Returned to UK for vaccination. Information to assist others.

[jojothai]

I am British over 60 years old. I travelled back to UK just over a week ago to get vaccinated, among other things. 
The following summary related to Covid 19 may help others considering the same.

Landed Sunday 16th May in Manchester. KLM flight about 1/3 full BKK  to AMS then AMS to MAN was pretty full.

Cheap economy class ticket. Good price. Lufthansa is an alternative via Frankfurt to MAN.
At MAN No problems. Fast at border control, well organised. Nothing like the horror stories I have heard about Heathrow.

I had booked 2 day and 8 test as required. Also the 5 day test to release. For the 5 day test there are far too many places listed on the NHS website and its not easy to quickly figure out who does what, how and the cost. It took me 4 to 5 hours in Thailand ringing round to find something suitable. 
In UK i am not registered with GP. Been out of UK non resident too long .
I applied to get registered with GP so i can get vaccinated, but I only did so as I was near to travel. They say it can take 4 weeks.

Then the official line is that you can only book a vaccination if registered with a GP. You cannot use NHS app without a new NHS number. You get that from your GP.
When registered with GP, the NHS say it will take 4 weeks to get an appointment.
So that would be 8 weeks in total???  I asked what happened to all the foreign students, homeless and illegal immigrants??
They could not tell me. “You have to follow the rules”.
A repetitive smokescreen, across the web platforms and telephone calls I made.

Proceed to read below, but If you currently are no longer registered with a GP, I advise that you apply online as soon as you can if you are planning on returning.

It is supposed to be possible for all visitors to register with a GP. You will need the GP registration to get your vaccination records confirmed on the NHS app.

 

I passed day 2 PCR, then passed day 5 test, then I was out of Self Quarantine Saturday morning on 22 may.
I had been told by family and friends that people can go to a walk in pop-up site, but could not find any information on NHS or online, except for making bookings for which you must have a new 10 digit NHS number, etc …...
There was a pop-up vaccination centre on the Saturday not far away. One of my cousins informed me.
I got vaccinated there with Astra Zeneca no problem, even though i have no registered GP. The people at the walk in were very good and efficient, took all my details, did not take me long. They assured me that the vaccination record goes on the NHS website and my GP when registered will be able to access it.
So I was very lucky and got the vaccination as quickly as is possible, on the 6th day from landing in the uk.

 

Its only the first shot yet. I have to see when I can get the second if I can before returning to Thailand.
The time to second shot was 12 weeks and has been reduced to 8 weeks. I am hoping that I can get 6 weeks so I can return in Early July, but will have to see what happens in the next few weeks.
The other good thing in the UK is that they give you free test kits for covid self test. They are in a 7 day pack. They hand out some at the vaccination site and you can go to a pharmacy and ask for them (they are free). I am taking a reading every day at present. 
It was good to do the self test on day 7 and day 8 before I did my official second test at day 8. Both show no signs of Covid.

I took my official test on Day 8 straight after I had done the self test. Waiting for official result. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 

[AnnieSeek]

If ur not registered with a GP ... be wary how your going to show any proof for future travel in Thailand or around the world. 

 

The little card they give you will not be sufficient. 

 

 

[jojothai]

11 hours ago, AnnieSeek said:

If ur not registered with a GP ... be wary how your going to show any proof for future travel in Thailand or around the world. 

 

The little card they give you will not be sufficient. 

 

 

Yes, you are correct the card i got is not going to do much.

I understand to get adequate proof of vaccination, its necessary to get the registration in the NHS app.

For that people must have a GP registration to get a 10 digit NHS number.

I am hoping the GP that i applied will get me registered in the next week, however currently even a few weeks is not a problem now that i have thr first shot of vaccine.

At present i cannot get a second shot until 8 weeks at a walk in center.

The 8 weeks is from my first shot, so its good that i got it as quickly as i could.

Edited May 26, 2021 by jojothai
Added comment

[nickmondo]

sounds a complete mess to me.  rather you than me mate

you would have been better off staying here and waiting for the AZ jab here

when you come back here, its going to cost you a fortune in insurances etc

nightmare.

enjoy

[Tuvoc]

Thanks for that. I'm returning next month for a few months so will obviously get vaccinated while I'm there. my NHS number should still be valid and I should still be GP registered so I don't foresee any issues, fingers crossed.

[ronaldo0]

I went to uk last June and registered with a gp in the area I was staying , then left to come back here in February and was offered vaccine in uk last month ! I left one place that was a shambles only to return here thinking all was well then it went downhill rapidly ! ????

[Kinok Powell]

Arrived back in Manchester yesterday.Flights identical to yours.Thanks for the imfo.

Went to bed last night wearing a fleece and wooly hat.Fxxxxxx freezing.

[Marvo]

Anyone know if the Thai Mrs. will be able to get her 2nd jab (free/NHS) in the UK when we travel back later this year?
I'm registered with a GP, but of course, she isn't.

[samtam]

I no longer have a property in UK, but if I was going, I would rent a place and register with a GP in the neighbourhood, which I assume would be acceptable. I left UK 18 years ago, and used to be registered with a health clinic in the city in which I lived. I don't suppose they would still have records, or my NHS number. Ditto my partner, who is Japanese, and has a Japanese passport. We have a Civil Partnership, so don't know whether he would qualify to register with a GP and get vaxxed.

 

As nickmondo commented, it's not at all easy, and that includes returning to Thailand, with insurance and quarantine, which I think will be in place until October at least, and longer, if the situation has not improved here, both in numbers vaccinated and cases.

[tubber]

1 hour ago, samtam said:

I no longer have a property in UK, but if I was going, I would rent a place and register with a GP in the neighbourhood, which I assume would be acceptable. I left UK 18 years ago, and used to be registered with a health clinic in the city in which I lived. I don't suppose they would still have records, or my NHS number. Ditto my partner, who is Japanese, and has a Japanese passport. We have a Civil Partnership, so don't know whether he would qualify to register with a GP and get vaxxed.

 

As nickmondo commented, it's not at all easy, and that includes returning to Thailand, with insurance and quarantine, which I think will be in place until October at least, and longer, if the situation has not improved here, both in numbers vaccinated and cases.

I would give that Health Clinic a phone. I haven't been in the UK for 20 something years. I gave the last clinic I was registered with a phone yesterday. I was still registered.

[treetops]

3 hours ago, Marvo said:

Anyone know if the Thai Mrs. will be able to get her 2nd jab (free/NHS) in the UK when we travel back later this year?

 

Yes, she will.  The UK will vaccinate anyone there no matter their immigration status.

 

Hopefully this thread smooths the way for others but there's a helpline (119 I think) you can call once you're there that'll get you on the system even if not registered anywhere.  If she's had her first jab here in Thailand it might be another obstacle to overcome, but it should still be do-able.

[samtam]

1 hour ago, tubber said:

I would give that Health Clinic a phone. I haven't been in the UK for 20 something years. I gave the last clinic I was registered with a phone yesterday. I was still registered.

 

I rang them. I have to live in the area for 3 months to qualify for a jab. They suggested going privately. I also rang the private clinic I used, and they said only NHS will administer jabs. As we previously lived in Scotland, we have a Central Health Index (CHI) number instead of an NHS number,  so we'll have to re-register, if we choose to do in England. 

 

So, obtaining an address and registering with a GP in the locale of that address is feasible.

 

 

47 minutes ago, treetops said:

Yes, she will.  The UK will vaccinate anyone there no matter their immigration status.*

 

Hopefully this thread smooths the way for others but there's a helpline (119 I think) you can call once you're there that'll get you on the system even if not registered anywhere.  If she's had her first jab here in Thailand it might be another obstacle to overcome, but it should still be do-able.

 

*That's good to know.

 

Still lots of hoops, and lots of money for this enterprise. But we haven't been away since April 2019, and Thailand is effectively closed for the foreseeable, I suppose we should just close up the flat and take a long vacation. The maid who is paid in full, although presently not coming in at our request, can come in and water plants, and clean and generally keep an eye on the place. 

[jojothai]

1 hour ago, treetops said:

 

Yes, she will.  The UK will vaccinate anyone there no matter their immigration status.

 

Hopefully this thread smooths the way for others but there's a helpline (119 I think) you can call once you're there that'll get you on the system even if not registered anywhere.  If she's had her first jab here in Thailand it might be another obstacle to overcome, but it should still be do-able.

Yes, treetops is correct. You find out where there is a walk in center and anybody can get vaccinated.
You may have to Queue if there are also bookings at the walk in. Some, like the one i visited were all walk in.

Unfortunately, The health line will not get you on the system unless you have the new 10 digit NHS number.
I tried, its not possible. There are two lines to try 111 and 119.
The first priority for anybody is apply for registration at a GP.

I understand that all visitors can now apply for a GP registration. Its not just UK Citizens / residents.
 

For those who had the old NHS number and have been out of country very long,

I understand that the health records are wiped out.

However surely your identity with the old number cannot be not deleted.

When i gave my personal details to the people at the covid vaccination walk in, they found my last registered uk address.
If so, then I guess they must also have the record of my last GP. 
I put the old GP address on my application for registration with the new GP. I should find out soon if it is still on record when my application has been registered with the new GP and I can query with them.

[jojothai]

37 minutes ago, samtam said:

*That's good to know.

 

Still lots of hoops, and lots of money for this enterprise. But we haven't been away since April 2019, and Thailand is effectively closed for the foreseeable, I suppose we should just close up the flat and take a long vacation. The maid who is paid in full, although presently not coming in at our request, can come in and water plants, and clean and generally keep an eye on the place. 

See my last post.
You can get the first jab at any walk in center.

At the walk in center, they also offered me a booking for a second jab at the now required 8 weeks (reduced from 12).
However, i will wait and see in the next few weeks if I can get it earlier. 

[jojothai]

8 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

Thanks for that. I'm returning next month for a few months so will obviously get vaccinated while I'm there. my NHS number should still be valid and I should still be GP registered so I don't foresee any issues, fingers crossed.

At present I understand the jab can be booked for 4 weeks time. That's what the NHS help lines told me.
Then you will have another 8 weeks to the second jab. If that's the case you have to be here 12 weeks.
Be careful of the Tax residency rules for number of days in UK.
Any body going to UK who has a GP should request the booking as soon as possible from the date you will arrive, but it can only be after your quarantine has ended. You can be fined for breaking quarantine otherwise.
If you want to reduce the time in UK and can only get a 4 week appointment, then instead go to a walk in center to get the first jab as quickly as you can, as I have done.
If I get the second jab at 8 weeks and depart for Thailand a few days after then I will have been here just over 9 weeks.

[jojothai]

59 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

I rang them. I have to live in the area for 3 months to qualify for a jab. They suggested going privately.

You cannot get the jab privately in UK.
Just a reminder for you. Do not go for a vaccination at a walk in center until you finish quarantine.
It breaks the rules for quarantine.

[Eff1n2ret]

Re NHS number, it depends how long you have been out of the UK before they delete your record, but I don't know how long that is. I settled in Thailand 11 years ago, and on a visit about 6 years ago I copped a nasty bout of bronchial asthma, so went to the surgery where I was previously registered. It was a Saturday morning and the place was closed, so I went to the Hospital A&E. When I gave my name and dob to the receptionist she said, "Oh that's 00 XX Road, is it?" - my former address, so I was obviously still in the system then.

I recently searched for my NHS number on their app, but it came back as no record. I'm grateful to note from the OP that it is possible to apply via a GP for another one if I need it.

[superal]

2 hours ago, jojothai said:

Yes, treetops is correct. You find out where there is a walk in center and anybody can get vaccinated.
You may have to Queue if there are also bookings at the walk in. Some, like the one i visited were all walk in.

Unfortunately, The health line will not get you on the system unless you have the new 10 digit NHS number.
I tried, its not possible. There are two lines to try 111 and 119.
The first priority for anybody is apply for registration at a GP.

I understand that all visitors can now apply for a GP registration. Its not just UK Citizens / residents.
 

For those who had the old NHS number and have been out of country very long,

I understand that the health records are wiped out.

However surely your identity with the old number cannot be not deleted.

When i gave my personal details to the people at the covid vaccination walk in, they found my last registered uk address.
If so, then I guess they must also have the record of my last GP. 
I put the old GP address on my application for registration with the new GP. I should find out soon if it is still on record when my application has been registered with the new GP and I can query with them.

I believe that most UK surgeries have an online system called ECON whereby you can speak/consult  and ask questions to the doctors or admin staff , just Google the surgery name and the site will show the ECON and they reply within 48 hours , sometimes same day . The 8 week 2nd jab date is quite strict as I also tried to get sooner but was refused .     Also the 2dn jab does not give the full protection till 3 weeks post jab .

So JoJo I guess you booked a 1 way flight to the UK ?  Will you use the same company for the return ? I have looked at Thaiair and they are not cheap , around £700 1 way , so how much were KLM ? BTW when I arrived at Heathrow I was in the immigration hall for 3 hours and some folk were there for 7 hours .   All my luggage taken off the carousel and placed with others a few meters away and no security in attendance .

[samtam]

3 hours ago, jojothai said:

At present I understand the jab can be booked for 4 weeks time. That's what the NHS help lines told me.
Then you will have another 8 weeks to the second jab. If that's the case you have to be here 12 weeks.
Be careful of the Tax residency rules for number of days in UK.
Any body going to UK who has a GP should request the booking as soon as possible from the date you will arrive, but it can only be after your quarantine has ended. You can be fined for breaking quarantine otherwise.
If you want to reduce the time in UK and can only get a 4 week appointment, then instead go to a walk in center to get the first jab as quickly as you can, as I have done.
If I get the second jab at 8 weeks and depart for Thailand a few days after then I will have been here just over 9 weeks.

 

Yes, tax residency of course is an issue. But 9 weeks (63 days) is OK to remain within the rules of non-residency. I believe it is up to 182 days if one has 1 or no ties in UK, which applies to me...

 

https://proactpartnership.com/blog/how-many-days-can-uk-expats-spend-in-the-uk-and-retain-non-resident-status

[jojothai]

1 hour ago, superal said:

So JoJo I guess you booked a 1 way flight to the UK ?  Will you use the same company for the return ? I have looked at Thaiair and they are not cheap , around £700 1 way , so how much were KLM ? BTW when I arrived at Heathrow I was in the immigration hall for 3 hours and some folk were there for 7 hours .   All my luggage taken off the carousel and placed with others a few meters away and no security in attendance .

You are correct about the 3 weeks. That's what I understand.
When i get back to Thailand I will have 2 weeks quarantine.

I will fly a few days after the jab. Have to give a few days for the aching shoulder to clear. Then in Thailand I will only need a few more days after quarantine to stay out of circulation. 

I aim to bring a few packs of the Covid self test kits back so I can test myself regularly for the 3 weeks.

I booked a return ticket with KLM. At present booked to return early July.
The booking was about 600 GBP return economy. In my opinion that is cheaper than before Covid.

Seat bookings for 4 flights are another 80 to 100 GBP.
The ticket has flexibility. I can change my return subject to any fare difference. That's unlikely to be much. I do not anticipate that there will be crowded flights to Thailand for at least another few months, more likely at least until next year.

I have heard some very bad reports concerning Heathrow and was grateful I could go to Manchester.

 

[jojothai]

6 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I recently searched for my NHS number on their app, but it came back as no record. I'm grateful to note from the OP that it is possible to apply via a GP for another one if I need it.

I have now found that i can register on the NHS app. But I need to wait for my ID to be confirmed verified.

When I tried before, My details were not identified. I failed to register because it could not identify me.

However I was using the postcode registered on my UK driving license, and as provided when I got my last passport.

I thought all the systems were linked.
For registration on the NHS app you need ID verification  eg passport or driving license.
This time when I got a screen that asked for my postcode, I put in the postcode from my previous address in UK from 25 years ago, 

it found me and indicates that i have a 10 digit number (but is showing only the last 4 digits).
Its therefore possible that I still do have registration with my previous GP and a new code has been allocated.

I will call them to check.

However I am not yet fully registered on the app until ID verification. So, its still possible that my ID may get rejected in the NHS app because it does not have the same postcode they have.  I will find out in the next week.
 
 

[jojothai]

24 minutes ago, jojothai said:

However I am not yet fully registered on the app until ID verification. So, its still possible that my ID may get rejected in the NHS app because it does not have the same postcode they have.  I will find out in the next week.

Verification was quick.

I got a confirmation of my ID within a short time, and it has shown me my 10 digit NHS number.
Now I can try to access my records and give my number for the new GP application.

 

Following that ....

I just managed to access my records and the Covid vaccination last week is there on record.
By Co-incidence i have just got an email from the new GP saying that I can access my records.
I presume they have transferred my registration, but will confirm with them tomorrow.

It Looks like I have been successful !!

Edited May 27, 2021 by jojothai
add info

[jojothai]

For anybody looking at this page for information, go to the update I posted.
https://aseannow.com/topic/1222381-return-to-uk-for-vaccination-update/?tab=comments#comment-16627424

 

[Marvo]

On 5/27/2021 at 3:29 PM, treetops said:

 

Yes, she will.  The UK will vaccinate anyone there no matter their immigration status.

 

Hopefully this thread smooths the way for others but there's a helpline (119 I think) you can call once you're there that'll get you on the system even if not registered anywhere.  If she's had her first jab here in Thailand it might be another obstacle to overcome, but it should still be do-able.

Thanks Tree, I've since discovered that the UK is not (yet) recognising vaccines administered outside the UK/EU/US. But have also had it confirmed that UK is Vaxxing "all-comers" F.O.C. ????

[jojothai]

11 hours ago, Marvo said:

Thanks Tree, I've since discovered that the UK is not (yet) recognising vaccines administered outside the UK/EU/US. But have also had it confirmed that UK is Vaxxing "all-comers" F.O.C. ????

Yes, all will get vaccinated FOC.

First dose go to vaccine clinic / pop up as soon as you finish isolation. Then you can book and get second dose 8 weeks later.

[treetops]

18 hours ago, jojothai said:

First dose go to vaccine clinic / pop up as soon as you finish isolation. Then you can book and get second dose 8 weeks later.

This does not reflect my experience.

 

Went out on Day 2 of isolation as going out to get a prescribed medicine is allowed.  I forget the technical term but vaccination counts as a countrywide prescription.

 

Unable to book a second dose using the on-line system but instructed by the helpdesk just to attend a drop in centre again.

Edited August 10, 2021 by treetops

[jojothai]

9 hours ago, treetops said:

This does not reflect my experience.

 

Went out on Day 2 of isolation as going out to get a prescribed medicine is allowed.  I forget the technical term but vaccination counts as a countrywide prescription.

 

Unable to book a second dose using the on-line system but instructed by the helpdesk just to attend a drop in centre again.

Vaccination is not a prescription.

Where does it say that?

It is administered. There is no prescription used.

I was told very bluntly two times that if you are in isolation and you go to vaccination then you should not do so.  Liable to be fined.

Vaccination team not know your status unless you tell them.

Its up to you to know the rules.

When you record goes to the system. The date is recorded and will show that you broke the isolation regulations.

People can try to do whatever they want from isolation, but most will have no record.

Yes, you cannot book readily with the online system. It takes time and effort. From experienve you also need your NHS Number.

But you can normally book at the vaccination centre where you get the first jab. 

You should be able to go to any of the walk in vaccination centres for second dose provided it is 8 weeks since first jab.

 

[treetops]

7 hours ago, jojothai said:

Vaccination is not a prescription.

Where does it say that?

It is administered. There is no prescription used.

I was told very bluntly two times that if you are in isolation and you go to vaccination then you should not do so.  Liable to be fined.

A regular prescription is known as a Patient Specific Direction in medical parlance, and if someone like a child who is outwith the vaccination groups was going to be vaccinated they would need this to allow it.  The vaccine would be prescribed for that individual in this case,

 

For mass vacination, such as the UK is undergoing, the Chief Medical Officer has issued what is known as a Patient Group Direction which allows the process to go ahead without naming individuals.  It's not technically a prescription but an instruction, though to all intents and purposes is the same thing for a group of people.

 

If you ask a vaccinator to show you the 30 page internal guidance for vaccinating those who are self isolating, the first page says something along the lines of getting a vaccine is legally and medically the same as collecting GP prescription medicines and therefore permitted.

 

This guidance is only a few months old and before its issue there was a lot of disagreement about this point, so if you're information pre-dates this then it has now been clarified and what you were told is wrong.

 

My information comes from a vaccinator.

 

I had booked my trip to the UK to allow me to self isolate prior to getting the first jab before obtaining this information, so had time to do so if required.  I would not have changed my plan if I wasn't comfortable what I was doing was legal.

[jojothai]

12 hours ago, treetops said:

A regular prescription is known as a Patient Specific Direction in medical parlance, and if someone like a child who is outwith the vaccination groups was going to be vaccinated they would need this to allow it.  The vaccine would be prescribed for that individual in this case,

 

For mass vacination, such as the UK is undergoing, the Chief Medical Officer has issued what is known as a Patient Group Direction which allows the process to go ahead without naming individuals.  It's not technically a prescription but an instruction, though to all intents and purposes is the same thing for a group of people.

 

If you ask a vaccinator to show you the 30 page internal guidance for vaccinating those who are self isolating, the first page says something along the lines of getting a vaccine is legally and medically the same as collecting GP prescription medicines and therefore permitted.

 

This guidance is only a few months old and before its issue there was a lot of disagreement about this point, so if you're information pre-dates this then it has now been clarified and what you were told is wrong.

 

My information comes from a vaccinator.

 

I had booked my trip to the UK to allow me to self isolate prior to getting the first jab before obtaining this information, so had time to do so if required.  I would not have changed my plan if I wasn't comfortable what I was doing was legal.

You can say any interpretation you want.

I was told three times, once in person at a vaccination clinic opposite where i was staying.

They were appalled that i had even come out to ask.

Read the isolation rules and take your chances.

[jojothai]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:53 AM, treetops said:

This does not reflect my experience.

 

Went out on Day 2 of isolation as going out to get a prescribed medicine is allowed.  I forget the technical term but vaccination counts as a countrywide prescription.

 

Unable to book a second dose using the on-line system but instructed by the helpdesk just to attend a drop in centre again.

I had not taken note from the first post that you actually went out and broke the isolation rules.

If you check the government website and the rules there is nothing stated about "getting a prescription".
The wording is very specific
"Exceptional circumstances
You can leave your accommodation in certain exceptional circumstances. This includes needing to:

- get basic urgent necessities like food and medicines where you cannot arrange for these to be delivered
- travel to a COVID-19 testing site
- access critical public services including social services and services provided to victims (such as victims of crime)
- move to a different place for quarantine where you can no longer remain where you are"

 

So you can go out to get medicines.
However, you went out to get a vaccination. Not to get a medicine.
The vaccine itself can be classed as a medicine but that itself is arguable. You can search and readily see that.
Vaccination is the administration of the vaccine.
A way to broadly classify therapeutic interventions is through their timing in administration:

Vaccines are classically administered to prevent the appearance of a medical problem,

while drugs (medicines) are generally administered to treat a medical problem.

 

Its up to the individuals to adhere to isolation rules.  People take their chances.