ASEAN admits UK as dialogue partner despite disagreements

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, mark131v said:

Good gamble wasn't it, good job we didn't listen to your mates in Brussels and their anti AZ rhetoric and sour grapes. UK is open for business and life is pretty much back to normal!

Anti az rhetoric?
 

What anti az rhetoric?

 

The eu body regulating issues around vaccines, the EMA, consistently said the benefits of az outweighed the risks at that time. 

[nausea]

On 8/9/2021 at 3:48 AM, webfact said:

London has been working hard to reach out to foreign countries to compensate for its withdrawal from the European Union.

Seems like we're entering a period of realpolitik.

 

On 8/9/2021 at 3:48 AM, webfact said:

the bloc perceives the UK to be one the world’s great powers ... .

Wow! Flattery will get you everywhere.

[mark131v]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Anti az rhetoric?
 

What anti az rhetoric?

 

The eu body regulating issues around vaccines, the EMA, consistently said the benefits of az outweighed the risks at that time. 

Brexit news: EU is ashamed of AstraZeneca’s baseless allegations made ‘despite’ UK exit | Politics | FR24 News English

 

What is the EU's problem with the AstraZeneca jab? | The New European

 

Why are millions of doses of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines lying unused in EU countries? (newstatesman.com)

 

Selective memories some of you lot but your right the EMA had to step in several times to tell their own leaders their fears were groundless and would cost more lives

 

Funny they never tried that with Pfizer even though the blood clot numbers where pretty much the same, gutless school ground bullies

[Eibot]

On 8/9/2021 at 11:00 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

The reason for that is that over the years Supermarkets have been using cheap labour for haulage drivers , their terms (wages) got so bad that many drivers gave up and moved into other jobs and the haulage driving was taken over by cheaper E.U workers .

   Now Supermarkets will have to pay a decent /living wage to haulage drivers .

  Paying U.K workers a decent wage instead of using cheap E.U labour was one of the ideals of Brexit

Rubbish. It's called minimum wage. It was paid before and is still being paid for certain jobs. 

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, mark131v said:

Brexit news: EU is ashamed of AstraZeneca’s baseless allegations made ‘despite’ UK exit | Politics | FR24 News English

 

What is the EU's problem with the AstraZeneca jab? | The New European

 

Why are millions of doses of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines lying unused in EU countries? (newstatesman.com)

 

Selective memories some of you lot but your right the EMA had to step in several times to tell their own leaders their fears were groundless and would cost more lives

 

Funny they never tried that with Pfizer even though the blood clot numbers where pretty much the same, gutless school ground bullies

The EMA is an eu advisory body. 
 

What individual nations decide is up to them.  

 

The EMA advises, it does not dictate individual nations policies. 
 

Those articles are not all opening but the ones that are do not seem to be full of or about anti az rhetoric. 
 

Please link to articles showing EU anti az rhetoric. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Bluespunk

[mark131v]

41 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The eu body regulating issues around vaccines, the EMA, consistently said the benefits of az outweighed the risks at that time. 

Up to you I just wish you would make your mind up! as already stated Macron and Merkel's games against AZ needed the EMA and others to step in to clear stuff up

 

By that stage the damage was done and by their petty games they undoubtedly cost lives due to pushing the agenda that AZ was unsafe all stuff that has since been proven wrong 

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, mark131v said:

Up to you I just wish you would make your mind up! as already stated Macron and Merkel's games against AZ needed the EMA and others to step in to clear stuff up

 

By that stage the damage was done and by their petty games they undoubtedly cost lives due to pushing the agenda that AZ was unsafe all stuff that has since been proven wrong 

You said the EU was anti az. That is not true. The EU’s regulatory body has always favoured az use. 
 

At least that is what I assume you meant by “Brussels”…neither macron or Merkle are Belgium. 
 

Now I know macron was sceptical over az but not Merkle, what did she say that was anti az?

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Bluespunk

[mark131v]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The EMA is an eu advisory body. 
 

What individual nations decide is up to them.  

 

The EMA advises, it does not dictate individual nations policies. 
 

Those articles are not all opening but the ones that are do not seem to be full of or about anti az rhetoric. 
 

Please link to articles showing EU anti az rhetoric. 

EU leaders turn on each other in AstraZeneca Covid vaccine row (msn.com)

 

Yep some really short memories, from the link:

 

The European Commission's rare rebuke of member states came after 17 countries including Germany, France, Italy and Spain halted the rollout of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine until the EU's medicines regulator completes an investigation. 

 

On Tuesday, however, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said there was "no indication" that the suspended AstraZeneca vaccine caused fatal blood clots. It will give the result of its investigation on Thursday.

 

While new figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) showed the success of the UK's vaccination programme – with three quarters of over-80s and one in three overall now testing positive for antibodies against Covid – the French prime minister and Germany's national disease centre warned of a third wave.

 

Macron claims AstraZeneca vaccine is 'almost ineffective' on over-65s (msn.com)

 

from the link:

 

France's president Emmanuel Macron has astonishingly claimed the AstraZeneca vaccine is 'almost ineffective' on people who are over 65 years of age.

 

Macron made the explosive comments despite the EU giving the AstraZeneca vaccine full approval to be rolled out to its member states on Friday.

 

His comments came as the EU's vaccine war entered a dangerous new phase on Friday as the bloc introduced rules that will allow it to block life-saving jabs getting to Britain, while European politicians accused the UK of 'hijacking' doses.  

 

Coronavirus: What's behind France's AstraZeneca turnaround? - BBC News

 

EU on brink as Ireland urges Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel to give up extra Covid jabs | World | News | Express.co.uk

 

Even Tony Bliar can see it:

 

Tony Blair blasts 'foolish' EU and 'incorrect' Macron over Covid vaccines row - Mirror Online

 

And finally:

 

Macron and Merkel slammed for 'game of politics' over AstraZeneca ban | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, mark131v said:

EU leaders turn on each other in AstraZeneca Covid vaccine row (msn.com)

 

Yep some really short memories, from the link:

 

The European Commission's rare rebuke of member states came after 17 countries including Germany, France, Italy and Spain halted the rollout of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine until the EU's medicines regulator completes an investigation. 

 

On Tuesday, however, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said there was "no indication" that the suspended AstraZeneca vaccine caused fatal blood clots. It will give the result of its investigation on Thursday.

 

While new figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) showed the success of the UK's vaccination programme – with three quarters of over-80s and one in three overall now testing positive for antibodies against Covid – the French prime minister and Germany's national disease centre warned of a third wave.

 

Macron claims AstraZeneca vaccine is 'almost ineffective' on over-65s (msn.com)

 

from the link:

 

France's president Emmanuel Macron has astonishingly claimed the AstraZeneca vaccine is 'almost ineffective' on people who are over 65 years of age.

 

Macron made the explosive comments despite the EU giving the AstraZeneca vaccine full approval to be rolled out to its member states on Friday.

 

His comments came as the EU's vaccine war entered a dangerous new phase on Friday as the bloc introduced rules that will allow it to block life-saving jabs getting to Britain, while European politicians accused the UK of 'hijacking' doses.  

 

Coronavirus: What's behind France's AstraZeneca turnaround? - BBC News

 

EU on brink as Ireland urges Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel to give up extra Covid jabs | World | News | Express.co.uk

 

Even Tony Bliar can see it:

 

Tony Blair blasts 'foolish' EU and 'incorrect' Macron over Covid vaccines row - Mirror Online

 

And finally:

 

Macron and Merkel slammed for 'game of politics' over AstraZeneca ban | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

Yes countries delayed the roll out and were concerned about the blood clots issue but that is not anti az rhetoric. 

 

Macron as french president was skeptical, as I have said. Personally I think he was wrong, but he is not the eu. 
 

You said Brussels anti az rhetoric.
 

You have yet to show anti az rhetoric coming from the EU as a body in your links. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Bluespunk

[mark131v]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

Yes countries delayed the roll out and we’re concerned about the blood clots issue but that is not anti az rhetoric. 

 

Macron as french president was skeptical, as I have said. Personally I think he was wrong, but he is not the eu. 
 

You said Brussels anti az rhetoric.
 

You have yet to show anti az rhetoric coming from the EU as a body in your links. 

Oh I give up, have a read and educate yourself...

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, mark131v said:

Oh I give up, have a read and educate yourself...

I’ve read the links and they do not back up your claims about anti az rhetoric coming from the EU, the Tony Blair article in particular has nothing to do with it at all. 

The daily express article likewise does not back up your assertion. 
 

It’s not me that needs educating as I am very well read up on the EU’s attitude as a body towards az.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Bluespunk

[mark131v]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I’ve read the links and they do not back up your claims about anti az rhetoric coming from the EU, the Tony Blair article in particular has nothing to do with it at all. 
 

It’s not me that needs educating as I am very well read up on the EU’s attitude as a body towards az.

My last word on it as I think I am flogging a dead horse and that is a waste of time and effort:

 

Macron and Merkel slammed for 'game of politics' over AstraZeneca ban | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

 

Virologist Dr Smith has weighed into the debate over whether there was scientific merit it pulling support for the Astrazeneca drug.

He told Channel 5's Jeremy Vine programme on Tuesday: "The good science or not good science that did not stop Emmanuel Macron taking to the international stage and declaring that this vaccine is quasi ineffective in the over 65s.

 

"It didn't stop Angela Merkel standing up when asked will you have this vaccine and instead of holding out her arm, giving a politicians answer and saying I am too old for this vaccine.

 

"So I am afraid this has become more a game of politics than a game of science that is clear."

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, mark131v said:

My last word on it as I think I am flogging a dead horse and that is a waste of time and effort:

 

Macron and Merkel slammed for 'game of politics' over AstraZeneca ban | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

 

Virologist Dr Smith has weighed into the debate over whether there was scientific merit it pulling support for the Astrazeneca drug.

He told Channel 5's Jeremy Vine programme on Tuesday: "The good science or not good science that did not stop Emmanuel Macron taking to the international stage and declaring that this vaccine is quasi ineffective in the over 65s.

 

"It didn't stop Angela Merkel standing up when asked will you have this vaccine and instead of holding out her arm, giving a politicians answer and saying I am too old for this vaccine.

 

"So I am afraid this has become more a game of politics than a game of science that is clear."

Macron is not the EU, he is the French president, not the EU president. 
 

How does that rather vague reference to Merkle equate with anti az rhetoric?

Suspending the use of something because of safety concerns, whether they were proven correct or not is not anti az rhetoric. 
 

You said anti az rhetoric, now please show the evidence that the EU as a body engaged in this. 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Bluespunk

[mark131v]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Macron is not the EU, he is the French president, not the EU president. 
 

How does that rather vague reference to Merkle equate with anti az rhetoric?

 

You said anti az rhetoric, now please show the evidence that the EU as a body engaged in this. 

 

No, none so blind as he who refuses to see, laters...

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, mark131v said:

No, none so blind as he who refuses to see, laters...

None so tired as he who cannot back up their claim, but keeps digging the hole. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Bluespunk

[kimamey]

3 hours ago, mark131v said:

Good gamble wasn't it, good job we didn't listen to your mates in Brussels and their anti AZ rhetoric and sour grapes. UK is open for business and life is pretty much back to normal!

The UK has definitely done very well with the vaccine although a lot of that is probably down to the NHS but overall we've had a lot of deaths at least some of which might not have happened if we'd done better to start with.

 

I think the best way to decide how well the UK or more accurately the UK government has done is their attitude towards an inquiry. If they thought they'd come out of it looking good you can bet they'd be pushing forward with it quickly so they could use it to increase their chances in the next election.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 hours ago, Eibot said:

Rubbish. It's called minimum wage. It was paid before and is still being paid for certain jobs. 

Nothing to do with that 

[candide]

6 hours ago, mark131v said:

My last word on it as I think I am flogging a dead horse and that is a waste of time and effort:

 

Macron and Merkel slammed for 'game of politics' over AstraZeneca ban | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

 

Virologist Dr Smith has weighed into the debate over whether there was scientific merit it pulling support for the Astrazeneca drug.

He told Channel 5's Jeremy Vine programme on Tuesday: "The good science or not good science that did not stop Emmanuel Macron taking to the international stage and declaring that this vaccine is quasi ineffective in the over 65s.

 

"It didn't stop Angela Merkel standing up when asked will you have this vaccine and instead of holding out her arm, giving a politicians answer and saying I am too old for this vaccine.

 

"So I am afraid this has become more a game of politics than a game of science that is clear."

That was the scientific opinion at that time, and it probably wouldn't have happened if AZ hadn't screwed up its trials.

BTW, AZ is still not approved in the U.S. Game of politics too?

 

Anyway that's a theoretical debate as AZ was not able to deliver the ordered quantities, so they have critized a vaccine which was very sparsely available in the EU. Not big damage. Now that AZ can deliver more jabs, It's not any more useful. People prefer Pfizer BioNtech and Moderna which are now widely available and more efficient.

Edited August 10, 2021 by candide

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

When we have our next referendum you will be duly notified of the result.

This may or may not coincide with your wants.

Or not if the result does not suit the vocal minority.... 

[Bluespunk]

29 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Vaccine rollout was made much easier when out of the EU vaccine scheme, there would have been huge political pressure to join that if we were still members with the EU using their usual tactics of threatening budget cuts etc. unless we did what we were told.

Not true. EU regulations and rules allow for vaccine rollouts at the discretion of sovereign nations within the EU. 
 

The rest of the above quote is just the usual brexiteer project deflect from the facts tactics. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Bluespunk
facts for truth

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Rubbish. You clearly don't understand how the EU works and how they apply pressure to nations to toe the line. Opting out of the EU scheme would have been extremely problematic. Better you stick to US politics, you seem to have a slightly better grasp of that ????.

You are just continuing your project fear with your unprovable claims...

 

My point that what the uk did would be perfectly legal and allowable under EU regulations...that is a fact,

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

You are just continuing your project fear with your unprovable claims...

 

My point that what the uk did would be perfectly legal and allowable under EU regulations...that is a fact,

Where did I say it would have been illegal to opt out? Oh that's right, I didn't. I said it never would have happened for political reasons had we remained a member. If you genuinely believe that just because something is legal that it is also politically viable then I don't really think I have much to gain from our discussion.

 

Either you don't understand the machinations of the EU, or more likely you are being deliberately disingenuous. 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rimmer
altered user name removed

[Bluespunk]

22 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

You are just continuing your project fear with your unprovable claims...

 

My point that what the uk did would be perfectly legal and allowable under EU regulations...that is a fact,

@jonnyF: Any replies to this post will be replied to as long as they do not contain abusive name calling because you know you are losing the argument...

[Eibot]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Nothing to do with that 

Of course it has. You make it sound as if eastern europeans were working for such an extremely low wages that UK people won't do it for. There is a legal minimum wage in the UK and none is paid below that. 

 

Problem in the UK is that the benefits are almost equal to working minimum wages. Eastern europeans have the incentive of working hard and sending the money back home where it worth a lot more. English people rather pop open a foresters beer and relax at home. As they have no incentive to work hard for that money.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Of course it has. You make it sound as if eastern europeans were working for such an extremely low wages that UK people won't do it for. There is a legal minimum wage in the UK and none is paid below that. 

 

Problem in the UK is that the benefits are almost equal to working minimum wages. Eastern europeans have the incentive of working hard and sending the money back home where it worth a lot more. English people rather pop open a foresters beer and relax at home. As they have no incentive to work hard for that money.

Supermarkets had policies where they only paid drivers for actually driving , loading and unloading was regarded as resting and not working .

  E.U drivers were happy to work long hours  for minimal pay , practically living in their trucks to save money on living expenses .

   U.K drivers quit the industry and moved on to better paying jobs with better conditions . 

   This is one of the things that caused Brexit and Brexit was about paying British people a living wage , rather than E.U slave labour

[Eibot]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 U.K drivers quit the industry and moved on to better paying jobs with better conditions . 

Sit at home living on benefits. I lived in the north-east of the UK and seen it all there. Like I said, EU workers are happy to do the job and the brits don't see the added benefit. Some might be in "better jobs" but many are just at home. Why should they work if there is only a 150 quid pay gap between benefits and hard work. 

 

The interesting thing, is that instead of blaming the Supermarkets or the british government for this, the EU workers (and the EU) get the blame, resulting in Brexit. Of course this doesn't solve the problem in the slightest. The Supermarkets didn't change their policies, the benefits are still the same and all the eastern europeans have their rights secured to keep working in the UK. 

 

To solve this problem the supermarkets either have to pay more or the benefits need to be cut for people that don't want to work. Nothing to do with Brexit or the EU.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

This thread is about the U.K befriending ASEAN , like , moving on 

Asi t is allowed to do as a sovereign country.

[Rimmer]

Multiple off topic posts and replies about Brexit have been removed see the topic title:

 

ASEAN admits UK as dialogue partner despite disagreements

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Where did I say it would have been illegal to opt out? Oh that's right, I didn't. I said it never would have happened for political reasons had we remained a member. If you genuinely believe that just because something is legal that it is also politically viable then I don't really think I have much to gain from our discussion.

 

Either you don't understand the machinations of the EU, or more likely you are being deliberately disingenuous. 

 

You have no idea what would have happened if the U.K. had not left the EU, just project fear supposition. 
 

Whereas it is a fact that the U.K. could have acted as it did under EU rules and regulations. 
 

[falang1969]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:37 AM, Rookiescot said:

We were already talking to ASEAN while we were in the EU.

What we are doing now is trying to repair the damage caused by leaving.

As for the aircraft carrier. You understand we had to borrow the aircraft on it from the USA right?

Ruling the waves? Waives the rules more like.

There are UK and USA F35B's on the Queen Elizabeth at the moment.

 

"There'll also be more American jets on board the carrier: 10 US Marine Corps F-35s compared to the Britain's eight."

 

https://www.forces.net/news/what-you-need-know-about-f-35b