Pandemic of the unvaccinated????

[cdemundo]

3 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Ok your right about everything you're the the winner, yay- Fellow members please give the is guy is trophy. 

There is no such thing paid propaganda on mainstream media - N O means NO.  Only science denialists of all stripes would claim such a thing.  

The vaccine is 100% safe and effective and so are all the boosters - They are only going to get better and better as they get retooled with every new variant that comes out. Get the Pfizer, that's the best one. With Johnson & Johnson you only need one shot! Isn't that that amazing? Moderna is not here yet, but they say that one is good too! But don't get the Chinese stuff, it's yucky.  Once your fully vaccinated, they'll put your vaccine status on a really cool app which you can then use to get into restaurants, sports events, and even the gym!  It won't even matter if your infected with Covid you'll still be able to get it!  No one will know. Only the stupid unvaxxed idiots will need to test if they want to do certain things hahaha 

There nothing wrong inoculating young children with a vaccine that doesn't prevent or cure - Let's hope the government uses their power to enforce mandatory vaccines on all healthy children around the world.  Let's let the government make the health decisions for our children. 

And in no way believe what all these conspiracy theory virologist, Immunologist, vaccine developers, medical microbiologist, IV league medical professors, pulmonary medical specialists. aniti-covid vaxxers / antivaxxers science denialist are saying- They are all idiots every last one of them. 

I hope I didn't forget anything you taught me today? 

 

You have said that thousands of qualified people disagree with the narrative that you doubt in the MSM.

First, I am skeptical. Could you find dozens? Hundreds? surely not thousands.

More important, there are no MDs involved in treatment of hospitalized COVID patients that are COVID vaccine skeptics.

I will cite two articles that support my contention, so hold your horses on "America's Frontline Doctors", cuz they are not.

 

"No Evidence That Doctor Group in Viral Video Got Near COVID 'Front Lines'

— Who are the physicians behind America's Frontline Doctors?"

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90533

 

"Op-Ed: As a doctor in a COVID unit, I’m running out of compassion for the unvaccinated. Get the shot"

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-08-17/vaccinated-covid-doctor-shot

 

Finally from an expert that everyone knows and trusts,  (sarcasm alert kids)

"Howard Stern to anti-vaxxers: 'You had the cure and you wouldn't take it'"

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/10/entertainment/howard-stern-vaccine-comments/index.html

 

"When are we gonna stop putting up with the idiots in this country and just say it's mandatory to get vaccinated? F--- 'em. F--- their freedom. I want my freedom to live," he said. "I want to get out of the house already. I want to go next door and play chess. I want to go take some pictures. This is bull----."

 

Posts in these threads are largely for entertainment and I know it is a flaw in my character that makes me continue to post, conspiracy theorists can't be convinced, but I know that a few who are the fence do exist.

As Ringo says "Peace and Love." (This is actually one of the rare forums where some are too old to know who Ringo is.)

[cdemundo]

14 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

And of course that's exactly what they want you to believe. 

No.

I read the post re: Marek's disease.

Whoever posted it, if they read it, did not understand it.

 

The salient point was that a variety of Marek's was very deadly and killed it's victims before they could transmit the disease to others. An elementary knowledge of parasites of any kind includes knowing that a parasitic organism that kills its host too rapidly is not viable. Specifically, a virus that  kills it's host before it can transmit the infection to others is not viable.

 

That does not apply to COVID which we know does not kill it's host before the host can infect others.

Those who keep quoting Marek's disease either don't understand this or are ignoring the fact that Marek's disease is not relevant to COVID.

 

This is clear from reading the post that those who invoke Marek's are referring to; that is the "they" that want us to believe something.

[frantick]

11 hours ago, cdemundo said:

You have said that thousands of qualified people disagree with the narrative that you doubt in the MSM.

First, I am skeptical. Could you find dozens? Hundreds? surely not thousands.

More important, there are no MDs involved in treatment of hospitalized COVID patients that are COVID vaccine skeptics.

I will cite two articles that support my contention, so hold your horses on "America's Frontline Doctors", cuz they are not.

 

"No Evidence That Doctor Group in Viral Video Got Near COVID 'Front Lines'

— Who are the physicians behind America's Frontline Doctors?"

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90533

 

"Op-Ed: As a doctor in a COVID unit, I’m running out of compassion for the unvaccinated. Get the shot"

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-08-17/vaccinated-covid-doctor-shot

 

Finally from an expert that everyone knows and trusts,  (sarcasm alert kids)

"Howard Stern to anti-vaxxers: 'You had the cure and you wouldn't take it'"

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/10/entertainment/howard-stern-vaccine-comments/index.html

 

"When are we gonna stop putting up with the idiots in this country and just say it's mandatory to get vaccinated? F--- 'em. F--- their freedom. I want my freedom to live," he said. "I want to get out of the house already. I want to go next door and play chess. I want to go take some pictures. This is bull----."

 

Posts in these threads are largely for entertainment and I know it is a flaw in my character that makes me continue to post, conspiracy theorists can't be convinced, but I know that a few who are the fence do exist.

As Ringo says "Peace and Love." (This is actually one of the rare forums where some are too old to know who Ringo is.)

Stern is a known germaphobic, which just validates that people are scared for themselves, not others as they profess to be.

Edited September 12, 2021 by frantick

[cdemundo]

44 minutes ago, frantick said:

Stern is a known germaphobic, which just validates that people are scared for themselves, not others as they profess to be.

Howard was introduced it Amy post because he was willing to say what most talk around.

 

"When are we gonna stop putting up with the idiots in this country and just say it's mandatory to get vaccinated? F--- 'em. F--- their freedom. I want my freedom to live," he said. "I want to get out of the house already. I want to go next door and play chess. I want to go take some pictures. This is bull----."

 

So Stern makes no bones about being concerned only for himself.

Where does he profess to be concerned for others?

 

"which just validates that people are scared for themselves,"

So if Howard Stern is motivated by fear for himself, that just validates that all people are scared for themselves.

Brilliant as usual.

Kinda like "Socrates is a man"

"All men are mortal"

"Socrates is mortal"

"therefore all men are Socrates"

 

[placeholder]

15 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Ok your right about everything you're the the winner, yay- Fellow members please give the is guy is trophy. 

There is no such thing paid propaganda on mainstream media - N O means NO.  Only science denialists of all stripes would claim such a thing.  

The vaccine is 100% safe and effective and so are all the boosters - They are only going to get better and better as they get retooled with every new variant that comes out. Get the Pfizer, that's the best one. With Johnson & Johnson you only need one shot! Isn't that that amazing? Moderna is not here yet, but they say that one is good too! But don't get the Chinese stuff, it's yucky.  Once your fully vaccinated, they'll put your vaccine status on a really cool app which you can then use to get into restaurants, sports events, and even the gym!  It won't even matter if your infected with Covid you'll still be able to get it!  No one will know. Only the stupid unvaxxed idiots will need to test if they want to do certain things hahaha 

There nothing wrong inoculating young children with a vaccine that doesn't prevent or cure - Let's hope the government uses their power to enforce mandatory vaccines on all healthy children around the world.  Let's let the government make the health decisions for our children. 

And in no way believe what all these conspiracy theory virologist, Immunologist, vaccine developers, medical microbiologist, IV league medical professors, pulmonary medical specialists. aniti-covid vaxxers / antivaxxers science denialist are saying- They are all idiots every last one of them. 

I hope I didn't forget anything you taught me today? 

 

I hope you don't beat up on yourself too much about losing. It wasn't really a fair fight. After all a very powerful ally on my side: reality.

 

As for this "I hope I didn't forget anything you taught me today?", at first I felt terribly guilty. As your teacher, I would have to give you an "F" based on what you've written here and elsewhere since it has nothing to do with what I was teaching. And I thought, given my failure to educate you, maybe I deserved an "F" too. But I thought about it some more, and  after lots of pondering, I suspect that you weren't in any of my classes at all. 

 

After all, one of the most important ideas I propound is that there are rarely public health episodes where 100% is attainable. Or where the word "never" should be used. Certainly I never claimed that any of the covid vaccines is 100% safe. What you don't seem to understand, despite my best efforts, is the issue of probability.  The CDC just released a report that the unvaccinated are 5 times as likely to contract covid as are the vaccinated. 

CDC: Unvaccinated 5 times more likely to get COVID-19

Today in Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published new data from Los Angeles County collected from May to July, which show unvaccinated people were 5 times more likely to get COVID-19 than vaccinated peers and 29 times more likely to be hospitalized for their infections...

"The data reminds us that if you are not vaccinated you are the highest at risk," said Walensky. The study included analysis of the 43,127 SARS-CoV-2 infections in residents of Los Angeles County, California, of which 10,895 (25.3%) were in fully vaccinated persons, 1,431 (3.3%) were in partially vaccinated persons, and 30,801 (71.4%) were in unvaccinated persons.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/cdc-unvaccinated-5-times-more-likely-get-covid-19

 

This doesn't mean that no one who is vaccinated will be infected with covid. They're just a lot less likely to be infected. 

 

And you still seem not to understand the relationship of governmental authority in relation to vaccination of children if the following is any indication. "Let's let the government make the health decisions for our children." Governments have been mandating vaccinations for children for decades.

 

And apparently you've learned nothing about citing reliable sources. You claim that there is a massive number of knowledgeable people who question the value of the covid vaccine. Yet you chose to cite a source who was clearly either incompetent or dishonest in his presentation of his case. Also, in my courses, we don't accept videos as evidence. Fact-checking is a lot more difficult and time consuming.

 

Anyway, in closing, I have to reiterate my doubts about you having received my tutelage. I suspect that you were really attending an agricultural school where you learned how to cherry-pick.

 

[Ryan754326]

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Howard was introduced it Amy post because he was willing to say what most talk around.

 

"When are we gonna stop putting up with the idiots in this country and just say it's mandatory to get vaccinated? F--- 'em. F--- their freedom. I want my freedom to live," he said. "I want to get out of the house already. I want to go next door and play chess. I want to go take some pictures. This is bull----."

 

So Stern makes no bones about being concerned only for himself.

Where does he profess to be concerned for others?

 

"which just validates that people are scared for themselves,"

So if Howard Stern is motivated by fear for himself, that just validates that all people are scared for themselves.

Brilliant as usual.

Kinda like "Socrates is a man"

"All men are mortal"

"Socrates is mortal"

"therefore all men are Socrates"

 

Has Howard Stern been vaccinated? If so, what is he worried about? 
 

There’s never going to be a 100% guarantee of safety against covid, even if every human on earth is vaccinated, but your chances of surviving are very good if you’ve had the jab, so why not just let those who refuse it take their chances with their own lives?

[i84teen]

The pandemic is not slowing down despite high vaccination rates and the poor transmission prevention afforded by vaccines is likely to blame.

 

The 7 day covid infection rate is 4 times higher (Sept 5, 2021) than it was a year ago and NOBODY was vaccinated yet 75% of eligible people have a least one vaccine dose now! Massive increase in covid infections despite more than half the country being fully vaccinated. This is a pandemic of the vaccinated as the data would imply, since the vaccine has done nothing to slow the spread.

Don't like this or believe it....check it out. I have more data, and links.

Oxford's Our World in Data

Edited September 12, 2021 by i84teen

[3NUMBAS]

in the uk     3/4 of folks with covid cases are unvacinated hence the     big numbers every day

[ozimoron]

51 minutes ago, i84teen said:

The pandemic is not slowing down despite high vaccination rates and the poor transmission prevention afforded by vaccines is likely to blame.

 

The 7 day covid infection rate is 4 times higher (Sept 5, 2021) than it was a year ago and NOBODY was vaccinated yet 75% of eligible people have a least one vaccine dose now! Massive increase in covid infections despite more than half the country being fully vaccinated. This is a pandemic of the vaccinated as the data would imply, since the vaccine has done nothing to slow the spread.

Don't like this or believe it....check it out. I have more data, and links.

Oxford's Our World in Data

The vaccines are known to reduce infections (transmission) significantly. Given this fact it is statistically impossible that "the vaccine has done nothing to slow the spread".

 

You may have data but you don't seem to have information. What is different now than last year is the delta variant, a far more infectious variant than what was prevalent at that time. The main reason we have the delta variant is that a lack of lock downs and social distancing increased the likely mutation rate of the then prevalent variant.

[Ryan754326]

25 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

in the uk     3/4 of folks with covid cases are unvacinated hence the     big numbers every day

The UK is claiming that 95% of the population already has antibodies, so with the Delta variant tearing through the rest, the entire population should either be immune or dead in no time. 
But… they are reporting almost 40,000 cases per day, so if 3/4 of those are unvaccinated, wouldn’t that mean almost 10,000 of those are breakthrough cases? 

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, i84teen said:

The pandemic is not slowing down despite high vaccination rates and the poor transmission prevention afforded by vaccines is likely to blame.

 

The 7 day covid infection rate is 4 times higher (Sept 5, 2021) than it was a year ago and NOBODY was vaccinated yet 75% of eligible people have a least one vaccine dose now! Massive increase in covid infections despite more than half the country being fully vaccinated. This is a pandemic of the vaccinated as the data would imply, since the vaccine has done nothing to slow the spread.

Don't like this or believe it....check it out. I have more data, and links.

Oxford's Our World in Data

If overall hospitalization and fatality rate was the same as those rates among the vaccinated.... it probably would no longer be considered a pandemic.   Unfortunately the Delta variant is ravaging the unvaccinated so those overall rates are still high.

 

You are comparing the current rate of infection with the pre-Delta rate of infection.  The infection rates are markedly higher for Delta.  Haven't you heard?

[Jeffr2]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:14 AM, lucky2008 said:

What makes you think that people who don't want to take the vaccines are anti-vaxxers? The majority of us are very from that.

 

I have personally gotten every vaccine known to man. My children have had all required vaccines since birth. But let's get one thing straight, never have any of my kids been forced to inject something into their bodies without my approval.   

You say I get my information from unqualified people but that's not true.  There are thousands of professionals that have spoken out about what happening only to be shunned and ostracized by their peers for doing so. We are talking about people who have literally dedicated their entire life to science. Virologist, immunologist, vaccine developers, medical microbiologist, IV league medical professors, pulmonary medical specialists, and the list goes on. Are all these people quacks and unqualified to share their medical opinions? 

Please, be so kind and tell us who are the medical "experts" we should be following. Is it Fauci and his wife Christine? Rochelle Walensky, Albert Boulra, Alex Gorsky, Tal Zacks, or Soumya Swaminathan? Are these the "experts" you are referring to? 

Maybe we should keep replying on Google and fact checkers to give us all the answers? 





 

What? Ummm. Those who don't want the vaccine ARE anti vaxxers.  LOL

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

Has Howard Stern been vaccinated? If so, what is he worried about? 
 

There’s never going to be a 100% guarantee of safety against covid, even if every human on earth is vaccinated, but your chances of surviving are very good if you’ve had the jab, so why not just let those who refuse it take their chances with their own lives?

Because we'll never get through this until more are vaccinated! They are ruining our lives. The ones who got jabbed for not just themselves. But all of society. Come on...

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, i84teen said:

The pandemic is not slowing down despite high vaccination rates and the poor transmission prevention afforded by vaccines is likely to blame.

 

The 7 day covid infection rate is 4 times higher (Sept 5, 2021) than it was a year ago and NOBODY was vaccinated yet 75% of eligible people have a least one vaccine dose now! Massive increase in covid infections despite more than half the country being fully vaccinated. This is a pandemic of the vaccinated as the data would imply, since the vaccine has done nothing to slow the spread.

Don't like this or believe it....check it out. I have more data, and links.

Oxford's Our World in Data

Ummm....keep up. The virus is mutating. I sure hope you are aware of this. Seems not.

[i84teen]

7 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Ummm....keep up. The virus is mutating. I sure hope you are aware of this. Seems not.

Of course, it's a pandemic of the mutations now which the vaccine is of little use. 555.

Have a look at the numbers in countries like Indonesia and make your case for delta and many other countries with surging covid infection despite high vaccine rates.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, i84teen said:

Of course, it's a pandemic of the mutations now which the vaccine is of little use. 555.

Have a look at the numbers in countries like Indonesia and make your case for delta and many other countries with surging covid infection despite high vaccine rates.

Stop posting misinformation! The vaccine is still highly effective.

 

Study the vaccine rates closely. Most are for ELEGIBLE people. Not the entire population. Focus on the latter.

 

Why are you so against this vaccine? Doesn't make sense.

[i84teen]

14 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Ummm....keep up. The virus is mutating. I sure hope you are aware of this. Seems not.

make a vaccine that works to prevent transmission. The natural immunity which is much higher, stronger, the vaccines are not working to stop the spread, if they are show me the numbers.

[i84teen]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Stop posting misinformation! The vaccine is still highly effective.

 

Study the vaccine rates closely. Most are for ELEGIBLE people. Not the entire population. Focus on the latter.

 

Why are you so against this vaccine? Doesn't make sense.

Apparently the vaccines have prophylactic properties but clearly the vaccines are not preventing infection as some people are ramming down your throat. And now u need additional (booster shots) to preserve the "waning" protection syndrome.

 

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, i84teen said:

make a vaccine that works to prevent transmission. The natural immunity which is much higher, stronger, the vaccines are not working to stop the spread, if they are show me the numbers.

Clueless. It's been widely reported natural immunity won't work. And millions would die trying.

 

You really need a better source for your news.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, i84teen said:

Apparently the vaccines have prophylactic properties but clearly the vaccines are not preventing infection as some people are ramming down your throat. And now u need additional (booster shots) to preserve the "waning" protection syndrome.

 

Stop trolling. Jeez.

[i84teen]

I am not really against the vaccine, I just don't think they are working so stellar as they want you to believe. If they did, infection rates might drop.

[sucit]

This is so simple. Just leave people alone.

 

It does not even matter if you think leaving others alone causes you problems. All rights cause problems for other people, depending on your outlook. That’s why they are rights, because the people getting hot and bothered don’t get to say <deleted> about it. 
 

So simple, you are vaxxed. You’re supposedly safe. Now leave other people the <deleted> alone. Cannot be simpler. 

[Jeffr2]

12 minutes ago, i84teen said:

I am not really against the vaccine, I just don't think they are working so stellar as they want you to believe. If they did, infection rates might drop.

The vaccine works. Spend more time with quality news sources and you'll find out.

 

Bizarre

[i84teen]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

The vaccine works. Spend more time with quality news sources and you'll find out.

 

Bizarre

Yes, i agree there seem to be prophylactic benefits, but no way in heck's name do they prevent infection.

If your covid vaccination prevented covid infection we would not be having this discussion and you would stop  stigmatizing the unvaccinated and you likely wouldn't give a rats asz if i or millions of others are vaxxed or not, or if we are recovered from covid. So if, the vaccine is effective and protects you, be happy and leave it at that.

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, i84teen said:

Yes, i agree there seem to be prophylactic benefits, but no way in heck's name do they prevent infection.

If your covid vaccination prevented covid infection we would not be having this discussion and you would stop  stigmatizing the unvaccinated and you likely wouldn't give a rats asz if i or millions of others are vaxxed or not, or if we are recovered from covid. So if, the vaccine is effective and protects you, be happy and leave it at that.

Jeez. It does prevent infection. Stop posting misinformation! You've got some strange opinions.

[rabas]

20 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Clueless. It's been widely reported natural immunity won't work. And millions would die trying.

 

You really need a better source for your news.

You need to see the recent Israel study on Delta.

 

SCIENCE: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine.

Bloomberg: Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot

(and more)

 

But the devil is in the details.  Israel had a large outbreak of UK-Alpha in Feb/March. Now they have a large Delta outbreak.  They drove the Alpha peak all the way to zero infections with a nationwide Pfizer campaign. Pfizer completely stopped Alpha in its tracks.

 

Now what they see is that people with natural immunity from the Alpha wave have much better protection against Delta infection vs those inoculated with Pfizer at the same time.

 

IOW, this is a special case and new science. They also said that people infected by other strains before the Alpha wave showed much less resistance to Delta.

 

It does not mean in any way that vaccines are not necessary. They are. If anything, it means more and better vaccines are needed

[Scott]

There is a lot of information which has not really been well vetted or understood.   The Israeli data is most likely accurate, but it doesn't take into account who got the vaccine and when.   And who got natural immunity through infection.   They are two very, very different groups, so it's a little like comparing apples and oranges.  

There is still a lot to learn about the virus, the vaccines and how they work and for how long.   Covid-19 is one of a number of coronavirus that have been discovered and studied.  About 40% of the people who catch a cold, do so because they have caught a coronavirus.  SARS is also a coronavirus as is MERS.   In spite of the rise of variants of concern, coronaviruses  have a low rate of mutation, at least as far as viruses go.  That means that vaccines are effective.   We got very lucky with vaccines with such a high efficacy.  The mRNA technology was used to produce an HIV vaccine, but the HIV virus is a very fast mutating virus, so a vaccine has not proven effective.  

Vaccines do not prevent people from getting the virus.  They simply attack the virus before it gets enough of a foothold for a person to get sick.  With Covid, transmission can occurs before symptoms.  This is unusual and makes containment trickier.  
 

For those that are touting natural immunity as being better, I suggest getting vaccinated and then when a breakthrough infection occurs, you should be well covered.  

 

I suspect that until children are able to be vaccinated, Covid is going to continue to be a vexing problem.  Kids are little petri dishes. 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

You need to see the recent Israel study on Delta.

 

SCIENCE: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine.

Bloomberg: Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot

(and more)

 

But the devil is in the details.  Israel had a large outbreak of UK-Alpha in Feb/March. Now they have a large Delta outbreak.  They drove the Alpha peak all the way to zero infections with a nationwide Pfizer campaign. Pfizer completely stopped Alpha in its tracks.

 

Now what they see is that people with natural immunity from the Alpha wave have much better protection against Delta infection vs those inoculated with Pfizer at the same time.

 

IOW, this is a special case and new science. They also said that people infected by other strains before the Alpha wave showed much less resistance to Delta.

 

It does not mean in any way that vaccines are not necessary. They are. If anything, it means more and better vaccines are needed

Israel is reporting high vaccination rates for ELEGIBLE people. Not the ENTIRE population. Plus, many who've been vaccinated are elderly or vulnerable and were done a long time ago. The vaccine is wearing off. And, we've got variants.

 

The devil is in the details. A you say!

[Virt]

On 8/10/2021 at 6:10 PM, Ryan754326 said:

What about the vaccinated people who are getting infected? Can’t they cause variants too? 

Every infected human can produce a new variant and it actually happens more often than you might think.

Here in Denmark we so far has discovered more than 35,000 variations of the Delta mutation amongst our positive PCR tests.

 

This short video describes some of the process, but i would recommend a vaccine anyday, compared to walking around with no protection what so ever.

 

 

 

 

[sezze]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

What makes the covid vaccine not a vaccine ? Vaccines do try to make you not sick , doesn't mean you can't be infected . The best vaccines also stop transmission , completely wiping out a virus , if enough people are vaccinated . Only a few vaccines can do that , most vaccines cannot . In the beginning of the covid vaccines with the very good results they were hoping for it also , but since variants have taken over , the working rate has gone down a bit . It is still plenty good to keep you away from worst effect of covid , but still leaves a window for transmission ( much smaller then unvaccinated also ).

Edited September 12, 2021 by Scott