Thailand to consider extending lockdown amid warning over rising cases

[ikke1959]

2 hours ago, wmlc said:

Interesting I am under 60 and got my 1st vaccine shot. Ooops it was Astra Zeneca. Wonder how that happened? I guess I must of paid tea money or know someone working in a hospital. Well, to answer these questions, it’s no. I was just determined to get my vaccine so I registered in as many places as I could. It was also free too. So stop your whining and complaining and think about what would happen if you put the same effort into getting your vaccine as you did complaining and posting in anonymous forums about how bad the place you live in is. If you don’t like it here, it’s an easy problem to solve. Many others have gone back home for their vaccine and you can also choose that path. However, not me. I chose to live here and now I’m doing my best to adapt to Thailand’s systems, culture, and ideals. 

You don't know me so please calm down and respect.. yes I am over 60 too and I have 3 appointments in the hospital with the promise i would get AZ, but 3 times no AZ only Sinovac available they told me... And who said ever I don't like it here? I am happy but I am concerned about the Thai people who can NOT get any vaccine as my partner and many people living in my neighbourhood.. Easy talking if you live in Bangkok.

[ikke1959]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

I just walked in yesterday and got one.. Sure its Sino.. But thats triggered a firm AZ dose at 4th sept.. And also easier travel options around the country. 

No appointment.. walked into the Thai 7 reasons category.. >100kg at 6'3" I havent been under 100 kg since I was a teenager.. But I could have said blood pressure etc there was no checking it was self identification. 1 hour for the shot and 30 mins forced waiting time. 

All these saying how hard it is to get a shot, just be proactive.. You can fill in apps and forms and lists as much as you want but turn up and give a reason and you get a shot. My first attempt and an hour later done. 

Easy talking for the ones living in Bangkok but in my province there is no walk in  nowhere.... Only on appointments by Mor Prom or directly at the hospital.. waiting time to be vaccinated unknown.. depends on when the vaccines are available. Not everything is the same as in Bangkok

[koratkarlos]

3 hours ago, wmlc said:

I was just determined to get my vaccine so I registered in as many places as I could. It was also free too. So stop your whining and complaining

wmlc ---  I really think it is about where you live in Thailand.  I know I work on getting vaccinated every day.  And if I was offered AstraZeneca I would be first in line.  But here in Chiang Mai I must take Sinovac to get any AstraZeneca and that just is not working for me at this time.  So the Thai government is determining what medical procedures/vaccines that I must take.  And that really does not work for me either.  So I wait.  I don't sit here and complain.  And I think many other forum members are not complaining.  I believe we are concerned for our future, our health and the state of affairs in Thailand.  The truth is that quality vaccines are not readily available and you only have a chance to get these if you live in Bangkok or Phuket.  The rest of us soi dogs must wait.  I will feel more encouraged when they actually order and receive quality vaccines of sufficient quantity.  And I think this will not happen until next year.

[superal]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Semi lockdowns seem to work when testing is decreased.  Antigen Test Kits also reduce the number of reported cases unless retested with a PCR swab. If they wanted the numbers to decrease they would need to have a rigid lockdown, but then what do they really want.  The public seems a little frantic right now which can be seen with the mass numbers queuing to be tested or waiting on a vaccine.

That would really wreck the Thai economy and the baht would plummet . Not forget , money number 1 in Thailand .

[gejohesch]

5 hours ago, cclub75 said:

 

At least, we have a "timeline"... 2 weeks per 2 weeks. ???? It helps.

 

The main problem is : even with 70 or 80 % of the population fully vaccinated... the virus could still be there.

 

Look at Israel (or Malta, or UAE etc.)

 

Massive (and early) vaccination program (started december 19) with Pfizer.

 

 

 

The idea that "vaccine = end of the problem = going back to normal" is deeply flawed.

 

Confronted to thoses facts (the vaccine do not prevent transmission and contamination, the herd immunity with a virus that mutates/recombines a lot and that has animal reservoirs is a fiction) countries start to think "differently" like Iceland or the UK... The virus will always be there, it's okay.

 

But I'm very concerned about Thailand... i'm not sure they can think out of the box... The "zero Covid" ideology is very strong in Asia and South-East Asia.

 

Add to this... the tense political situation (factorized by the economic and social situation)...

 

That's not a good cocktail recipe...

I agree, the "zero COVID" ideology is a dead end. It's going to stay with us for years if not for ever. Our way out is to contain it and learn to live with it, to the best we can.

 

Not sure I really agree with you re. vaccines. If they are not the end of the problem, they are still an essential tool in "contain + learn to live with it". It has become clear, in the USA as well as in Europe, that the risks of getting infected and especially severely infected are much reduced for vaccinated people. That reduces the pressure on the medical services.  And life can return, maybe not to full normal, however to near normal enough (UK, EU). At least for those who are vaccinated or have developed immunity having recovered from infection.

 

That "zero COVID" ideology in Asia, unfortunate but not surprising. There are strong tendencies to "absolute / total" solutions in Asia, linked with propaganda and poor education to keep control of the masses.

[metisdead]

A post with a link to an unapproved social media source has been removed:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

 

[Cake Monster]

5 hours ago, Sharp said:

Yeah but look at Phuket even with mass vaccinations done still closing businesses, locking down, limited movement so what's the point!! Before you say it, if only the seriously ill were in hospital then there would be no crashing of the medical profession. 

Phuket has been mass vaccinated !

I for one one, believe only  a single dose of Sinovac has been given to most people on Phuket

Hardly an effective Vaccination Program if correct.

[Mises]

Oct 2019 WHO Pandemic Guidelines – No Lockdown Allowed

WHO Oct 2019 Pandemic Guidelines

FORTY-SEVEN LOCKDOWN LACK OF EFFICACY PAPERS & ANALYSES:

1.  STANFORD – Effects of NPI on Covid-19 – A Tale of Three Models

2. Stay-at-home policy is a case of exception fallacy – an internet-based ecological study

3.  LANCET NO EFFECT ON MORTALITY Paper

4. Was Lockdown in Germany Necessary? – Homburg

5. KOCH Institute Germany Analysis

6. BRISTOL UNIVERSITY Paper

7. NATURE Submission Flaxman et al Response

8. PROFESSOR BEN ISRAEL ANALYSIS

9. NIH Paper

10. WOODS HOLE INSTITUTE Paper

11. EDINBURGH STRATCLYDE UNIVERSITY Paper

12. BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL BMJ Paper

13. ISRAEL MASSIVE COST OF LOCKDOWN Paper

14. EPIDEMIOLOGY Too Little of a Good Thing Paper

15. Smart thinking: lockdown and Covid-19 Implications-for-Public-Policy

16. SCOTLAND Life Expectancy Paper

17. LOCKDOWN COSTS MORE LIVES Paper Federico

18. DID LOCKDOWN WORK? Paper

19. FOUR STYLIZED FACTS ABOUT COVID-19

20. HOW DOES BELARUS…

21. LIVING WITH CHILDREN IN UK

22. PANDATA COUNTRY ANALYSIS

23. NEJM MARINE STUDY QUARANTINE

24. A MATTER OF VULNERABILITY STUDY

25. Government Mandated Lockdowns do NOT Reduce Mortality – New Zealand Wrong

26. Dec 30th Longitudinal variability in mortality predicts Covid-19 deaths

27. Lockdown Effects on Sars-CoV-2 Transmission – The evidence from Northern Jutland

28. Assessing Mandatory Stay‐at‐Home and Business Closure Effects on the Spread of COVID‐19

29. COVID-19 Rethinking the Lockdown Groupthink

30. STANFORD Effects of non-pharmaceutical interventions on COVID-19 – A Tale of Three Models

31. Flaxman Rebuttal – The effect of interventions on COVID-19

32. COVID-19 Lockdown Policies – An Interdisciplinary Review

33. Do Lockdowns Make a Difference in a Pandemic?

34. Delaying the first lockdown may have inadvertently saved more lives than it cost

35. LANCET Immune evasion means we need a new COVID-19 social contract

36. PNAS Evaluating the effects of shelter-in-place policies during the COVID-19 pandemic

37. Lockdown Effect – Professor Simon Wood – University of Edinburgh

38. A Year Later – Were-Lockdowns-Necessary?

39. Covid Lockdown Cost_Benefits – A Critical Assessment of the Literature

40. Why is there no correlation between masks/lockdowns and covid suppression

41. pandata.org: a critical analysis of the covid response/

42. Professor Explains Flaw in Many Models Used for COVID-19 Lockdown Policies  HIS PAPER: Covid Lockdown Cost-Benefits – A Critical Assessment of the Literature

43. Whether County Lockdown Could Deter the Contagion of COVID-19 in the USA

44. A Cost–Benefit Analysis of the Ireland Lockdown

45. Irish Paper: A Tale of two Scientific Paradigms – Conflicting Scientific Opinions

46. Cambridge, MA: THE IMPACT OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AND POLICY RESPONSES ON EXCESS MORTALITY

47. COVID-19 and the Political Economy of Mass Hysteria

 

LOCKDOWN HUGE HARMS 18 PAPERS & ANALYSES:

1.  MILLION DOLLAR SOCIAL DISTANCING

2. COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF LOCKDOWN

3. BMJ IOANNIDIS DEBATE

4. NIH NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF LOCKDOWN

5. BMJ: HERD IMMUNITY POLICY COULD SAVE LIVES

6. IMPACT OF LOCKDOWN DISORDERS

7. BMJ DELAYED ACCESS TO CARE

8. CAMBRIDGE: LIVING WITH COVID – BALANCING

9. PSYCHIATRY RESEARCH – LIVING WITH COVID

10. JAMA HOSPITALIZATIONS FOR CHRONIC DISEASE

11. IRISH CANCER SOCIETY SUBMISSION

12. ECLINICAL DEATHS OF DESPAIR

13. ONS EXCESS DEATH MESS

14. DEATH BY LOCKDOWN

15. LOCKDOWN – A FOCUS ON THE POOR AND CHILDREN

16. MENTAL HEALTH AND LOCKDOWN

17. PROJECTED DEATHS OF DESPAIR FROM LOCKDOWN

18. THE PRICE OF PANIC

[Surasak]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

25% effective- might be considered an oxymoron.

And Those considering it may be MORONS.

[brucec64]

9 minutes ago, Mises said:

Oct 2019 WHO Pandemic Guidelines – No Lockdown Allowed

WHO Oct 2019 Pandemic Guidelines

 

FORTY-SEVEN LOCKDOWN LACK OF EFFICACY PAPERS & ANALYSES:

 

1.  STANFORD – Effects of NPI on Covid-19 – A Tale of Three Models

    

2. Stay-at-home policy is a case of exception fallacy – an internet-based ecological study

    

3.  LANCET NO EFFECT ON MORTALITY Paper

    

4. Was Lockdown in Germany Necessary? – Homburg

    

5. KOCH Institute Germany Analysis

    

6. BRISTOL UNIVERSITY Paper

    

7. NATURE Submission Flaxman et al Response

    

8. PROFESSOR BEN ISRAEL ANALYSIS

    

9. NIH Paper

    

10. WOODS HOLE INSTITUTE Paper

     

11. EDINBURGH STRATCLYDE UNIVERSITY Paper

     

12. BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL BMJ Paper

     

13. ISRAEL MASSIVE COST OF LOCKDOWN Paper

     

14. EPIDEMIOLOGY Too Little of a Good Thing Paper

     

15. Smart thinking: lockdown and Covid-19 Implications-for-Public-Policy

     

16. SCOTLAND Life Expectancy Paper

     

17. LOCKDOWN COSTS MORE LIVES Paper Federico

     

18. DID LOCKDOWN WORK? Paper

     

19. FOUR STYLIZED FACTS ABOUT COVID-19

     

20. HOW DOES BELARUS…

     

21. LIVING WITH CHILDREN IN UK

     

22. PANDATA COUNTRY ANALYSIS

     

23. NEJM MARINE STUDY QUARANTINE

     

24. A MATTER OF VULNERABILITY STUDY

     

25. Government Mandated Lockdowns do NOT Reduce Mortality – New Zealand Wrong

     

26. Dec 30th Longitudinal variability in mortality predicts Covid-19 deaths

     

27. Lockdown Effects on Sars-CoV-2 Transmission – The evidence from Northern Jutland

     

28. Assessing Mandatory Stay‐at‐Home and Business Closure Effects on the Spread of COVID‐19

     

29. COVID-19 Rethinking the Lockdown Groupthink

     

30. STANFORD Effects of non-pharmaceutical interventions on COVID-19 – A Tale of Three Models

     

31. Flaxman Rebuttal – The effect of interventions on COVID-19

     

32. COVID-19 Lockdown Policies – An Interdisciplinary Review

     

33. Do Lockdowns Make a Difference in a Pandemic?

     

34. Delaying the first lockdown may have inadvertently saved more lives than it cost

     

35. LANCET Immune evasion means we need a new COVID-19 social contract

     

36. PNAS Evaluating the effects of shelter-in-place policies during the COVID-19 pandemic

     

37. Lockdown Effect – Professor Simon Wood – University of Edinburgh

     

38. A Year Later – Were-Lockdowns-Necessary?

     

39. Covid Lockdown Cost_Benefits – A Critical Assessment of the Literature

     

40. Why is there no correlation between masks/lockdowns and covid suppression

     

41. pandata.org: a critical analysis of the covid response/

     

42. Professor Explains Flaw in Many Models Used for COVID-19 Lockdown Policies  HIS PAPER: Covid Lockdown Cost-Benefits – A Critical Assessment of the Literature

     

43. Whether County Lockdown Could Deter the Contagion of COVID-19 in the USA

     

44. A Cost–Benefit Analysis of the Ireland Lockdown

     

45. Irish Paper: A Tale of two Scientific Paradigms – Conflicting Scientific Opinions

     

46. Cambridge, MA: THE IMPACT OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AND POLICY RESPONSES ON EXCESS MORTALITY

     

47. COVID-19 and the Political Economy of Mass Hysteria

     

 

 

LOCKDOWN HUGE HARMS 18 PAPERS & ANALYSES:

 

1.  MILLION DOLLAR SOCIAL DISTANCING

    

2. COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF LOCKDOWN

    

3. BMJ IOANNIDIS DEBATE

    

4. NIH NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF LOCKDOWN

    

5. BMJ: HERD IMMUNITY POLICY COULD SAVE LIVES

    

6. IMPACT OF LOCKDOWN DISORDERS

    

7. BMJ DELAYED ACCESS TO CARE

    

8. CAMBRIDGE: LIVING WITH COVID – BALANCING

    

9. PSYCHIATRY RESEARCH – LIVING WITH COVID

    

10. JAMA HOSPITALIZATIONS FOR CHRONIC DISEASE

     

11. IRISH CANCER SOCIETY SUBMISSION

     

12. ECLINICAL DEATHS OF DESPAIR

     

13. ONS EXCESS DEATH MESS

     

14. DEATH BY LOCKDOWN

     

15. LOCKDOWN – A FOCUS ON THE POOR AND CHILDREN

     

16. MENTAL HEALTH AND LOCKDOWN

     

17. PROJECTED DEATHS OF DESPAIR FROM LOCKDOWN

     

18. THE PRICE OF PANIC

     

All alt-right sources or non peer reviewed nonsense. For each of these garbage "research" papers from dubious sources, there are 100 accredited papers that refute your alt right nonsense. 

 

You are seriously using Epoch Times as a credible source? The only person you are fooling with this is yourself.

Edited August 15, 2021 by brucec64

[Surasak]

5 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

and always urging people to get vaccinated as soon as possible.. But there are no vaccines available only Sinovac which is proven many times it is not effective and other vaccines are in the country not available.. Mor Prom doesn't work and I know from several people that they are waiting already for more than 4 months without any possibility to get an appointment, But on the other hand we also heard that friends of people in hospital are being vaccinated without any appointment.. There is some work to do....

Take a look at this if you are contemplating Sinovac:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891217/Countries-using-Chinas-Sinopharm-jab-boosterbecause-cuts-infection-50.html?ito=email_share_article-bottom

[Mises]

1 minute ago, brucec64 said:

All alt-right sources or non peer reviewed nonsense. For each of these garbage "research" papers from dubious sources, there are 100 accredited papers that refute your alt right nonsense. 

Stanford, The Lancet, Bristol University, Edinburgh University the BMJ etc. are alt right?

[geisha]

4 hours ago, cnx101 said:

Maybe they should in the future make to enter certain places and facilities show vaccination paper, maybe people will think again about getting vaccinated.

 

 

Most of Europe has the Pass Sanitaire which you get after you are vaccinated with a QR code. As from this weekend, every restaurant, bigger shops, coffee bar, bus, train, flight obliges you to use the downloaded app ( government protected) when you wish to go anywhere where there is public.Also hospitals clinics etc except Urgencies. There are protests, a relatively small number, of anti vaxers, complot spreaders every Saturday afternoon in the big cities. It does incite the general public to get their vaccinations , and millions have done so in the last few days and are booked for the weeks ahead. You also need the Pass to go to work, if you work with the public, or big office etc. If not, you can be suspended without pay, or, you can present a valid negative test every three days to your employer ! Once you get everyone needed vaccinated , you can put in milder rules. None of my friends object, it’s easy to do ( paper form if you don’t have smart phone) and is free. An awkward 2 days at the start, now it’s just run of the mill.

For above comments, 86% of new infections are non vaccinated . The rest, vulnerable people or the very sick.
yes, you can get Covid once vaccinated, which generally lasts a few days and doesn’t put you in hospital. We still take care, avoid crowds, masks in shops etc for the moment. 

[Dogmatix]

6 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Semi lockdowns seem to work when testing is decreased.  Antigen Test Kits also reduce the number of reported cases unless retested with a PCR swab. If they wanted the numbers to decrease they would need to have a rigid lockdown, but then what do they really want.  The public seems a little frantic right now which can be seen with the mass numbers queuing to be tested or waiting on a vaccine.

I think what they want is to impose half-hearted lock down measures to make it look like they are doing something without being accused of destroying the economy with a full lock down. This gives them an excuse not to pay unemployment benefits and compensation to businesses.  Because they are imposing in partial lock downs, they can also accuse the public of not following the half measures properly and for making COVID worse. They always want a whipping dog and blaming the victims for their misfortune is the line of least resistance. 

[Mises]

9 minutes ago, geisha said:

Most of Europe has the Pass Sanitaire which you get after you are vaccinated with a QR code. As from this weekend, every restaurant, bigger shops, coffee bar, bus, train, flight obliges you to use the downloaded app ( government protected) when you wish to go anywhere where there is public.Also hospitals clinics etc except Urgencies. There are protests, a relatively small number, of anti vaxers, complot spreaders every Saturday afternoon in the big cities. It does incite the general public to get their vaccinations , and millions have done so in the last few days and are booked for the weeks ahead. You also need the Pass to go to work, if you work with the public, or big office etc. If not, you can be suspended without pay, or, you can present a valid negative test every three days to your employer ! Once you get everyone needed vaccinated , you can put in milder rules. None of my friends object, it’s easy to do ( paper form if you don’t have smart phone) and is free. An awkward 2 days at the start, now it’s just run of the mill.

For above comments, 86% of new infections are non vaccinated . The rest, vulnerable people or the very sick.
yes, you can get Covid once vaccinated, which generally lasts a few days and doesn’t put you in hospital. We still take care, avoid crowds, masks in shops etc for the moment. 

Many in France are protesting this

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9893639/Thousands-protestors-streets-Paris-opposition-vaccine-passport.html

 

[stuandjulie]

4 hours ago, PMinThailand said:

Decision already made prior to meeting. CCSA has no better idea than lockdown, lockdown, lockdown!

To limit the death/long covid/ Hospital overload It would seem that is the only option until nearly full vaccination is achieved. No-one else has come up with another idea.

[zzaa09]

6 hours ago, cclub75 said:

 

At least, we have a "timeline"... 2 weeks per 2 weeks. ???? It helps.

 

The main problem is : even with 70 or 80 % of the population fully vaccinated... the virus could still be there.

 

Look at Israel (or Malta, or UAE etc.)

 

Massive (and early) vaccination program (started december 19) with Pfizer.

 

 

 

The idea that "vaccine = end of the problem = going back to normal" is deeply flawed.

 

Confronted to thoses facts (the vaccine do not prevent transmission and contamination, the herd immunity with a virus that mutates/recombines a lot and that has animal reservoirs is a fiction) countries start to think "differently" like Iceland or the UK... The virus will always be there, it's okay.

 

But I'm very concerned about Thailand... i'm not sure they can think out of the box... The "zero Covid" ideology is very strong in Asia and South-East Asia.

 

Add to this... the tense political situation (factorized by the economic and social situation)...

 

That's not a good cocktail recipe...

The collective effort worldwide is quite dismal, regardless of respective practices and policies. 

The worst offender is grasping onto cultural/ideological comparatives and superlatives. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

5 hours ago, internationalism said:

"Thailand's Centre for Covid-19 Situation Administration (CCSA) will decide on Monday (Aug 16) whether the current restrictions put in place to limit the spread of COVID-19 need to be extended.

... On Monday, the CCSA will also consider relaxing some measures."

the last sentence of this article contradicts the title and the first sentense.

It looks like more burden on small businesses, including street markets, but allowing on partial opening of shopping centres

Mall owners have powerful friends. See 2010 as an example.

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, Scrotobike said:

A thought all people living in Thailand were eligible - oops slimed (slipped) out did it?

Far from it, around here unless your name is registered locally then no vaccine for you - this comes from a Thai who can't get a vaccine due to this policy.

 

I also know Thai people in their 30's who've been double vaccinated in their home province, but if you're not living in your home province - hard luck and that's the Thais, never mind the foreigners.

 

[Bkktodd]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Reviewed my eye... they'll be extended again and again as long as there's no enough vax to do at least large portion of the economy Covid will continue to wreak havoc in this country...

Along with the emergency degree in place how long?  Its a given to keep protests at bay.  Already lockdowns and cases rising….explain that to the non elected government 

[Bkktodd]

1 hour ago, superal said:

That would really wreck the Thai economy and the baht would plummet . Not forget , money number 1 in Thailand .

Money…everyday people need to survive. Number one rule. .  The already rich dont care.

[Bangkok Barry]

7 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

He also urged everyone who is eligible to receive a vaccine to get one as soon as possible in order to help lessen the impact of their health should they become infected with the virus.

Yes. We all know that, but where? I'm in Kalasin province, I'm over 60, I've registered in three places including my local hospital, and everything has disappeared into a black hole. No follow-up, nothing. The only people in my area who have received the first jab are local politicians and others who work for the government.

[brewsterbudgen]

47 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

To limit the death/long covid/ Hospital overload It would seem that is the only option until nearly full vaccination is achieved. No-one else has come up with another idea.

So, maybe 2-3 years then?

[ikke1959]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

Take a look at this if you are contemplating Sinovac:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891217/Countries-using-Chinas-Sinopharm-jab-boosterbecause-cuts-infection-50.html?ito=email_share_article-bottom

This is about Sinopharm and not Sinovac. Besides if a vaccine is working less than 50% it is assumed it is not working at all..

[robsamui]

7 hours ago, Henryford said:

The UK (with the same population as Thailand) has had 87 million vaccinations but still has 30,000 cases a day. So anyone hoping for a zero Covid situation (looking at you Australia and NZ) is going to be seriously disappointed.

Well, the less you test, the fewer infections there are to report. Tests in the UK are free. I wonder what's the REAL number of cases in Thailand?

_{info extracted directly from https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations}

Edited August 15, 2021 by robsamui

[DBath]

"Thailand to consider extending lockdown amid warning over rising cases"

 

Why even bother? None of the previous lockdowns have had an effect.

[DBath]

I feel like we're in this never ending cycle of, "Here, try this vaccine, since the previous one didn't work or was totally ineffective (as in the case of Sinovac against the delta variant)". Seriously? Are people really that gullible?

[pepi2005]

News like this makes you wonder whether Thai health authorities follow international findings AT ALL?! ????

• Lockdowns don't help, they just damage the economy. On top of that, they often increase infections within families. In the current phase of the plandemic, avoiding huge crowds in very air-restricted spaces is the advice given by most epidemiologists.
• Masks in the hands of the common man create more problems than solutions, particularly in poorer countries where few can afford 2-3 fresh new FFP3 masks daily. They touch their masks, use them for a long time etc. - just stick with advice #1 - avoid large crowds air-locked spaces
• Vaccines don't solve anything! The only remaining hope is that they reduce symptoms, but newest data from Israel, Island, Ontario etc. put even that in question! (
  ) Just the opposite, the vaccines seem to require the virus to constantly create new variants against which the vaccines become less useful.
• On top of that, new data also confirms former so-called 'conspiracy theories' that the virus seems to trigger the development of ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement) against which vaccinated people are considerably more vulnerable than non-vaccinated ones ( https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-french-study-published-in-journal-of-infections-claims-that-ade-or-antibody-dependent-enhancement-is-occurring-in-delta-variant-infections , https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext)
• as a result, only risk groups should receive the vaccine. It is in public health interest to NOT give these vaccines to healthy people below 65 years of age who don't have any health issues (let alone children)

The most rational way would be to define an 'exit scenario' for the country, after which a controlled viral spread is 'allowed', and risk groups are invited (not pushed) to protect themselves with the vaccines. Also, work on alternative vaccination techniques (maybe Novavax etc.) is recommended, just as more research into cheap alternative early treatments like with Ivermectin, herbs to push immune responses etc. etc.  THE VIRUS WILL NO GO AWAY, particularly not with these vaccines, and they may well turn out more dangerous for the test patients than helpful in the long run once more variants pop up.

Edited August 15, 2021 by pepi2005

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, geisha said:

Most of Europe has the Pass Sanitaire which you get after you are vaccinated with a QR code. As from this weekend, every restaurant, bigger shops, coffee bar, bus, train, flight obliges you to use the downloaded app ( government protected) when you wish to go anywhere where there is public.

So what about those who aren't the proud possessors of suitable smartphones on which to download the whizzo app they're supposed to use? Looks like they, in effect, find themselves in a state of permanent house arrest!

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, stuandjulie said:

To limit the death/long covid/ Hospital overload It would seem that is the only option until nearly full vaccination is achieved. No-one else has come up with another idea.

I hate to pop your idealistic bubble, such a beast as achieving full vaccination will not exist anywhere. 

Any country that succeeds in attaining a ceiling off 65%-70% vaccination rate will be blessed.

Edited August 15, 2021 by zzaa09