delta will hunt the unvacinated

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10005097/Covid-Delta-variant-hunt-whos-not-jab-scientific-advisers-warn-No-10.html

[Chomper Higgot]

COVID is hunting all of us.

 

The unvaccinated are it’s easy prey.

[Rimmer]

Troll post and replies removed, please see the description of the covid forum:

 

Thailand COVID-19 Updates (Sponsored by Aetna Insurance)

A forum dedicated to information and discussion related to the current pandemic in Thailand and around the world.

[Virt]

The unvaccinated people not only risk their own life, but also the life of others and those that has to treat them.

This doc says what a lot of people feels.

 

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-08-17/vaccinated-covid-doctor-shot

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts removed.  Keep it civil or face a suspension.

[gk10012001]

5 hours ago, Virt said:

The unvaccinated people not only risk their own life, but also the life of others and those that has to treat them.

This doc says what a lot of people feels.

 

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-08-17/vaccinated-covid-doctor-shot

Stop trying to be so divisive.   A person's choice to vaccinate or not is theirs.  If you think vaccines are so great and reliable then you should have nothing to worry about if you get vaccinated.  Anybody can carry and transmit the virus, the millions of unvaccinated children running around, the hundreds of thousands that pack football and baseball stadiums jammed elbow to elbow, the vaccinated that do NOT wear masks, etc.  They are taking much less precaustions than they could to protect others.  Pointing at unvacced people is a false argument

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

Stop trying to be so divisive.   A person's choice to vaccinate or not is theirs.  If you think vaccines are so great and reliable then you should have nothing to worry about if you get vaccinated.  Anybody can carry and transmit the virus, the millions of unvaccinated children running around, the hundreds of thousands that pack football and baseball stadiums jammed elbow to elbow, the vaccinated that do NOT wear masks, etc.  They are taking much less precaustions than they could to protect others.  Pointing at unvacced people is a false argument

I’d hazard a guess that the people (adults) acting contrary to the public health advice are predominantly also the people refusing vaccination.

 

It would not be a surprise to see them failing to ensure their children follow public health advice, perhaps screaming and shouting in school board meetings against mask mandates for students.

 

 

So in a sense you are right, it’s not simply the (by choice) unvaccinated, rather the whole basket of pro-Virus attitudes and behaviors.

[Chomper Higgot]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

The data from Israel has been examined multiple times in this forum.

 

The data clearly demonstrates the significant reduction in serious illness, hospitalizations and deaths amongst those who are vaccinated over those who are not.

 

Also explained many times is the misuse of ‘case numbers’, vaccinated people suffering a mild outcome are not comparable with unvaccinated people suffering severe outcomes, while both have equal weighting in ‘case numbers’.

 

That such glaring discrepancies appear in an un published non peer reviewed ‘draft report’ is not a surprise.

 

Neither is it a surprise that such a clearly suspect report is latched onto and repeated ad nauseam by Anti-Vaxxers.

 

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

32 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

Stop trying to be so divisive.   A person's choice to vaccinate or not is theirs.  If you think vaccines are so great and reliable then you should have nothing to worry about if you get vaccinated.  Anybody can carry and transmit the virus, the millions of unvaccinated children running around, the hundreds of thousands that pack football and baseball stadiums jammed elbow to elbow, the vaccinated that do NOT wear masks, etc.  They are taking much less precaustions than they could to protect others.  Pointing at unvacced people is a false argument

Actually, if in the interest of public health, it's not theirs. Especially when the anti vaxxers are relying on dodgy media outlets and conspiracy theories.

 

Right now, the unvaccinated are our biggest problem. Sad some can't seem to understand this.

[BestB]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Utter nonsense. Israel has an average 8000 daily infections, where as Thailand has double that.

Israel has 670- 700 people in the hospital, seriously ill, Thailand has around 4000

 

Israel patients are mostly unvaccinated and ones who are double jabbed but needing medical care are mainly over 65 years old with pre conditions. 50% of the cases are from children

 

Stop spreading fake and false information or provide a link to support your claims

[Virt]

49 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

Stop trying to be so divisive.   A person's choice to vaccinate or not is theirs.  If you think vaccines are so great and reliable then you should have nothing to worry about if you get vaccinated.  Anybody can carry and transmit the virus, the millions of unvaccinated children running around, the hundreds of thousands that pack football and baseball stadiums jammed elbow to elbow, the vaccinated that do NOT wear masks, etc.  They are taking much less precaustions than they could to protect others.  Pointing at unvacced people is a false argument

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_whttps://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_w

 

Yes i believe in the vaccines.

Yes i will get my 3rd and 4th or 5th shot if needed, if that is what it takes to get this world back on it's feet.

 

We all have a responsible to get the wheels moving again, and so far it seems that the vaccines are the best option.

They minimize the risk of getting covid 19, they minimize the chance of being submitted to hospitals and they minimize the chance of dying.

Why say no to the vaccines, when the data shows how safe they are compared to covid 19.

 

We need the vaccines so we can move on, so we don't have to live forever with lockdowns, masks and social distancing etc.

 

Those who get their shots at least try and do something about the problem.

Sorry but i fail to see what the other side are bringing to the table.

[Scott]

A post with an unsubstantiated claim has been removed along with replies.  

 

[EVENKEEL]

I find it amusing when folks talk about the good of the nation when they take the juice. Do it for other people's sake, for God's Sake. Please, stop the theatrics, we take the vaccine in the hope's of not being a statistic in a hospital.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I find it amusing when folks talk about the good of the nation when they take the juice. Do it for other people's sake, for God's Sake. Please, stop the theatrics, we take the vaccine in the hope's of not being a statistic in a hospital.

You know that old joke about people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time? I got news for you. Some people can.

Or to put it another way: speak for yourself.

Edited September 20, 2021 by placeholder

[Scott]

31 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I find it amusing when folks talk about the good of the nation when they take the juice. Do it for other people's sake, for God's Sake. Please, stop the theatrics, we take the vaccine in the hope's of not being a statistic in a hospital.

I think different people will have different reasons.  Mine was reasonably selfish.  I didn't want to get sick.   I know people who plan to get it only because they have to in order to work.  I know people in my home area who are taking to attend University.  I now know one young person who was adamant he wasn't going to take it, until the local live-music venue said no vaccine, no entry!  

Some people are really social and can't take the isolation and distance from family.  Others have less problem with it.  When things were locked down, I had very few problems with it.  I knew other people who suffered terribly from the isolation.  

 

[EVENKEEL]

6 minutes ago, Scott said:

I think different people will have different reasons.  Mine was reasonably selfish.  I didn't want to get sick.   I know people who plan to get it only because they have to in order to work.  I know people in my home area who are taking to attend University.  I now know one young person who was adamant he wasn't going to take it, until the local live-music venue said no vaccine, no entry!  

Some people are really social and can't take the isolation and distance from family.  Others have less problem with it.  When things were locked down, I had very few problems with it.  I knew other people who suffered terribly from the isolation.  

 

 I'm getting my first today for self preservation and travel requirements. All the reasons you gave are the true reasons to get vaccinated. And for the sake of those in my immediate household. I know folks in the US and here in Thailand who are not taking the vaccine and I won't avoid them. They make their own choice for their own reasons.

 

The only reason for taking the vaccine that irks me is when we're told to take one for the team?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I find it amusing when folks talk about the good of the nation when they take the juice. Do it for other people's sake, for God's Sake. Please, stop the theatrics, we take the vaccine in the hope's of not being a statistic in a hospital.

I know it’s difficult for some to

even imagine altruism might play a part in the decisions others make.

 

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I know it’s difficult for some to

even imagine altruism might play a part in the decisions others make.

 

Hey, whatever helps you make it through the day.

[Chomper Higgot]

The evidence is clear, the Delta Variant is highly contagious and causes a significantly greater incidence of serious illness, hospitalizations and death amongst the non-vaccinated.

 

In the face of such morbid reality the question is not why people choose to take the vaccines, rather why so many do not.

 

And if we are ever to go even near the question of the part altruism plays for some in accepting the vaccine, then surely we ought also examine the motivations of those who spend time and effort trying to discourage others from getting the vaccine.

 

Spreading misinformation, outright falsehoods and repeatedly posting or referring to claims and or data/reports that have been roundly debunked.

 

We know the virus is extremely infectious and often has dire consequences for the infected, up to and including a horrible death.

 

What goes on in the head of people campaigning against the safe and effective vaccines?

 

That’s a question that deserves an answer.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Hey, whatever helps you make it through the day.

Yes, the vaccine does it’s bit.

[2long]

I find it quite ironic that this thread starts with a link to the Daily Fail/Mail.

For those who are not British, this rag is a tabloid among the lowest of the low. Not worth the paper it's printed on.

 

As for the whole vaccine argument, still nobody has made it clear to me how this works...

'You have the vaccine to protect others from getting Covid, as well as protecting yourself getting serious symptoms'

and

'Even if you have had all the jabs, you can still get Covid and pass it on to others.'

 

So, if vaccinated people can still become infected and infectious, how is it protecting those around them?

 

To me, it all stinks of a plan by the drug companies to cash in on an annual basis worldwide! I'm not saying Covid isn't real, because it is. I'm not an anti-vaxxer and I have had an AZ jab. I'm not saying the illuminati is trying to reduce the world's population, because that's nonsense. But what I do think is that the huge drug companies are loving this, and they wield a HUGE amount of power over politicians, especially in the USA. 10 years from now, we will all be having annual shots that governments may not subsidise... and even if they do pay for them, the drug companies get paid anyway.

[Kanada]

13 minutes ago, 2long said:

I find it quite ironic that this thread starts with a link to the Daily Fail/Mail.

For those who are not British, this rag is a tabloid among the lowest of the low. Not worth the paper it's printed on.

 

As for the whole vaccine argument, still nobody has made it clear to me how this works...

'You have the vaccine to protect others from getting Covid, as well as protecting yourself getting serious symptoms'

and

'Even if you have had all the jabs, you can still get Covid and pass it on to others.'

 

So, if vaccinated people can still become infected and infectious, how is it protecting those around them?

 

To me, it all stinks of a plan by the drug companies to cash in on an annual basis worldwide! I'm not saying Covid isn't real, because it is. I'm not an anti-vaxxer and I have had an AZ jab. I'm not saying the illuminati is trying to reduce the world's population, because that's nonsense. But what I do think is that the huge drug companies are loving this, and they wield a HUGE amount of power over politicians, especially in the USA. 10 years from now, we will all be having annual shots that governments may not subsidise... and even if they do pay for them, the drug companies get paid anyway.

There are always people that get wealthy during any catastrophe…or war!

What is the point you’re attempting to make?
You don’t like it because someone is making money? or are you saying it’s in some companies best interest to keep the virus alive and thriving or…..?

 

[placeholder]

30 minutes ago, 2long said:

I find it quite ironic that this thread starts with a link to the Daily Fail/Mail.

For those who are not British, this rag is a tabloid among the lowest of the low. Not worth the paper it's printed on.

 

As for the whole vaccine argument, still nobody has made it clear to me how this works...

'You have the vaccine to protect others from getting Covid, as well as protecting yourself getting serious symptoms'

and

'Even if you have had all the jabs, you can still get Covid and pass it on to others.'

 

So, if vaccinated people can still become infected and infectious, how is it protecting those around them?

 

 

I understand exactly what you mean. It's like seatbelts. They don't make you invulnerable if your car crashes, so why use them? Who cares if they reduce the odds of getting seriously injured or dying? Any measure that offers less than a 100% guarantee is absolutely worthless.

Edited September 21, 2021 by placeholder

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, 2long said:

I find it quite ironic that this thread starts with a link to the Daily Fail/Mail.

For those who are not British, this rag is a tabloid among the lowest of the low. Not worth the paper it's printed on.

 

As for the whole vaccine argument, still nobody has made it clear to me how this works...

'You have the vaccine to protect others from getting Covid, as well as protecting yourself getting serious symptoms'

and

'Even if you have had all the jabs, you can still get Covid and pass it on to others.'

 

So, if vaccinated people can still become infected and infectious, how is it protecting those around them?

 

To me, it all stinks of a plan by the drug companies to cash in on an annual basis worldwide! I'm not saying Covid isn't real, because it is. I'm not an anti-vaxxer and I have had an AZ jab. I'm not saying the illuminati is trying to reduce the world's population, because that's nonsense. But what I do think is that the huge drug companies are loving this, and they wield a HUGE amount of power over politicians, especially in the USA. 10 years from now, we will all be having annual shots that governments may not subsidise... and even if they do pay for them, the drug companies get paid anyway.

The truth or otherwise of your ten year prediction will only be revealed to those who live that long, the vaccines raise your chances of doing so.

 

To clarify the points you raise.

 

Nothing in this world is perfect, including vaccines.

 

However, the vaccines significantly reduce the chances of serious illness, hospitalization and death from COVID.

 

The vaccines also significantly reduce the  opportunity for the virus to spread.

 

So yes, you can still catch COVID after vaccination but you are much less likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized or die  than you would be without the vaccines.

 

Yes you can still transmit the disease but you are less likely to spread it to others.

 

 

 

[Kanada]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The truth or otherwise of your ten year prediction will only be revealed to those who live that long, the vaccines raise your chances of doing so.

 

To clarify the points you raise.

 

Nothing in this world is perfect, including vaccines.

 

However, the vaccines significantly reduce the chances of serious illness, hospitalization and death from COVID.

 

The vaccines also significantly reduce the  opportunity for the virus to spread.

 

So yes, you can still catch COVID after vaccination but you are much less likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized or die  than you would be without the vaccines.

 

Yes you can still transmit the disease but you are less likely to spread it to others.

 

 

 

I find it sad that someone has to actually write an explanation like this for the benefit of another adult !

If they don’t understand the purpose of vaccinations by now they never will…

[Scott]

11 minutes ago, 2long said:

I find it quite ironic that this thread starts with a link to the Daily Fail/Mail.

For those who are not British, this rag is a tabloid among the lowest of the low. Not worth the paper it's printed on.

 

As for the whole vaccine argument, still nobody has made it clear to me how this works...

'You have the vaccine to protect others from getting Covid, as well as protecting yourself getting serious symptoms'

and

'Even if you have had all the jabs, you can still get Covid and pass it on to others.'

 

So, if vaccinated people can still become infected and infectious, how is it protecting those around them?

 

To me, it all stinks of a plan by the drug companies to cash in on an annual basis worldwide! I'm not saying Covid isn't real, because it is. I'm not an anti-vaxxer and I have had an AZ jab. I'm not saying the illuminati is trying to reduce the world's population, because that's nonsense. But what I do think is that the huge drug companies are loving this, and they wield a HUGE amount of power over politicians, especially in the USA. 10 years from now, we will all be having annual shots that governments may not subsidise... and even if they do pay for them, the drug companies get paid anyway.

This has a lot to do with how the viruses in general work.  When you come in contact with the virus, it begins to replicate.  Your body will identify it as something foreign and will attack it, but without some help --like a vaccine-- your body can't easily identify the specific protein on the spike.  Our immune system's cells start mutating and those mutations might get lucky and find the right combination and we either don't sick or have a mild case.  

Vaccines do not stop any virus.  They tell the immune system what it should be fighting.  Our immune system then makes the right combination to prevent the virus from either entering a cell or from replicating.  

But whether it is a cold, the influenza or any other respiratory based viral infection, once in our body it will begin to replicate.   We might be able to fight it off and we may not get sick.  Usually, viruses don't start massively shedding viral material until we are already sick.   In the case of Covid-19, that is not exactly the case, the viral shedding making us contagious can occur well before we feel sick.  With the original Covid and the early variants, the shedding was minimal in fully vaccinated people and thus the risk of infection to others was low.  Delta has changed all that.  I don't think virologists know exactly why, but it manages to start shedding faster and better in both unvaccinated and vaccinated people.  The difference is, vaccinated people will usually still mount a good defense to the variant and you have a good chance of not ending up in the hospital or morgue.  

Everybody is a little different in their immune response and Coronaviruses are tricky.  A couple of coronaviruses are responsible for the common cold.  Attempts to find a vaccine have been largely unsuccessful.  They can get a vaccine that works, but the immune system doesn't remember for long enough to be effective.  Several months later, we can get reinfected.   We still have a lot to learn about Covid.  

[morrobay]

Cross reactive T cell response to covid produced from exposure/infection from the other circulating coronaviruses is a fact. So the takeaway here is that those who have immunity from the other Coronaviruses are more protected. I'm not trying to sell any thing here, but consider your history of seasonable flu: if you have not had any flu symptoms for many years perhaps that is an indicator as to whether you need to get vaccinated. In other words having a strong immune response to the common flu can be related to covid response. .https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1386653221001141

Edited September 21, 2021 by morrobay

[placeholder]

40 minutes ago, Scott said:

This has a lot to do with how the viruses in general work.  When you come in contact with the virus, it begins to replicate.  Your body will identify it as something foreign and will attack it, but without some help --like a vaccine-- your body can't easily identify the specific protein on the spike.  Our immune system's cells start mutating and those mutations might get lucky and find the right combination and we either don't sick or have a mild case.  

Vaccines do not stop any virus.  They tell the immune system what it should be fighting.  Our immune system then makes the right combination to prevent the virus from either entering a cell or from replicating.  

But whether it is a cold, the influenza or any other respiratory based viral infection, once in our body it will begin to replicate.   We might be able to fight it off and we may not get sick.  Usually, viruses don't start massively shedding viral material until we are already sick.   In the case of Covid-19, that is not exactly the case, the viral shedding making us contagious can occur well before we feel sick.  With the original Covid and the early variants, the shedding was minimal in fully vaccinated people and thus the risk of infection to others was low.  Delta has changed all that.  I don't think virologists know exactly why, but it manages to start shedding faster and better in both unvaccinated and vaccinated people.  The difference is, vaccinated people will usually still mount a good defense to the variant and you have a good chance of not ending up in the hospital or morgue.  

Everybody is a little different in their immune response and Coronaviruses are tricky.  A couple of coronaviruses are responsible for the common cold.  Attempts to find a vaccine have been largely unsuccessful.  They can get a vaccine that works, but the immune system doesn't remember for long enough to be effective.  Several months later, we can get reinfected.   We still have a lot to learn about Covid.  

Are you sure about this? 

Here are 2 definitions of infection. 

'The invasion and growth of germs in the body. The germs may be bacteria, viruses, yeast, fungi, or other microorganisms. Infections can begin anywhere in thebody and may spread all through it. An infection can cause fever and other health problems, depending on where it occurs in the body...

https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/infection

 

"The invasion and multiplication of microorganisms such as bacteria, viruses, and parasites that are not normally present within the body. "

https://www.medicinenet.com/infection/definition.htm

 

I have found no definition of "infection" that says it is merely the entrance of a bacteria or virus into the body. There has to be reproduction of bacteria or virus to occur before it is said to be an infection.  Yet the CDC is explicit in saying that vaccines can prevent infection.

 

"COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing infection, serious illness, and death. Most people who get COVID-19 are unvaccinated. However, since vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing infection, some people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19."

 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html#:~:text=COVID-19 vaccines are,get COVID-19.

 

 

 

[Scott]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Are you sure about this? 

Here are 2 definitions of infection. 

'The invasion and growth of germs in the body. The germs may be bacteria, viruses, yeast, fungi, or other microorganisms. Infections can begin anywhere in thebody and may spread all through it. An infection can cause fever and other health problems, depending on where it occurs in the body...

https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/infection

 

"The invasion and multiplication of microorganisms such as bacteria, viruses, and parasites that are not normally present within the body. "

https://www.medicinenet.com/infection/definition.htm

 

I have found no definition of "infection" that says it is merely the entrance of a bacteria or virus into the body. There has to be reproduction of bacteria or virus to occur before it is said to be an infection.  Yet the CDC is explicit in saying that vaccines can prevent infection.

 

"COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing infection, serious illness, and death. Most people who get COVID-19 are unvaccinated. However, since vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing infection, some people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19."

 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html#:~:text=COVID-19 vaccines are,get COVID-19.

 

I am talking only about viruses and primarily the Coronaviruses.  I am not trying to redefine 'infection'.  Of course, a person is not infected or infectious until a virus starts to replicate. 

 

I am trying to explain as simply as possible another poster. 

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Scott said:

I am talking only about viruses and primarily the Coronaviruses.  I am not trying to redefine 'infection'.  Of course, a person is not infected or infectious until a virus starts to replicate. 

 

I am trying to explain as simply as possible another poster. 

But it doesn't seem to be necessarily the case that when you come into contact with a virus it begins to replicate. It seems that vaccines can stop that from happening.