Two doses of Sinovac can stop spread of COVID-19 – National Vaccine Institute

[DBath]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You expressed a really silly opinion.....and now wish to blame it on me..

Nothing silly about it - just your opinion. Unlike you, I couldn't care less if you decide to get poked with an inferior vaccine. I'll wait for something better or maybe even nothing. I've no problem abstaining any more than I have a problem with those who decide to get jabbed. I DO have a problem with people like you who want to force their opinion(s) on me or on others.

[DBath]

7 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Do I get the feeling that some expect vaccine to be 100% effective. No vaccine since Edward Jenner innoculated a 13 year old boy for smallbox in 1798 is 100% effectiveness. Even a 50% effectiveness will mean that you got 50% less chance of infection, serious illness or deaths. Isn't that worthy percentage to get your shot or is racial profiling gets in your way of a sensible decision. 

Thank you for the history lesson, but let me remind you this isn't 1798 nor should people's expectations be aligned with technology or a vaccine that was developed that far back - let alone developed in a country with sub-standard capabilities - such as China. Where the virus originated in the first place.

[DBath]

There's nothing funny about covid, but I find it almost comical when people say things like, "I will take the Sinovac, then will take something else later when it's available...". It's as if people are willing to put anything into their bodies, as long as the WHO or CDC and others say it's a good idea. Especially with all the misinformation and varying test results country to country.

 

I understand someone who is in a high-risk group, wanting to queue-up for a jab, being desperate enough to accept whatever is available as long as it can prevent death and I don't have any problem with that mindset. What bothers me are those who try to convince me and/or others they should accept something that is not "fully baked", especially when I'm not in a high-risk group and it's put forth by some corrupt government that only wants to offer one or two alternatives of a vaccine and has proven themselves incapable of rolling out a solution.

[Xbeemer]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:54 PM, HaoleBoy said:

A recent study done in Hong Kong doesn't really advocate Sinovac ...  Especially when the Delta variant Covid-19 virus is present.

https://www.thaienquirer.com/28831/delta-variants-danger-and-new-studies-raises-questions-about-thai-vaccine-program/

 

But the application of the Sinovac vaccine is problematic. Emerging data shows that the current vaccines, especially the ones with lower efficacy rates like the Sinovac, are not effective in stopping the transmission of the Delta variant.

 

Even a leading Thai Dr. proposed farangs entering the Phuket sandbox with Sinovac vaccination should not be let into the sandbox.  (Yet, a large number of people in Phuket were vaccinated with Sinovac by Thai Gov.)

 

Yes. Indonesia has learned the hard way that Sinovac is ineffective against the Delta variant. They inoculated a group of frontline medical staff in a hospital and they all contracted the Delta variant after. Given that ir is the emerging variant in Bangkok and will  likely become dominant in the entire country before long, it seems unwise to continue to use it. I was willing to take it before, but not now.

[Selatan]

4 minutes ago, Xbeemer said:

Yes. Indonesia has learned the hard way that Sinovac is ineffective against the Delta variant. They inoculated a group of frontline medical staff in a hospital and they all contracted the Delta variant after. Given that ir is the emerging variant in Bangkok and will  likely become dominant in the entire country before long, it seems unwise to continue to use it. I was willing to take it before, but not now.

The Kudus medical frontliners were mostly asymptomatic and have gone back to work already.

Sinovac Vaccine Protects Health Workers From Severe Covid-19 in Delta-Hit Kudus
 

Quote

Jakarta. Most of the 308 health workers vaccinated with Sinovac's Coronavac vaccine in Kudus, Central Java, a district recently hit hard by the novel coronavirus Delta variant, recovered from the disease last week, an encouraging indication of how the Chinese-made vaccine fare against the more infectious variant. 
 

Badai Ismoyo, the Kudus district health department head, said administering the Covid-19 vaccine to health workers in the local area has proven effective in protecting them from the worst conditions.

"Today, 90 percent of health workers who are self-isolating can return to work and return to serving the community," Badai said in a statement on Friday. 
 

"This is encouraging news. In addition, it also shows that the vaccine given to them is really effective in protecting against the worst conditions," he said. 

 

[NNNN]

All liers will burn in hell

[Bkk Brian]

Italy’s Draghi dismisses China’s Covid vaccine, casts doubt on Sputnik

 

Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi said China’s anti-COVID vaccine did not fully work and questioned whether Russia’s Sputnik jab would ever get approval from European regulators.

“The Chinese vaccine ... has shown itself not to be adequate. You can see that from Chile’s experience of tackling the epidemic,” Draghi told reporters at the end of a European Union summit.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/italys-draghi-dismisses-chinas-covid-vaccine-casts-doubt-on-sputnik.html

[Selatan]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Italy’s Draghi dismisses China’s Covid vaccine, casts doubt on Sputnik

 

Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi said China’s anti-COVID vaccine did not fully work and questioned whether Russia’s Sputnik jab would ever get approval from European regulators.

“The Chinese vaccine ... has shown itself not to be adequate. You can see that from Chile’s experience of tackling the epidemic,” Draghi told reporters at the end of a European Union summit.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/italys-draghi-dismisses-chinas-covid-vaccine-casts-doubt-on-sputnik.html

The Italian PM didn't know what was happening in a nearby country when he chose to look at a faraway country?

Hundreds have died in Hungary after receiving the coronavirus vaccine

 

Hungary is probably the only country which have used American, European, Russian and Chinese vaccines. Guess which vaccines performed the best? The Russians and the Chinese. Who were the lousiest? The Americans.

One major lesson to learn from Hungary is, not a single vaccine at the moment is capable of fully protecting against Covid-19.

[kiwikeith]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:54 PM, HaoleBoy said:

A recent study done in Hong Kong doesn't really advocate Sinovac ...  Especially when the Delta variant Covid-19 virus is present.

https://www.thaienquirer.com/28831/delta-variants-danger-and-new-studies-raises-questions-about-thai-vaccine-program/

 

But the application of the Sinovac vaccine is problematic. Emerging data shows that the current vaccines, especially the ones with lower efficacy rates like the Sinovac, are not effective in stopping the transmission of the Delta variant.

 

Even a leading Thai Dr. proposed farangs entering the Phuket sandbox with Sinovac vaccination should not be let into the sandbox.  (Yet, a large number of people in Phuket were vaccinated with Sinovac by Thai Gov.)

 

That is what I heard, you can still catch Delta and spread it if you're vaccinated, was on ABC Australia as one person that came in to Australia tested positive to Delta but had already been vaccinated, but I can't remember which vaccine they received. 

Australia is very worried about the spread of Delta at present due to the virus slipping in on a flight and escaping quarantine. 

Thailand recently reported 600 odd cases of Delta. 

[asiacurious]

8 hours ago, Selatan said:

The Kudus medical frontliners were mostly asymptomatic and have gone back to work already.

Sinovac Vaccine Protects Health Workers From Severe Covid-19 in Delta-Hit Kudus
 

 

 

The Good

This is good to hear.  The GOOD thing about the Sinovac vaccine is that it DOES seem to have very high efficacy against very serious illness or death.  And I would take it if it's the only option on the horizon (2-3 months) when my turn comes to get vaccinated.

 

The Bad

The BIG issue for me with the Sinovac vaccine (and others like Sinopharm that are based on inactive viruses) is that authorities either don't know (possible) or deliberately hide the fact (more likely) that these kinds of vaccines do NOT seem to prevent people from spreading the virus to unvaccinated people.

 

The Absurdity

If 70% of people are vaccinated with Sinovac, then 70% of people are mostly safe from serious illness or death. That's important and good as it keeps hospitals functioning with open beds available medical personnel.  But it DOES NOTHING for the 30% who are not vaccinated.  Unvaccinated people simply can  NOT be protected by a herd that can catch and transmit the virus to them.  Herd immunity, given the way Thailand has been proceeding with vaccinations, is an absurd idea. 

 

 

[asiacurious]

8 hours ago, NNNN said:

All liers will burn in hell

 

So what should one do?  Sleep standing up?!

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, DBath said:

Nothing silly about it - just your opinion. Unlike you, I couldn't care less if you decide to get poked with an inferior vaccine. I'll wait for something better or maybe even nothing. I've no problem abstaining any more than I have a problem with those who decide to get jabbed. I DO have a problem with people like you who want to force their opinion(s) on me or on others.

And I have little time for people with silly hyperbole,  just trying to be a big I AM....

Bye...

Edited June 25, 2021 by jacko45k

[Henryford]

23 hours ago, irishman25 said:

it is called DELTA and look at what it is doing to UK

 

Doing what? a lot of cases but few hospitalisations and almost no deaths.

[jacko45k]

53 minutes ago, Henryford said:

 

Doing what? a lot of cases but few hospitalisations and almost no deaths.

Delta currently showing a death rate of 0.3% which is low.... but yes the link to deaths is broken, hospitalizations are rising but far below the infection rate. 

[dsj]

I was talking to a friend last night, and he mentioned that Sinovac is made is Hong Kong, but the company's majority owner is CP and Group, and we know who produces Astra Zeneca. That's why they didn't get any other vaccine. It's all about the money.

[goldenbrwn1]

On 6/25/2021 at 1:35 AM, irishman25 said:

it is called DELTA and look at what it is doing to UK

What’s it doing to the UK? They are 90% open and will be fully open in a month albeit a month later than planned. My friend just came back from France and other parts of Europe ( he’s German) said the UK is doing far better in real terms on the street with what you can or cannot do.  As long as the NHS can cope we should stay open . I’m sure the AZ, Pfizer and moderna jabs give some sort of protection from severe illness from the Indian variant . Can we still call it that ? ???? 

[goldenbrwn1]

4 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

That is what I heard, you can still catch Delta and spread it if you're vaccinated, was on ABC Australia as one person that came in to Australia tested positive to Delta but had already been vaccinated, but I can't remember which vaccine they received. 

Australia is very worried about the spread of Delta at present due to the virus slipping in on a flight and escaping quarantine. 

Thailand recently reported 600 odd cases of Delta. 

Someone quote me if I’m wrong but I’m sure you can still get any C19 variant whether fully vaccinated or not, no matter what type you receive and the vaccine is to lessen the chance of severe illness ?

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, dsj said:

I was talking to a friend last night, and he mentioned that Sinovac is made is Hong Kong, but the company's majority owner is CP and Group, and we know who produces Astra Zeneca. That's why they didn't get any other vaccine. It's all about the money.

Sinovac is not made in Hong Kong but in China. The investment by CP Group was through its subsidiary in Hong Kong. The investment was for 15% or USD515 million; not majority. 

 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Someone quote me if I’m wrong but I’m sure you can still get any C19 variant whether fully vaccinated or not, no matter what type you receive and the vaccine is to lessen the chance of severe illness ?

Correct but just add “lessen the chance of deaths by C19”. 

[Enzian]

Related to this topic, is there any way to know, or do we know, where was made the AZ vaccine some of us have been receiving recently? In-country or out? Mine was at MedPark on June 22.

[asiacurious]

Uh oh.....

 

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

 

Delta Variant Outbreak in Israel Infects Some Vaccinated Adults
Government reimposes indoor mask requirement in light of preliminary findings

 

Quote

TEL AVIV—About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.  (emphasis added)

 

[SNIP]

 

Quote

Israeli health officials are optimistic that even if the variant does spread, evidence from countries such as the U.K. indicate the vaccine will prevent a large increase in severe illness and hospitalizations that plagued the country’s health system in previous outbreaks. Israel has only recorded five severe cases in the past 10 days, Prof. Balicer said, but whether more will emerge is too early to tell.  (emphasis added)

[Selatan]

10 hours ago, asiacurious said:

 

The Good

This is good to hear.  The GOOD thing about the Sinovac vaccine is that it DOES seem to have very high efficacy against very serious illness or death.  And I would take it if it's the only option on the horizon (2-3 months) when my turn comes to get vaccinated.

 

The Bad

The BIG issue for me with the Sinovac vaccine (and others like Sinopharm that are based on inactive viruses) is that authorities either don't know (possible) or deliberately hide the fact (more likely) that these kinds of vaccines do NOT seem to prevent people from spreading the virus to unvaccinated people.

 

The Absurdity

If 70% of people are vaccinated with Sinovac, then 70% of people are mostly safe from serious illness or death. That's important and good as it keeps hospitals functioning with open beds available medical personnel.  But it DOES NOTHING for the 30% who are not vaccinated.  Unvaccinated people simply can  NOT be protected by a herd that can catch and transmit the virus to them.  Herd immunity, given the way Thailand has been proceeding with vaccinations, is an absurd idea. 

 

 

I think there is little evidence that any vaccine can fully prevent infection or transmission.

Some index cases from Malaysia and Singapore involved those that were fully vaccinated with mRNA vaccines, so depending on vaccinations alone to stop transmissions may not be wise.

Israel, which has mostly vaccinated its people with Pfizer's vaccine, has recently re-imposed mask wearing, which simply means that the mRNA vaccine couldn't prevent transmission.

 

Israel reimposes indoor mask requirement as daily cases top 200

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, asiacurious said:

Uh oh.....

 

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

 

Delta Variant Outbreak in Israel Infects Some Vaccinated Adults
Government reimposes indoor mask requirement in light of preliminary findings

 

 

[SNIP]

 

Read the text of the link and it does not seem so dire.....

 Children under 16, most of whom haven’t been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.

 

The number of cases in Israel is relatively low by global standards. But new cases of Covid-19 rose to over 200 on Thursday from around 10 a day for most of June.

Israel is now reassessing its Covid-19 regulations after moving to open up its society and economy following multiple lockdowns last year.

[BernieOnTour]

On 6/24/2021 at 12:54 PM, HaoleBoy said:

A recent study done in Hong Kong doesn't really advocate Sinovac ...  Especially when the Delta variant Covid-19 virus is present.

https://www.thaienquirer.com/28831/delta-variants-danger-and-new-studies-raises-questions-about-thai-vaccine-program/

 

But the application of the Sinovac vaccine is problematic. Emerging data shows that the current vaccines, especially the ones with lower efficacy rates like the Sinovac, are not effective in stopping the transmission of the Delta variant.

 

Even a leading Thai Dr. proposed farangs entering the Phuket sandbox with Sinovac vaccination should not be let into the sandbox.  (Yet, a large number of people in Phuket were vaccinated with Sinovac by Thai Gov.)

 

 

I would recommend everyone, to make some proof reading first, before just accepting such individual opinions as truth ...

 

Let’s start with the PBS article:

”Two Doses of Sinovac can stop spread of Covid-19”

- all Phase3-studies -AZ, Pfizer, Moderna ... and Sinovac - had as main endpoint: to stop severe Covid symptoms

- that is totally different to: “stop the spread” = sterile immunity 

- in the two countries with highest global vaccination rates -Israel and Seychelles- already more than 50% of the cases are from those vaccinated before

- how difficult it is to stop the spread of virus infections, we can learn from the former Influenza vaccinations, even in countries which high vaccination rates

 

And: even “a leading doctor ... proposed”?

Wo defines, who is leading? Who is checking, what are their motives? What studies did they provide to support their hypothesis ?

Every country has nowadays such narcissistic, TV-camera loving doctors telling us about the doom-and-gloom ... 

 

The referenced Hongkong study - which, btw. refers to antibodies, not sterile immunity/spread - is a good example:

This doctors study is based on 1000 cases, therefore he is immediately referring to the far higher numbers of the Phase3 studies.

And: why is SMCP stating: “The details of the findings would be published first in academic journals, Cowling said.”

... really? if so important, why not even a pre-print in a science magazine?

 

 

 

[BernieOnTour]

Before totally discarding the SinoVac, I would also take this into consideration:

 

The development of science and its transfer into technology and production has never been one big bump, it is an iterative process.

Look at the Otto-motor, electric cars, computers, ... eg. compare the Apollo moon landing computers with your cellphone today.

 

The technology behind the SinoVac is an immunization technology, applied and improved since more than 100 years: incapacitating an antigen.

- Compared to that, RNA-based vaccination is still in its early infancy.

 

And there’s another important point:

 

The RNA based vaccines use only one part of the SARS-Cov2 virus, the Spike protein, to get an immune response.

 

Whereas the SinoVac is based on the whole virus, therefore training  your immune system with far more indicators and access points to identify an infection.

 

A Danish study of recovered Covid patients recently identified more than 1400 different indicators ...

 

The Delta variant is only one tiny branch of the SARS-Cov2 genome tree, just check https://www.gisaid.org .

eg. The original Wuhan “variant” was already irrelevant, when Covid developed in Europe.

 

Luckily the mutations make up only ~ 1.5% of the virus genome, therefore the immune system’s detection can still work on the other 98.5%.

 

And - luckily for the RNA based vaccines ! - the Spike proteins are (currently) not prone to mutating decisively.

... if they would do: “Back to Old Kent Road” for the RNA vaccines ...