Buying house while married to a Thai - do they control source of funds?

[Myran]

Hello everyone,

 

The wife and I have been looking at some houses at new developments from different companies in Ubon, which we would pay for with money sent from abroad to my Thai bank account. One of the bigger developers mentioned that they have now started to "check where the money comes from" when a Thai woman married to a foreigner buys a house. The wife old me about it afterwards, so I couldn't inquire further what they actually meant. I was under the impression that you only had to sign a paper at the land office, basically saying that the money used to buy the house/land is the sole property of the woman, since foreigners aren't allowed to own land.

 

Has anyone else heard anything about this?

[thaibeachlovers]

Oh dear. Try reading the divorce subforum to get an idea of what traps can be laid for a farang that buys a house in LOS.

NO, YOU don't own the land even if YOU paid for it. Seems to me that you have zero rights to that property soon as the papers are signed.

Some posters are sure to talk about the ways to ensure you can live in it if get divorced or she dies, but if the family want to make life unpleasant there is sod all YOU can do about it, IN MY OPINION.

 

Personally I'd rather have been castrated with a rusty razor blade than buy/ build a house for my wife, and was saved from that particular hell on earth when we got divorced because I ignored all her hints to build a house in the village.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, Myran said:

One of the bigger developers mentioned that they have now started to "check where the money comes from" when a Thai woman married to a foreigner buys a house.

That's probably true. To stop money laundering.

Some years ago I read that the government was going to prosecute farangs that gave money to wives to build houses as they couldn't own them, or something like that. I don't know if that is still in force or if they changed their minds.

[Bangkokhatter]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's probably true. To stop money laundering.

Some years ago I read that the government was going to prosecute farangs that gave money to wives to build houses as they couldn't own them, or something like that. I don't know if that is still in force or if they changed their minds.

Maybe you should stop commenting on topics you have no experience of ?.

OP the developer is just informing your wife that if you as the Husband are paying cash for the house then the money must come from overseas. Your Thai bank can assist you with the form you need.

The Land Office will also ask you to sign a form when you register the purchase that you have no rights of ownership, may be not correct description but same meaning.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Bangkokhatter
more polite

[Myran]

5 minutes ago, Bangkokhatter said:

Maybe you should stop commenting on topics you have no experience of ?.

OP the developer is just informing your wife that if you as the Husband are paying cash for the house then the money must come from overseas. Your Thai bank can assist you with the form you need.

The Land Office will also ask you to sign a form when you register the purchase that you have no rights of ownership, may be not correct description but same meaning.

Thanks. I knew you have to prove the funds come from overseas when buying a condo as a foreigner, but I haven't heard about that being a necessity when your wife buys a house with your money.

[couchpotato]

6 minutes ago, Myran said:

Thanks. I knew you have to prove the funds come from overseas when buying a condo as a foreigner, but I haven't heard about that being a necessity when your wife buys a house with your money.

Its NOT  (other posters are wrong on this and maybe shouldn't comment on matters they know nothing about)....Condo yes (because normally in the foreigners name), but for a house the Land Office have no interest where the money comes from, but if the lady is married to a foreigner then (as posted above) he will be required to sign that the house has been purchased with her own funds.

 

( As the OP hasn't asked about what happens if divorced, wife kicks him out, wife dies etc...then no need to get into that scenario now). 

[Eibot]

I assume you buy the whole house cash? If so, they merely like to see the money comes from abroad. They don't give a flying crack how you obtained the money abroad, they just want proof that the money is not illegally produced in Thailand.  

Personally I have never heard of this being the case when your wife buys the house and only with condo's, but the selling company can just make rules up as they go. You should be fine just showing it's an international transfer. 

 

Thailand only cares about money laundering when the money moves out of the country. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Eibot
..

[sungod]

52 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear. Try reading the divorce subforum to get an idea of what traps can be laid for a farang that buys a house in LOS.

NO, YOU don't own the land even if YOU paid for it. Seems to me that you have zero rights to that property soon as the papers are signed.

Some posters are sure to talk about the ways to ensure you can live in it if get divorced or she dies, but if the family want to make life unpleasant there is sod all YOU can do about it, IN MY OPINION.

 

Personally I'd rather have been castrated with a rusty razor blade than buy/ build a house for my wife, and was saved from that particular hell on earth when we got divorced because I ignored all her hints to build a house in the village.

Get off the sauce mate, you answered a question that wasn't asked.

[sungod]

To the OP,

 

I've financed many deals in my wife's name.

 

Land office says nothing about source of funds, they may ask for your passport and get you to sign and relinquish any rights on the land/house.

 

Up to you at the end of the day.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

Thai law allows the policeman / officer who confiscated ill gotten assets to obtain 25% of the

value, while the snitch can keep 30%.

this should be remembered as a warning by all expats who move money to thailand.

google : dutch man 100 years jail thailand 

Edited September 2, 2021 by SCOTT FITZGERSLD

[Myran]

Thank you for all the answers. All my funds come from overseas, but they have been transferred on a monthly basis during the course of several years rather than as a lump sum, so it might be difficult to prove everything originated outside of Thailand.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

bangkok bank has this form:

not sure what happans if you do not tell the truth with this form.

 

 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 minute ago, Myran said:

it might be difficult to prove everything originated outside of Thailand.

bank keep records of all transfers for 10 years

[Myran]

3 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

bank keep records of all transfers for 10 years

Great, hopefully the land office/property company will be happy with whatever statement the bank can issue. Thanks for the info.

[yeahbutif]

Would like to point out as this op is married he will have to sign paper's at land office.. for some thing's not sure what .   But we had a problem as she is married But  not to me ....  So we could not buy the house..as had to have her husbands sign...

[Eibot]

56 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

Thai law allows the policeman / officer who confiscated ill gotten assets to obtain 25% of the

value, while the snitch can keep 30%.

this should be remembered as a warning by all expats who move money to thailand.

google : dutch man 100 years jail thailand 

AS a fellow Dutch man, I can say that had absolutely ZERO to do with his money moving to Thailand. Lol.

[Nojohndoe]

As far as I know there still exists a Thai statute that states that a foreigner who supplies the finance for land via spouse is invalid and subject to dispossession. I believe the statute was to prevent aqcuisition of land via marriages of convenience or other manipulations. Ironically there is no statute that  limits the "gifting" of financial assets to a spouse or  any other.

The exception is the "Condo Rules" which apply in  specific zones  and NOT anywhere . That is because the purchase  of a dwelling which does not involve the land it stands on  is treated differently basically because  a Condominium complex '"leases" the  land it stands on. Perhaps same applies to Housing Estates? Similarly where the Condo Rules do not apply a foreigner can lease land which has a individual  Chanote  ( Title  Deed )  for a maximum period of  30 years which may or may not be extended for a further 30 years. In that situation a foreigner can build a house which can be registered as  his/her personal asset or use the land subject to the terms of the lease and compliance to all and any Thai law pertaining to the entire property .

A contradiction to the overall issue of  land ownership that is relatively unknown and  again as  far as I know is still valid is that a foreigner can inherit land from a Thai spouse  (subject to a legitimate Will) so long as the land area is not in excess of  1 Rai. However having read through the process it appears to be lengthy, complex and therefore expensive to defy competition from extended Thai  family.

But  despite what the "law" is the Land Office is unlikely to question the source of funds because  in the process of transfer of title there is no capacity for a foreigner to be involved.  The Land Office is more interested in the price paid so as to apply the fees  "tax" which they  may determine based on a value greater than that declared if they suspect unrealistically understated. That occurs because the seller and buyer often agree to split the fee so are in agreement to try minimize it.

So ultimately so long as the funds are acknowledged to have been received from the  hands or account of a Thai , spouse or not, there is never a question.  How that is perceived as being in the "control" would be a matter of personal opinion.

As an aside to your question there is a contradiction observed in divorce court rulings  where a  foreign husband is accorded 50% of the value in property settlements despite theoretically disallowed funding it originally via "gifting" the money to the spouse which in some aspects  makes it personal asset rather than marital. A reasonable  recognition of  reality despite conflict of statutes.

I offer my opinion openly subject to correction by the better informed and wish you success .

 

 

[Gottfrid]

2 hours ago, Bangkokhatter said:

Maybe you should stop commenting on topics you have no experience of ?.

OP the developer is just informing your wife that if you as the Husband are paying cash for the house then the money must come from overseas. Your Thai bank can assist you with the form you need.

The Land Office will also ask you to sign a form when you register the purchase that you have no rights of ownership, may be not correct description but same meaning.

Pure BS! You can just give your wife the money and she can pay the house. She will own it anyway, so what´s the big deal? Actually the developer can inform as much as he or she want´s. It has no meaning and what you state is not legal. According to the law, you are not allowed to pay for the house or land. You are only allowed to buy or invest in condos, where a minimum of 51% of the condos in the building are owned by Thais.

[Myran]

On a related note: do you think it would be better to keep the money in my bank account or transfer it to my wife's?

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

55 minutes ago, Eibot said:

I can say that had absolutely ZERO to do with his money moving to Thailand. Lol.

it has everything to do with his money moving to thailand, because moving the money to thailand

allow thailand to judge this money according to thai money layndry laws.

in thailand money from cannabis sales is dirty money, and in netherlands it is not.

[Eibot]

24 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

it has everything to do with his money moving to thailand, because moving the money to thailand

allow thailand to judge this money according to thai money layndry laws.

in thailand money from cannabis sales is dirty money, and in netherlands it is not.

The Dutch police ASKED the Thai police to arrest him on Money laundering claims IN THE Netherlands. Thailand then decided for themselves to keep him for a prolonged period because of they were told his money (which was also in thailand) was dirty. If the Dutch government never asked the Thai government, he would be sipping a beer right now on a nice beach. 

If he paid his taxes over the cannabis money in The Netherlands, moved his money to Thailand, then they would never see the money as dirty (even though it's obtained from the sales of cannabis). 

Problem here is tax offensive IN the Netherlands. The Thai government solely moved onto him at the request of the Dutch government. At the moment John is a free man in The Netherlands, after serving a couple of years for his tax offenses. 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

that would be rich indeed….. thailand being the offshore money laundering capital of SE Asia, blacklisted as such by USA and EU …..but developers here “asking where the money came from”…… to check for “ money laundering “ ……. so funny …..and ….er, no…they couldnt give a flying <deleted>……..

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

then I see referenve to “money laundering laws” …..in thailand ! ….just cracks me up…….

something like the old soviet laws “protecting” workers rights I suppose….where the exact opposite of the written “law” actually practised……

 

 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Myran said:

On a related note: do you think it would be better to keep the money in my bank account or transfer it to my wife's?

TBH, I did not read many of the replies as usual lot of back and forth.

 

Just relating what happened with myself earlier this year. (I'm not married)..

I purchased my partner a townhouse. I transferred funds from my country using Wise (3 separate transfers due to amount). Money remained in my account.

For transfer I had Bank Cheque drawn up with details provided by owner.

At the Land Office, I signed form that basically stated that I forgo any rights to money that I provided. 

Of course for folk that want to have some legal claim to the asset it's more complicated and proof of providing funds etc would be required in the future.

If married my understanding is that your only entitled to 50% equity even if you provided all funds.

Others will confirm or otherwise.

Edited September 2, 2021 by DrJack54

[couchpotato]

3 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

Thai law allows the policeman / officer who confiscated ill gotten assets to obtain 25% of the

value, while the snitch can keep 30%.

this should be remembered as a warning by all expats who move money to thailand.

google : dutch man 100 years jail thailand 

I don't know what you've been drinking today, but maybe better to be sober before posting.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Thailand has this year updated its anti-money laundering laws and part of the new regulations requires brokers and agents involved in the sale of immovable property to report cash transactions above a certain level to AMLO and to also report suspicious transactions. As a result, brokers and agents may well ask about the source of funds in order to properly document their files and comply with know your customer requirements. 

 

This has nothing to do with the Land Department.

[rwill]

Just bought 2+ rai a few days ago.  The land office wanted my passport and I had to sign papers that I have no rights to the property.  As far as paying for the property they had nothing to do with it.  I transferred the funds from my account to the land owner after we obtained the chanote.  If you want to protect yourself get your wife/girlfriend to give you a 30 year lease on the property.  

 

The first property we bought here my wife went in alone but when they saw the last name on her Thai ID was a farang name they told her I had to come in and sign the paperwork.  But if she had a Thai name on her ID they would not even have known I was involved too.

 

This is just for actual land purchases.  Building purchases are different as you can legally own them.

[hotchilli]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:02 PM, Myran said:

Thanks. I knew you have to prove the funds come from overseas when buying a condo as a foreigner, but I haven't heard about that being a necessity when your wife buys a house with your money.

They want to know where the money came from.. you or the wife, that's all.

 

[brianthainess]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:13 PM, yeahbutif said:

So we could not buy the house..as had to have her husbands sign...

How many 'husbands' does she have?

[Russell17au]

When my Thai wife and I decided to buy our house I decided that I would not pay cash but instead go through a bank loan process and that way if anything happened between my wife and I and we divorced then I would not lose the whole amount for the house and she would then be responsible to continue with the bank payments. With the signing of the loan documents I was asked to sign a "gift" document which was a declaration that the money that I paid on the house was a gift to my wife and that I had no claim on it if anything happened. It was the same at the land office saying that I had no right to the property. The other bit of protection that you could have is to take out a "usufruct" when the titles are transferred to your wife at the lands office and this usufruct is good for 30 years. The best thing is to check on Google about "usufructs" as compared to a lease. I believe that a usufruct is more legally binding on what the Thai partner can do.