Thai government to make up its mind.

 

I certainly hope that the Embassy in New Delhi finds a way to assist British citizens there. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

You certainly put out an avalanche of questions.

Questions that are necessary don’t you think ??? - so that we don’t make blind sweeping statements such as ’The Embassy should vaccinate us’ !

 

Quote

First of all, not all 55K Brits are so much in need. Let's consider those most at risk, older people. Although there are clotting issues similar to AZ, the cases involved women aged 18-48, so not the target group. The question remains when the J&J vaccine will be approved in the UK. That would be a sensible criterion. This vaccine is easier to transport in-country as well, and requires a single dose.

Differentiate just by age, what about other risk groups? Who makes the decision and based on what criteria? who is qualified to go through the 100’s or 1000’s of applications with medical proof of risk criteria ?

 

Quote

There are various British facilities in Thailand besides the Embassy, so perhaps the vaccination effort could be disseminated,

What are the other properties considered ‘British Soil’ ??? 

 

Quote

possibly needing some indulgence from Thai authorities. You many need some doctors and nurses to help. Is that really a problem?

To take them away from the Thai hospitals administering the vaccines ??? Those same doctors and nurses could be better utilised vaccinating those in area’s of high population density, the slums etc, key worker, teachers etc.... 

 

Quote

Importing vaccine: If it comes in by a diplomatic shipment, do we really need the medicine to obtain local approval? 

Do items brought in diplomatically not then need to remain on sovereign soil or at least not be distributed amongst the public domain ? Any legal implications to distributing it to other areas around Thailand, i.e. British Club, British Consul offices etc ?

 

Quote

While it is to be hoped that the Thai government can do the bidding of the British legation, considering all of the recent contradictory statements, doesn't it behoove the British government to have a backup plan? At some point, it may simply be unacceptable to remonstrate ad infinitum.

Do the Thai people have a back up plan? we have chosen to live in Thailand. 

People who are so desperate for their vaccine could go home. The backup plan is to ensure Thailand is fully supported in securing the vaccines and distributing them without prejudice. 

 

Quote

If the British head of household can get vaccinated this way, non-British family members can hopefully qualify for vaccination under the local scheme. Main point is that the virus is not going to wait around for the Thai government to make up its mind.

I fully expect that I can get vaccinated at the same time of within a very close time frame as my Wife. 

We may opt not to take Sinovac if we can buy Moderna or Pfizer, or AZ - (just for the simple reason that the ability to travel may be impacted for those who’ve taken Sinovac - yet to be conformed of course).

 

IF I were to obtain the vaccine through ‘British Channels’ (i.e. Embassy) I would fully expect my Wife to be afforded the same privilege. I would be upset if the Biritsh Government did not honour the equal status of a foreign spouse.

 

Quote

I certainly hope that the Embassy in New Delhi finds a way to assist British citizens there. 

 

Repatriation flights.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by richard_smith237

[adammike]

You should direct your question to Mr A.B.Johnson of downing Street London.He sold of what was left of the British Embassy in Bangkok,I believe they are now in two rooms and a broom cupboard in a cookie cutter office block off wireless road.

[sirineou]

 They don't even want to provide you with a certificate of income, and you think they will go through the trouble to bring the vaccine to you, in Thailand,, because it is inconvenient for you to return to your country for it? 

Why don't you ask them to also bring you some Fish and Chips while they are at it .LOL . 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

11 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

 

It's about reciprocity. All Thais in the UK, even illegals or those with no right of abode are getting vaccinated for free, without prejudice or scrutiny from immigration. This is in stark contrast to the attitude from certain quarters of Thai society and governance.

 

 

 

 

Thais legally living in the UK have paid an NHS surcharge.

[fulhamster]

Yet a Thai government official said only yesterday "Go to your own Embassy and they will provide a vaccine" ie don't bother asking us.

 

So we know where we stand regarding priority here. Agreed that Thais should be before us, but at least have some left when the time comes.

 

Reciprocity ?? Thais in the UK have received Free vaccines, What chance of us receiving the same ?

 

 

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Thais legally living in the UK have paid an NHS surcharge.

 

Yes, but overseas visitors to England, including anyone living in the UK without permission, will not be charged for testing, treatment and vaccination against Covid-19, no Immigration checks are required.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/covid-19-migrant-health-guide

[Surelynot]

9 hours ago, adammike said:

You should direct your question to Mr A.B.Johnson of downing Street London.He sold of what was left of the British Embassy in Bangkok,I believe they are now in two rooms and a broom cupboard in a cookie cutter office block off wireless road.

Global Britain........he needs the money for his two airplanes and his yacht (plus new wallpaper)

Edited May 8, 2021 by Surelynot

[petermik]

7 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Global Britain........he needs the money for his two airplanes and his yacht (plus new wallpaper)

Is that the green eyed monster I detect.....

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

Is that the green eyed monster I detect.....

Yes....only have one airplane and one yacht.

[placnx]

20 minutes ago, Brierley said:

"Re your diverse concerns about legalities, availabilities of medical staff, to get to a practical solution nitpicking is hardly the way to go about it".

 

Neither is insulting the intelligence of Embassy staff, per your opening statement, just because YOU don't get it.

Re "insulting", no need to lose face. I can't joke a bit about the rather hysterical reaction to my fairly brief initial suggestion on how to have a backup plan?

 

The Embassy would obviously have to get technical help and instructions from London, so this is not a problem easily solved. 

 

As for "nitpicking", in Thailand there are many laws, but people are practical in solving problems created by conflicting edicts. So thinking positively is useful in getting past obstacles.

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post and reply have been removed

[billd766]

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Those working for the FCO and British Chamber of commerce fall under British residential status, continue to pay Tax in the UK and remain under the umbrella of the the NHS. 

 

You’ll have to look harder for your criticism. 

 

 

With all the debate about whether or not foreigners receive the vaccine, who do you think is in the background lobbying the Thai Government to prevent them from the clumsily abhorrent potential of levying elevated charges on foreigners to receive the vaccine in Thailand etc ???

 

We have very little idea of what occurs behind the scenes but I trust that we have representatives doing their diplomatic best to ensure fair treatment. 

 

Equally so, do you really think it feasible for the British Government to bring in 200,000 doses of vaccine to ensure the safety of its citizens while Thai’s are still struggling to secure sufficient vaccine.

.....Then you would have all the British whingers who live in the provinces complaining because the British Government didn’t arrange to have the vaccine transported to them in the countryside..... And then we’d have all those British whingers complaining because they haven’t been offered the vaccine they wanted.....

 

Ultimately, its not the British Government (Embassy’s) responsibility to provide us healthcare, but they can lobby and ensure that we are not excluded from options made available to Thai’s....

 

I don’t know why any of us would expect more than this... some just have an inflated sense of entitlement. 

 

 

 

 

But many of us British expats ALSO pay tax in the UK but still get nothing in return from the UK government. Many still have homes in the UK also and taxes are paid on those too.

[Brierley]

Just now, billd766 said:

But many of us British expats ALSO pay tax in the UK but still get nothing in return from the UK government. Many still have homes in the UK also and taxes are paid on those too.

I just finished filing my self assessment and had the option to declare myself non-resident for the year. I decided instead to file as though I was UK resident, which I would have been, were it not for the virus. This resulted in me paying tax, big deal, I benefit sufficiently already from having a home there, having access to NHS, receiving my pension and having a UK passport. I don't feel the need to account for every Pound I spend in tax and then demand something in return. If I can't hand over 500 quid in tax to my government for the privilege of it all, there's something not quite right.

[Excel]

So if as you state it can not provide healthcare to British people outside of the UK pethaps you could explain why almost all the British people at the Embassy were vaccinated whilst here in Thailand ? Further why is it  that foreigners  ie supporting staff at the Bangkok Embassy who were not British were also vaccinated at the UKs taxpayers expense ?

[Excel]

17 hours ago, placnx said:

Embassies should base their response on reality. The NHS excuse is truly regrettable. Will Consular team affirm that they have not been vaccinated, being out of the NHS sphere of influence?

Of course they will not as they have all been vaccinated. 

[Joe15]

As an Australian living in Thailand I would like to Congratulate  the British  consul for writing to the forum. can anyone imagine  the Aussie bureaucrats  actually getting their snouts out of the trough long enough to provide any advice ?

 

[Thomas J]

Easiest solution is to have the various countries including the UK make arrangements with the drug companies to supply vaccines to hospital and other accredited health facilities and let the expatriates go there and pay for the vaccine.  Assuming Johnson & Johnson is approved and effective for all age groups for just over 300 thb you could get inoculated.  Traveling to an embassy or other government facility to get a "free" vaccine will cost you a lot more than traveling to a local health facility.  

 
 

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, Excel said:

So if as you state it can not provide healthcare to British people outside of the UK pethaps you could explain why almost all the British people at the Embassy were vaccinated whilst here in Thailand ? Further why is it  that foreigners  ie supporting staff at the Bangkok Embassy who were not British were also vaccinated at the UKs taxpayers expense ?

 

Answer is obvious.... 

 

They are still working for the British Government, continue to fall under the NHS umbrella and continue to pay British Taxes. 

 

Non-British staff at the Embassy and British Chamber of commerce are also working for the British Government.

 

It would be highly irregular to vaccinate only the British nationals... Imagine the optics of not vaccinating Thai staff when all others are vaccinated. Additionally, it would highly the stupidity of not vaccinating everyone in the work place so the work place is better protected. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Easiest solution is to have the various countries including the UK make arrangements with the drug companies to supply vaccines to hospital and other accredited health facilities and let the expatriates go there and pay for the vaccine.  Assuming Johnson & Johnson is approved and effective for all age groups for just over 300 thb you could get inoculated.  Traveling to an embassy or other government facility to get a "free" vaccine will cost you a lot more than traveling to a local health facility.  

 

Agreed.... 

 

The best thing the British Embassy (and all other Embassies) can do is to lobby the Thai government for a faster approval process to approve the other vaccines which have not yet been approved (only AZ, Sinvac, Janssen have been approved in Thailand so far). 

 

Then ensure all foreign national have equal access to the vaccines at their local healthcare facility. 

 

Embassies can also assist in expediting export / import of the vaccines to speed up the process on a national level for Thailand.

 

 

 

Undertaking individual efforts to import a vaccines to each individual nationality will quite likely achieve a slower availability of the vaccine to many individuals. 

 

 

[Thomas J]

52 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Undertaking individual efforts to import a vaccines to each individual nationality will quite likely achieve a slower availability of the vaccine to many individuals

One thing is for sure, you have the best and the brightest minds of all the governments around the world.  They will certainly marshal all the experts to contact the various governments, vaccine companies, logistic companies, and health care facilities.  They will present a list of expedited practices and write papers weighing the pro's and con's of each.  After careful deliberation they will reach a consensus on the more effective and efficient way to make those vaccines available.  However, that practice will not be actually put into place until they have tried every other conceivable alternative no matter how foolhardy it appeared upon first examination. 

[Brierley]

2 hours ago, Excel said:

So if as you state it can not provide healthcare to British people outside of the UK pethaps you could explain why almost all the British people at the Embassy were vaccinated whilst here in Thailand ? Further why is it  that foreigners  ie supporting staff at the Bangkok Embassy who were not British were also vaccinated at the UKs taxpayers expense ?

You really need to ask that question? The UK Embassy is the UK government overseas, if embassy staff are not vaccinated the embassy ceases to function which means the UK is no longer re[resented in Thailand. That means UK subjects overseas don't have ANY embassy support whatsoever. It means they can't get replacement travel documents if their passports are lost and stolen; they can't get married because the embassy wouldn't be able to provide an affirmation of freedom to marry; UK subjects in jail wouldn't be able to access legal support; all UK / Thai related trade facilities would be suspended between the two countries; UK subjects wouldn't be able to get documents certified and residence certificates issued...and so on and so on. TBH it seems a little mean to question why Embassy staff and their support staff are able to get vaccinated whist other UK citizens cannot, it also seems a little obvious why that is also.