Op-Ed: Thai view on the new AUKUS alliance

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5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Just one example of uninvited intrusion.
 

By the way, why are there so many US military bases overseas. Last count 119 in Germany, 119 Japan, 73 in SK, 44 Italy as well as more than a dozen countries. Seem intimidating. 
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/us-navy-freedom-of-navigation-operation-india-waters-without-consent-7265898/

You mean unlike Chinese claims that the South China Sea belongs to them? How do you think countries that border on the South China Sea feel about that? Has the US built any islands there lately? Islands that are used as an excuse to encroach on the internationally recognized jurisdictions of other nations? And then there are the Chinese attacks in the Himalayas on Indian  territory.

Edited September 21, 2021 by placeholder

[chalawaan]

No mention that the cost overruns were partly that the French, a major nuclear power themselves, had to denuclearize the design of their subs for the RAN to begin with! No wonder they are <deleted> off.

Also, the other NATO allies have every right to wonder if the US can be trusted after this hubristic stunt, not that they have much choice. Take it or kiss the Pandas grubby wide butt. 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by chalawaan

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5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Just one example of uninvited intrusion.
 

By the way, why are there so many US military bases overseas. Last count 119 in Germany, 119 Japan, 73 in SK, 44 Italy as well as more than a dozen countries. Seem intimidating. 
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/us-navy-freedom-of-navigation-operation-india-waters-without-consent-7265898/

There's also the Chinese practice of lending corrupt governments huge loans to build pointless project and when the bills come due and can't be paid, exacting brutal concessions from them.

[mfd101]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

SEA enjoy a nuclear free zone and not be a target to any nuclear wars. Meanwhile Australia has now join the nuclear club and will be a target. Wonder if this nuclear alliance has the consent of the Australian people. Is it worth it. 

The initial public opinion surveys in Oz after the announcement startle even me: Positive reactions in the 80%s from Liberal & National voters, 60-70% from ALP voters and 50% from Greens voters. Similar results on eventual move to nuclear power across the continent.

[mahtin]

https://nationworldnews.com/eu-launches-new-program-to-fight-red-chinas-debt-trap-diplomacy/

[Moonlover]

39 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

To be fair to the author, nuclear submarine are inextricably linked with nuclear weapons. All 6 countries in the world that possesses nuclear submarines have nuclear weapons. Nuclear submarines powered with the same enriched uranium that is used in bombs. You don’t acquire nuclear submarines just to cruise around.
 

Australia has forfeited their status as a country linked to the Treaty of Non-proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

 

I personally think it’s a wrong policy as their alliance with US is strong and can provide the nuclear deterrent. Australia action runs contrary to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction in this part of the world. Make this region unsafe against nuclear mishap.  

Sorry but you're making exactly the same mistake as the author is by confusing nuclear powered with nuclear capable.

 

Sure, to drive a nuclear powered submarine (or any other vessel) you need weapons grade fuel, but that is a lifetime once only installation.

 

Australia is not forfeiting its status regarding the Treaty of Non-proliferation of Nuclear Weapons because it is not acquiring any nuclear weapons, nor the means to produce them.

[Tanomazu]

It's not just Thailand:

 

"...few countries were as surprised as Australia’s neighbours to the north, the ASEAN members.

 

In particular, Indonesia and Malaysia have come out strongly against Australia’s plan to acquire a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines with the help of the US and UK. Even Singapore, Australia’s most reliable ally in the region, has expressed concern.

 

First, many of them think there is no such thing as acquiring nuclear-powered submarines without the prospect of acquiring nuclear weapons in the future.

 

Australia has not joined the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, which requires parties to agree not to develop, test, produce, acquire, possess, stockpile or threaten to use nuclear weapons.

 

Both Indonesia (the unofficial leader of ASEAN) and Malaysia fear AUKUS will also lead to a major arms race in the wider Indo-Pacific region."

 

https://theconversation.com/why-is-southeast-asia-so-concerned-about-aukus-and-australias-plans-for-nuclear-submarines-168260

[JustAnotherHun]

Australia should tell the French the reason to buy nuclear subs instead of old fashioned diesel engines is to fight the climate change. 

[Pravda]

22 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

No such thing. Canada is part of the Five Eyes intelligence-gathering and -exchanging agreement.

 

There was some talk

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANZUK

 

 

 

 

[GreasyFingers]

6 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

The initial public opinion surveys in Oz after the announcement startle even me: Positive reactions in the 80%s from Liberal & National voters, 60-70% from ALP voters and 50% from Greens voters. Similar results on eventual move to nuclear power across the continent.

Not really a surprise. The Oz media have been promoting the anti China stuff for quite a while.

[mfd101]

2 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

It's not just Thailand:

 

"...few countries were as surprised as Australia’s neighbours to the north, the ASEAN members.

 

In particular, Indonesia and Malaysia have come out strongly against Australia’s plan to acquire a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines with the help of the US and UK. Even Singapore, Australia’s most reliable ally in the region, has expressed concern.

 

First, many of them think there is no such thing as acquiring nuclear-powered submarines without the prospect of acquiring nuclear weapons in the future.

 

Australia has not joined the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, which requires parties to agree not to develop, test, produce, acquire, possess, stockpile or threaten to use nuclear weapons.

 

Both Indonesia (the unofficial leader of ASEAN) and Malaysia fear AUKUS will also lead to a major arms race in the wider Indo-Pacific region."

 

https://theconversation.com/why-is-southeast-asia-so-concerned-about-aukus-and-australias-plans-for-nuclear-submarines-168260

Interesting then that, as I mentioned above, the Philippines Foreign Secretary said today that he is strongly in favour of the Oz move. He said that ASEAN countries have no military capability to protect peace & stability in the region.

 

The Philippines is of course the country (along with Vietnam) which has to face Chinese aggression on a very large scale every day of the year in the South China Sea (a piece of geography that really could do with a name change!).

[Eric Loh]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You mean unlike Chinese claims that the South China Sea belongs to them? How do you think countries that border on the South China Sea feel about that? Has the US built any islands there lately? Islands that are used as an excuse to encroach on the internationally recognized jurisdictions of other nations? And then there are the Chinese attacks in the Himalayas on Indian  territory.

All 6 countries laid claims on the maritime issue. It is still on-going negotiation between the concerned countries. Been hyped and used as political fodder by US up as though it will lead to a big China invasion. Islands were reclaimed rocks in China territory. Himalayas was a border skirmishes between India and China that lasted few days. 

[mfd101]

3 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

There was some talk

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANZUK

 

 

 

 

Talk is cheap. Action is expensive.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

All 6 countries laid claims on the maritime issue. It is still on-going negotiation between the concerned countries. Been hyped and used as political fodder by US up as though it will lead to a big China invasion. Islands were reclaimed rocks in China territory. Himalayas was a border skirmishes between India and China that lasted few days. 

Its still ongoing because of Chinese aggression and building fake islands in other countries territorial waters. 

[Artisi]

4 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Not really a surprise. The Oz media have been promoting the anti China stuff for quite a while.

.... for good reason. 

China is no different to a spoilt child, if you don't play the way I want, I'll take my football and go home. 

Luckily it seems they are now being helped with directions as to the quickest way there. 

[mfd101]

7 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Not really a surprise. The Oz media have been promoting the anti China stuff for quite a while.

Yes but before there was always a strongly allergic reaction to ANY mention of nuclear power (based of course on the subliminal association of 'nuclear' with nuclear weapons & nuclear war).

[dinsdale]

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

There were some war games where a collins sub sunk a US nuclear sub.

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by dinsdale

[GreasyFingers]

15 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Yes but before there was always a strongly allergic reaction to ANY mention of nuclear power (based of course on the subliminal association of 'nuclear' with nuclear weapons & nuclear war).

Only if you listened to the ABC.

[Pedrogaz]

Usual nonsense from the white English speaking aggressors. Agression, agression agression and then blame the defendant for wanting to defend itself. Let China have her own system, even if you don't like it.

How would you feel (if you were Thai) if China ringed Thailand with hundreds of military bases and told Thailand to change its system and economy to a communist one? 

[ArcticFox]

Op-Ed: Thai view on the new AUKUS alliance

Thailand as well as SE Asia are now members of the Splatter-Zone.

[Tanomazu]

AUKUS changes nothing, it's a paper tiger.

 

It's not like the US capabilities are radically enhanced by a dwarf country like Australia, population 25 million or the sick man of Europe, the UK, where even the NHS can't take care of its own people.

 

We've already known that the US, with Australia and the UK is spying on its allies with Five Eyes. So now they'll do it even more, as if that were even possible.

 

It should surprise noone that the Americans betray ASEAN and EU countries in pursuit of their self-interest. Nor that the Australians wish to crawl under the comforting security blanket of the Americans, given how China whipped them recently. Even if that means Australia becoming yet another colonised military base for the Americans. The Australians are afraid. Of China.

 

Biden probably did this to distract from his catastrophic failure in Afghanistan, to pretend he has a foreign policy of importance, when in reality this is just Five Eyes 2.0.

 

China will be far too prudent to do anything rash, and will continue to build its railway through Thailand, all of Asia in fact. Meanwhile America will have to deal with near civil war conditions at home, the UK with its ailing health service and Australia, well, who cares really.

 

 

 

 

[NeoDinosaw]

6 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Thai subs will be next to useless against these new nuclear attack subs.

 

Oh dear.

The Thai subs were not bought for military purposes ............

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

AUKUS changes nothing, it's a paper tiger.

 

It's not like the US capabilities are radically enhanced by a dwarf country like Australia, population 25 million or the sick man of Europe, the UK, where even the NHS can't take care of its own people.

 

We've already known that the US, with Australia and the UK is spying on its allies with Five Eyes. So now they'll do it even more, as if that were even possible.

 

It should surprise noone that the Americans betray ASEAN and EU countries in pursuit of their self-interest. Nor that the Australians wish to crawl under the comforting security blanket of the Americans, given how China whipped them recently. Even if that means Australia becoming yet another colonised military base for the Americans. The Australians are afraid. Of China.

 

Biden probably did this to distract from his catastrophic failure in Afghanistan, to pretend he has a foreign policy of importance, when in reality this is just Five Eyes 2.0.

 

China will be far too prudent to do anything rash, and will continue to build its railway through Thailand, all of Asia in fact. Meanwhile America will have to deal with near civil war conditions at home, the UK with its ailing health service and Australia, well, who cares really.

 

 

 

 

So why is China having such a hissy fit about it if it does not matter?

No it demonstrates a hardening of attitudes in the west towards China. Something the Chinese are not used to. Countries pushing back against its aggression.

Brace yourself. More will be coming.

[Partenavia]

Clearly not written by the Thai Government, this is the way the Chinese operate.

[dinsdale]

41 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Thats a permaban offence !!!

Mods will be along any second with the ban stick.

Only joking mate. Dont worry about it.

The YT vid actually about sinking a US ship. They've been upgraded a lot since then and Thailand's junk that they have bought from China the aggressor in this current story wouldn't stand a chance.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/collins-sub-shines-in-us-war-game-20021013-gduomk.html

This story is quite good.

China has to pull it's head in. I hope it doesn't come to war but they (the CCP/China) wouldn't stand a chance. Russia is an interesting question in this scenario.

Edited September 21, 2021 by dinsdale

[Rookiescot]

23 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Usual nonsense from the white English speaking aggressors. Agression, agression agression and then blame the defendant for wanting to defend itself. Let China have her own system, even if you don't like it.

How would you feel (if you were Thai) if China ringed Thailand with hundreds of military bases and told Thailand to change its system and economy to a communist one? 

Ah so you call western nations white English speaking aggressors?

Bit racist that aint it?

China can have its own system. It just needs to cut out the aggressive policies it has towards everyone else. 

[dinsdale]

5 minutes ago, NeoDinosaw said:

The Thai subs were not bought for military purposes ............

Yep. Must protect the fishing fleet. Wait. Maybe must show off. Yeh! I'll go with the latter.

[dinsdale]

28 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Usual nonsense from the white English speaking aggressors. Agression, agression agression and then blame the defendant for wanting to defend itself. Let China have her own system, even if you don't like it.

How would you feel (if you were Thai) if China ringed Thailand with hundreds of military bases and told Thailand to change its system and economy to a communist one? 

That's exactly what they want to do. Maybe not Thailand yet but have you been in a coma?

[Denim]

56 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

All 6 countries laid claims on the maritime issue. It is still on-going negotiation between the concerned countries. Been hyped and used as political fodder by US up as though it will lead to a big China invasion. Islands were reclaimed rocks in China territory. Himalayas was a border skirmishes between India and China that lasted few days. 

So ,  just to be clear , you support China in its claim of all the South China Sea. You agree with its stance on Taiwan , you agree with the crackdown on the protesters in Hong Kong and you think that the protests at Tianamen square are just history and that the Chinese people strongly support everything the CCP is doing ?

[Tanomazu]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So why is China having such a hissy fit about it if it does not matter?

No it demonstrates a hardening of attitudes in the west towards China. Something the Chinese are not used to. Countries pushing back against its aggression.

Brace yourself. More will be coming.

Because they're using the scaling back of Five Eyes to Three Eyes as a political propaganda weapon, obviously. They will portray America, UK and Australia as the agressor, it suits them very well. They will  not relish the prospect of Australia becoming a nuclear base, clearly. But all of that was already in place, or on the cards before. AUKUS does not change a thing really.

 

If you seriously think that the US, UK or Australia will push back against Chinese aggression for real, say if the Chinese would invade Taiwan, I think you're living in La La land. Clearly, we have seen with Afghanistan that the Americans will run and betray their allies even when it has real security concerns at stake, America is imploding really, domestically and militarily.

 

If a real aggression by China against Taiwan would happen the US, UK and Australia would do precisely nothing. Because they know any politician that risks American, UK, OZ soldier's lives for say Taiwan, or even more ridiculous, the South China Sea, would soon be voted out. Their voters do not want war.

 

And AUKUS is not about war, or resisting  Chinese aggression, AUKUS is about the economic interests of the US defense industry, which is playing up the Chinese threat to get more orders for drones etc. You can all rest assured, the US will do a runner again, before they let US soldiers die for Taiwan.