Thailand's 'draconian' alcohol laws in the spotlight

[hotchilli]

23 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Thailand used to be normal

Thailand put the normal into "abnormal".

[or is it the other way around]?

[Tropposurfer]

23 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

First time I ever heard a new term for me was an American guy and we were about to drive into town.

He asked if I wanted a "Road Coke". (Bottle of booze for the trip).

In Oz we call that a "Traveller" 

What a great idea drink alcohol while you're driving! Homer Simpson would be drooling at this point. Not a new phenomena by any means but no less diminished in its stupidity.

[Orinoco]

Should be able to buy alcohol 24/7

Just show ID or passport to buy it.

How hard is that.

Thailand -4.0

[brianthainess]

On 9/29/2021 at 7:05 AM, zzaa09 said:

They do miss the bigger picture.......or even the basic picture.

They have a the big picture problem is its out of focus, all blurred, and unidentifiable as to what it really is.

[brianthainess]

On 9/29/2021 at 7:15 AM, NE1 said:

Wasn't the 2 - 5 ban brought in so children leaving school could not see people purchasing or drinking alcohol , as they thought it would be a bad influence on them.

And yet still enforced Sat and Sun.

[robblok]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

You cannot stop youngsters buying alcohol, no more than the PMs word last months that there will be no floods.

 

Even if you ban alcohol completely, (and there will be some serious screaming from the Thai brewers, distillers and importers if they even try to do that), because people will make illegal rotgut stills and children will STILL be able to get hold of it. 

 

Have you read about "Prohibition in the USA about 100 years ago when the government passed a complete ban on alcohol?

 

https://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties/prohibition

 

This s what can happen if you shut down alcohol shops. Try reading the article.

 

https://theaseanpost.com/article/danger-bootleg-booze

 

In 2015, Indonesia decided to ban the sale of alcohol at convenience stores and mini-marts, which then created a larger black market for alcohol. According to the Center for Indonesian Policy Studies, “with alcohol being expensive and difficult to obtain, Indonesians drink five times more unrecorded than legally purchased and distributed liquor.” 

 

In Malaysia, concerns over the sale of fake alcohol has risen amid a spate of methanol poisoning cases, which claimed 33 lives in September 2018 alone. 

Methanol poisoning

In 2018, Indonesia experienced one of the worst cases of methanol poisoning leaving more than 100 people dead and over 160 in hospitals in a span of just one month. The victims were reported to have drunk fake alcohol containing fatal amounts of methanol. 

 

Methanol is highly dangerous as it is colourless and odourless which makes it difficult for amateurs to distinguish the mixture from an original brew. Even a small amount of methanol can be toxic and symptoms of poisoning do not appear immediately – taking 12 to 24 hours for the effects to show. Methanol poisoning can cause confusion, dizziness, drowsiness, headaches and the inability to coordinate muscle movements.

 

Bild,

 

You are truly something comparing a total prohibition with forbidding minors to drink. Its just not the same in most countries in the world they have laws to combat drinking of young people. Some of those include closing of shops (retracting alcohol license) is one of them. 

 

I know that you can't stop the sale of drugs alcohol included but to say you can't stop young people from drinking is stupid. You cannot stop it 100% but that is normal no country in the world will be able to do that. (maybe Afghanistan but that is not a good example). But you can put measures in place to curb it.

 

Your so worried about shops closing, but there will always be other shops that do follow the rules. That is what happens if fines and closures are brought in. It works in the west and as explained going after shops works better then going after kids. 

 

It fun that you take things totally out of context. But then again you have a losing argument so that is not so strange in that case. Comparing the effects of total alcohol ban with not selling to youths. I havent seen this problem anywhere in the world. The countries your talking about are countries that have complete bans. Can't compare.

 

Maybe its time to come with some good arguments. But i guess you don't want to stop kids from drinking. That is a valid point if you think that is not a problem. However acting like it will bring on scenes of the prohibition is a bit extreme same as imagining kids starting their own distillery for fake alcohol. It is still far easier to have adults buy legal alcohol and sell it to them. You can never stop them 100% just curb it.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:58 AM, ikke1959 said:

It is all about education. The alcohol laws should be reviewed. What is the use of an alcohol sell ban from 2-5?? If you want to buy alcohol and if you are over 21 no problem by doubt show id..Make bar owners bartenders responsible for serving too much alcohol and let the RTP work too in the evning and at night and check and do an alcohol test for everyone....Make Thailand an normal country

How can a Banana Republic governed by unelected poorly educated soldiers mostly from a Military Academy possibly ever be a normal country?

 

[NoshowJones]

On 9/29/2021 at 7:25 AM, NE1 said:

Well why was it put in place ?

Don't powertrips spring to mind?

[HaoleBoy]

22 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is an excellent point....  

 

.... But its also a different issue and has more to do with Thailand ‘wealthy and connected’ protecting Thailands wealthy and connected. Ultimately, legislation such as this (banning of the craft beer industry) is nothing more than ‘corruption’ in protecting the ‘good old boys’. 

 

 

Just imagine how great it would be to enjoy well priced locally produced craft beer....  just as the food industry in Thailand is amazing, the beer industry could be too....  its such a shame those in positions of decision making power only have self interest at heart.

 

 

 

 

 

If you listened to the video interview this precise topic was mentioned there.  It is NOT a different issue.

[Sydebolle]

Well, nobody really cares; I've seen beers and Saengsom etc. being served in each and every restaurant I pass. 
The establishments owned by non-Thais, of course, have to follow the law and are being held at gunpoint with "fines" of anything between THB 20K - 50K if caught. Hence non-Thais follow the law, unlike the country's own people. Question is a) why and b) who cares! 

[itsari]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:58 AM, DrJack54 said:

First time I ever heard a new term for me was an American guy and we were about to drive into town.

He asked if I wanted a "Road Coke". (Bottle of booze for the trip).

In Oz we call that a "Traveller" 

And the traveller container gets tossed to the side of the road 

[Nickelbeer]

21 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

And Glue!

Tramadol???? This pain reliever has no euphoric effects.  Who the hell would use Tramadol to get "high".  Can't be done.

[pedro01]

On 9/29/2021 at 7:41 AM, DoctorB said:

 

 

Are you sure about that? I recall a whole associated hoo-haa about alcohol not being sold at all within 100 meters of schools etc., which groaned on for several months before being quietly forgotten. Probably it was more about stopping teenagers buying alcohol for themselves.

It was Purachai - the interior minister at the time - who was pretty puritanical. 

 

The school thing I thought was a law already on the books that he got enforced - but at that time - bars could open 24/7 - I remember 1 Wednesday morning walking out of a bar at 8am as 2 guys I know were walking in - and dragged me back.

[pedro01]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:08 AM, robblok said:

Not pointless it was more effective then the law that did not allow them to buy because of their age.

 

I think a lot of people don't understand the rationale behind it. Now the big shops can't sell alcohol to kids at those times. Only ones who can are small mom and pop shops. So it works. Before kids could buy in the big shops as nobody checked.

 

It was too hard to enforce them to check ID and not let kids buy, this is easier to enforce so it works better.

 

The question is is this a valid reason. Does anyone know a cost effective way of checking it an other way.

 

These time bans of alcohol are easily retrospectively checked because tills have a time and date. So a few people can enforce a ban instead of huge amounts of cops. Also shops know they cant get away with it as these things are registered for a long time.

 

So it certainly worked, question is is it justified. 

The times were restricted to curb alcoholism.

 

My understanding was 100 meters was the rule for schools but Prayuth made it 300 meters for educational establishments with older kids, who were having too much fun with too little protection.

 

The fact that your average horny teen male would crawl a mile on broken glass for a sip from the hairy cup seems to have passed them by.

Edited September 30, 2021 by pedro01

[pedro01]

One other thing to consider.

 

None of this is aimed at bars with hookers.

 

If you talk to a local about going to a bar, there is close to zero percent, they will assume it is the type that has prostitutes there.

 

In fact, if the word bar means "place that sells booze and leases horizontal entertainers" to you, you are part of a pretty tiny minority. None of this is about you.

[jcmj]

On 9/28/2021 at 8:56 PM, pattjock said:

Are you saying there are no pointless laws in Thailand??

 

The law restricting time for alcohol sales were actually brought in to stop children for buying alcohol. And yes it is pointless.

However my son got busted with cigarettes in school he bought in a store outside the school parking area when he was 12???

[ChipButty]

2 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

Tramadol???? This pain reliever has no euphoric effects.  Who the hell would use Tramadol to get "high".  Can't be done.

Did the ban Sudafed ?

[Scouse123]

2 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

Tramadol???? This pain reliever has no euphoric effects.  Who the hell would use Tramadol to get "high".  Can't be done.

Why quote me?

 

I didn't say Tramadol,  I said "glue "

[joecoolfrog]

3 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

Tramadol???? This pain reliever has no euphoric effects.  Who the hell would use Tramadol to get "high".  Can't be done.

Lol , what a bizarre statement , did you get your medical training at a circus by any chance ?

Tramadol is a opiate , opiates create euphoria , tolerance levels of course will differ .

[Nickelbeer]

4 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Lol , what a bizarre statement , did you get your medical training at a circus by any chance ?

Tramadol is a opiate , opiates create euphoria , tolerance levels of course will differ .

No, perhaps my USA physician got HIS training at a circus. He was the source of my information. I have been taking TRAMADOL sporadically for years and have never noticed any side effect except pain relief. I am quite comfortable with the expertise of my doctor and my own experience. The doctor DID warn me that drugs such as oxycodone were considered to be addictive, primarily because of their euphoric effect, and refused to prescribe them for that reason. The misinformation concerning Tramadol is widespread, but my Doc said it was safe if taken as directed.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Nickelbeer
grammar

[joecoolfrog]

14 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

No, perhaps my USA physician got HIS training at a circus. He was the source of my information. I have been taking TRAMADOL sporadically for years and have never noticed any side effect except pain relief. I am quite comfortable with the expertise of my doctor and my own experience. The doctor DID warn me that drugs such as oxycodone were considered to be addictive, primarily because of their euphoric effect, and refused to prescribe them for that reason. The misinformation concerning Tramadol is widespread, but my Doc said it was safe if taken as directed.

So your doctor is saying that Tramadol is not an opiate , cannot cause euphoria and has no potential for addiction.

Frankly I dont believe that any medical man would spout such nonsense but if he did , then certainly he is a clown.

Tramadol is perfectly safe if taken as directed , most drugs are , its overdoses that have the potential to cause problems .

Take 2-3 times the prescribed dose and you will get high almost certainly , do that frequently and the addiction issue comes into play.

[diddygq]

On 9/29/2021 at 5:48 AM, mrfill said:

Does the USA not count as part of the rest of the world now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States

5555 USA and some Muslim countries the only ones in the world it is 21. Some Americans literally think they are the world and have no clue what is going on other places. 

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, diddygq said:

5555 USA and some Muslim countries the only ones in the world it is 21. Some Americans literally think they are the world and have no clue what is going on other places. 

Can't call Thai alcohol laws draconian if in the USA you can join the military at 17 and can't buy booze untill 21.

Now that's seriously crazy.

[richard_smith237]

27 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Can't call Thai alcohol laws draconian if in the USA you can join the military at 17 and can't buy booze untill 21.

Now that's seriously crazy.

That the US makes purchasing booze illegal until the age of 21 does not make Thailand alcohol lows (timing, blanket bans, advertising etc) any less draconian.

 

To handle your comment: One is a career choice, which seems like a crazy career choice for many, but one many happily make, many people make career choices at a young age. 

 

On topic with the Alcohol Law: In the US a person cannot buy booze until 21 years old - While I think 18 is ok (in the UK), 21 isn’t so bad.

In comparison to Thailands laws, in the US state of Indiana it is illegal to buy booze (Spirits and beer & Wine) on a Sunday, in 12 other states it is illegal to buy spirits on a Sunday - This rule is equally stupid and somewhat puritanical.

 

 

I agree with you DrJack that while we are criticising Thailands draconian Alcohol laws we have to recognise that other countries also have strict and / stupid laws.

 

Many of these laws have existed for decades when society was different, perhaps more religious. In many countries the laws are a legacy of a more conservative governance - many laws are stupid in todays world, it would make sense to abolish them on the grounds of common sense. 

 

My criticism of these laws in Thailand is that they are new laws and often put in place as knee-jerk reaction and contradict common sense and most definitely contradict the logical world as many of us view it. 

 

i.e. Whats the point in Banning everyone from buying booze from Tesco’s or Villa from 2-5pm when if a kid wants booze he gets it from the ‘mum & pop’ shop down the road? - meanwhile very little is done to tackle drink driving or no helmet wearing etc..

 

What kind of idiocy can lead to charges against the computer crimes act if we post a photo of us with a Chang in our hands on Facebook or instagram? 

 

 

Alcohol is easily targeted, its a lazy target, its a nothing target which cannot be officially questioned because the laws are pushed from a puritanical point of view which kneecaps common sense and open thought and often approaches problems from completely the wrong angle.