‘Vaccine hesitancy’ bites in Thailand – but one province has the antidote

Brierley · May 15, 2021

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Giving people a free and fair choice of which vaccine they take is just common sense, if not a basic human right.

Let's not forget the Thalidomide kids.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#:~:text=In November 1961%2C thalidomide was,of them in West Germany.

I agree that giving people a choice of vaccine is common sense and highly desirable.

But, I continue to stand behind my remarks regarding the earlier comparison.

heybruce · May 15, 2021

1 hour ago, Been There said:

It is widely acknowledged only between ! and 10% of cases are reported to VAERS, before covid, it was accepted it was less than 1%
if they used the same criteria as they do for calculating covid deaths ie: any death within 28 days of a positive test result (even people with a terminal disease, or killed in an accident are included) there is no doubt the death figures would be much higher.
I think there is plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine, never mind 28 days.
The vaccine hasn't been approved by the FDA ... it's only been given emergency authorisation.
So this is still phase three, also can you direct me to the long term effect data ?
But more importantly .... at what point did I say the vaccine was causing deaths ?
Looks like maybe, that's what you are thinking , so accuse me of saying that ?

https://odysee.com/@thetruthwillsetyoufree:f4/dr.-ezike-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-recorded.:8

It is widely acknowledged that "cases" not reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) are usually those so trivial the person experiencing them didn't think they were worth reporting. Twelve hours after my second Moderna vaccination I felt a little run-down and out-of-sorts, 24 hours after the vaccination I felt fine. I didn't bother to report that.

You provide a video of one doctor in one state describing how Covid deaths might be overstated early in the pandemic. You neglect the fact that early in the pandemic people were dying of a Covid like disease with Covid symptoms but weren't counted as Covid deaths because they weren't tested for Covid. In view of this, and the fact that every state set its own criteria for counting Covid deaths and many states sought to minimize the count, an exact count is not possible. However it's safe to assume the numbers given are approximately correct.

I also don't believe your speculation about "plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine". Any sources for that?

The vaccine was given emergency authorization because hundreds of thousands of people had died of Covid in the US, and very few had died after vaccination with none of those deaths attributable to the vaccination.

No, the vaccines in use in the US are in phase 4, not phase 3.

To my knowledge you didn't state the vaccines caused deaths. However in a discussion of the benefits of getting vaccinated it is reasonable to contrast death rates for the disease versus the vaccination.

Of course there is no data for the long term effects of the vaccines, just as there is no data for the long term effects of Covid. However there is data suggesting that the detrimental effects of Covid last for months or longer for a significant number of those infected:

"Britain’s Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates that 14% of people who have tested positive for covid-19 have symptoms which subsequently linger for more than three months (see chart 1). In more than 90% of those cases the original symptoms were not severe enough to warrant admission to hospital. According to the ONS, in the four weeks from February 6th nearly half a million people in Britain reported they had had long covid for more than six months—and this will not include any of those infected towards the end of 2020 in the country’s second wave. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2021/04/29/researchers-are-closing-in-on-long-covid

Vaccines work by injecting into the body a weakened virus, fragment of virus, or protein; things which the body is well adapted to deal with. We infect our bodies with a much wider variety of biological nasties with every cut and scrape that happens routinely in everyday life, yet we manage to survive.

Been There · May 16, 2021

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

It is widely acknowledged that "cases" not reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) are usually those so trivial the person experiencing them didn't think they were worth reporting. Twelve hours after my second Moderna vaccination I felt a little run-down and out-of-sorts, 24 hours after the vaccination I felt fine. I didn't bother to report that.

You provide a video of one doctor in one state describing how Covid deaths might be overstated early in the pandemic. You neglect the fact that early in the pandemic people were dying of a Covid like disease with Covid symptoms but weren't counted as Covid deaths because they weren't tested for Covid. In view of this, and the fact that every state set its own criteria for counting Covid deaths and many states sought to minimize the count, an exact count is not possible. However it's safe to assume the numbers given are approximately correct.

I also don't believe your speculation about "plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine". Any sources for that?

The vaccine was given emergency authorization because hundreds of thousands of people had died of Covid in the US, and very few had died after vaccination with none of those deaths attributable to the vaccination.

No, the vaccines in use in the US are in phase 4, not phase 3.

To my knowledge you didn't state the vaccines caused deaths. However in a discussion of the benefits of getting vaccinated it is reasonable to contrast death rates for the disease versus the vaccination.

Of course there is no data for the long term effects of the vaccines, just as there is no data for the long term effects of Covid. However there is data suggesting that the detrimental effects of Covid last for months or longer for a significant number of those infected:

"Britain’s Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates that 14% of people who have tested positive for covid-19 have symptoms which subsequently linger for more than three months (see chart 1). In more than 90% of those cases the original symptoms were not severe enough to warrant admission to hospital. According to the ONS, in the four weeks from February 6th nearly half a million people in Britain reported they had had long covid for more than six months—and this will not include any of those infected towards the end of 2020 in the country’s second wave. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2021/04/29/researchers-are-closing-in-on-long-covid

Vaccines work by injecting into the body a weakened virus, fragment of virus, or protein; things which the body is well adapted to deal with. We infect our bodies with a much wider variety of biological nasties with every cut and scrape that happens routinely in everyday life, yet we manage to survive.

The video I sent she's not just a doctor ... she is the director of the Illinois Department of Public Health
the British government also confirmed this is how they compile the deaths (any death for any reason within 28 days of a positive test is counted as a covid death) the same as all states in the USA

Personally I don't care if you believe me or not ..... I know you have a clue what you are talking about ! "Vaccines work by injecting into the body a weakened virus" ... this little gem from you shows me all I need to know about your knowledge about these covid vaccines

"RNA vaccines work by introducing into the body a messenger RNA (mRNA) sequence that contains the genetic instructions for the vaccinated person’s own cells to produce the vaccine antigens"
From pfizers own website !...
It's nothing to do with a weakened virus or a fragment of the virus.!
https://www.pfizer.co.uk/behind-science-what-mrna-vaccine

"Despite the unprecedented speed, mRNA vaccines are clinically unproven. No commercially available vaccines use the platform and, until now"
COVID-19 and mRNA Vaccines—First Large Test for a New Approach | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network
If you're happy taking an experimental vaccine that's fine but it's very obvious you haven't done any research so I don't think anyone should be taking advice from you.

Please don't bother answering anymore , it is plain for all to see .... you are arguing from a point of total ignorance and embarrassing yourself, so therefore it's pointless discussing anything with you.

metisdead · May 16, 2021

A post with a music video has been removed as well as a flaming reply.

A post with unsubstantiated information has been removed as there was no supporting link provided.

heybruce · May 16, 2021

4 hours ago, Been There said:

The video I sent she's not just a doctor ... she is the director of the Illinois Department of Public Health
the British government also confirmed this is how they compile the deaths (any death for any reason within 28 days of a positive test is counted as a covid death) the same as all states in the USA

Personally I don't care if you believe me or not ..... I know you have a clue what you are talking about ! "Vaccines work by injecting into the body a weakened virus" ... this little gem from you shows me all I need to know about your knowledge about these covid vaccines

"RNA vaccines work by introducing into the body a messenger RNA (mRNA) sequence that contains the genetic instructions for the vaccinated person’s own cells to produce the vaccine antigens"
From pfizers own website !...
It's nothing to do with a weakened virus or a fragment of the virus.!
https://www.pfizer.co.uk/behind-science-what-mrna-vaccine

"Despite the unprecedented speed, mRNA vaccines are clinically unproven. No commercially available vaccines use the platform and, until now"
COVID-19 and mRNA Vaccines—First Large Test for a New Approach | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network
If you're happy taking an experimental vaccine that's fine but it's very obvious you haven't done any research so I don't think anyone should be taking advice from you.

Please don't bother answering anymore , it is plain for all to see .... you are arguing from a point of total ignorance and embarrassing yourself, so therefore it's pointless discussing anything with you.

The fact that you provided a video of an Illinois doctor doesn't change the fact that different states and countries, have different methods for counting Covid 19 deaths. Statistics on excess death rates generally show that Covid deaths are under-counted, not over-counted.

RNA, mRNA, and proteins are all chains of amino acids. "protein" is the general term for molecules made of amino acids. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines use mRNA.

Other vaccines use "protein subunits" and modified viruses. You should educate yourself before accusing others of ignorance. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fvaccines%2Fabout-vaccines%2Fhow-they-work.html

Your JAMA article is dated September 2020 and uses data from July 2020 and earlier. As already stated, testing was made a priority and mRNA vaccines are now approved for general use. Your source is out of date.

Edited May 16, 2021 by heybruce

Been There · May 16, 2021

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

The fact that you provided a video of an Illinois doctor doesn't change the fact that different states and countries, have different methods for counting Covid 19 deaths. Statistics on excess death rates generally show that Covid deaths are under-counted, not over-counted.

RNA, mRNA, and proteins are all chains of amino acids. "protein" is the general term for molecules made of amino acids. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines use mRNA.

Other vaccines use "protein subunits" and modified viruses. You should educate yourself before accusing others of ignorance. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fvaccines%2Fabout-vaccines%2Fhow-they-work.html

Your JAMA article is dated September 2020 and uses data from July 2020 and earlier. As already stated, testing was made a priority and mRNA vaccines are now approved for general use. Your source is out of date.

Behind the headlines: Counting COVID-19 deaths - Public health matters (blog.gov.uk)

Pfizer First to Seek Full Approval for Covid-19 Vaccine in U.S. (yahoo.com)

The Facts About the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | pfpfizeruscom

All countries are using the same criteria for compiling covid deaths.
Yes ! .... other vaccines do use "modified viruses" .... but not the covid vaccine!!! (You never mentioned any thing about proteins in your previous post)
The MRNA vaccines do not contain wakened or dead virus cells
It doesn't matter what date is on the Jama article .... the MRNA vaccines have never been used on humans before in any large rollout. How can that be out of date ?
Pfiser are the first to apply for full approval (7/5/2021) it hasn't been given yet.
Like I said .... you are totally uneducated in the subject and you are now thoroughly embarrassing yourself. I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

heybruce · May 16, 2021

36 minutes ago, Been There said:

Behind the headlines: Counting COVID-19 deaths - Public health matters (blog.gov.uk)

Pfizer First to Seek Full Approval for Covid-19 Vaccine in U.S. (yahoo.com)

The Facts About the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | pfpfizeruscom

All countries are using the same criteria for compiling covid deaths.
Yes ! .... other vaccines do use "modified viruses" .... but not the covid vaccine!!! (You never mentioned any thing about proteins in your previous post)
The MRNA vaccines do not contain wakened or dead virus cells
It doesn't matter what date is on the Jama article .... the MRNA vaccines have never been used on humans before in any large rollout. How can that be out of date ?
Pfiser are the first to apply for full approval (7/5/2021) it hasn't been given yet.
Like I said .... you are totally uneducated in the subject and you are now thoroughly embarrassing yourself. I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

No, all countries are not using the same criteria for compiling Covid deaths. Where did you get such a nonsensical idea? Your own link makes it clear that in the UK there is not a standard approach to counting Covid deaths. Geez, you claim I'm uneducated and embarrassing myself...

Sinovac (the Chinese vaccine; have you heard of it?) uses inactivated viruses.

I did not say mRNA uses weakened or dead virus cells.

Yes, dates matter. Vaccines not approved ten months ago are now approved.

Full approval means approval for use with all age groups. The Pfizer vaccine has been approved for selected age groups it has been tested with.

You are grasping at straws in a futile attempt to appear informed.

BTW: In view of the fact that informed people understand that no vaccine is 100% effective, how can you claim to be informed when you posted on Friday:

"If the vaccine works, how would an unvaccinated person pose a risk to a one that's been vaccinated ?"

What part of 95% effective do you not understand?

Edited May 16, 2021 by heybruce

Been There · May 16, 2021

37 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, all countries are not using the same criteria for compiling Covid deaths. Where did you get such a nonsensical idea? Your own link makes it clear that in the UK there is not a standard approach to counting Covid deaths. Geez, you claim I'm uneducated and embarrassing myself...

Sinovac (the Chinese vaccine; have you heard of it?) uses inactivated viruses.

I did not say mRNA uses weakened or dead virus cells.

Yes, dates matter. Vaccines not approved ten months ago are now approved.

Full approval means approval for use with all age groups. The Pfizer vaccine has been approved for selected age groups it has been tested with.

You are grasping at straws in a futile attempt to appear informed.

BTW: In view of the fact that informed people understand that no vaccine is 100% effective, how can you claim to be informed when you posted on Friday:

"If the vaccine works, how would an unvaccinated person pose a risk to a one that's been vaccinated ?"

What part of 95% effective do you not understand?

Well ... you obviously didn't read Pfizer's own website
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine has not been approved or licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)

The Facts About the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | pfpfizeruscom

How does an mRNA vaccine work?
mRNA, delivered to your body's cells by lipid nanoparticles, instructs the cells to generate the spike protein found on the surface of the novel coronavirus that initiates infection.1,2 Instructing cells to generate the spike protein spurs an immune response, including generation of antibodies specific to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.

A copied and paste of your earlier quote .. "Vaccines work by injecting into the body a weakened virus, fragment of virus, or protein"
which part are you saying you didn't write ?
Now in desperation you are claiming you meant another unauthorised vaccine (Sinovac) and obviously claiming Pfiser are lying on their own website.
Don't reply to me again ..... it's pointless ...

heybruce · May 16, 2021

38 minutes ago, Been There said:

Well ... you obviously didn't read Pfizer's own website
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine has not been approved or licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)

The Facts About the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | pfpfizeruscom

How does an mRNA vaccine work?
mRNA, delivered to your body's cells by lipid nanoparticles, instructs the cells to generate the spike protein found on the surface of the novel coronavirus that initiates infection.1,2 Instructing cells to generate the spike protein spurs an immune response, including generation of antibodies specific to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.

A copied and paste of your earlier quote .. "Vaccines work by injecting into the body a weakened virus, fragment of virus, or protein"
which part are you saying you didn't write ?
Now in desperation you are claiming you meant another unauthorised vaccine (Sinovac) and obviously claiming Pfiser are lying on their own website.
Don't reply to me again ..... it's pointless ...

Pfizer hasn't updated its website recently, probably because they've been busy with other things. Here's more current information:

"Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration expanded the emergency use authorization (EUA) for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for the prevention of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) to include adolescents 12 through 15 years of age. The FDA amended the EUA originally issued on Dec. 11, 2020 for administration in individuals 16 years of age and older." https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use

I have been discussing Covid vaccines in general, not Pfizer vaccines in particular. How could you have not understood this? When did you state you were only discussing Pfizer vaccines? I meant that different vaccines work by different methods. I thought that was obvious. Nothing I have posted is in conflict with your cut and paste regarding how the Pfizer vaccine works. I also thought it obvious that we were not limiting ourselves to Pfizer vaccines specifically.

You argue against claims I never made, you equate less than 100% effective with 100% effective, you can't defend your claim that all countries use the same criteria to count Covid deaths, you clearly and incorrectly stated that Covid vaccines don't use modified viruses, you refuse to acknowledge that ten month old articles regarding Covid are no longer current, you won't acknowledge that vaccines work by triggering the body's existing and well evolved defensive mechanisms, you ignore data that makes it clear than not getting vaccinated is much riskier than getting vaccinated, etc....

Perhaps you're correct on one point; it's futile to argue with someone like you.

Been There · May 16, 2021

39 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Pfizer hasn't updated its website recently, probably because they've been busy with other things. Here's more current information:

"Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration expanded the emergency use authorization (EUA) for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for the prevention of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) to include adolescents 12 through 15 years of age. The FDA amended the EUA originally issued on Dec. 11, 2020 for administration in individuals 16 years of age and older." https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use

I have been discussing Covid vaccines in general, not Pfizer vaccines in particular. How could you have not understood this? When did you state you were only discussing Pfizer vaccines? I meant that different vaccines work by different methods. I thought that was obvious. Nothing I have posted is in conflict with your cut and paste regarding how the Pfizer vaccine works. I also thought it obvious that we were not limiting ourselves to Pfizer vaccines specifically.

You argue against claims I never made, you equate less than 100% effective with 100% effective, you can't defend your claim that all countries use the same criteria to count Covid deaths, you clearly and incorrectly stated that Covid vaccines don't use modified viruses, you refuse to acknowledge that ten month old articles regarding Covid are no longer current, you won't acknowledge that vaccines work by triggering the body's existing and well evolved defensive mechanisms, you ignore data that makes it clear than not getting vaccinated is much riskier than getting vaccinated, etc....

Perhaps you're correct on one point; it's futile to argue with someone like you.

I said don't reply to me .... but you have (harassment) but seeing you have

The Pfizer website is up to date ... where's your proof it's not ?
Pfizer are the first manufactures to apply for full authorisation .... meaning no other vaccine has been authorised.
https://bdnews24.com/coronavirus-pandemic/2021/05/07/pfizer-and-biontech-apply-for-full-us-approval-for-covid-vaccine#:~:text=Pfizer and the German company BioNTech have become,under an emergency use authorisation granted in December.

You have been wrong with everything you claimed in your first post (just because you want something to be true, doesn't mean it is)

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine has not been approved or licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)

1.   What are the ingredients in the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine?
The ingredients are mRNA, lipids ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and cholesterol), potassium chloride, monobasic potassium phosphate, sodium chloride, dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and sucrose

2.   How does an mRNA vaccine work?
mRNA, delivered to your body's cells by lipid nanoparticles, instructs the cells to generate the spike protein found on the surface of the novel coronavirus that initiates infection.^1,2 Instructing cells to generate the spike protein spurs an immune response, including generation of antibodies specific to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein

8.   Can your vaccine cause people to develop COVID-19?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine does not contain the virus and cannot give you COVID-19.

9.   How long will clinical trial participants be followed? How do we know that bad side effects can’t happen long after vaccination, if the vaccine’s only been studied for less than a year?
Pfizer and BioNTech will track participants in our Phase 3 clinical trial for two years following their second dose, in order to document the long-term effectiveness and safety of the vaccine.

10.   Is the vaccine available for children and adolescents?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is authorized for individuals 12 years of age and older. Younger children are currently being enrolled in our clinical trial

The Facts About the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | pfpfizeruscom

Every thing you have said is wrong !
You've changed direction every post

You're accusing Pfiser of lying on there website !!!!
In short
The vaccine hasn't got full approval
The vaccine doesn't contain "a weakened virus, fragment of virus, or protein"
The vaccine is still in Phase 3 trials.

You have been right about nothing !
Never in my life have I had a discussion with someone who is wrong on every point they make.
I'll be honest I haven't read all of your last post .... I stopped when you started accusing me of saying things I never said ... that's a real sign of desperation ... I think you need some sort of psychiatric help ..... You are denying what you said
accusing me of saying things I haven't
accusing manufactures of lying
Really ... you should get checked out ... maybe the lockdowns are having a worse effect than you thought.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Been There

impulse · May 16, 2021

On 5/12/2021 at 3:09 AM, VocalNeal said:

Doesn't someone who can infect me not getting the vaccine infringe on my human rights. It is like your right to wave your arms about ceases the moment your arms touch me.

Interesting...

If you're a firm believer in the vaccine, you'd get vaccinated and wouldn't have to worry. You'd be protected from anyone "infringing on your human rights" by skipping their own vaccination.

But since virtually no vaccines are available, you're basically urinating up a rope trying to insist others allow goop to be injected into their bodies to protect your rights anyway.

heybruce · May 17, 2021

9 hours ago, Been There said:

I said don't reply to me .... but you have (harassment) but seeing you have

The Pfizer website is up to date ... where's your proof it's not ?
Pfizer are the first manufactures to apply for full authorisation .... meaning no other vaccine has been authorised.
https://bdnews24.com/coronavirus-pandemic/2021/05/07/pfizer-and-biontech-apply-for-full-us-approval-for-covid-vaccine#:~:text=Pfizer and the German company BioNTech have become,under an emergency use authorisation granted in December.

You have been wrong with everything you claimed in your first post (just because you want something to be true, doesn't mean it is)

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine has not been approved or licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)

1.   What are the ingredients in the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine?
The ingredients are mRNA, lipids ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and cholesterol), potassium chloride, monobasic potassium phosphate, sodium chloride, dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and sucrose

2.   How does an mRNA vaccine work?
mRNA, delivered to your body's cells by lipid nanoparticles, instructs the cells to generate the spike protein found on the surface of the novel coronavirus that initiates infection.^1,2 Instructing cells to generate the spike protein spurs an immune response, including generation of antibodies specific to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein

8.   Can your vaccine cause people to develop COVID-19?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine does not contain the virus and cannot give you COVID-19.

9.   How long will clinical trial participants be followed? How do we know that bad side effects can’t happen long after vaccination, if the vaccine’s only been studied for less than a year?
Pfizer and BioNTech will track participants in our Phase 3 clinical trial for two years following their second dose, in order to document the long-term effectiveness and safety of the vaccine.

10.   Is the vaccine available for children and adolescents?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is authorized for individuals 12 years of age and older. Younger children are currently being enrolled in our clinical trial

The Facts About the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | pfpfizeruscom

Every thing you have said is wrong !
You've changed direction every post

You're accusing Pfiser of lying on there website !!!!
In short
The vaccine hasn't got full approval
The vaccine doesn't contain   "a weakened virus, fragment of virus, or protein"
The vaccine is still in Phase 3 trials.

You have been right about nothing !
Never in my life have I had a discussion with someone who is wrong on every point they make.
I'll be honest I haven't read all of your last post .... I stopped when you started accusing me of saying things I never said ... that's a real sign of desperation ... I think you need some sort of psychiatric help ..... You are denying what you said
accusing me of saying things I haven't
accusing manufactures of lying
Really ... you should get checked out ... maybe the lockdowns are having a worse effect than you thought.

Now you're just making stuff up. Emergency authorization is authorization, and I never posted full approval. Nothing I've posted is in conflict with your cut and paste.

Do you deny posting:

"If the vaccine works, how would an unvaccinated person pose a risk to a one that's been vaccinated ?" https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1216849-‘vaccine-hesitancy’-bites-in-thailand-–-but-one-province-has-the-antidote/page/2/#elControls_16475240_menu

Your naive question shows that you don't understand that no vaccine is 100% effective. If you don't understand this basic fact, how can you be trusted for any other information on vaccines?

BTW: When you post misinformation I have every right to refute it, and you have no right to prevent me from doing so.

heybruce · May 17, 2021

1 hour ago, Been There said:

I have asked you politely to stop sending you ridiculous post to me ...... it appears you may not be of sound mind and body.
You have been wrong on every point you made in your first post, culminating in accusing Pfiser of lying on their website
You said .." Phase IV formal, ongoing studies after the vaccine is approved and licensed."
The Pfiser website clearly states they are still in Phase3 and clearly states it has not been approved and licensed. ... They only applied for full approval 10/11 days ago.
You claim Pfiser are to busy to update their website ! .... Do you think the scientists working on the vaccine also double up as the IT department to update the website ? ..... you know how ludicrous that sounds ?
It's not me who's lost it ....

You trust the Pfizer website, so I assume you trust this:

"Pfizer and BioNTech Conclude Phase 3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, Meeting All Primary Efficacy Endpoints' https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

Phase 3 for the Pfizer vaccine was completed six months ago.

Now perhaps you can explain why you assumed someone who has been vaccinated can't catch Covid from someone who is unvaccinated. After that we can revisit your ridiculous claim "All countries are using the same criteria for compiling covid deaths. "

In other words, you can explain why you have made obviously false statements that anyone with a passing knowledge of the pandemic knows are false, and why anyone should pay any attention to your posts.

Been There · May 17, 2021

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You trust the Pfizer website, so I assume you trust this:

"Pfizer and BioNTech Conclude Phase 3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, Meeting All Primary Efficacy Endpoints' https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

Phase 3 for the Pfizer vaccine was completed six months ago.

Now perhaps you can explain why you assumed someone who has been vaccinated can't catch Covid from someone who is unvaccinated. After that we can revisit your ridiculous claim "All countries are using the same criteria for compiling covid deaths. "

In other words, you can explain why you have made obviously false statements that anyone with a passing knowledge of the pandemic knows are false, and why anyone should pay any attention to your posts.

"announced that, after conducting the final efficacy analysis in their ongoing Phase 3 study, their mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine

"
Which part of ongoing do you not understand ? ...... from your link ... so you haven't read it !

heybruce · May 17, 2021

I think there is plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine, never mind 28 days.

13 minutes ago, Been There said:

"announced that, after conducting the final efficacy analysis in their ongoing Phase 3 study, their mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine

"
Which part of ongoing do you not understand ? ...... from your link ... so you haven't read it !

"Safety data milestone required by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) has been achieved"

"The trial will continue to collect efficacy and safety data in participants for an additional two years. "

They met Phase 3 objectives required for approval. They will continue to collect follow-up data, which is the responsible thing to do. However the key point is that the Phase 3 objectives have been met and approval for use granted.

Do you suggest that governments allow millions more to die of Covid for two more years before using vaccines that have been shown to be safe and effective?

Or will you finally provide evidence to support one of your many false statements, "I think there is plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine, never mind 28 days."?

metisdead · May 17, 2021

A post with a link to an unapproved social media site has been removed:

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

Some inflammatory posts have been removed.

Edited May 17, 2021 by metisdead
Highlighted the specifics of the forum rule.

Been There · May 17, 2021

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I think there is plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine, never mind 28 days.

"Safety data milestone required by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) has been achieved"

"The trial will continue to collect efficacy and safety data in participants for an additional two years. "

They met Phase 3 objectives required for approval. They will continue to collect follow-up data, which is the responsible thing to do. However the key point is that the Phase 3 objectives have been met and approval for use granted.

Do you suggest that governments allow millions more to die of Covid for two more years before using vaccines that have been shown to be safe and effective?

Or will you finally provide evidence to support one of your many false statements, "I think there is plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine, never mind 28 days."?

Tucker: How many Americans have died after taking COVID vaccines? | Fox News Video

gargamon · May 17, 2021

28 minutes ago, Been There said:

Tucker: How many Americans have died after taking COVID vaccines? | Fox News Video

You fox news people really don't get it, do you? Fox News recently won a court case by 'persuasively' arguing that no 'reasonable viewer' takes Tucker Carlson seriously. But then again, I guess you're not a reasonable viewer.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9

Been There · May 17, 2021

19 minutes ago, gargamon said:

You fox news people really don't get it, do you? Fox News recently won a court case by 'persuasively' arguing that no 'reasonable viewer' takes Tucker Carlson seriously. But then again, I guess you're not a reasonable viewer.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9

So which MSM is telling the truth ?
and why are you focusing on the reader ... not the content ?

Edited May 17, 2021 by Been There

gargamon · May 17, 2021

52 minutes ago, Been There said:

why are you focusing on the reader ... not the content ?

Clearly, fox news content is questionable. Even fox news admits it, as referenced above. I wouldn't waste my time looking at any content sourced on fox news. They will twist the truth so it matches whatever brainwashing their propaganda machine has generated that day.

Been There · May 17, 2021

17 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Clearly, fox news content is questionable. Even fox news admits it, as referenced above. I wouldn't waste my time looking at any content sourced on fox news. They will twist the truth so it matches whatever brainwashing their propaganda machine has generated that day.

You still didn't say which MSM tells the truth .... The figures he was quoting were official government figures .... from a government run website, are you claiming the government is lying ?

thvima · May 17, 2021

hello, do you know if all people living in provinces will have a mobile vaccination truck visit them ? thank you.

Been There · May 17, 2021

19 minutes ago, thvima said:

hello, do you know if all people living in provinces will have a mobile vaccination truck visit them ? thank you.

It seems plenty of people on Thaivisa would like that.

gargamon · May 17, 2021

1 hour ago, Been There said:

You still didn't say which MSM tells the truth .... The figures he was quoting were official government figures .... from a government run website, are you claiming the government is lying ?

All news providers have a varying amount of accuracy. The good ones, when they make a mistake or error in their reporting, will admit it and correct their mistake. Fox news never admits their screw ups, and even persists reporting the false info after the errors have been flagged.

Here's a link to a comparison of many news organization and how accurate/biased they are. https://towardsdatascience.com/how-statistically-biased-is-our-news-f28f0fab3cb3 It is relatively simple so you should be able to understand it.

As for Carlson's rant on people dying from vaccinations, I kind of doubt he's capable of understanding/interpreting the gov't info without twisting it into whatever lie he is pushing.

heybruce · May 17, 2021

6 hours ago, Been There said:

Tucker: How many Americans have died after taking COVID vaccines? | Fox News Video

Tucker Calson is an entertainer, not a news reporter. He cites a VAERS report that thousands have died after receiving a Covid vaccination without telling you how many were vaccinated (over 100 million people over a five month period). That certainly doesn't support your post "I think there is plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine, never mind 28 days."

I addressed the Tucker nonsense here: https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1216849-‘vaccine-hesitancy’-bites-in-thailand-–-but-one-province-has-the-antidote/page/2/#elControls_16478374_menu

You know that because you commented on it. Of course you ignored the facts I posted from the CDC:

"Over 259 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 10, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,434 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. ....... A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

A death rate of 0.0017% of a population that is disproportionate seniors is not worrying, it is reassuring.

heybruce · May 17, 2021

5 hours ago, Been There said:

So which MSM is telling the truth ?
and why are you focusing on the reader ... not the content ?

MSM that tells the truth: Reuters, API, Barrons, The Wall Street Journal (news, not opinions), Fox print news (not Tucker and other pundit clowns), Bloomberg, The Economist, and many others. None of them are perfect, but when they make a mistake they acknowledge and correct it.

Been There · May 17, 2021

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

MSM that tells the truth: Reuters, API, Barrons, The Wall Street Journal (news, not opinions), Fox print news (not Tucker and other pundit clowns), Bloomberg, The Economist, and many others. None of them are perfect, but when they make a mistake they acknowledge and correct it.

I didn't ask your opinion .... and frankly I don't want it ...
So which government website figures are you claiming are lies ?
I think Tucker Carlson has achieved more than you ever will in life. ... If he's a clown ... what does that make you ?

Been There · May 17, 2021

11 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Tucker Calson is an entertainer, not a news reporter. He cites a VAERS report that thousands have died after receiving a Covid vaccination without telling you how many were vaccinated (over 100 million people over a five month period). That certainly doesn't support your post "I think there is plenty of evidence where healthy people have died within hours of getting the vaccine, never mind 28 days."

I addressed the Tucker nonsense here: https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1216849-‘vaccine-hesitancy’-bites-in-thailand-–-but-one-province-has-the-antidote/page/2/#elControls_16478374_menu

You know that because you commented on it. Of course you ignored the facts I posted from the CDC:

"Over 259 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 10, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,434 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. ....... A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

A death rate of 0.0017% of a population that is disproportionate seniors is not worrying, it is reassuring.

Already answered all that .... next!

heybruce · May 17, 2021

45 minutes ago, Been There said:

I understand that is absolute BS ....
I think Carlson has achieved a bit more in his life than you ever will.

Mainstream media is 'deliberately engaging in propaganda' to control 'the way you think' - YouTube

Oh and well done on claiming a government website is lying ..... you're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist.

Tucker Carlson is a born rich brat who pretends to represent the average man. Cory Bernardi is a bigot, misogynist, science denier and failed Australian politician. Sky News is another Rupert Murdoch creation that, like Fox News, focuses on infotainment.

Been There · May 17, 2021

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Tucker Carlson is a born rich brat who pretends to represent the average man. Cory Bernardi is a bigot, misogynist, science denier and failed Australian politician. Sky News is another Rupert Murdoch creation that, like Fox News, focuses on infotainment.

They have both achieved more than you in life .... how bad does that make you ?

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