A Question about SinoPharm

[Negita43]

Is Sinopharm being admistered in Thailand at the moment?

I read a lot about Sinovac but not much about Sinopharm.

My Gf is a teacher, alledgely she is in a queue to get Sinopharm BUT now in her area Sinovac is available and being administered.

I hear nothing about the availability/distribution of Sinopharm so should she go for Sinovac now or wait for the Sinopharm?

My feeling is any vaccine is better than nothing and a jab in the arm is better than two in the queue!????

[internationalism]

yes, recently another 5mln imported.

Registration every Wednesday at 10:10 (something to do with numerology, which tells you all about an academic level at chula university).

Use to be priced 888b, now dropped to 777b (that's also numerology).

In hungarian research not effective for 25% of those above 60 yo, not even at a minimal level.

Still, probably better, than sinovac.

If she is not active professionally now, she can wait for sinopharm. 

Sinopharm was approved by WHO a week before sinovac, so possibly is/was better 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

yes, recently another 5mln imported.

Registration every Wednesday at 10:10 (something to do with numerology, which tells you all about an academic level at chula university).

Use to be priced 888b, now dropped to 777b (that's also numerology).

In hungarian research not effective for 25% of those above 60 yo, not even at a minimal level.

Still, probably better, than sinovac.

If she is not active professionally now, she can wait for sinopharm. 

Sinopharm was approved by WHO a week before sinovac, so possibly is/was better 

No. The hungarian research detected a lack of antibodies. That doesn't necessarily translate into being ineffective. And on what grounds do you claim that Sinopharm is probably better than Sinovac?

[internationalism]

so what does it translates to? 

I did explain why sinopharm migh be better than sinovac. It has 78% efficacy, which is higher, than sinovac. It's also now own by the CP thai conglomerate, so smaller chance for corruption during purchase process.

If you do have answer, do give. I do stand by my statement

Edited August 11, 2021 by internationalism

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, internationalism said:

so what does it translates to? 

I did explain why sinopharm migh be better than sinovac. It has 78% efficacy, which is higher, than sinovac. It's also now own by the CP thai conglomerate, so smaller chance for corruption during purchase process.

If you do have answer, do give. I do stand by my statement

Is that because you believe that Sinovac has a 51% effectiveness (not efficacy)?

[jackdd]

I think Thailand doesn't do two doses of Sinovac anymore, but the new standard is first dose Sinovac, second dose AZ.

Is Sinovac + AZ better than two doses of Sinopharm?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

I think Thailand doesn't do two doses of Sinovac anymore, but the new standard is first dose Sinovac, second dose AZ.

Is Sinovac + AZ better than two doses of Sinopharm?

I don't think there have been any large studies of Sinovac only  or Sinovac+AZ vs the Delta variant.

[scubascuba3]

Sinopharm is available to companies  and has to be paid for, I've had one already, 2nd one in 2 weeks. Pattaya City Hall was meant to buy a load but nothing has come if that so far, probably got out bid

[internationalism]

from the previous Wednesday sinopharm is also available private. Each Wednesday at 10:10 they open chance for registration. The last week website was overwhelmed and within an hour all allocated vax were gone. They have also an application CRA Sinop, but it's same story as with the website.

Yesterday I did forget to try again with them. Possible each next week chances would be bigger.  

[internationalism]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Is that because you believe that Sinovac has a 51% effectiveness (not efficacy)?

just give your answer to the poster, instead questioning each post I make.

I have enough of your such tactic for a long time, ignore list. Go play with girls instead wasting your time here with me

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, internationalism said:

just give your answer to the poster, instead questioning each post I make.

I have enough of your such tactic for a long time, ignore list. Go play with girls instead wasting your time here with me

So passive-aggressive. Are you saying that your confused thinking is manly?

Edited August 12, 2021 by placeholder

[fvw53]

To-day Sinopharm jabs are given free to handicapped people in the Government Complex B Chaengwattana 

[thwo]

You can get sinopharm and sinovac from your freshmarket, as nobody wants them, they are super cheap ????

 

[crazykopite]

Not sure but Sinovac is as a neighbour had it last week he was not offered an alternative 

[Dirk Z]

I am over 60, I got my two shots of Sinopharm, I managed to get on the staff list of a friends company, the shots were at Chaopaya Hospital and I paid 2 x 888 for the vaccine and 2 x 250 hospital fee. I had also registered with Chulabhorn and got a call by SMS tot go to Chaeng Wattana, but I was already done. How well it works I don't know, but for now anything you can get is better than nothing. When everything cools down I may get something more effective as a booster next year.

[scubascuba3]

13 minutes ago, Dick Z said:

I am over 60, I got my two shots of Sinopharm, I managed to get on the staff list of a friends company, the shots were at Chaopaya Hospital and I paid 2 x 888 for the vaccine and 2 x 250 hospital fee. I had also registered with Chulabhorn and got a call by SMS tot go to Chaeng Wattana, but I was already done. How well it works I don't know, but for now anything you can get is better than nothing. When everything cools down I may get something more effective as a booster next year.

Did you have any side effect? I had nothing after the first one

[hotchilli]

17 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Is Sinopharm being admistered in Thailand at the moment?

Very limited supply.

[scubascuba3]

Circ 95% efficacy to delta variant after two vaccinations, based on a Sri Lanka study, see video. I know that will disappoint some people

 

https://youtu.be/_h2gBn__cCw

Edited August 12, 2021 by scubascuba3

[Negita43]

What worries me about the current thinking of first China vaccine followed by Astra Zeneca is, given the supply issues with all vaccines what will happen with the followup Astra Zeneca dose. Will suddenly there be none available and people will have to have a second China vaccine after being persuded to take one dose of a China vaccine based on the dual vaccine strategy?

Forgive my cynisim.

[MrJ2U]

17 hours ago, placeholder said:

No. The hungarian research detected a lack of antibodies. That doesn't necessarily translate into being ineffective. And on what grounds do you claim that Sinopharm is probably better than Sinovac?

Yes I agree there almost equal in inefficiency.

 

The Hungarian report hasn't been peer tested

 

This is from the Independent July 26,2021

Direct from China

 

"State-owned Sinopharm’s inactivated virus vaccines had earlier been reported to offer 70% overall protection, while that from another major Chinese developer, Sinovac Biotech Ltd., had a reported 50.6% efficacy rate."

 

Sinopharm is better than nothing and Sinovac is about equal to nothing.

Between two Id get Sinopharm.

 

 

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Yes I agree there almost equal in inefficiency.

 

The Hungarian report hasn't been peer tested

 

This is from the Independent July 26,2021

Direct from China

 

"State-owned Sinopharm’s inactivated virus vaccines had earlier been reported to offer 70% overall protection, while that from another major Chinese developer, Sinovac Biotech Ltd., had a reported 50.6% efficacy rate."

 

Sinopharm is better than nothing and Sinovac is about equal to nothing.

Between two Id get Sinopharm.

 

 

 

First of all, that 50.6% figure came from one study done by the Brazilian vaccine maker, Butantan. Other studies showed a much higher effectiveness rate. Why is it that people only cite that study and not others?

Part of the reason for that lower percentage is that the people in the Brazilian study were front line health care workers who not only would be more exposed to the virus but more likely to recognize and report symptoms. But even if that weren't the case, antibody levels are the worst way to predict vaccine effectiveness.

 

"Monica Gandhi, an infectious-disease doctor at the University of California, San Francisco, believes that, as a matter of public education, there hasn’t been nearly enough discussion of T cells... “We talk about antibodies because they’re super easy to measure in any old lab.” In contrast, checking on a person’s T cells requires “careful preparation, and huge, fancy, expensive flow-cytometry machines.” 

https://www.newyorker.com/science/annals-of-medicine/how-will-the-coronavirus-evolve?utm

 

What's more the effectiveness that was referred to in that 50.6% study concerns how well the vaccine prevented any symptoms from arising. It said nothing about how well it protects against hospitalization and death. Virtually every study done of Sinovac shows it works far better against hospitalizations and death than it does against stopping transmission of the virus and the development of any symptoms.

Currently there is no good evidence to support the claim that Sinovac is "about equal to nothing". Antibody studies simply don't cut it.

[brewsterbudgen]

All our teachers have had two doses of Sinopharm.

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

All our teachers have had two doses of Sinopharm.

any side effects reported?

[Dirk Z]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Did you have any side effect? I had nothing after the first one

None at all, both times.

[MrJ2U]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

First of all, that 50.6% figure came from one study done by the Brazilian vaccine maker, Butantan. Other studies showed a much higher effectiveness rate. Why is it that people only cite that study and not others?

Part of the reason for that lower percentage is that the people in the Brazilian study were front line health care workers who not only would be more exposed to the virus but more likely to recognize and report symptoms. But even if that weren't the case, antibody levels are the worst way to predict vaccine effectiveness.

 

"Monica Gandhi, an infectious-disease doctor at the University of California, San Francisco, believes that, as a matter of public education, there hasn’t been nearly enough discussion of T cells... “We talk about antibodies because they’re super easy to measure in any old lab.” In contrast, checking on a person’s T cells requires “careful preparation, and huge, fancy, expensive flow-cytometry machines.” 

https://www.newyorker.com/science/annals-of-medicine/how-will-the-coronavirus-evolve?utm

 

What's more the effectiveness that was referred to in that 50.6% study concerns how well the vaccine prevented any symptoms from arising. It said nothing about how well it protects against hospitalization and death. Virtually every study done of Sinovac shows it works far better against hospitalizations and death than it does against stopping transmission of the virus and the development of any symptoms.

Currently there is no good evidence to support the claim that Sinovac is "about equal to nothing". Antibody stu.

You can cheerlead all you like for Sinovac and Sinopharm.

 

China has even admitted that there vaccines aren't very good.

 

"Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates,” said the director of the China Centers for Disease Control, Gao <deleted>, at a conference Saturday in the southwestern city of Chengdu."

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, MrJ2U said:

You can cheerlead all you like for Sinovac and Sinopharm.

 

China has even admitted that there vaccines aren't very good.

 

"Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates,” said the director of the China Centers for Disease Control, Gao <deleted>, at a conference Saturday in the southwestern city of Chengdu."

 

The question is "protection rates" against what? What is so hard to understand about the difference between effectiveness at stopping infections and effectivens at stopping hospitalizations and death.

Currently, there is no good data about how well Sinovac actually performs against the Delta variant. But there is excellent data about how well it performs against hospitalizations and death of earlier variants. The Butantan Institute, the same organization that gave Sinovac a 50.6% rating in effectiveness at stopping symptoms, carried out a major study by vaccinating most of the adults in the city of Serrana with Sinovac's vaccine. The results were spectacular:

 

Brazilian town experiment shows mass vaccination can wipe out COVID-19

As part of an unusual experiment to track the real-world effectiveness of CoronaVac, a COVID-19 vaccine made by a Chinese company, almost all adult residents of Serrana, in the state of São Paulo, received the required two shots between February and April, long before most would otherwise have become eligible for the vaccine. ... Symptomatic cases of COVID-19 have dropped by 80% since the start of mass vaccination, related hospitalizations fell 86%, and deaths plummeted 95%, the research team in charge of the experiment reported during a press conference yesterday.

Related

Meanwhile, cases have risen out of control in 15 other cities nearby. 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/brazilian-town-experiment-shows-mass-vaccination-can-wipe-out-covid-19

[MrJ2U]

Just now, placeholder said:

The question is "protection rates" against what? What is so hard to understand about the difference between effectiveness at stopping infections and effectivens at stopping hospitalizations and death.

Currently, there is no good data about how well Sinovac actually performs against the Delta variant. But there is excellent data about how well it performs against hospitalizations and death of earlier variants. The Butantan Institute, the same organization that gave Sinovac a 50.6% rating in effectiveness at stopping symptoms, carried out a major study by vaccinating most of the adults in the city of Serrana with Sinovac's vaccine. The results were spectacular:

 

Brazilian town experiment shows mass vaccination can wipe out COVID-19

As part of an unusual experiment to track the real-world effectiveness of CoronaVac, a COVID-19 vaccine made by a Chinese company, almost all adult residents of Serrana, in the state of São Paulo, received the required two shots between February and April, long before most would otherwise have become eligible for the vaccine. ... Symptomatic cases of COVID-19 have dropped by 80% since the start of mass vaccination, related hospitalizations fell 86%, and deaths plummeted 95%, the research team in charge of the experiment reported during a press conference yesterday.

Related

Meanwhile, cases have risen out of control in 15 other cities nearby. 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/brazilian-town-experiment-shows-mass-vaccination-can-wipe-out-covid-19

Straight up, I think taking Sinovac or Sinopharm is a waist of time.

 

Other countries are not planning to order more because there doctors and nurses are dying of COVID-19 despite having two doses of Sinovac.

 

The medical community and front line workers in Thailand are pleading for mRNA vaccines. 

 

There <deleted> because they keep ordering the inneffective Chinese vaccines.

 

I don't want to debate with you.  I'm in the same corner as the doctors and front line medical workers.

 

You on the other hand take Dr. Anutins side.  Sinovac for the masses ( but not me).

[MrJ2U]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The question is "protection rates" against what? What is so hard to understand about the difference between effectiveness at stopping infections and effectivens at stopping hospitalizations and death.

Currently, there is no good data about how well Sinovac actually performs against the Delta variant. But there is excellent data about how well it performs against hospitalizations and death of earlier variants. The Butantan Institute, the same organization that gave Sinovac a 50.6% rating in effectiveness at stopping symptoms, carried out a major study by vaccinating most of the adults in the city of Serrana with Sinovac's vaccine. The results were spectacular:

 

Brazilian town experiment shows mass vaccination can wipe out COVID-19

As part of an unusual experiment to track the real-world effectiveness of CoronaVac, a COVID-19 vaccine made by a Chinese company, almost all adult residents of Serrana, in the state of São Paulo, received the required two shots between February and April, long before most would otherwise have become eligible for the vaccine. ... Symptomatic cases of COVID-19 have dropped by 80% since the start of mass vaccination, related hospitalizations fell 86%, and deaths plummeted 95%, the research team in charge of the experiment reported during a press conference yesterday.

Related

Meanwhile, cases have risen out of control in 15 other cities nearby. 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/brazilian-town-experiment-shows-mass-vaccination-can-wipe-out-covid-19

Old data for the Alpha variant.

[placeholder]

Just now, MrJ2U said:

Straight up, I think taking Sinovac or Sinopharm is a waist of time.

 

Other countries are not planning to order more because there doctors and nurses are dying of COVID-19 despite having two doses of Sinovac.

 

The medical community and front line workers in Thailand are pleading for mRNA vaccines. 

 

There <deleted> because they keep ordering the inneffective Chinese vaccines.

 

I don't want to debate with you.  I'm in the same corner as the doctors and front line medical workers.

 

You on the other hand take Dr. Anutins side.  Sinovac for the masses ( but not me).

Not a real convincing piece of deflection. You claimed that Sinovac was ineffective. Nothing you've cited here supports that contention. It's overwhelmingly likely that Sinovac is less effective at stopping transmission, and at reducing hospitalizations and death. And Thailand should be using a better vaccine But that doesn't make your original contention that Sinovac is ineffective accurate, or even close to accurate. 

It may be that as studies emerge that will be shown to be the case. It's dubious, but possible. But in the meantime, you should stop making things up.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Old data for the Alpha variant.

As I explicitly noted. But until there is actual clinical data about its performance against the Delta variant, it's what we've got.