Sinovac review by Thai superstar Chompoo Araya goes viral

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, peleid said:

Just registered for my first vaccination in Thailand, at the general hospital, Astra Zeneca

Registering and getting it are two different things. I hope you get it and soon.

AZ also has it's challenges, several countries have ban it, I am not sure how much of it is also political. But even if it become available soon, and is safe, unfortunately we cant register everyone in the country for it. 

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

Coronavac is very effective against serious illness and death which is the most important thing a vaccine can do. It's not so good at preventing transmission of the virus, though. 

As for the israeli studies, Israel has a population of slightly over 9 million people, so actually more people than NYC. Not that it's significant. But that is a huge number for a study. And the results for Pfizer are outstanding.

Covid-19: Pfizer BioNTech vaccine reduced cases by 94% in Israel, shows peer reviewed study

 

The Pfizer BioNTech coronavirus vaccine produces as good results in the “real world” as have been previously documented in randomised trials.

A case control study, which has been peer reviewed and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, compared 596 618 people who were newly vaccinated in Israel and matched them to unvaccinated controls.1 Two doses of the mRNA vaccine reduced symptomatic cases by 94%, hospitalisation by 87%, and severe covid-19 by 92%, according to the data from the Clalit Institute for Research which is Israel’s biggest healthcare provider.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n567

 

No doubt or argument  from me about any of these. Both me and the wife got the Pfizer vaccine while we were in the US, we are back in Thailand now. Having the choice Pfizer or Modern would be the superiors choice, But we don't. In the absence of superiors choices some times the adequate would do. IMO Sinovac is an adequate stop gap choice so we can get back on track. Sinovac might not prevent transmission.  I say might, because there is no conclusive evidence either way yet as far as I know. but it makes Covid 19 harmless for the most part, and what threat is there from a harmless virus?  Once we are on track and other options are available , there is  no reason that I know why we cant have the better vaccine after having the sinovac . Anyway that's my thinking. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by sirineou

[Nojohndoe]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

I'm sure you got to know her incredibly well during this alleged meeting.

 

I'm also sure she can be charming when needed, but she wasn't too good to partake in this odious PR stunt, supporting the Junta to encourage the serfs to take the worst vaccine available when these people deserve so much better. The same Junta that seized power illegally in 2014 and supports her Billionaire family with policies to wipe out their smaller business competition.

 

Still, if she looks good and speaks well, I guess that's what matters.

Perhaps what matters is that that even if the vaccine with lowest primary  efficacy is the only  one readily available it is at  least being  made available. What is therefore odious in an attempt  to encourage  "at least" minimal protection ?

If this "superstar" was instead pointlessly promoting  acceptance of an unavailable vaccine of your personal preference would it then  be less  "odious" ?

Maybe you would be supportive of some evangelical scrounger suggesting that salvation  from covid-19 can be more  readily achieved by sending cash to a tax haven account ?

 

 

[CharlieH]

Off topic / Unattributed claims and responses removed.

[DBath]

16 hours ago, smedly said:

In clinical and real world trials, China’s Sinovac underperforms | The Economist

My thoughts below primarily apply to the CCP, not to the Chinese people in general, who have always treated me fantastically, but of those two groups one is not like the other...

 

IMO the graph depicted via your link is a very good analogous depiction of China's poor quality standards - it shows them at the bottom of the pile - where I think they belong. Add to this several other factors involving questionable undertaking's by the Chinese government, current and recent:

• State run media and censorship
• Mis-reporting of covid stats (approx 91,000 cases and 46,36 deaths, so far - seriously???) 
• Their abhorrent treatment of Uyghurs
• Hong Kong, Taiwan
• South China Sea
• My own experiences living in China and working with people closely aligned with the CCP at a very high level.
• The FBI's huge archive of Chinese counterintelligence cases (https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/news: filter on China Threat)

I fully realize some of these do not directly apply to covid, but they have helped me form my opinion and trust level regarding China and her vaccine(s). I do find it amazing that anyone would trust these people with something as important as a vaccine - any vaccine - let alone trying to convince me and others why we should take it, regardless of what any clinical or real-world trial data says.

 

I don't consider myself to be an 'anti-vaxxer' per se, but I am anti-Chinese vaccine and for me the jury is still out on the others for various reasons and the only ones I would even consider taking at this point are Pfizer or Moderna. For those who choose to take the Sinovac or Sinopharm vaccines, good for you - it's your choice, just as much as it's my choice not to for the above-stated reasons.

[KhunMorris]

If you live in Thailand and don't know who Chompoo is then you are either stupid or eh, stupid. She's literally everywhere and has been for over a decade. 

 

Guys, get up from your barstool and take a look at the world outside.

 

Sincerely 

 

MORRIS

Ex Bar Owner, Speaks Thai, Muay Thai trained.

 

Edited to add that I wouldn't touch Sinovac if you paid me.

Edited May 19, 2021 by KhunMorris

[sirineou]

 Actually thinking about it so more, I think , in the absence of other . better vaccines such as Pfizer.

Sinovac might be the best vaccine. 

It renders Covid 19 harmless for most people but it allows transmission.

So follow my logic and find the fault in it.

-Everyone gets vaccinated with Sinovac. , and allowed to go on with their lives with no restrictions,

-Very few people get seriously sick, and the Thai health system handles  them easily. 

-eventually everyone gets infected, get's over  it  without getting seriously sick,, develops antibodies ,and we acquire herd immunity. 

The only fault I can find with such scenario , is the threat of resistant variants, mutating  from many infections 

Edited May 19, 2021 by sirineou

[RichardColeman]

20 hours ago, sirineou said:

Does taking the sinovac preclude you from taking the Pfizer later on

No, but i imagine if sinovac is precluded from some countries vaccine lists, they might insist on a third dose of a non sinovac vaccine to ensure you have had two acceptable doses.

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

The only place I ever see it is in the waiting area at the hospital.

As you search for the remote on the seat next to you, before realizing you are not at home!

[DBath]

10 hours ago, Nojohndoe said:

Perhaps what matters is that that even if the vaccine with lowest primary efficacy is the only  one readily available it is at  least being  made available. What is therefore odious in an attempt  to encourage  "at least" minimal protection ?

 

 

Without repeating what I've previously posted...what matters most to me - regarding any of the Chinese vaccines - are the HUGE trust issues I have with them, specifically the CCP. Regardless of whether or not these trust issues have anything to do with covid (some do, some don't) or whether or not clinical trials tell me otherwise. To me the lack of trust is enough reason to NEVER put a vaccine into my body that has been developed and/or produced by the Chinese.

 

Sinovac is at the bottom of the performance pile (https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/04/15/in-clinical-and-real-world-trials-chinas-sinovac-underperforms). Therefore why should I accept a hamburger when I ordered steak and that steak is available - even if I have to fly to another country to get it.  If you want to take Sinovac that's fine, go ahead and knock yourself out, but stop trying to "guilt-trip" me and others into taking it.

 

In the meantime, I'll continue to stay safe, wear a mask, wash my hands and keep my distance from all people, especially those like you - who I have no desire to be around anyway.

[DBath]

23 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Bottom line is at the moment is we all have a choice, well not really, it will be either Sinovac or AZ which will be given without out the person receiving it knowing when administered.

 

The question one has to ask is; would you go without a vaccination now in hope of making it down the line to get your chosen vaccination that you can pay for, which of course has a higher efficacy, remember, it takes 3-4 weeks for antibodies to be detected.

 

Me personally, still sitting on the fence, watching the circus, after all, Covid is not a death wish yet.

 

I will get vaxed, when is another story, could be as soon as available, could be down the line.

I'm on the fence as well, could be down the line, could be never.

[Mr Meeseeks]

15 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Why is she influential ? Who is she? Looks like they were lucky to find her skinny little arm to vaccinate.

She has just donated 1.2 million baht to state-run Ramathibodi Hospital to purchase respirators to treat COVID-19 patients.

 

It's in the other paper but felt it was necessary to mention it here.

[DBath]

On 5/19/2021 at 7:56 AM, clivebaxter said:

Strange, he was not too bothered about the side effects of shooting heroin into his arm over a number of years ????

A valid point sort of, I guess. Though, I'm not sure you built a very good case as to why people should take the worst performing vaccine out there. Yes, I realize it's one of two vaccines currently available here, but two that are among the worst performing.

[Aomelia]

8 hours ago, sirineou said:

 Actually thinking about it so more, I think , in the absence of other . better vaccines such as Pfizer.

Sinovac might be the best vaccine. 

It renders Covid 19 harmless for most people but it allows transmission.

So follow my logic and find the fault in it.

-Everyone gets vaccinated with Sinovac. , and allowed to go on with their lives with no restrictions,

-Very few people get seriously sick, and the Thai health system handles  them easily. 

-eventually everyone gets infected, get's over  it  without getting seriously sick,, develops antibodies ,and we acquire herd immunity. 

The only fault I can find with such scenario , is the threat of resistant variants, mutating  from many infections 

Try traveling on Sinovac ,Cannot

Edited May 20, 2021 by Aomelia

[club]

47 minutes ago, Aomelia said:

Try traveling on Sinovac ,Cannot

You can get the same result from the other weak vaccines. You have 50.4% of still getting Covid, Worse then any Vaccine. Maybe not landing you in a ICU but give you moderate to severe symptoms . I would rather not get Covid at all. That's why I will get Pfizer or Modera when I travel to USA in a few months. 95% protection rate

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Aomelia said:

Try traveling on Sinovac ,Cannot

That's true, but that's not what we are talking about in this Thread, Of course if you have other options they are as good or better than Sinovac  for many reasons, travel being one, but in the absence of other better options Sinovac is a good stop gap option. And as the post you responded to, it might help bring about herd immunity without casualties through the mechanism I described.  Unless you don't think it would in which case please explain why. By no means did I think what I said was right , it is simply a thought experiment open to objections. 

[Nojohndoe]

4 hours ago, DBath said:

Without repeating what I've previously posted...what matters most to me - regarding any of the Chinese vaccines - are the HUGE trust issues I have with them, specifically the CCP. Regardless of whether or not these trust issues have anything to do with covid (some do, some don't) or whether or not clinical trials tell me otherwise. To me the lack of trust is enough reason to NEVER put a vaccine into my body that has been developed and/or produced by the Chinese.

 

Sinovac is at the bottom of the performance pile (https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/04/15/in-clinical-and-real-world-trials-chinas-sinovac-underperforms). Therefore why should I accept a hamburger when I ordered steak and that steak is available - even if I have to fly to another country to get it.  If you want to take Sinovac that's fine, go ahead and knock yourself out, but stop trying to "guilt-trip" me and others into taking it.

 

In the meantime, I'll continue to stay safe, wear a mask, wash my hands and keep my distance from all people, especially those like you - who I have no desire to be around anyway.

What "guilt trip" ?

The problem is that people such as yourself who may have  a travel option that the majority in Thailand do not have but distorted and inaccurate information regurgitated  so easily put around is negatively impacting on those people. I am not attempting to defend or promote Sinovac  in recognition of the fact it is not the best but it is at  least better than nothing. You are welcome to hike of to wherever for your own satisfaction.

BTW I am equally grateful for not being in the vicinity of your perceived belligerence.

[salsajapan]

how much was she paid ?

 

[DBath]

2 hours ago, Nojohndoe said:

....I am not attempting to defend or promote Sinovac  in recognition of the fact it is not the best but it is at  least better than nothing....

Well, at least you're somewhat admitting that you're not promoting it, though I don't totally buy that. My position on it hasn't changed, I don't think it is "better than nothing", for the same reasons I stated earlier on this thread, which is based on several factors and without regard for any associated clinical trial and real world results. Again, that's just my opinion.

[retsdon]

I'm toying with the idea of getting one of those Pfizer t-shirts so I can swank it up in my quarantine room next month....

 

Do they even sell Sinovac shirts?

[DBath]

32 minutes ago, retsdon said:

I'm toying with the idea of getting one of those Pfizer t-shirts so I can swank it up in my quarantine room next month....

 

Do they even sell Sinovac shirts?

They do, but they're not very effective, because they're written in Chinese!! ????

[soidog52]

UAE has been using Sinopharm and had great success. Just approved by WHO. Seems to be working. Anything better than nothing. 

[Aomelia]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

That's true, but that's not what we are talking about in this Thread, Of course if you have other options they are as good or better than Sinovac  for many reasons, travel being one, but in the absence of other better options Sinovac is a good stop gap option. And as the post you responded to, it might help bring about herd immunity without casualties through the mechanism I described.  Unless you don't think it would in which case please explain why. By no means did I think what I said was right , it is simply a thought experiment open to objections. 

I don’t discuss anything Chinese , lol Bioweapon Creators should be Boycotted 

[overt2016]

8 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

She has just donated 1.2 million baht to state-run Ramathibodi Hospital to purchase respirators to treat COVID-19 patients.

 

It's in the other paper but felt it was necessary to mention it here.

She donated money to a state run hospital!!!!!!

Isn't it the governments job? So she is just big noting!!!

[JamieM]

They are getting desperate 

 

 

 

Translation: they are saying that all foreign countries are begging for sinovax ???? and it's the best etc etc I guess that's why they have blurred the words on scmp because it's hilarious.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by JamieM

[geronimo]

On 5/19/2021 at 9:47 AM, RobMuir said:

Pretty sure tvf member @geronimoknows her well.

He did

[Artisi]

On 5/19/2021 at 5:29 AM, JonnyF said:

Thailand should have ordered a whole host of brands months ago, like the UK did. But no, they wanted to feign support for their Sino masters and line pockets in the process.

 

It's bad enough having to take a rushed through vaccine at all, but being coerced to take the least effective one from the country that created this whole mess is a little rich.

 

The government is starting to panic that the serfs won't roll over and take whatever they are told to take. Because if they don't, things could unravel quite quickly. Millions of doses of Sinovac on the shelf and Thailand left behind as the world recovers. Not a good look. Hence rolling out the cute girl with the needle in her arm. I'm surprised they didnt have a row of suits pointing at her in the background.

The suits were wishing they could point something else, or at least day dreaming about it. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Artisi

[DrPhibes]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:52 AM, Aomelia said:

Try traveling on Sinovac ,Cannot

Even vaccinated with AZ, depending on where it was made, is tricky:

 

https://apnews.com/article/europe-business-lifestyle-health-travel-f678a53270470d9b35ce6259e48548bf

 

Rumors are the US is considering a vaccinated only entry and Sino-whatever is not hardly on anyone's approved vaccine list outside of Asia.  Trying to hold out for Pfizer but am signed up for an appt for AZ which I will take.

[geronimo]

On 5/19/2021 at 9:47 AM, RobMuir said:

Pretty sure tvf member @geronimoknows her well.

Yes I do