Owner of condo asking for ~4 months of rent in damages after 1.3 years of renting - condo is in mint condition - looking for help

[somtime]

Hello friends, 

I've been lurking on this forum for over 8 years and found much help, guidance and advice.
In all my time in the Kingdom, I've never had to actually create a post, but this situation has struck a wrong chord with me. 

 

I've been living in a condo in central Bangkok for 1.3 years now and moved out at the beginning of this month. 
The contract was actually due in a few months from now, but I agreed with the owner to move out early, losing 1 of 2 month deposit. All fine, no issues.

However, when the owner checked the place, they said it was "worse than expected". I'll refrain from posting pictures and go into details, but suffice to say the place was left in mint condition, with usual wear and tear, and small damages on wood. Ever since, due to the demands and conversation had, the relationship has soured beyond repair.

 

The owner sent over a handwritten summary of charges for all repairs, with small details in Thai, and some references to carpenters, replacement companies etc. 

The total sum of damages amounts to a full renovation: close to 4 months of rent. 
Amounts are nice and rounded to hundreds and thousands (of course), and accompanied by contacts of carpenters and conversations with them where she inflates the damages and the situation in Thai. Conversations are out of context, and I suspect the owner has used the carpenters many times.
The owner refuses other carpenters to fix up her place because "she doesn't trust anyone else with her wood".

 

Key to point out is that I signed a contract stating I'm legally liable for damages beyond my security deposit, if it's considered non regular wear and tear.

Actions I'm considering:
1/ Walk away, block on chat/go radio silent, let her walk away with the deposit, and let the situation simmer
2/ Renegotiate, get quotes from other carpenters, replacements etc. and hopefully reach some in between outcome
3/ Pay the price, hard lesson learned and extremely bitter pill to swallow

Assuming I would like to avoid to pay as much as possible, while also avoiding any risk for legal proceedings, is there anything you would advice, based on experience of hearsay? I'm leaning towards the first action but I don't know what would be the possible outcomes.

Thank you for any help, advice, or experience offered, or anything you can share. 
I've heard of the vague statistic of 25% of foreign tenants not getting their deposit here, but never expected to land in a significantly worse situation myself..

Regards,
Somtime

[big dendrobenaes]

go see a very good ENGLISH speking lawyer......

[2long]

You're leaving early, and you admit there's wear and tear, but you won't attach pictures.

Before and after pictures would be necessary.

 

Someone once ran into the back of my car, and HE said it's only a little scratch. I said that there was no damage to the bumper before you ran into me. It's a bit like that, isn't it?

 

In any case, you will not win, and the more you rile up a local (who obviously has money) the worse things will become. Smile, be courteous and get away as quickly and cheaply as you can, but be nice even if you don't mean it.

[somtime]

3 minutes ago, 2long said:

You're leaving early, and you admit there's wear and tear, but you won't attach pictures.

Before and after pictures would be necessary.

 

Someone once ran into the back of my car, and HE said it's only a little scratch. I said that there was no damage to the bumper before you ran into me. It's a bit like that, isn't it?

 

In any case, you will not win, and the more you rile up a local (who obviously has money) the worse things will become. Smile, be courteous and get away as quickly and cheaply as you can, but be nice even if you don't mean it.

Thank you for the response @2long, I appreciate it. 
I understand the he say/she say part of it but for the purpose of the post, I'd rather not go into the details. 

Suffice it to say that objectively if I would show the pictures or a video of the place, most people would agree, but I understand this still does not convince you. 

Noted on the cannot win part.

[somtime]

5 minutes ago, big dendrobenaes said:

go see a very good ENGLISH speking lawyer......

Thank you, any particular advice or won cases here? Truly weighing all odds and outcomes as objectively as I can

[big dendrobenaes]

Just now, somtime said:

Thank you, any particular advice or won cases here? Truly weighing all odds and outcomes as objectively as I can

try contacting Magna Carta......south pattaya road....ask for Tony Justice

[scubascuba3]

If the landlord is correct and you have caused excess damage then pay up, if you haven't then walk away. Photos should prove your case.

 

Bad tenants are a PITA

[JeffersLos]

25 minutes ago, somtime said:

Walk away

This one. 

[Doctor Tom]

Walk away.  

[Doctor Tom]

3 minutes ago, big dendrobenaes said:

try contacting Magna Carta......south pattaya road....ask for Tony Justice

That will cost you far more than than if you paid the guy off. Never, ever go near any lawyer unless you need one to stay out of jail. 

[Rampant Rabbit]

Do  it the Thai  way just run away.

Having said that Ive often found when people say "mint"  its a  pile of carck

[Airalee]

20 minutes ago, somtime said:

mint condition, with usual wear and tear, and small damages on wood

Without photos, this thread means nothing.  
 

Mint is mint.  

 

Wear and tear is what exactly?  One persons “wear and tear” is another persons “lives like a slovenly pig”

 

 What kind of “small damage” did you do to the wood?  What kind of wood?  Wood floors?  Wood walls?  

 

What is 4 months rent?  You think 4 months rent would “amounts to a full renovation”?

 

Do you have relationships with contractors/carpenters here?  Do you know how hard it is to find a good one?  If you found one, would you let a tenant (if you owned the place) hire just any somchai to come in and screw it up even worse?

 

Well…good luck.

[Doctor Tom]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Bad tenants are a PITA

There are very many bad landlords here, just waiting to rip you off and keep the deposit, on no evidence. There is little to no protection for tenants here. If you know that you have been fair and reasonable then walk away. 

[BangkokAlan]

What was the process of handing the condo back? there would normally have been a check on leaving day by both parties so this type of issue cant happen. 

[Jingthing]

That's difficult. 

Here's an idea.

Offer him one third of what he's asking and say take it or leave it within three days.

It probably won't work but if you try, he might assume you're going to walk without giving him anything if he says no, so he might. Or he might say, OK 50 percent.

[steven100]

well it's tough times now and she wants money, and she don't care how she makes it .......   so it sounds a bit like she is trying to put one over you because you came across as very soft or naive ...      and she's praying that you'll fold and pay up.   

You won't win ..... so if you didn't damage the place and you did leave it in good condition and it is just wear & tear on the furniture,    then I would leave in the dead of the night and never look back. 

The other options will either turn into a nightmare or a money pit. 

[NanLaew]

He said, she said.

 

I'll check back around page 3 of this thread.

[BritManToo]

Walk away, no forwarding address, don't respond to any calls or emails.

[tomyami]

Have handed condos back about 6 condos got dep 50% of the time Never left damage left the cleaning to agent/ower accept the charge no problem.

The deposit is theres and that it, it covers general wear and tear unless you have left something deliberately broken.

Leaving a contract early might have <deleted> them off they keep the deposit thats it, but trying to get some back with made up damage is just malicous.

Move on, lucky new LL wont insist on a ref as the do in the west.

[Golden Triangle]

The trouble is that his landlady can just pay a small sum to an immigration officer to find out his new address, TM30 ???? unless of course he is leaving  the country, which means a police summons or raid on his new gaff.

[impulse]

59 minutes ago, somtime said:

the place was left in mint condition, with usual wear and tear, and small damages on wood.

Sounds like Abe Lincoln leaving the Ford Theater that night.  Mint condition with the usual age related wear and tear, impeccably dressed, with just a little damage.

 

[Maha Sarakham]

It really depends.  Without seeing the damages, we are all just assuming things.  I would just walk away and go radio silent if I felt like the landlord was trying to take advantage of me.  It sounds like they are upset you moved out early and are trying to recoup losses during a time when it is unlikely he/she will find another renter.

 

I would never 'walk out' normally, but if someone is clearly trying to scam me, I would just disappear off the face of the planet overnight.

[VocalNeal]

The OP has admitted damage to wood. What he thinks is small may not seem that way to the landlady. She wants the money you should have paid if you maintained the original period. As she probably won't be able to let it for a while?

[somtime]

Thanks everyone for the comments, whether good, bad, or focusing on the wording. All useful for sure.
Please take "mint" with a grain of salt indeed, post written clearly with some one-sided emotions lingering. I won't edit the post or add images, but instead imagine I wrote "in a similar state as when I moved in" and that is the case, purely for the objective of the post. I will take it all with me and decide what to do

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, somtime said:

However, when the owner checked the place, they said it was "worse than expected". I'll refrain from posting pictures and go into details, but suffice to say the place was left in mint condition, with usual wear and tear, and small damages on wood. Ever since, due to the demands and conversation had, the relationship has soured beyond repair.

You've gone to a lot of trouble to post a lot of details, yet you don't want to post any photos of your "small damages to wood".

 

I've never damaged wood in my rented apartments in 15 years, but what is this "small damages (plural) to wood"? That's a very subjective assessment of damages... yet you claim the condition is "mint". Doesn't make sense in light of "small damages to wood". Some wood is very expensive. Some owners are very fussy and want a place looking like it did when you walked in, and if it doesn't, you pay to make it like new again. Your idea of "acceptable wear and tear and the landlord's differ, which is fair enough. 

 

If 4 month's rent amounts to hundreds of thousands of baht, you must be living in a very expensive apartment. If the owner is rich, he is probably fussier than your average landlord of a cheap apartment.

[simon43]

Can you not sue the landlord for hurting your feelings?  Oh wait - this is Thailand, not the USA!

[bbabythai]

41 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

The trouble is that his landlady can just pay a small sum to an immigration officer to find out his new address, TM30 ???? unless of course he is leaving  the country, which means a police summons or raid on his new gaff.

no one I know does TM30s. 

[matchar]

Too many landlords on this forum and most of them haven't bothered to read your post properly.

 

1 month's rent should be plenty to cover any wear and tear so if you haven't damaged anything then just walk away.

 

I certainly wouldn't pay anything voluntarily, likely she is just hoping you are a pushover and will give in easily to her demands. In the very unlikely worst case scenario she took it to court then it would be a civil matter so no police involved and you would easily be able to reach a settlement.

[Peterw42]

"Damage to some wood" is a bit of a throw away comment.

It could be minor or it could be a major repair. A scratch in a wooden floor may need to be buffed out or a rare hardwood bench may need to be sanded back and resurfaced. 

4 Months of rent could be as low as 20k, or 200k

 

Not being clear on what's damaged and how much to repair, its a bit hard to offer advice.

 

[Airalee]

51 minutes ago, matchar said:

Too many landlords on this forum and most of them haven't bothered to read your post properly.

 

1 month's rent should be plenty to cover any wear and tear so if you haven't damaged anything then just walk away.

It appears that you didn’t read his post properly.  He already admitted to minor (whatever minor means) damage on the wood but wouldn’t (for whatever reason) go into any detail about it.