Your landlord is showing his greed, and stupidity given the times. I would just move, take the inconvienence today and save all the future trouble, out as even if you come to an agreeable amount today, in a few months he will probably try his chances again, mummy's boy probably accumulate debt somehow and needs an exit..  - gambling, leverage property, who knows..

 

don't try to justify with compounding inflation or rent indexes, as obviously you are dealing with brainless one

If you are paying 20% less than the neighbours then its probably a  fair increase to come in line with others.

 

If not , move. They will come down if you're leaving as they will have no income and with the rental market in the toilet they will fear no money.

 

We live in one of the Choc Chais, our rent is 9000 for a 2 bed house. Not gone up for 2 years. If it did then I have already seen houses on the same estate for the same or less than what the increase would be so no problem to move if pushed

if he wants a rent increase in this economy think what he will ask when the economy picks up and there are  increased numbers of those looking to rent

15 hours ago, falangUK said:

also we have invested in improving the bathroom, roof, etc

why

15 hours ago, johng said:

scallywag

word of the day

15 hours ago, falangUK said:

The best option will be to move, but with the amount of furniture and other things that have accumulated over the years, it's a herculean task.

By the sound of it, you may well have been there a number of years........Could it be that you are now paying under what is deemed to be the market rate? Or could it be that he just wants you out for whatever reason..........................

22 minutes ago, bojo said:

By the sound of it, you may well have been there a number of years........Could it be that you are now paying under what is deemed to be the market rate? Or could it be that he just wants you out for whatever reason..........................

He stated earlier that he believed he was already paying significantly more than his neighbors.

9 minutes ago, tonray said:

He stated earlier that he believed he was already paying significantly more than his neighbors.

Sure....................hence my comment that the landlord could also just want him out for whatever the reason...............it's a typical move.....increase the price above what you know the tenant is comfortable with and 'hey presto' it reverts back to the landlord.........................

6 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

AND demand a discount.

First, list the 'features' you want, prioritize* them, and use that to 'size up' the alternative places you inspect. *Years back my employer changed the office location making it a 90 minute drive to work. For several reasons I decided to move, 1st priority 'no more than 10 minute drive to work'. And I quickly found a new place with all my 'needs' and 10 minutes drive to work. Never forget to take numerous photos of every room, wall, cabinet, appliance, garden etc., with time stamp. Make a file' of the photos, perhaps 2 or 4 photos per A4 page and e.mail the file to the landlord and ask whether he/she accepts the photos as 'true and correct'. None of this is difficult. 

 

 

32 minutes ago, bojo said:

Sure....................hence my comment that the landlord could also just want him out for whatever the reason...............it's a typical move.....increase the price above what you know the tenant is comfortable with and 'hey presto' it reverts back to the landlord.........................

If he's up on his lease term, landlord can throw him out in any event. I've never heard of a lease that gives tenant right of renewal if the landlord wants him out. But might be the "Thai" way of avoiding confrontation or maybe knowing he has a 'mark' who just might take the bait anyway.

17 hours ago, johng said:

If the scallywag says 20%  increase then offer 20%  less than you are paying now...there must be thousands of empty places to rent around the area now  anyone asking for a price increase is just  "taking the Mickey"

 

There will also be a lot of "men with a truck"   ready to help you move  for a very small  consideration.

Though it would be wise to find a few alternative places to rent before  putting the ultimatum to the landlord

 

Any advice on how to find "men with a truck"? Thanks.

Only you know if cheaper rent and ,maybe a better place, is worth the hassle of moving.

 

I would not advise to offer 20% less, usually not good to <deleted> off a possible landlord.

 

But finding alternative places is a great idea. You might even find a place you think is worth the hassle. When you tell the landlord you are moving she, he might offer to keep the rent the same. But understand they will be itching to raise it. Up to you to evaluate that scenario.

 

Buona Fortuna.

Everybody I know and Chiang Mai is paying less for the rent by myself I went to Land Lord and asked for a reduction he was happy to give them a reduction because he knows the market is very bad and a lot of the properties have been vacant for over a year now if I were you I would just tell him I want 20% less or I’m moving out it’s easy to find a new place TT

18 hours ago, Henryford said:

Depends what you are paying now, is it super cheap. When was the last rent increase?

Most people are giving you advise assuming that you are now paying market rents? You didn't say that? 

Moving is a big hassle! Take a look around, check rents, compare locations and then make your decision.

Maybe the owners want you to move? 

they might want you out so they can sell the property
or sell the property they are living in and move into that property
just because they are the landlord
dont expect everything to be fine and dandy for them
although it does sound like you have already let them take advantage of you, so they might aswell try.

????

19 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Find a cheaper place and tell the landlord you are leaving. When he changes his mind and tells you that you can stay, tell him you'll only stay if he reduces the rent to match the other place you found.

Problem is, if this gets out of hand, & the owner is Thai, you know, the loss of face and all, OP has sweet FA of getting his deposit back as a form of payback.

 

 

How does this equate with your contract?

 

Any increase in rent requires an explanation as to why and how it is justified at all, and why particularly 20%

 

No good reason then refuse.

19 hours ago, falangUK said:

but with the amount of furniture and other things that have accumulated over the years, it's a herculean task.

 

Which is why the rent is increasing?

 

Forget the % and focus on the amount of the increase.

19 hours ago, falangUK said:

I am a landlord in the UK, I reduced the rent by 15% (while absorbing the increased management costs, letting fees etc)

I am a U.K. landlord too and reduced the rent by 20% since covid. 
I rent a condo in Chiang Mai and the landlord has said they want a rent increase when the current agreement expires. I will be looking elsewhere.
Been renting same place for 18 months and always paid on time but will not be paying a higher rent. Plenty of other units in my condo building that are empty. The mindset of Thai landlords is very different. I rented a different unit for 6 months in the same building and only moved units because the Thai landlord wanted a higher rent. That unit has been empty for the last 18 months since I moved out. 

As a landlord in UK, my business plans has always been to try to keep a good tenant in occupation.  Maybe a new tenant will pay more but consider the 2-3 months the property will be empty between tenants.  However can we expect business logic from Thai landlord?

As for getting your deposit back, it used to be common for departing tenants not to pay the last 2-3 months rent, but let the deposit cover that.

Landlord is probably being advised by 'his friend Somchai' who knows of a 'similar place' being rented for 50% more than your rent

3 minutes ago, skorts said:

That unit has been empty for the last 18 months since I moved out. 

Amazing isn't it???......Cutting their nose off to spite their face........mental

3 minutes ago, Robin said:

As a landlord in UK, my business plans has always been to try to keep a good tenant in occupation.  Maybe a new tenant will pay more but consider the 2-3 months the property will be empty between tenants.  However can we expect business logic from Thai landlord?

As for getting your deposit back, it used to be common for departing tenants not to pay the last 2-3 months rent, but let the deposit cover that.

Landlord is probably being advised by 'his friend Somchai' who knows of a 'similar place' being rented for 50% more than your rent

I share the same business plan on my U.K. property. It has worked well over the years and kept tenants long term. On a change of tenant I have always set the rent below other comparable properties. This has avoided the property remaining empty between tenancies.
You would have to be getting significantly more rent each month to recoup the loss of rent if the property is vacant for 2 to 3 months. 
But as you say Thai landlords don’t seem to grasp that concept.

I would walk away if you can

20 hours ago, falangUK said:

The best option will be to move, but with the amount of furniture and other things that have accumulated over the years, it's a herculean task.

Labor to move your stuff is dirt cheap.  Find another property, lock in a lease, and move.  Greed in a buyer's (renter's) market should not be rewarded.  You landlord will end up sitting on an overpriced property that will go unrented.  But typical Thai mindset - raise prices in the middle of an economic downturn.

Just now, skorts said:

I share the same business plan on my U.K. property. It has worked well over the years and kept tenants long term. On a change of tenant I have always set the rent below other comparable properties. This has avoided the property remaining empty between tenancies.
You would have to be getting significantly more rent each month to recoup the loss of rent if the property is vacant for 2 to 3 months. 
But as you say Thai landlords don’t seem to grasp that concept.

Excellent point.......lost my 15 year tenant.......and four months rent as a result. Had to accept shot term rents to quickly fill the gap.......back to a 12 month contract now at least.

My last move from Sannameng to Sansai Noi (not so far) with a house full of furniture cost me $1000.00 USD. I have one more year on my 3 year contract. While I do not look forward to moving and would like to renew for another 3 years, my 15,000 a month is at the top of my budget for an unfurnished home. I figure the owner gets a good steady rental payment from a good renter who takes care of the property. If he agrees to another 3 years, I will stay. Raise the rent and I will have another property lined up.

As others have said, I would look for another place and use that as a bargaining tool however when going back to the table to negociate be careful, I'm sure you know that Thais don't like to lose face and you may find yourself HAVING to move because of their pure shortsigtedness.

 

If you really want to stay where you are and you haven't had a price hike in five years, I would push for 0% but let the landlord save face by  giving him 5% with no further rent increase for x years.

16 minutes ago, skorts said:

I am a U.K. landlord too and reduced the rent by 20% since covid. 
I rent a condo in Chiang Mai and the landlord has said they want a rent increase when the current agreement expires. I will be looking elsewhere.
Been renting same place for 18 months and always paid on time but will not be paying a higher rent. Plenty of other units in my condo building that are empty. The mindset of Thai landlords is very different. I rented a different unit for 6 months in the same building and only moved units because the Thai landlord wanted a higher rent. That unit has been empty for the last 18 months since I moved out. 

Thai landlords have (at least) three things going against them,  First is greed.  Increasing rent in an economic downturn is counter-intuitive and yet - greed rules the day.  Second is their lack of understanding of supply and demand (and business sense and basic economics in general).  Does you landlord have even an inkling of an idea what the surrounding property are renting for.  My guess is "no."  Third is their inability to game out scenarios into the future.  They only think in the here-and-now.  That inability to forecast and plan is an income killer. And if your landlord is paying down a mortgage with the rent he is receiving, that poor business sense could cost him his property in the long run.
Greed.  Don't reward Greed.  Move.

ok.  You are already paying TWICE what others are...and since you moved in rents have gone down 50% or more in many areas, especially tourist.

so that means you are paying 4X what you could be.

Advice...go find a nice palace to live in at the current price you are paying and move.  OR move to same quality and stock bank or live large with the difference.

Moving is a PITA but as others said, hire out with your savings.  Sometimes a new location is refreshing for the soul.