Does COVID-19 origin really matter?

[HOAX]

17 hours ago, Heng said:

It'd be nice to know where it came from academically.   But otherwise this is just a 'slip and fall' type manoeuvre by folks who want to spin in politically.  

But lets be honest, it was the CCP who began spinning for its own political agenda. It wasn't before it became very clear that China lied and withheld data the world began taking an offensive approach. 1,5 years later China hasn't changed the slightest for the good, but rather gotten much worse, and clearly politicising the pandemic to the fullest themselves. 

[atpeace]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

They all know how it started, by whom and by what process... politically no ones going to point the finger.

The WHO investigation was just a white wash.

Good vid but came to the opposite conclusion.  Funny how two people can watch the same video and come to opposite conclusions.  IMO, the panel is not sure and leaned towards natural causes.  That is my opinion as well and we have a tendency to see what we want to be true.

[atpeace]

14 minutes ago, StrandedBusinessPerson said:

Does it matter who killed JFK? Id say in 100 years or so, people will know well enough if it started in Ft. Detrick MD or Wuhan or wherever. So JFK is dead (allegedly) and so are 3,727,657 other folks who caught covid, and I really really don't give a damn where it started, as long as it does not happen again. However, if patient zero is important to real scientists, help them figure that out. 

So it is important or isn't important to pursue its origins? You actually make strong explanation why it isn't and then state it is important in your last sentence.

[AndyFoxy]

40 minutes ago, phills2k1 said:

"People like Fauci"

 

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel the trump administration handled covid last year?

Poorly. How do you feel?

Edited June 5, 2021 by AndyFoxy

[placeholder]

15 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Yes and China should be fined trillions for completely messing up the world. Let’s not get all silly and say it doesn’t matter, esp if it turns out it was engineered. 

Take the case to Judge Judy. Because she'll have no less power to enforce a judgement than any other legal venue.

[hotchilli]

15 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Good vid but came to the opposite conclusion.  Funny how two people can watch the same video and come to opposite conclusions.  IMO, the panel is not sure and leaned towards natural causes.  That is my opinion as well and we have a tendency to see what we want to be true.

My opinion was the conclusion of the panel was to sit on the fence and be politically correct.

The Chinese guy on the video link.. well can you believe anything he said?

 

[atpeace]

7 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

My opinion was the conclusion of the panel was to sit on the fence and be politically correct.

The Chinese guy on the video link.. well can you believe anything he said?

 

Yep, would hate to be that Chinese dude.  His job sucks. 

 

How I saw it:

Far left guy - not sure but definitely thinks the lab should be investigated

Next guy - who knows? Visually he is communicating more than his actual words. I really think he is a drama queen

Host - non -committal

Next guy - Thinks there is a good possibility it came from the lab.  He made good points.

Next Lady - Not sue

Was there another person? - lol

[kynikoi]

10 hours ago, phills2k1 said:

You understand why something like freezing China out in trade will / could never happen, right?  This is all just talk for that hypothetical scenario where the ENTIRE world doesn't rely on China manufacturing, consumer goods, and exports right?

 

It is extremely complicated but it can be unwound nothing is impossible surely not divorcing oneself from a communist, authoritarian state.

[rickudon]

There is a lot of evidence that the Chinese government was less than honest about Covid-19, It was definitely circulating before January 2020 when it first made the news. 3 virology lab workers were hospitalised in November 2019, and the virus was already circulating in Italy in December 2019...

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-sewage-idUKKBN23Q1J9

 

Laboratory accidents happen. In the UK research into Smallpox was terminated after a lab worker died (fortunately didn't get any further). Chinese face saving very likely and probably the virology lab kept quiet about it, then the Wuhan local government, because no-one wanted to take responsibility. They just hoped it would fail to spread and die out. But it didn't. By then too late. Whether it was gain of function mutation or natural, many different Coronavirus samples were kept in the virology Lab (which was close to the wet market). Also some of the earliest identified cases had no connection to the wet market. Logic tells you the virology lab was an obvious suspect. Accident i am sure, The Chinese government's draconian response with the Wuhan total lockdown on the 23rd January suggests an element of panic when they realised what had happened. Such lockdowns didn't happen with SARS, more measured approach back then.

 

I am no conspiracy theorist but there was enough circumstantial evidence available a year ago to point a finger. Proof? No, neither does any proof exist that it started at the wet market. if the virus existed in an animal population, other outbreaks would have been more likely. None have been found - only cases of Human to animal transmission. 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Considering an American company was financing the Wuhan institute it's a can of worms both would like to keep buried.

 

Are you referring to this:

 

"Over the course of the two grants approved by the NIH for EcoHealth Alliance, the Wuhan Institute received about $600,000 from the NIH, according to Robert Kessler, a spokesperson for EcoHealth Alliance. The funding was a fee for the collection and analysis of viral samples."  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/04/fact-check-obama-administration-did-not-send-3-7-m-wuhan-lab/3061490001/

 

I can not find any other mention of US funding for the Wuhan Institute.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, phills2k1 said:

I'm going to go back to my post from the last page and ask a question,

 

In a literal and scientific sense, it matters determining how this started, be it through the wet market, an accidental / negligent release from a lab, or intentional release (as with many, my money is on option #2).  Obviously it's important to know what happened to prevent things in the future.

 

But in a practical sense, let's say there's definitive proof the Chinese government is responsible.  Taking geopolitics and the global economy into account, what do people here think can realistically happen to them as a response? 

Hypothetically, if there were definite proof the virus originated in a Chinese lab and was accidentally released, those with that proof could do one of two things:

 

Participate in the Chinese cover-up, and validate China's secrecy and disavowal of responsibility, or:

 

Release the proof and let the world know what China did, thus letting other countries decide how they will deal with China and perhaps shaming China into better behavior.

 

I prefer the latter option.

[digger70]

Does COVID-19 origin really matter? 

 

It doesn't matter ,It's Here There and everywhere now.

But someone Will try to Blame some country,That's OK but what in Satans Name can they Do about it ? 

Sue the countries?

They blame each other for Starting the Virus from a Lab or Bats or whatever,We may Never be 100% sure .

[chilly07]

11 hours ago, timendres said:

While the origin of the virus is important, I believe the CCP's initial handling of the outbreak in China is of far more importance. The clear evidence of cover ups at the beginning is a disturbing continuation of previous behavior. Worse, the intentional "exporting" of the virus is, in my opinion, criminal.

Yes the fact that Wufluland got on top of Wuflu so quickly that their infection and death rate are so low when compared to the West indicates that they were fully aware of what they were dealing with not that the CCP is  better at dealing with pandemics!

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Yes and China should be fined trillions for completely messing up the world. Let’s not get all silly and say it doesn’t matter, esp if it turns out it was engineered. 

Although it is obvious where the virus came from, the whole world messed up itself through the internet and social media, I still believe that if it was not for the previously mentioned, today we would be flying to other countries, most people would still have their livelihoods, all the tourist places the world over would be in operation.

Governments the world over should not have started closing everything down and letting this Chinese virus control everything, they should have been fighting against it, and not letting it beat us.

 

Going by the statistics, the vast majority of people who were of average health and not overweight or obese, within about a few weeks of the virus starting would have recovered and been able to carry on with their life as normal.

Although the virus is very real, the whole world over would be back to something like normal long before now if only they could have realised that the cure was far worse than the disease.

[phills2k1]

19 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

 

It is extremely complicated but it can be unwound nothing is impossible surely not divorcing oneself from a communist, authoritarian state.

The thing is, it's not a marital divorce, and what you're talking about would take decades to achieve

 

Do you think that countries can just snap their fingers and magically install the factories and necessary infrastructure (including transportation, ports and people) to replace the largest and most essential exporter in the world? 

 

Or find a consumer base to replace the 1.4 billion people in China?

 

Please explain how taking China out of the economy would work out positively

Edited June 5, 2021 by phills2k1
Typo correction

[heybruce]

22 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Does COVID-19 origin really matter? 

 

It doesn't matter ,It's Here There and everywhere now.

But someone Will try to Blame some country,That's OK but what in Satans Name can they Do about it ? 

Sue the countries?

They blame each other for Starting the Virus from a Lab or Bats or whatever,We may Never be 100% sure .

As has been explained repeatedly, understanding how past pandemics began is essential for preventing or preparing for future pandemics.

[Tropposurfer]

17 hours ago, AndyFoxy said:

Definitely. If the Chinese and US covered up the fact it was a lab leak and then millions died, it matters.

I do not assume you Andy ascribe to conspiracy theories and ' a secret and silent malevolence in the world hell bent of enslaving humanity and eating babies so as to find eternal youth.

"US covered it up" ? So far there appears zero evidence of anyone outside of China hiding zip, and little evidence at all apart from the Chinese desperately trying to hide their shock and extreme embarrassment at this virus. Which from world-scientific minds  has with all probability, spontaneously emanating out of China.

This spontaneous cross-species infection appears to be the current consensus of the scientific world at this time, but with a general consensus caveat that it could have been engineered and escaped but that this 'deliberate' scenario seems highly unlikely.

There were governments in 2020 (we know this definitely by examination of real-time factual timeline evidences), trying to avoid mass-panic by releasing information at a pace, and doing its best to gather back their balance in a rapidly changing and deteriorating world environment so as not to have the world rapidly across the globe descended into anarchy, and to play catch-up with the loud silence and information gaps both emanating out of China along with science in breaking down the DNA of this new bug and thereby understanding it.

Such catch-up scientifically is completely usual/normal and to be expected.

The problem we have seen emerging with more loudness is the non-fact, non-scientific, and active denialism of science by irrational, illogical, bizarre fantasy based child-thinkers that such normal progressions are somehow indicative of conspiracy and malevolence.

The tight lips of China can be easily and reasonably explained because one they are a Communist nation, two to ''save face' because they are Asians, and three are arguably very prideful about the rise of their nation and criticism of it by a Western press and governments that have shown (whether valid or not) at any opportunity leap in decrying China while ignoring hypocritically their own shortcomings and world damaging behaviours.

As part of the face-saving China automatically restrict embarrassing leaks to avoid any blowback in the international community. Add to that a totalitarian regime set amidst the way of the world is today i.e. leaks have happened, and their attempts to totally control the narrative have failed and give reason for conspiracy-needing folks to jump. The old spectre of 'the other' is pre-eminent here. Which psychologically is most convenient because while looking at the other we have no need to analyse ourselves. Some would say that Caucasian cultures are extremely good at this.

The censuring and removal of virologists and doctors from speaking out in China is in line with the face-saving totalitarian global-projection which China consistently engages in. Such behaviour does not automatically indicate a more complex, more nefarious intention ... other than the inherent one accepted as consistent of them. 

The circulation of conspiracy notions about this are highly-speculative at the very best, crazy at their worst. 

The hypothesis that a nation would release a high-morbidity virus amongst its own population willingly is a bizarre notion, and I would offer a bridge-too-far even for them. Selectively purging, reeducating and imprisoning people yes. The West of course is far more civilised. We simply set up our won 'enlightened' systems and racially crush select groups in order to further our Caucasian jingoism.

To offer up that the US would willingly engage in (2 presidents and administrations, Drs. like Fauci, numerous virology institutes across the globe, the AMA, The CDC, The WHO, The UN etc (no matter what might be said of the WHO's so-called sycophancy towards China - which itself is a contentious, highly dubious piece of [mis]information) would and have entered into a cover-up and allow a virus to enter its borders killing millions of people is also ludicrous and the stuff of idle, paranoid, Q ANON, Fox News anarchic Hollywood storyline thinking. 

Wet markets, for many, many decades, have been shown to be breeding grounds for cross-species virus transmissions this is not speculative but clear scientific traceable fact. Sars, H1N1 etc. have all found a virally ripe environment in these wet markets from east Africa to China.

The hypothesis that China did this and let it go by design to throw the world into chaos so they can profit in some way is also ridiculous fantasy as they have been smashed by the world economic downturn as all of us have. 

One important fact to remember in the impact of this virus on the planet is; The US had a few dozen specialist virologists in China (some in the Wuhan Lab itself) before this outbreak as part of the forward arm of a global virological prevention system (collaborated in globally with and via the US under Obama's inception and negotiations with China and many other nation-sites) and that this vital early warning system was dismantled by Trump in the first 2 weeks of taking office. 

There was and still is no reasonable, scientific, or other sound explanation for such a disassembling. This action by Trump was decried by pretty much the entire world scientific community and effectively blinded the world via on-site specialists to any influenza or other viruses emerging out of China or other places they are still encamped in across the globe.

The history or our awareness of viral illnesses from the superstitious dark ages to today's definitive modern medical science tells us that nature is always developing and adapting and so are viruses as they too are part of the natural world.  Assigning blame as other members have said seems to be a mute and worthless intent unless of course the intent is to propagate and promote a self-serving, jingoistic, and punitive-political agenda. The need to finds a perpetrator to lay blame on in order to deflect away from our vulnerability as living, finite, frail beings is for many a reflexive way of living and inherent. 

As many doctors, and science shows without equivocation; Viruses don't care about what nationality or demographic you hail from. It's sole intention and meaning of existence is to recreate itself. It has no consciousness, no morality, no good or bad, it simply works to survive and does so with extreme efficiency. Such reality (not a substitute-fake reality which suits or personal egotistical proclivities) is an inconvenience for those who work automatically to deny that we all live in inconvenient, impermanent existence.

It also seems difficult for some people to grasp the notion that labs experiment with viruses all the time (across the globe, and not automatically for nefarious reasons but to advance science, provide more bulwarks against disease, and improve the quality of life) in order to understand and invent preventions (yes some countries like Israel, the US, Russia, China, England etc experiment in creating biological weapons both viral and bacterial all the time and have for many many decades).

[digger70]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

As has been explained repeatedly, understanding how past pandemics began is essential for preventing or preparing for future pandemics.

Understanding What? Anyone can make a virus in a Lab . there are many virus about in the world .

They can't prevent them if someone Makes a virus for Destruction of a Nation.

Biological Warfare ,It's in the Making.

[AndyFoxy]

8 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

I do not assume you Andy ascribe to conspiracy theories and ' a secret and silent malevolence in the world hell bent of enslaving humanity and eating babies so as to find eternal youth.

"US covered it up" ? So far there appears zero evidence of anyone outside of China hiding zip, and little evidence at all apart from the Chinese desperately trying to hide their shock and extreme embarrassment at this virus. Which from world-scientific minds  has with all probability, spontaneously emanating out of China.

This spontaneous cross-species infection appears to be the current consensus of the scientific world at this time, but with a general consensus caveat that it could have been engineered and escaped but that this 'deliberate' scenario seems highly unlikely.

There were governments in 2020 (we know this definitely by examination of real-time factual timeline evidences), trying to avoid mass-panic by releasing information at a pace, and doing its best to gather back their balance in a rapidly changing and deteriorating world environment so as not to have the world rapidly across the globe descended into anarchy, and to play catch-up with the loud silence and information gaps both emanating out of China along with science in breaking down the DNA of this new bug and thereby understanding it.

Such catch-up scientifically is completely usual/normal and to be expected.

The problem we have seen emerging with more loudness is the non-fact, non-scientific, and active denialism of science by irrational, illogical, bizarre fantasy based child-thinkers that such normal progressions are somehow indicative of conspiracy and malevolence.

The tight lips of China can be easily and reasonably explained because one they are a Communist nation, two to ''save face' because they are Asians, and three are arguably very prideful about the rise of their nation and criticism of it by a Western press and governments that have shown (whether valid or not) at any opportunity leap in decrying China while ignoring hypocritically their own shortcomings and world damaging behaviours.

As part of the face-saving China automatically restrict embarrassing leaks to avoid any blowback in the international community. Add to that a totalitarian regime set amidst the way of the world is today i.e. leaks have happened, and their attempts to totally control the narrative have failed and give reason for conspiracy-needing folks to jump. The old spectre of 'the other' is pre-eminent here. Which psychologically is most convenient because while looking at the other we have no need to analyse ourselves. Some would say that Caucasian cultures are extremely good at this.

The censuring and removal of virologists and doctors from speaking out in China is in line with the face-saving totalitarian global-projection which China consistently engages in. Such behaviour does not automatically indicate a more complex, more nefarious intention ... other than the inherent one accepted as consistent of them. 

The circulation of conspiracy notions about this are highly-speculative at the very best, crazy at their worst. 

The hypothesis that a nation would release a high-morbidity virus amongst its own population willingly is a bizarre notion, and I would offer a bridge-too-far even for them. Selectively purging, reeducating and imprisoning people yes. The West of course is far more civilised. We simply set up our won 'enlightened' systems and racially crush select groups in order to further our Caucasian jingoism.

To offer up that the US would willingly engage in (2 presidents and administrations, Drs. like Fauci, numerous virology institutes across the globe, the AMA, The CDC, The WHO, The UN etc (no matter what might be said of the WHO's so-called sycophancy towards China - which itself is a contentious, highly dubious piece of [mis]information) would and have entered into a cover-up and allow a virus to enter its borders killing millions of people is also ludicrous and the stuff of idle, paranoid, Q ANON, Fox News anarchic Hollywood storyline thinking. 

Wet markets, for many, many decades, have been shown to be breeding grounds for cross-species virus transmissions this is not speculative but clear scientific traceable fact. Sars, H1N1 etc. have all found a virally ripe environment in these wet markets from east Africa to China.

The hypothesis that China did this and let it go by design to throw the world into chaos so they can profit in some way is also ridiculous fantasy as they have been smashed by the world economic downturn as all of us have. 

One important fact to remember in the impact of this virus on the planet is; The US had a few dozen specialist virologists in China (some in the Wuhan Lab itself) before this outbreak as part of the forward arm of a global virological prevention system (collaborated in globally with and via the US under Obama's inception and negotiations with China and many other nation-sites) and that this vital early warning system was dismantled by Trump in the first 2 weeks of taking office. 

There was and still is no reasonable, scientific, or other sound explanation for such a disassembling. This action by Trump was decried by pretty much the entire world scientific community and effectively blinded the world via on-site specialists to any influenza or other viruses emerging out of China or other places they are still encamped in across the globe.

The history or our awareness of viral illnesses from the superstitious dark ages to today's definitive modern medical science tells us that nature is always developing and adapting and so are viruses as they too are part of the natural world.  Assigning blame as other members have said seems to be a mute and worthless intent unless of course the intent is to propagate and promote a self-serving, jingoistic, and punitive-political agenda. The need to finds a perpetrator to lay blame on in order to deflect away from our vulnerability as living, finite, frail beings is for many a reflexive way of living and inherent. 

As many doctors, and science shows without equivocation; Viruses don't care about what nationality or demographic you hail from. It's sole intention and meaning of existence is to recreate itself. It has no consciousness, no morality, no good or bad, it simply works to survive and does so with extreme efficiency. Such reality (not a substitute-fake reality which suits or personal egotistical proclivities) is an inconvenience for those who work automatically to deny that we all live in inconvenient, impermanent existence.

It also seems difficult for some people to grasp the notion that labs experiment with viruses all the time (across the globe, and not automatically for nefarious reasons but to advance science, provide more bulwarks against disease, and improve the quality of life) in order to understand and invent preventions (yes some countries like Israel, the US, Russia, China, England etc experiment in creating biological weapons both viral and bacterial all the time and have for many many decades).

You should be an opinion piece writer for some newspaper or magazine. Looks like you have the talent to write. Well done.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

no reasonable doubt from all evidence that covid originated in China as has nearly every pandemic in human history including bubonic plague which killed one third of europe ........twice.

question is cultural cause (eating toxic wildlife) or political cause ( CCP designed bioweapon)

trump closed US borders to china flights ( unlike Italy) but covid had already entered the West via 70 million Chinese New Year Travellers deliberately let loose by CCP knowing the probable result..........

at which point it was down to the individual federal states and federal disease agencies to act internally in USA. noticeable that the draconian “democratic” states fared no better than the less restrictive republican states who at least tried to minimize the economic damage ( unlike “socialists”j.

[friendofthai]

56 minutes ago, rickudon said:

There is a lot of evidence that the Chinese government was less than honest about Covid-19

Honesty should be mutual here. I don't see the US willing to open its military bio labs for international observers.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

There is a lot of evidence that the Chinese government was less than honest about Covid-19, It was definitely circulating before January 2020 when it first made the news. 3 virology lab workers were hospitalised in November 2019, and the virus was already circulating in Italy in December 2019...

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-sewage-idUKKBN23Q1J9

 

Laboratory accidents happen. In the UK research into Smallpox was terminated after a lab worker died (fortunately didn't get any further). Chinese face saving very likely and probably the virology lab kept quiet about it, then the Wuhan local government, because no-one wanted to take responsibility. They just hoped it would fail to spread and die out. But it didn't. By then too late. Whether it was gain of function mutation or natural, many different Coronavirus samples were kept in the virology Lab (which was close to the wet market). Also some of the earliest identified cases had no connection to the wet market. Logic tells you the virology lab was an obvious suspect. Accident i am sure, The Chinese government's draconian response with the Wuhan total lockdown on the 23rd January suggests an element of panic when they realised what had happened. Such lockdowns didn't happen with SARS, more measured approach back then.

 

I am no conspiracy theorist but there was enough circumstantial evidence available a year ago to point a finger. Proof? No, neither does any proof exist that it started at the wet market. if the virus existed in an animal population, other outbreaks would have been more likely. None have been found - only cases of Human to animal transmission. 

Maybe should ask donald rump, he's an expert on this subject.

 

His verdict is that it doesn't exist, it's all fake. And he also claims that the vaccine is his work. 

 

Then he got the virus (as did his wife) but 2 days later he's all recovered. And his wife recovered quickly by healthy eating.

 

Would donald even know what a wet market looks like? 

Edited June 5, 2021 by scorecard

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

My opinion was the conclusion of the panel was to sit on the fence and be politically correct.

The Chinese guy on the video link.. well can you believe anything he said?

 

Original 3 Chinese miners from the cave who were shoveling bat poo was confirmed to be a new type of corona virus then labelled RATG13. But this was said to be not human transmissible and they got it from the effects from shoveling of the bat poo. So start to the corona virus road to CV-19 is suggested to come from this and this miners accident was in the year 2012. Long time to be looking at this virus and plenty of time to tweak it have the new receptors allowing a human to human vehicle for transmission.

 

Is Genetic engineering is performed there at the Wuhan institute? - Yes. Is Gain of Function Engineering that basically speeds up hundreds to thousands of years of evolution is performed there at the Wuhan Institute- Yes. Now the question is while the normal science research was being performed, was there at the same time Sinister Research for biological warfare research being performed for the CCP military program? And did it get out by mistake or did it get released? 

 

For me it is important to find out the real truth and the why, and if questionable research for a biological weapon was the reason along with dual purpose of innocent research for future preventions of viruses. 

 

And no, that Chinese professor on the video link I would not believe anything he said as it sounded like an all pro China stance as a refutal of all intelligent based information and refusal of  blame. But the real truth needs to come out whether they are guilty as sin or it was innocent in research. Not a good track record for the ole CCP this day and age.

Edited June 5, 2021 by holy cow cm

[heybruce]

43 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Understanding What? Anyone can make a virus in a Lab . there are many virus about in the world .

They can't prevent them if someone Makes a virus for Destruction of a Nation.

Biological Warfare ,It's in the Making.

Apparently you need it spelled out for you:

 

If the pandemic occurred because the virus crossed species and ended up in humans, increasing safety standards in laboratories will not prevent future pandemics from beginning in the same manner.

 

If the pandemic occurred because of lax safety standards in a virus research laboratory, increasing hygiene standards in wet markets will not prevent future pandemics from beginning in the same manner.

 

That's why the origins of the pandemic matters.

 

BTW:  How do you "make a virus in a lab"?

[Genmai]

Quote

Does COVID-19 origin really matter?

-By Tulsathit Taptim

 

Well done Mr Taptim, spoken like a true member of the 50 Cent Party.

 

 

[placnx]

20 hours ago, internationalism said:

untill now scientists still investigate, from where spanish flu, the previous large pandemic, have originated 100 years ago.

still only wild estimation of 17 to over 100mln deaths.

 

 

 

If we didn't have the science, Covid could well produce more fatalities than the "Spanish" Flu, and Covid isn't over yet.

[placnx]

20 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

“knowledge” is factual,as distinct from “opinion”, so not in itself political

(but can be spun for political purpose)

no moral equivalence between a free democratic USA & a brutal communistic tyrannical China

covid source of course matters ........ strange article ........author appears a China apologist

only one superpower and it aint China......

UK Intelligence report today considers the covid bioweapon case as “ feasible”

why would anyone NOT want to know if covid was a bioweapon or natural species jump ?

although quite what is “natural” about superstitious mass consumption of toxic wildlife escapes me......

 

 

 

 

You omit the possibility that it was a leak of a sample from "gain-of-function" research by someone accidentally infected. The intelligence agencies have no doubt been contemplating the bioweapon question for the last year, but are reticent (until now?) to talk about it. 

[placnx]

18 hours ago, overherebc said:

 

Is that worth debating at this time or should we wait a bit longer?

Might have to wait until Xi is ousted.

[placnx]

17 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

And to be fair let's sue the ass off of Donald Trump for being utterly and disgracefully derelict, possibly perpetrating a crime against humanity for lack of attention to the virus, without doubt being a large factor in the death of some 600,000+ American citizens.

Unfortunately he can't be sued for acts in performance of his office.

[placnx]

13 hours ago, kynikoi said:

 

Tarrifs on goods

 

Close trade

Big Covid entry charge for Chinese arriving anywhere outside.