Thai study finds 2 doses of Sinovac can’t beat Delta variant, AstraZeneca can

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3 minutes ago, polpott said:

Currently, a large majority of UK citizens are being given the Phizer vaccine. New cases continue to rise exponentially.

First off, you would have to compare that cohort to how the unvaccinated are faring. Second, even if they are being infected, what percentage require hospitalization? What about mortality?

[ThailandRyan]

23 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

I am NOT an anti-vaxer. I want to be vaccinated with something that WORKS. I get flu shots every year. They WORK. Sinovac might be better than a placebo, but I want Pfizer or Moderna.

Thank you for clarifying your earlier post, my apologies for jumping to a conclusion based upon what and how you posted.

[gearbox]

24 minutes ago, misterjames said:

Nonsense. 

 

"the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88% effective against symptomatic disease from the B.1.617.2 variant 2 weeks after the second dose, compared to 93% effectiveness against the B.1.1.7 variant"

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-b-1-617-2-variant-after-2-doses

Where are the real world breakthrough statistics? It has been enough time since the Delta variant started spreading to publish these.

Very simple statistics - e.g. for the last week total of X cases, from them Y with 2 shots and Z with 1 shot. Then split the breakthrough cases per vaccine. The Hungarian government did something similar a few months ago.

Let the numbers talk.

I can't find any info about that, any pointers?

[tomacht8]

On 7/9/2021 at 2:36 PM, RichardColeman said:

So they are still ordering and paying for and injecting stuff that doesn't work. 

 

You can only assume someone is earning greatly out these deal with China

I would say if. If honest officials catch other criminal officials getting rich by vaccine deals and stealing taxpayers money to enrich themselves personally and society lacks the money to procure sufficient vaccines, then I am for poking those criminals against the wall and putting a bullet in their heads.

 

[gearbox]

42 minutes ago, polpott said:

I'm currently in the UK and have had 2 doses of the AZ vaccine, 8 weeks apart. Tested positive for Covid 2 weeks after my 2nd dose. Caught it from my friend who had 2 doses of AZ 12 weeks apart and tested positive a month after his 2nd dose. None of the current vaccines appear to protect against the Indian variant. Most people in the UK are now fully vaccinated and the number of new cases is rising exponentially since the beginning of June when the indian variant took hold.

 

Are the symptoms less severe? Both my friend and I were quite ill and my symptoms were more severe than my daughter and son in laws symptoms who contracted Covid last October. There is no protection against the Indian variant.

Nobody can make a conclusion if the vaccines are not effective based only on your and your friends case. Much bigger sample size is needed.

[Tony125]

 

Pfizer develops booster shots to take after COVID vaccines

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-develops-booster-shots-to-take-after-covid-vaccines/vi-AALXHWd

 

 

 

 

US coronavirus: With an uptick in cases, there is growing alarm. 'We've seen almost an entire takeover in the Delta variant,' one state official says

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/us-coronavirus-with-an-uptick-in-cases-there-is-growing-alarm-weve-seen-almost-an-entire-takeover-in-the-delta-variant-one-state-official-says/ar-AALZpzD?li=BBnb7Kz

Edited July 10, 2021 by Tony125

[placnx]

19 hours ago, englishoak said:

You forgot the important part, nature means viruses that are subject to variants always become less deadly at the expense of better transmission.  Without fail all become less deadly not more and eventually virtually harmless. We know this is the case throughout history...now that dosnt mean a variant wont be existing jabs resistant but it does mean its highly likely to be much less  dangerous, like the Delta variation,more transmissible but much much less deadly than the original. 

 

Trust in nature, shes had more experience keeping balance than all humans that have ever lived combined.

Whether a virus mutates to be more or less deadly is not a hard and fast rule. The 1918 flu became quite deadly in the second year. It's a complex issue. Viruses might have petered out in the past by killing all who were in proximity. Nowadays, Ebola can spread due to the roads which didn't exist in 1976, for example. Corona-19 is still developing, and inadequate vaccines will make it more infectious, so more deadly in the sense that it will eventually be able to break though the immunity of those who got inferior vaccines and pick off the weaker ones.

[Artisi]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:34 PM, rbkk said:

 

Perhaps it's C.O.D. and can be returned.

If ordered thru' Lazada, yes it can be returned within 7 days. 

[cjinchiangrai]

I would happily take the Sinovac today just for the reduction in hospitalizations and deaths. There are no vacines available up north, none. All of the pissing and moaning about boosters and delays on your next dose are meaningless. There are no doses of anything.

[Tony125]

13 hours ago, placnx said:

Whether a virus mutates to be more or less deadly is not a hard and fast rule. The 1918 flu became quite deadly in the second year. It's a complex issue. Viruses might have petered out in the past by killing all who were in proximity. Nowadays, Ebola can spread due to the roads which didn't exist in 1976, for example. Corona-19 is still developing, and inadequate vaccines will make it more infectious, so more deadly in the sense that it will eventually be able to break though the immunity of those who got inferior vaccines and pick off the weaker ones.

There are 'more consequences to Covid-19 than just death,' doctor weighs in on importance of vaccinations

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/there-are-more-consequences-to-covid-19-than-just-death-doctor-weighs-in-on-importance-of-vaccinations/vi-AAM0nFA

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:01 PM, ThailandRyan said:

Yet how many who have had the first dose of the AstraZenica vaccine are still waiting for the 2nd one.  12 weeks apart is what they have been going with.  Wonder how just the one jab of AZ does versus the 2 Sinovac jabs, and if the one AZ jab gives one a fighting chance.  Would like to see a study on that.

More to the point how  about  one dose of AZ  getting bypassed  by the virus as Thais  think ones  enough.

[choff56]

20 hours ago, Tony125 said:

 

Delta variant is 'Covid-19 on steroids,' expert says, with cases increasing in nearly half of US states

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/delta-variant-is-covid-19-on-steroids-expert-says-with-cases-increasing-in-nearly-half-of-us-states/ar-AALUiyW

To be more precise, all the "dumb as ----" red states. In the big picture this is probably a good thing. 

[Tony125]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:01 PM, ThailandRyan said:

Yet how many who have had the first dose of the AstraZenica vaccine are still waiting for the 2nd one.  12 weeks apart is what they have been going with.  Wonder how just the one jab of AZ does versus the 2 Sinovac jabs, and if the one AZ jab gives one a fighting chance.  Would like to see a study on that.

How much protection you get from one shot of the Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Moderna vaccines, according to the best available data

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/much-protection-one-shot-pfizer-150303777.html

[John Drake]

Anecdotally, three Americans I know went and got their first Covid shot on Friday. And it was Sinovac. For a couple of months now all three of them have been dismissive of the "Chinavax" and swore it would never get into their arms. But, as it turns out, when you have a pandemic crisis at hand, you will take what you can get and hope for the best. I think they made the right choice, although it will take six to eight weeks for the vaccine to kick in at its highest level. Will it prevent the spread of Delta? Probably not. Will it protect against the worst outcome? Maybe. Better than nothing. I continue to be amazed by people who react to these news stories out of what is seemingly a political attitude. If it's China, it's bad. That is why so many people dismissed the Thai study a couple of weeks ago that said Sinovac was providing adequate protection. They attacked its methodology, its authors, its data. Now, some of those very same people are here now praising another Thai study because it supports their vaccine, AZ. No mention of methodology, authors, data, etc. I still say this is a perilous time. Get what protection you can, when you can. If that's Sinovac, so be it. If you're counting on Moderna, you are going to running through quite an obstacle course to avoid Covid between now and Moderna's four, five, six month or more arrival date.

Edited July 11, 2021 by John Drake

[gearbox]

34 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

How much protection you get from one shot of the Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Moderna vaccines, according to the best available data

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/much-protection-one-shot-pfizer-150303777.html

Not with the Delta variant...

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/one-jab-of-astrazeneca-pfizer-barely-inhibits-delta-variant-20210709-p58885.html

 

[gearbox]

20 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Anecdotally, three Americans I know went and got their first Covid shot on Friday. And it was Sinovac. For a couple of months now all three of them have been dismissive of the "Chinavax" and swore it would never get into their arms. But, as it turns out, when you have a pandemic crisis at hand, you will take what you can get and hope for the best. I think they made the right choice, although it will take six to eight weeks for the vaccine to kick in at its highest level. Will it prevent the spread of Delta? Probably not. Will it protect against the worst outcome? Maybe. Better than nothing. I continue to be amazed by people who react to these news stories out of what is seemingly a political attitude. If it's China, it's bad. That is why so many people dismissed the Thai study a couple of weeks ago that said Sinovac was providing adequate protection. They attacked its methodology, its authors, its data. Now, some of those very same people are here now praising another Thai study because it supports their vaccine, AZ. No mention of methodology, authors, data, etc. I still say this is a perilous time. Get what protection you can, when you can. If that's Sinovac, so be it. If you're counting on Moderna, you are going to running through quite an obstacle course to avoid Covid between now and Moderna's four, five, six month or more arrival date.

Sinovac is good vaccine, but it is not known how it rates against the Delta variant, which seems to matter a lot now. One of the reasons is that in the countries where Sinovac is extensively used the Delta variant is not widespread yet. Maybe new data will come soon.

There seem to be a lot of studies going around in regards to boosters and mixing vaccines, so it may be possible to boost 2 X shots of Sinovac with a different type of vaccine, and get lot more effectiveness. So 2 shots of Sinovac in the end may not be wasted at all.

Actually this was what the OP article was about, however for some reasons got "edited" along the way.  2 X Sinovac + 1 X AZ offering the best of the best protection 555

[rabas]

15 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Not with the Delta variant...

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/one-jab-of-astrazeneca-pfizer-barely-inhibits-delta-variant-20210709-p58885.html

 

From the same article.

 

"In [French] laboratory tests, blood from several dozen people given their first dose of the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines “barely inhibited” the Delta variant, the team reported . "

 

"However, in real world conditions, researchers in Britain found that even one dose of Pfizer provided 94 per cent likelihood of protection against hospitalisation, and AstraZeneca provided 71 percent protection after one jab."

 

Define "barely inhibited".  Does it mean it stopped the infection?

[friendofthai]

Looks like a very very dangerous propaganda post. Most people will decide to wait for AZ or another vaccine after reading this. Let's analyze what exactly was said in the article:

"...getting a booster dose of AstraZeneca will be enough to protect them from contracting the Delta variant"

"Protect them from contracting the Delta variant" means "avoiding infection with the Delta variant". So they are talking about prevention of the spread of the disease, not about preventing hospitalization and death. But most of us don't mind having a harmless form of COVID with symptoms identical to ones of common cold. We only want to avoid hospitalization and death. Sinovac is good enough for this purpose.

Edited July 11, 2021 by friendofthai

[gearbox]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

From the same article.

 

"In [French] laboratory tests, blood from several dozen people given their first dose of the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines “barely inhibited” the Delta variant, the team reported . "

 

"However, in real world conditions, researchers in Britain found that even one dose of Pfizer provided 94 per cent likelihood of protection against hospitalisation, and AstraZeneca provided 71 percent protection after one jab."

 

Define "barely inhibited".  Does it mean it stopped the infection?

Who knows...this is what the French say. The 94% and 71% in the article are from a different study.

 

Where are the UK breakthrough statistics? They had more than 20 days with 10k+ cases per day,  enough cases to put out some numbers.

[Tony125]

39 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Not with the Delta variant...

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/one-jab-of-astrazeneca-pfizer-barely-inhibits-delta-variant-20210709-p58885.html

 

NYC COVID-19 infection rate on the rise

 

Coronavirus infection rates are rising again in New York City as the virulent Delta strain spreads quickly among unvaccinated people   (that's unvaccinated  people)

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/nyc-covid-19-infection-rate-on-the-rise/ar-AAM0yXz?li=BBnb7Kz

[gearbox]

14 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Looks like a very very dangerous propaganda post. Most people will decide to wait for AZ or another vaccine after reading this. Let's analyze what exactly was said in the article:

"...getting a booster dose of AstraZeneca will be enough to protect them from contracting the Delta variant"

"Protect them from contracting the Delta variant" means "avoiding infection with the Delta variant". So they are talking about prevention of the spread of the disease, not about preventing hospitalization and death. But most of us don't mind having a harmless form of COVID with symptoms identical to ones of common cold. We only want to avoid hospitalization and death. Sinovac is good enough for this purpose.

Sinovac is the world's most used vaccine. I wish them well, I hope it works, as I want to resume my normal life and travel as soon as possible. Wishing well to all other manufacturers too, if their vaccines work we'll be out of this hole sooner.

[kynikoi]

Selling snake oil

[John Drake]

29 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

"Protect them from contracting the Delta variant" means "avoiding infection with the Delta variant". So they are talking about prevention of the spread of the disease, not about preventing hospitalization and death. But most of us don't mind having a harmless form of COVID with symptoms identical to ones of common cold. We only want to avoid hospitalization and death. Sinovac is good enough for this purpose.

I would agree with all that. But I don't want to pass it on to someone else either. That means those someone else's also need protection. So I don't care whether it's Sinovac, Sinopharm, or AZ, we also need to see vaccination take place all across Thailand, so those people are protected against hospitalization, too. If that means just Sinovac, that's okay.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, friendofthai said:

Protect them from contracting the Delta variant" means "avoiding infection with the Delta variant". So they are talking about prevention of the spread of the disease, not about preventing hospitalization and death. But most of us don't mind having a harmless form of COVID with symptoms identical to ones of common cold. We only want to avoid hospitalization and death. Sinovac is good enough for this purpose.

In a way, you summarized the experimental Singapore model. Treat COVID-19 as endemic when vaccination reached a desired target just like influenza. Serious hospitalization and deaths can be avoided with vaccination. Treat infected patients with improving therapeutics. This will allow normalization of everyday life and economy. Many countries are watching whether this model is the way out of this dreadful virus. ????

[misterjames]

3 hours ago, gearbox said:

Sinovac is good vaccine

The sick and dead Indonesian Doctors would disagree with you.

 

"JAKARTA (Reuters) -- More than 350 Indonesian doctors have contracted COVID-19 despite being vaccinated with Sinovac, and dozens have been hospitalized, officials said, as concerns rise about the efficacy of some vaccines against more virulent virus strains."

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/COVID-vaccines/Hundreds-of-Sinovac-injected-Indonesian-doctors-contract-COVID

[Eibot]

On 7/9/2021 at 6:57 PM, thaitom said:

Can I take the booster shot of Astrazeneca right away ? I ask because I take my 2nd dose of Sinovac on Tuesday

Yes, and just to be sure, snore a line of Pfizer while you're at it.

[thaitom]

21 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Yes, and just to be sure, snore a line of Pfizer while you're at it.

Yes sir, thank you sir. I always value your opinion.  Hmm... Does it really come in powder form?

powder mRNA COVID-19 vaccine

 

[Sametboy2019]

Reports coming out from Israel about effiency of pzizer against the Delta variant and even reports of only lasting 6 months

[misterjames]

20 minutes ago, Sametboy2019 said:

Reports coming out from Israel about effiency of pzizer against the Delta variant and even reports of only lasting 6 months

"analysis of 14,019 cases of the Delta variant in the UK, released by Public Health England in June, found the BioNTech/Pfizer and Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccines were, respectively, 96 per cent and 92 per cent effective against hospitalisation after two doses"

 

https://www.ft.com/content/5a24d39a-a702-40d2-876d-b12a524dc9a5

[Selatan]

1 hour ago, misterjames said:

The sick and dead Indonesian Doctors would disagree with you.

 

"JAKARTA (Reuters) -- More than 350 Indonesian doctors have contracted COVID-19 despite being vaccinated with Sinovac, and dozens have been hospitalized, officials said, as concerns rise about the efficacy of some vaccines against more virulent virus strains."

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/COVID-vaccines/Hundreds-of-Sinovac-injected-Indonesian-doctors-contract-COVID

Pfizer's vaccine, which most Malaysian healthcare workers were vaccinated with, also not doing that well:

2,341 fully vaccinated healthcare workers contracted Covid-19

 

Looks like all the current vaccines may need boosters or add-ons.