Here's a query for experienced visa experts only

[Tapster]

Firstly, this is not about me. The family involved aren't on TV, so I said I'd post this on their behalf.

 

The facts:   

British family in Phuket; a man and his adult son.

The son had a bike accident in 2020 and has since been recovering from a traumatic brain injury. He needs a carer and that's his 70-year-old father.

The son has a letter from his Thai neurosurgeon saying that he cannot fly.

 

For some reason the hospital lost the son's UK passport, in November 2020. This meant that the son's visa was not renewed. I don't know what type of visa it was. However, the No.2 immigration officer at Phuket Port Immigration said to the father, and I paraphrase: 'don't worry, it'll be fine. Your son will get a new visa because of his health problems, and you'll have a visa as your son's carer. Come back and see me when you have the new passport for your son'.

 

This is where I think problems began.

The passport took a very long time to come; it arrived late April 2021. The father had let six months pass since he'd last contacted immigration. 

 

Yesterday the father spoke to the Lieutenant Colonel at Phuket Immigration, the No.1 guy. Apparently, too much time has now elapsed since the last contact with Immigration and further visas will be impossible, for both father and son. He went on to say that father and son are not going to be deported; they can leave whenever they like and pay the required overstay fines at the airport.

 

The UK embassy in BKK have not been told this story, since an earlier enquiry before things got to this stage, received a response explaining that the UK cannot get involved in Thai immigration matters.

I don't want to think badly of the UK embassy but what are they for, if not to help British citizens with problems in foreign countries.

 

All the two guys in this case want, is to stay in Thailand legitimately, so that the father can care for his son.

It seems that they can stay, but in an illegal sort of limbo, that they are not very happy about. I certainly wouldn't be happy in such a position, either.

 

Surely the goodwill shown by Immigration, back in 2020, can be extended to provide visas for these two men. The son cannot even fly out of Thailand.

 

Please can anyone give any advice on this case?

Has the UK embassy intervened in similar cases?

 

Who can these two men appeal to, for help?

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Tapster

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Experienced Connected combined Immigration Lawyer  / Agent Required .........

[pagallim]

My first port of call would be Martin Carpenter, the UK Honorary Consul here in Phuket.   Between his contacts at the British Embassy in BKK and his local contacts his advice would be invaluable.

[Tapster]

@pagallim

 

Thank you very much. I'll tell them tomorrow.

 

????

[Ventenio]

57 minutes ago, Tapster said:

He went on to say that father and son are not going to be deported; they can leave whenever they like and pay the required overstay fines at the airport.

IF only this was in writing, which I must assume is not.

 

I'd be happy to stay another 40-years and pay the 20,000.  

 

anyhow, horrible story, my heart goes out to everyone involved.  

 

Understand we are simply TVF jokers....take all the "advice" as if it is just that.....

 

gofundme for sure.   second opinion on flying.  go to the embassy in person.  the squeaky wheel will get oil.....  but you gotta do the leg work and make those calls, emails, appearances..

 

best of luck 

[jackdd]

I think the chance that the son will get another extension is basically zero. (Is the father also on overstay? Then expect the same outcome)

The longer he is on over stay, the longer the ban will be once he leaves.

He should leave Thailand as soon as possible and expect to be banned for a certain time. If his father needs to care for him then he will have to leave with him.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by jackdd

[Tapster]

@jackdd

 

If they leave, I don't think they'll worry about coming back. They have no ties here.

 

Immigration have left them in a weird situation and they need it sorted.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Tapster

[pontious]

I cannot see how a British passport took 5 months to renew.

[thonglorjimmy]

11 hours ago, pontious said:

I cannot see how a British passport took 5 months to renew.

 

Maybe not, but maybe the lads father had other things on his mind.

 

It would be interesting to see if the UK media showed an interest in running this sad story, can you imagine the storyline, Brit suffers life threatening injuries and is threatened with hefty fines by Thai Immigration because it's medically unsafe to leave the country.

 

I do wonder if they would publish the UK Embassies stock reply that "we are aware of this case and giving the family Consular support".

[wpcoe]

If the son cannot fly, how about overland travel?  Cars and trains, perhaps?  Orient Express runs from Istanbul to the UK, but not sure how to get to Istanbul from Thailand over land.

 

I assume air travel issues involve pressurisation/oxygen concentration.  Any chance they could find an air ambulance that would fly sub-10,000 feet?  Yeah, it would take a long time,  but balance the time/money with just being home in the UK.

 

Are there any cargo ships that would accept them as passengers?

 

Just tossing out some out-of-the-box ideas.

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, pontious said:

I cannot see how a British passport took 5 months to renew.

It is not a renewal, that requires copies of every page of the previous passport, a lot more questions to be addressed for a replacement. You are also making the assumption the application was made straight away.

I have never heard of anyone trying to get a replacement passport issued here so the time factor is a bit of an unknown but I would doubt any less than 3 months. You should also bear in mind it was over Christmas during a pandemic.

I renewed my passport in 2014 and after 10 weeks had to get the embassy to intervene, delays happen.

 

[jackdd]

15 hours ago, Tapster said:

@jackdd

 

If they leave, I don't think they'll worry about coming back. They have no ties here.

 

Immigration have left them in a weird situation and they need it sorted.

Is the son really not able to fly (I can't really imagine something which renders you unable to fly after having been treated for more than half a year), or did he get this letter from the doctor because his father has to take care of him (and the father stays in Thailand) and the doctor wanted to help him getting an extension?

[Gilltom]

16 hours ago, Ventenio said:

IF only this was in writing, which I must assume is not.

 

I'd be happy to stay another 40-years and pay the 20,000.  

 

anyhow, horrible story, my heart goes out to everyone involved.  

 

Understand we are simply TVF jokers....take all the "advice" as if it is just that.....

 

gofundme for sure.   second opinion on flying.  go to the embassy in person.  the squeaky wheel will get oil.....  but you gotta do the leg work and make those calls, emails, appearances..

 

best of luck 

My god poor bloke.

I DO NOT agree with visa  shops.in my eyes they arw illegal  but i m going to be a hypocrite now and say this poor sod might be better going down that route 

Good luck to him

[CH1961]

Long story short. 

 

Two brits in Thailand without valid visa. 

One old did not care about visa/extension. 

One young without any chance to get a valid visa. 

 

Solution is to contact embassy and go back to UK. 

[Thingamabob]

Many unexplained elements in this case, including the vital issue of why it took so long to obtain a new passport. How long does it normally take..?

[Nanaplaza666]

3 hours ago, wpcoe said:

If the son cannot fly, how about overland travel?  Cars and trains, perhaps?  Orient Express runs from Istanbul to the UK, but not sure how to get to Istanbul from Thailand over land.

 

I assume air travel issues involve pressurisation/oxygen concentration.  Any chance they could find an air ambulance that would fly sub-10,000 feet?  Yeah, it would take a long time,  but balance the time/money with just being home in the UK.

 

Are there any cargo ships that would accept them as passengers?

 

Just tossing out some out-of-the-box ideas.

I geuss you do the tossing with your wrong hand because i have the feeling you are holding a beer in the right one . 

[chilly07]

It is possible to get a temporary/emergency UK passport to travel on from the embassy. Leaving it for 6mths is irresponsible. If unable to visit the embassy an agent can probably do it for you.

[Skallywag]

20 hours ago, Tapster said:

For some reason the hospital lost the son's UK passport, in November 2020.

Very odd.  You hand over passport, they make a copy and hand it back. 

Good lesson for others as well,  never let passport out of your sight when allowing others to make a copy or photo of it
Difficult position they are in now it seems.

 

Wishing them luck. 

[poohy]

I would not sweat

 

Got a feeling the right agent will sort it out in about 10 minutes

[Denim]

21 hours ago, Tapster said:

I don't want to think badly of the UK embassy but what are they for, if not to help British citizens with problems in foreign countries.

 

This mystery has perplexed expats here for a long time. Appears to be just a ' job for the boys '; deal.

[treetops]

22 hours ago, Tapster said:

The son has a letter from his Thai neurosurgeon saying that he cannot fly.

 

Ask for a second opinion.  The first guy might have been enjoying the fees he was getting paid.

[KhaoYai]

On 5/14/2021 at 10:40 AM, Tapster said:

The UK embassy in BKK have not been told this story, since an earlier enquiry before things got to this stage, received a response explaining that the UK cannot get involved in Thai immigration matters.

Its matters like this that make you ask - what does the British Embassy actually do?

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

so much useless and dangerous advice here

uk embassy / consulate: not their concern, suspect any type of such intervention is worth jack and might even worsen things.....

“Imm. said this and that”: seriously .......? 

after 40 days max. legal overstay, assume by law you will normally be permanently deported .....this case has strong mitigation but no legal intervention for six mths..........

very complex Immigration Case, allowed to drift : Best Specialist LAWYER clearly required at once.......

 

 

[jackdd]

15 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

so much useless and dangerous advice here

uk embassy / consulate: not their concern, suspect any type of such intervention is worth jack and might even worsen things.....

“Imm. said this and that”: seriously .......? 

after 40 days max. legal overstay, assume by law you will normally be permanently deported .....this case has strong mitigation but no legal intervention for six mths..........

very complex Immigration Case, allowed to drift : Best Specialist LAWYER clearly required at once.......

 

 

Yes, so much useless advice.

Advising him to waste money for a lawyer is just another useless advice.

 

Some kind of "fixer" could maybe be able to arrange something with immigration, but after several months of overstay this is probably just not possible, and if possible, would cost quite a bit.

[impulse]

7 hours ago, Skallywag said:

Very odd.  You hand over passport, they make a copy and hand it back. 

Good lesson for others as well,  never let passport out of your sight when allowing others to make a copy or photo of it
Difficult position they are in now it seems.

 

Wishing them luck. 

 

What if the guy had a traumatic brain injury?  Like in the OP...  Wouldn't the hospital hold the passport until the guy wakes up?

 

And the British Embassy probably requires a police report to replace a missing passport. 

 

I can easily see where this could have dragged on for months and months, through no fault of their own- especially during Covid.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by impulse

[Tapster]

Trouble is, I don't think they have the resources for a specialist lawyer.

 

That, or a good 'fixer' would be the best option at this stage, I think.

 

I'll put it to them tomorrow.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

[kynikoi]

12 hours ago, wpcoe said:

If the son cannot fly, how about overland travel?  Cars and trains, perhaps? 

 

Lol

 

It's not possible for a myriad of reasons not even including his health.

 

War Borders Visas Transport

 

Probably take 18 months

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

 

Yes jackdd you prove my point......“get a Lawyer” is clearly not useless or bad advice in this case..... 

whereas your “get a fixer” proposal is obviously terrible advice ....... you really do seem to have nothing of value to offer here except perhaps a period of silence ?

 

very last thing they need is to be scammed by some chancer seizing on their vulnerable distress.......

 

This case will certainly require connections at the highest Imm. levels.....to have any chance  of success..... lots of dough unavoidably  & unfortunately required .....without success guarantee....

so will certainly need to start with a Specialist Imm. Agent / Lawyer......

 

I know personally of an equally serious Imm. case involving Expired / Non - Renewable Passport

(failed state). Embassy Case Letter was the best end result which combined with steep unwanted deportation costs to Imm. account, meant Imm. just looked away and are leaving the guy alone for now. That indeed might be the optimum outcome here perhaps ....... if only to get an Imm. Letter allowing subject to leave Thailand without any penalty ........ ?

 

 

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Yes jackdd you prove my point......“get a Lawyer” is clearly not useless or bad advice in this case..... 

Then enlighten me. What can a lawyer do in this situation, and on which law would that be based?

 

12 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

whereas your “get a fixer” proposal is obviously terrible advice ....... you really do seem to have nothing of value to offer here except perhaps a period of silence ?

It isn't my proposal, it's just a thought. If somehow possible (OP didn't answer my previous question, thus not sure if this is an option) my proposal is to leave Thailand, definitely the easiest solution, and OP did already state that they don't have any ties to Thailand.

Edited May 15, 2021 by jackdd

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

agree with you jackdd that subject may well have to leave thailand,,,,,,,,

but with I suggest an Imm. No Penalty Letter ( if possible) , not just show up at Border Post and get jailed and / or permanently deported..........

I,m clearly no thai lawyer so dont answer thai legal questions .......

rather naive to be calling for applicable laws considering where we are ......

the law may serve as the case vehicle but connections way more important than laws here I suspect...