As Covid-19 batters Thailand’s economy, even pawnshops are running out of customers

[Walker88]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Still no big deal IMHO.

When it's up to 10% death rate in the UK/US/EU I'll be more (but not much more) concerned.

Funny what constitutes, or doesn't, a 'big deal'.

 

Kind of Stalin-esque...."One death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic"

 

Of course Stalin was a psychopath and incapable of empathy.

 

 

[BritManToo]

46 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Of course Stalin was a psychopath and incapable of empathy.

I'd probably be worse than Stalin ......... given a chance .......

[Rimmer]

A misleading troll post and a reply have been removed

[harleyclarkey]

9 hours ago, khunpa said:

 

Sad to see so many Thais having their lives destroyed. All because of selfish rich people.

 

 

?????. Really?

It is the rich Chinese Communist Government members who have made the world what it is today. A fearful virus filled world that has taken over 4 million lives.

 

They alone are the ones responsible for further impoverishing hundreds, even thousands, of millions into dire straits. And they don't care a toss.

 

They now refuse to cooperate with the WHO into the virus origins. If they are innocent surely they would be delighted to cooperate and clear their rotten name.

 

Nobody else but the ruling Chinese are responsible. 

[geisha]

I was in Thailand during the Financial crisis 1997 . It was nowhere near the Covid pandemic tragedy ! Yes, people I know lost their expensive cars, a few lost houses, the cleverer bought them.  This crisis has brought the poorest to their knees, reduced to begging for food and desperately seeking help when they become ill. Forced children out of school, and closed the major part of small of business who will probably never recover. Huge difference and more suffering !

[sanuk711]

 

1 minute ago, geisha said:

I was in Thailand during the Financial crisis 1997 . It was nowhere near the Covid pandemic tragedy ! Yes, people I know lost their expensive cars, a few lost houses, the cleverer bought them.  This crisis has brought the poorest to their knees, reduced to begging for food and desperately seeking help when they become ill. Forced children out of school, and closed the major part of small of business who will probably never recover. Huge difference and more suffering !

Sorry Geisha--I couldn't disagree with you more----I was also here and to read that you put it down to "a few lost houses"  some lost expensive cars. Is pretty Ludicrous statement--- you do understand that the economy collapsed.

 

That in 72 hours the Baht lost 50% of its value. If I wake up Monday and the Baht is at 88 to the GPD.... then I would think its as bad as Tom Yum Kung --97 crisis.  Suicides rose to 8.6 per 100 000, a figure never reached again.

 

If you indeed were here--then I can only think that you were comatose throughout out it.

 

Quote--"Huge difference and more suffering" !

 

No...sorry geisha, you weren't here.

[Enoon]

46 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

 

Sorry Geisha--I couldn't disagree with you more----I was also here and to read that you put it down to "a few lost houses"  some lost expensive cars. Is pretty Ludicrous statement--- you do understand that the economy collapsed.

 

That in 72 hours the Baht lost 50% of its value. If I wake up Monday and the Baht is at 88 to the GPD.... then I would think its as bad as Tom Yum Kung --97 crisis.  Suicides rose to 8.6 per 100 000, a figure never reached again.

 

If you indeed were here--then I can only think that you were comatose throughout out it.

 

Quote--"Huge difference and more suffering" !

 

No...sorry geisha, you weren't here.

You sound like you're not really "there" now:

 

"The rate of suicide had already been increasing year-on-year in Thailand pre-pandemic, but during Covid-19, the figure leapt by 11 per cent from 2019 to the end of 2020, from 4,581 to 5,085 deaths, according to statistics from the Ministry for Health."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/suicides-rise-thailand-covid-decimates-tourism-industry/

 

Which would make it about 16 per 100,000 (based on most recent WHO report, 14.4 in 2019).

 

https://theaseanpost.com/article/suicide-thailands-epidemic-pandemic

 

Highest rate in SEA.

 

Cambodia was 5.3 in same report.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Enoon

[pissedoff2am]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

And you believe this virus only attacks the at risk groups, good one. Now try again and research it.  Especially now who are the ones being hospitalized the most, yes the young and 20 to 50 age groups. Don't take my word for it DYOR.

Can you post numbers of people in 20-50 age group hospitalized and who have died? You made the claim so please post sources.

[Elkski]

It's no pleasure watching this ski mo disaster unfold from my safe home in the USA.  I can't imagine how it is for you expats stuck in the thick of it.  I always was in disbelief that Thailand avoided the first wave.  I have read where a similar virus 20-25k years ago may have  given some Asian people protection from covid.  Easy to find this info if you look. But with this Delta mutation all protection see useless.   I predicted 5000 cases a day before songkran. It just took longer than I thought it would but I thought then and still think limited testing is limiting the real case numbers.  

 

What other country besides India, and China had people dying at home and in the streets from covid?  Not a real good list to be on.  I always said Thailand looked like a 3rd World country to me since I began my 11 visits in 2016.  A few fancy malls meant nothing to me.  

The only bright thing I can imagine is that Thailand thug government is so late to the vaccine buying game they should be specifying that they get the latest mRNA recipe and they may end up first in line for an updated recipe that can whip Delta and Lambda and a few others that will pop up by late 2022.   When they say pfizer in 4th quarter they mean maybe Iate December.  But actually that will slip into 2022.   Then they need to vaccinate 70 million as sinovac is showing to be a waste of time. 

[3NUMBAS]

yellow shirts and those on the gravey train wont be afected ,their money will still be good

[ThailandRyan]

27 minutes ago, pissedoff2am said:

Can you post numbers of people in 20-50 age group hospitalized and who have died? You made the claim so please post sources.

DYOR I said but here is one of many articles:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-young-people-hospitalized-covid-19-chart/

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/01/992148299/covid-doesnt-discriminate-by-age-serious-cases-on-the-rise-in-younger-adults

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-isnt-just-dangerous-for-older-adults

Nearly 40% of Those Hospitalized for COVID-19 Are Under 55hare on Pinterest

 

 

Enjoy I gave you three to read.

Edited July 23, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[J Town]

5 minutes ago, Elkski said:

It's no pleasure watching this ski mo disaster unfold from my safe home in the USA.  I can't imagine how it is for you expats stuck in the thick of it.

<snip>

It's dismal. I heard an apt description not long ago - languishing. 

[Rimmer]

troll post removed

[BangkokReady]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

heavy wooden ledgers

Wooden or wooden bound?

[BangkokReady]

4 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Kind of Stalin-esque...."One death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic"

 

Of course Stalin was a psychopath and incapable of empathy.

Was he wrong though?  We see news of various numbers of deaths in the news every day, but they don't seem to hit as hard as learning of a particular person who died.

 

I think the problem is that numbers are kind of dehumanising and too numerous to grieve for properly, whereas a name, a career, gender, age, the exact circumstances of death, the family members left behind, and so on, tend to have a little more of an emotional impact.

[Jack Hammer]

10 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

You'll hate Thai conservative and puritanical values even more then. Thailand is a deeply conservative society even moreso than the West.

 

Trafficking and force is a huge part of the sex-for-sale industry which is why it is so big here. 

 

They are very good at hiding it from naïve foreigners though, it's almost an art.

True.   Bar girls are treated unfairly by their employers. A “bar fine” that is required to take a lady from the bar is “pimp money”   If a bar girl meets up with a guy and decides to leave that form of employment “bond “ money has to be paid. Modern day slave labour

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

DYOR I said but here is one of many articles:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-young-people-hospitalized-covid-19-chart/

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/01/992148299/covid-doesnt-discriminate-by-age-serious-cases-on-the-rise-in-younger-adults

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-isnt-just-dangerous-for-older-adults

Nearly 40% of Those Hospitalized for COVID-19 Are Under 55hare on Pinterest

 

 

Enjoy I gave you three to read.

From what I hear on the news those fit and healthy youngsters who are hospitalised tend to be discharged pretty quickly. There's no denying the vulnerable groups are the ones most at risk from serious illness and death from Covid. There are exceptions of course. 

 

From your first link: 

Kasanagottu says evidence from around the world suggests that younger people without other health conditions — such as diabetes, kidney disease, or heart failure — tend to do well even if they develop COVID-19.

 

[bert bloggs]

13 hours ago, itsari said:

Interesting indicator of the Thai economy . Even more when the pawn shop business is in demand more than the debt crises in 1997 .

How the banks are surviving baffles me . Bangkok bank posted a 14 billion profit in the first quarter of 2021 . I believe they are sitting on so called non performing loans with payment holidays when in reality they should be written off . Then you would see a different picture .

Your right about the banks,on our estate a reposesed house was up for 29 million ,its been empty now for 4 yrs except for the family looking after it,the other day i just thought i would ring see how much it was now Well 15 million,when i said i could not afford it,i was told they would drop the price,i wonder how many properties are they stuck with

[joecoolfrog]

13 hours ago, Brickbat said:

Necessity is the mother of invention. Maybe they’ll learn to be of more value than be bar girls or doing massage . They are so big on hope and luck 

I would say the groups you mention offer far more value than the military buffoons who have wrecked the country.

[Joinaman]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So the virus itself is not a threat, and people are not filling up the hospitals because they don't have covid. Additionally, opening up the country as you subscribe to will not add an even bigger burden on the medical staff or facilities in your view? Do you really believe this?, Can you please tell us more as maybe we can all learn from your scientific evidence.

people with covid are only filling up hospitals due the the way they are forced to isolate in the hospital, instead of elsewhere. Very few of the people who tested positive actually have symptoms requiring hospital treatment 

Deaths to date 3,673 ? out of how many, 69 million ?

So not really deadly is it, compared to the many other ways people die in Thailand

If it wasn't for the media hype , most people would never have heard of this "deadly" virus in Thailand 

[joecoolfrog]

9 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Indeed it is. One of the paradoxes of Thailand. Once you step out of the bubbles of Pattaya and other tourist destinations you find a deeply conservative culture. The clothes on the young may still be skimpy but holding hands or kissing in public, even in private but in front of other family members, who are always around at home, is just not acceptable. The numerous cheap  " love" motels and resorts are there for a reason.

Surely the sheer volume of prostitutes , brothels and short time hotels , show conservatism is purely a facade.

[joecoolfrog]

17 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

people with covid are only filling up hospitals due the the way they are forced to isolate in the hospital, instead of elsewhere. Very few of the people who tested positive actually have symptoms requiring hospital treatment 

Deaths to date 3,673 ? out of how many, 69 million ?

So not really deadly is it, compared to the many other ways people die in Thailand

If it wasn't for the media hype , most people would never have heard of this "deadly" virus in Thailand 

The virus so far has accounted for over 4 million people officially and God only knows how many other deaths have not been recorded.

South East Asia is now catching up with Europe and the Americas , care of the latest mutations and complacent governments.

Thailand will get its fair share of fatalities , if not it will be pure luck, Then we have inumerable cases of ' long covid ' , people who survive but are subject to potentially life long major health issues.

And amongst all this , you dont consider the virus to be deadly .

Frankly you must be insane to think in that manner.

 

[DoctorB]

3 hours ago, Elkski said:

It's no pleasure watching this ski mo disaster unfold from my safe home in the USA.  I can't imagine how it is for you expats stuck in the thick of it.  I always was in disbelief that Thailand avoided the first wave.  I have read where a similar virus 20-25k years ago may have  given some Asian people protection from covid.  Easy to find this info if you look. But with this Delta mutation all protection see useless.   I predicted 5000 cases a day before songkran. It just took longer than I thought it would but I thought then and still think limited testing is limiting the real case numbers.  

 

What other country besides India, and China had people dying at home and in the streets from covid?  Not a real good list to be on.  I always said Thailand looked like a 3rd World country to me since I began my 11 visits in 2016.  A few fancy malls meant nothing to me.  

The only bright thing I can imagine is that Thailand thug government is so late to the vaccine buying game they should be specifying that they get the latest mRNA recipe and they may end up first in line for an updated recipe that can whip Delta and Lambda and a few others that will pop up by late 2022.   When they say pfizer in 4th quarter they mean maybe Iate December.  But actually that will slip into 2022.   Then they need to vaccinate 70 million as sinovac is showing to be a waste of time. 

The UK is just emerging from a 483 day rolling set of on /off lockdowns and restrictions. Already ' leading experts' are prophesying a further round of restrictive measures. I would rather be in a Thai 'sandboxl' any day if only it weren't so complicated to ensure entry. Believe me, if only Thailand were able to ease up a little, those of us who love and respect the country and its people would be back and ready to put money into the economy.

 

 

 

[aboctok]

14 hours ago, dallen52 said:

Probably been eaten.

 

A huge number of cats and dogs have disappeared around the villages.

(Seriously)

I converted (temporarily) to the local insanity just so I'd be eligible to pray that someone comes and disappears the four screaming mutts (24/7) that live opposite. The snorting pigs next door are gone, must be the half a kilo of amulets I'm wearing.

[The Cipher]

7 hours ago, harleyclarkey said:

They alone are the ones responsible for further impoverishing hundreds, even thousands, of millions into dire straits. And they don't care a toss.

Got a source for this, champ?

[The Cipher]

9 hours ago, Walker88 said:

That is a death rate of 2.15%, not the .02% figure you quote.  Thus the actual survival rate is 97.85%. *John Hopkins takes a country's 'official' figure, so does not include the 5,000,000 total of deaths in India now being reported by several groups studying data in India. The death rate may well be closer to 4% worldwide.

I know we've discussed this a couple of times before, but I do feel the need to chime in and point out that selectively considering undercounted deaths without regard for undercounted cases is unfair.

 

As you have correctly pointed out on multiple occasions, Covid's base case outcome of asymptomatic is one of it's unique advantages when it comes to spreading through a population. Accordingly, we'd expect that however undercounted you think deaths are, cases would be even more drastically undercounted. Not every death will be tested for Covid, but it's way easier to track deaths than asymptomatic infections and subsequent recoveries.

 

As evidence, here's a formal scientific meta analysis published last September that suggests that Covid has a broad case fatality rate (CFR) of 0.68% That being said, multiple studies seem to have reached different conclusions, with CFRs ranging from ~0.5% to ~2%. The situation continues to evolve, but conjecture for a 4% CFR is feels slightly dishonest at this time.

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, harleyclarkey said:

?????. Really?

It is the rich Chinese Communist Government members who have made the world what it is today. A fearful virus filled world that has taken over 4 million lives.

 

They alone are the ones responsible for further impoverishing hundreds, even thousands, of millions into dire straits. And they don't care a toss.

 

They now refuse to cooperate with the WHO into the virus origins. If they are innocent surely they would be delighted to cooperate and clear their rotten name.

 

Nobody else but the ruling Chinese are responsible. 

So if Thailand never got vaccines, that would be the fault of the Chinese Govt?

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

I know we've discussed this a couple of times before, but I do feel the need to chime in and point out that selectively considering undercounted deaths without regard for undercounted cases is unfair.

 

As you have correctly pointed out on multiple occasions, Covid's base case outcome of asymptomatic is one of it's unique advantages when it comes to spreading through a population. Accordingly, we'd expect that however undercounted you think deaths are, cases would be even more drastically undercounted. Not every death will be tested for Covid, but it's way easier to track deaths than asymptomatic infections and subsequent recoveries.

 

As evidence, here's a formal scientific meta analysis published last September that suggests that Covid has a broad case fatality rate (CFR) of 0.68% That being said, multiple studies seem to have reached different conclusions, with CFRs ranging from ~0.5% to ~2%. The situation continues to evolve, but conjecture for a 4% CFR is feels slightly dishonest at this time.

It also depends on the country. A poor nation with little or nonexistent medical care most likely will do worse than a wealthy nation with a good public health system. Peru which is a middle income nation with a not great public health system had a mortality rate 8 times that of developed nations.

Covid-19: Peru’s official death toll triples to become world’s highest

Peru has revised its official death toll in the covid-19 pandemic from 69 342 to 185 380, after a scientific review of medical records ordered by the government. The new figure means that Peru has had 5551 covid deaths per million population, proportionally the worst official toll in the world...

More than 0.5% of Peru’s people have died from covid-19, a toll worse than that recorded by the UK in the 1918-20 “Spanish” influenza pandemic.

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1442

Edited July 23, 2021 by placeholder

[kiwikeith]

19 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

At recovering their money how? By taking the loan collateral? Or in hiring thugs to torment the families? Just  qyestions.

If you can't pay back they take the collateral, was thinking about that the other day, most Thais will have lost their gold. Then the bikes and cars will follow. 

Then those that have mortgages will be in trouble, it's sad. 

Don't know what is going on at present as tried to submit a COE online to get a friend back and the embassy Webb site is sending a#400 can not transfer data try again. 

Ive seen a other posts having the same problem. 

Maybe Thailand is closed now, I sent a email to get an answer about this and they haven't replied????? 

[jacob29]

17 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

This is especially true of the go-go dancers in places like Cowboy, Nana etc. All owe money and the Indian money lenders can be seen nightly going on their collections, ledger in hand.

A bit ridiculous to say all owe money. I've known a good number of girls for years, and heard a lot of stories. The times debt grievances have been discussed, it has always been family and relatives buying things they couldn't afford.. then everyone expecting the breadwinner to bail them out. No Indian loan sharks. No doubt they exist, but not all, and I highly doubt it's a majority in the foreign facing market. There isn't even a strong motivation to lie about it, why would a girl try to hide it? They hardly care if a farang knows about it. If anything they would be honest about it as a hook to get more money.

 

I don't doubt there are places rife with problems, just like there are very questionable work conditions for fishermen. That I eat seafood doesn't make me naive or immune from recognising the dark side of the seafood industry.