UK State Pensions - yet another sick joke?

[Pumpuynarak]

What effect does Community charge have on anyone using a friend/family address to secure the pension increases when in fact living abroad ?

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, fredscats said:

 "In total, she was overpaid a total of £41,467.19 in disability living allowance (DLA), housing benefit, and council tax benefit between 2012 and 2017."  

 

Nothing about State Pension then?

 

Nothing like a punter getting hold of a four year English language  Filipino rag,stating "DereK" had been "found out" living illegally on pension in PH, and quoting on TV that as the ultimate truth ,pity it went out of circulation on next installment,maybe got its facts wrong

Can you explain your second paragraph? It makes no sense to me at all.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K have been freezing pensions abroad for over 70 years , which was 23 years before the U.K even joined the E.U. , let alone leave the E.U 

   How can Brexit be responsible for frozen pensions ?

The usual context distortion, I never said that.

Under the frozen pension rules all state pensions in the EU should have been frozen on the 1st January. Had the government followed their own rules there would have been an uproar which may well have de-stabilised the brexit discussions, but the government manipulated the rules to suit the brexit agenda. The brexit brigade would never want to be associated with such an injustice or allow the intense public discussion that would have come about. it was much easier to change the rules for that particular group and keep things quiet. Flies in the face of government policy to not create any more reciprocal agreements.

The point was, if they can change the rules for what would have been the victims of brexit, they can change them for everyone that has been victimised.

The 70 years is irrelevant, historical precedence does amount to justification, as history has proved time and time again. 

[fredscats]

39 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Can you explain your second paragraph? It makes no sense to me at all.

..but it does to the individual concerned,a screaming banshee for sure

[fredscats]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The 70 years is irrelevant, historical precedence does amount to justification, as history has proved time and time again. 

That is quoted often by govt as means of justifying, but if logic it should be having the opposite effect,     but is it 3 years ? since Brexit the govt,have once again to look at proposals for the EU status of unfrozen pensioners. If left unfrozen,surely the time for a remedy for all

 

The UK govt when setting up individual agreement with countries those years ago ran out of money/time/patience to extend further

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, fredscats said:

That is quoted often by govt as means of justifying, but if logic it should be having the opposite effect,     but is it 3 years ? since Brexit the govt,have once again to look at proposals for the EU status of unfrozen pensioners. If left unfrozen,surely the time for a remedy for all

 

The UK govt when setting up individual agreement with countries those years ago ran out of money/time/patience to extend further

As far as I am aware the current arrangement for EU expats is from Jan 1st 2021  till Dec 31st 2023. The only new agreement in about 40 years is this one in the pipeline for the EU.

When the reciprocal agreement with Canada was made, the Canadian government at that time had no provision to export pensions so they were not included in the agreement. Since then the Canadian government has made allowance for pensions to be exported but the UK government has not been prepared to amend the agreement.

Unfortunately consistency is not one of the governments, of all persuasions, strong points.

[vinny41]

7 hours ago, treetops said:

API information supplied for every flight into or out of the UK gives the government that information.  Whether it's shared with the DWP, I have no idea.

 

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

According to this article the DWP can access API information if required

Benefits cheat claimed she lived in Spain to help her health

She initially denied living abroad altogether, before finally admitting she had moved to Spain when confronted with flight records.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/06/benefits-cheat-claimed-lived-spain-help-health-11049460/

 

3 hours ago, fredscats said:

 "In total, she was overpaid a total of £41,467.19 in disability living allowance (DLA), housing benefit, and council tax benefit between 2012 and 2017."  

 

Nothing about State Pension then?

 

Nothing like a punter getting hold of a four year English language  Filipino rag,stating "DereK" had been "found out" living illegally on pension in PH, and quoting on TV that as the ultimate truth ,pity it went out of circulation on next installment,maybe got its facts wrong

If you had read my post you would have seen I was replying to the question If API flight information was supplied to the DWP or not and from the article clearly the DWP can access that information if required

[Mac Mickmanus]

13 hours ago, Joinaman said:

I wonder what would happen, if like me and a few friends, who have no property in the UK, were to return to live

Obviously, with no home, then would need all the basic things, like flat, house, furniture, , plus all the additional benefits that would be available 

Couple of friends have said that if it gets worse here, or they have pension problems, they would fly back, and then go sit in the Benfits office until they got everything they are entitled to

Their view is what can they do to them, , if immigrants can get these benefits, why not pensioners 

You would get nothing at all . 

If you had four kids with you, you may be lucky to get emergency temporary accommodation , if you've got two kids with you , you would probably get a room in a hostel .

   If you've got no kids with you , they will give you the address of the local homeless shelter , where you would have to queue up every night in order to get a bed to sleep and you would have to leave the next morning .  

   You need to book an appointment by telephone with the benefits office , if you are retired, they wouldn't even give you an appointment and security wouldn't let you in .  

[bradiston]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

 

If you had read my post you would have seen I was replying to the question If API flight information was supplied to the DWP or not and from the article clearly the DWP can access that information if required

I can't understand him either. He's banging on about somebody called Derek in the Philippines. 

[fredscats]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

 

If you had read my post you would have seen I was replying to the question If API flight information was supplied to the DWP or not and from the article clearly the DWP can access that information if required

Of course they can,but as this thread is State Pension there would be no need,as it is non sanctionable,no action taken,you might as well add an 81 year old flies into outer space shortly

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, fredscats said:

Of course they can,but as this thread is State Pension there would be no need,as it is non sanctionable,no action taken,you might as well add an 81 year old flies into outer space shortly

Is failing to notify a change of circumstance not an offence? Just curious.

Edited July 19, 2021 by bradiston

[hotandsticky]

12 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I no doubt, I'm just saying if Life Forms are sent out randomly they should be sent everyone not just people abroad.

 

 

Agree, same as the private pension funds do.....

[Eff1n2ret]

4 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

What effect does Community charge have on anyone using a friend/family address to secure the pension increases when in fact living abroad ?

None, I suspect, unless they had reason to investigate such a person. The local authority levies the Community Charge based on the annual declarations of household occupants for the voter's list. That is not linked in any way to Department of Pensions records. However, if the DWP had any reason to investigate someone, the Voters List would be an obvious line of enquiry, and they might reasonably ask why someone who claims an address as their residence is not included on the List. The Community Charge is levied according to property values established decades ago, and the only variation to the Charge that I know of is a reduction for single occupancy.

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Agree, same as the private pension funds do.....

Strange you should say that never had any proof of life form asked for from my 2 private personal pension pots in 9 years. 

 

Had my UK pension stopped twice at 2 year gaps because alledgely IPC/DWP had sent a POLF which I never received and after telephoning them to inquire why my pension was stopped they sent another LF which I did receive, they released my pension after giving ID proof over the phone and I got them to call me back. 

 

Since the pandemic I think Life Forms have been withheld for the time being.

I send an email every now and then asking if they have sent a Life Form to me and to email me back or phone me.

 

They just email back saying your UK Pension will be continued to be paid as no Life Forms at this time has been sent. 

[doctormann]

43 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Is failing to notify a change of circumstance not an offence? Just curious.

Could be.  Herewith an extract from a document that I received from the DWP.  If this would ever be enforced is, of course, debatable.

 

[bradiston]

39 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Could be.  Herewith an extract from a document that I received from the DWP.  If this would ever be enforced is, of course, debatable.

 

Yes, I've been looking at cf-n-701. I didn't see any mention of penalties or prosecutions though. Maybe the authors of your letter have added that bit. The one on their site is dated 11/06.

 

Also maybe worth a mention is the following:

 

"The reciprocal agreement countries are:

Barbados, Bermuda, Bosnia Herzegovina, Croatia

Guernsey, Israel, Jamaica, Jersey, Mauritius,

Montenegro, Philippines, Serbia, Turkey, USA and

the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

If you do not get the increase while you are

abroad, you may get the higher amount of benefit

if you visit either the UK or a country where the

European Community regulations apply or a

reciprocal agreement country except Bermuda

and the USA. The lower amount will again be paid

when you leave.

You must tell us within one month of the date

of arrival in the UK or any of the countries

listed above to claim the increased amount

from the earliest possible date."

 

So, a fair amount of choice if you want to regain the paltry increases. I think this year's were a staggering .5%.

 

In their letter to me, they said they would continue paying at the basic rate unless I returned their questionnaire, which they would evaluate. And it emphasised the notification of changes of circumstance within one month.

 

YMMV

[Joinaman]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You would get nothing at all . 

If you had four kids with you, you may be lucky to get emergency temporary accommodation , if you've got two kids with you , you would probably get a room in a hostel .

   If you've got no kids with you , they will give you the address of the local homeless shelter , where you would have to queue up every night in order to get a bed to sleep and you would have to leave the next morning .  

   You need to book an appointment by telephone with the benefits office , if you are retired, they wouldn't even give you an appointment and security wouldn't let you in .  

thanks, but would you not be able to claim additional benefits to increase your pension 

Are you saying you could not rent a property and then claim all the additional benefits allowed, like rent and rates rebates, furniture and fittings for house/flat. gas and eclectic top ups if needed and anything else that seems to be available to those who know ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

16 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

thanks, but would you not be able to claim additional benefits to increase your pension 

Are you saying you could not rent a property and then claim all the additional benefits allowed, like rent and rates rebates, furniture and fittings for house/flat. gas and eclectic top ups if needed and anything else that seems to be available to those who know ?

You would need to find a private  property to rent first , landlords often require proof of income for a few years and at least be assured that you will be eligible for housing benefit . 

  To apply for housing benefit you need a tenancy agreement first and many landlords would be unwilling to sign a tenancy agreement with proof of ability to pay the rent .

   You can calculate your benefit entitlement from the Gov website 

 

https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

 

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

[fredscats]

6 hours ago, bradiston said:

Is failing to notify a change of circumstance not an offence? Just curious.

Change of circumstances ,not offence,read up on it     SP is non sanctionable

[fredscats]

5 hours ago, bradiston said:

Yes, I've been looking at cf-n-701. I didn't see any mention of penalties or prosecutions though. Maybe the authors of your letter have added that bit. The one on their site is dated 11/06.

 

So, a fair amount of choice if you want to regain the paltry increases. I think this year's were a staggering .5%.

 

 

 

 

No penalties,informs on DWP website

 

5 %? try 10/15 years worth

[Jumbo1968]

7 minutes ago, fredscats said:

No penalties,informs on DWP website

 

5 %? try 10/15 years worth

Next year triple lock is estimated at 8%, the Chancellor has already said they can’t afford it.

[treetops]

11 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

The local authority levies the Community Charge based on the annual declarations of household occupants for the voter's list.

Agree with what you say, but I also get regular requests to declare I'm still the only person at my address, and therefore entitled to the single person's reduction, over and above the annual declaration.  I believe this is down to my address being the mailing address for an overseas friend with accounts/properties in the UK.  Not state pension related, but they know from somewhere and I don't know what's done with their information or my declarations.

[vinny41]

14 hours ago, bradiston said:

I can't understand him either. He's banging on about somebody called Derek in the Philippines. 

Who Knows maybe he was thinking about Stan from Pattaya

One in 20 British expat pensioners are fiddling their state pensions by claiming inflation-linked rises to which they are not entitled, according to the government.

The British pensioners claim the annual pension increase and the £200 winter fuel allowance by telling the Department of Work and Pensions they live in the UK when they really live overseas.

https://www.iexpats.com/cheating-expats-try-fiddle-pension-claims/

 

According to Gov UK. The Philippines is one of the countries where you pension does increase everytime their an increase in the UK 

Countries the UK has a social security agreement with

If you live in one of the following countries and receive a UK State Pension, you will usually get an increase in your pension every year:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pensions-annual-increases-if-you-live-abroad/countries-where-we-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension

[bradiston]

7 hours ago, fredscats said:

Change of circumstances ,not offence,read up on it     SP is non sanctionable

I can't find your sources for these assertions. Where?

[bradiston]

7 hours ago, fredscats said:

No penalties,informs on DWP website

 

5 %? try 10/15 years worth

Where on the DWP website? I couldn't see any references to this at all.

[fredscats]

5 hours ago, bradiston said:

Where on the DWP website? I couldn't see any references to this at all.

Only sanctionable benefits can be reduced or stopped. Some benefits are not sanctioned but instead called disqualifying benefits.

These include but are not limited to:

• Retirement Pension
• Disability Living Allowance
• Attendance Allowance
• Personal Independence Payment

 

Meaning?cannot be touched    read up on it, its all there

Edited July 20, 2021 by fredscats

[bradiston]

20 minutes ago, fredscats said:

Only sanctionable benefits can be reduced or stopped. Some benefits are not sanctioned but instead called disqualifying benefits.

These include but are not limited to:

• Retirement Pension
• Disability Living Allowance
• Attendance Allowance
• Personal Independence Payment

 

Meaning?cannot be touched    read up on it, its all there

I'm still at a loss to find the references you quote. I'd gladly read up on it if I could find it.

[fredscats]

5 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I'm still at a loss to find the references you quote. I'd gladly read up on it if I could find it.

Sanctionable benefits

Benefits which can be withdrawn or reduced are called sanctionable benefits. These include but are not limited to:

• Employment and Support Allowance
• Housing Benefits
• Incapacity Benefit
• Income Support
• Jobseeker's Allowance
• Pension Credit
• Universal Credit

Disqualifying benefits

Only sanctionable benefits can be reduced or stopped. Some benefits are not sanctioned but instead called disqualifying benefits.

These include but are not limited to:

• Retirement Pension
• Disability Living Allowance
• Attendance Allowance
• Personal Independence Payment

If fraud is committed against one of these benefits it may lead to a penalty against a benefit which can be sanctioned.

Exceptions

If you commit benefit fraud and you’re on any of the following benefits, none of your benefits can be stopped or reduced:

• Diffuse Mesothelioma Scheme (2008)
• Health in Pregnancy Grant
• Maternity Allowance
• Pneumoconiosis (Workers’ Compensation) 1979
• Statutory Adoption Pay        
• Statutory Maternity Pay
• Statutory Paternity Pay
• Statutory Sick Pay

[fredscats]

12 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I'm still at a loss to find the references you quote. I'd gladly read up on it if I could find it.

State pension
£0mfraud losses (0%).
£80mcustomer error losses (0.08%).
£10mofficial error losses (0.01%).
£90mtotal error losses of total expenditure of £96.9 billion (0.09%)31.The state pension shows a fraud rate of zero, and this reflects what the DWP assert to be the very low risk of fra

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You would need to find a private  property to rent first , landlords often require proof of income for a few years and at least be assured that you will be eligible for housing benefit . 

  To apply for housing benefit you need a tenancy agreement first and many landlords would be unwilling to sign a tenancy agreement with proof of ability to pay the rent .

   You can calculate your benefit entitlement from the Gov website 

 

https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

 

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

Yes that can be a bit of a hurdle. When I was self employed I rented a flat and had to pay 6 months rent up front, which at the time was about 2 grand and probably about 3 now.

It should be born in mind that someone on a frozen pension going back would be on full pension from the day they arrive. For me the difference is now over £30 a week.

 

There was an article a few years back about a guy going back from here with virtually nothing and below pension age. He just stayed in Heathrow and was found accommodation quite quickly.