Electric vehicles of all kinds

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8 hours ago, seedy said:

I stumbled across this report from Volvo which shows an Electric Vehicle creates a 70% larger carbon footprint for manufacturing and disposal compared to a petrol car.

https://group.volvocars.com/news/sustainability/2020/~/media/ccs/Volvo_carbonfootprintreport.pdf

And then there's this:

YSE Study Finds Electric Vehicles Provide Lower Carbon Emissions Through Additional Channels

With new major spending packages investing billions of dollars in electric vehicles in the U.S., some analysts have raised concerns over how green the electric vehicle industry actually is, focusing particularly on indirect emissions caused within the supply chains of the vehicle components and the fuels used to power electricity that charges the vehicles.

But a recent study from the Yale School of the Environment published in Nature Communications found that the total indirect emissions from electric vehicles pale in comparison to the indirect emissions from fossil fuel-powered vehicles. This is in addition to the direct emissions from combusting fossil fuels — either at the tailpipe for conventional vehicles or at the power plant smokestack for electricity generation — show

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27247-y

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, seedy said:

I stumbled across this report from Volvo which shows an Electric Vehicle creates a 70% larger carbon footprint for manufacturing and disposal compared to a petrol car.

https://group.volvocars.com/news/sustainability/2020/~/media/ccs/Volvo_carbonfootprintreport.pdf

All cars have 3 stages of life. Production, use and dudpisal. Germany, fir instance requires all cars to be over 80% recyclable.

All this is taken into account when producing vehicles and the sum total is the qay it's  done.

You are just cherry-picking to back ip your own preconceived ideas.... a one quote wonder which ignores the whole argument and assumes others don't already know what you are misinterpreting.

[seedy]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

You are just cherry-picking to back ip your own preconceived ideas.... a one quote wonder which ignores the whole argument and assumes others don't already know what you are misinterpreting.

555

Seems I am not the only one !

[Bandersnatch]

10 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

I heard the hiso ladies in Bangkok are going crazy over that little tin can car.

 

I also heard it cost about 1/2 mill baht i China which sounds about right, 1 mill is highway robbery. 

1/2 mill baht buys you a 1.2 Suzuki swift.

 

You clearly haven't see the Good Cat in person as you think that this is a valid comparison. The Good Cat is a much bigger car with far better performance  (0-50 km/h  takes 3.8 seconds) Far better spec'd (see the pics I posted above)

 

It will also will be far cheaper to run: the 47.8 kWh battery gives a 401 km of range and using the overnight TOU rate will cost 126 baht for 401km

 

Suzuki swift 20.0km/L @ 31.58/L would cost 633 Baht for 401km

 

 

[Yellowtail]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

With new major spending packages investing billions of dollars in electric vehicles in the U.S.,

Aren't all these subsidies supposed to be going to the big oil? 

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2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Aren't all these subsidies supposed to be going to the big oil? 

No, they're not and who said they were all supposed to be going to big oil. Don't you have anything better to offer than this class of tripe? And worldwide, the fossil fuel industries is subsided to the tune of about 6% of global GDP.

 

As for subsidies for EV's and related projects, there may be subsidies but they don't indemnify these projects against financial failure. And Tesla, for example, is now so successful that it is no longer eligible for those subsidies.

[Yellowtail]

45 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No, they're not and who said they were all supposed to be going to big oil. Don't you have anything better to offer than this class of tripe? And worldwide, the fossil fuel industries is subsided to the tune of about 6% of global GDP.

 

As for subsidies for EV's and related projects, there may be subsidies but they don't indemnify these projects against financial failure. And Tesla, for example, is now so successful that it is no longer eligible for those subsidies.

Yeah, have you ever looked at what are called subsidies to make up the 6%? It's most all tax deductions related to cost of production and government contracts. These are the same "subsidies" everyone enjoys, including Tesla, Amazon, Apple, GM etc. 

 

Are you going to pretend that Tesla will not benefit from the "...new major spending packages investing billions of dollars in electric vehicles in the U.S.,..."? 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Yellowtail

[Yellowtail]

It's hilarious that the IMF calls governments buying fossil fuels to generate electricity subsidizing the fossil fuel industry. 

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34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, have you ever looked at what are called subsidies to make up the 6%? It's most all tax deductions related to cost of production and government contracts. These are the same "subsidies" everyone enjoys, including Tesla, Amazon, Apple, GM etc. 

Really? You got some evidence  that it's "mast all tax deductions related to cost of production and government contracts? 

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It's hilarious that the IMF calls governments buying fossil fuels to generate electricity subsidizing the fossil fuel industry. 

It would be hilarious if that were true. You got a source for that? What it does call subsidies partially compensating industries and citizens for their fossil fuel consumption.

[placeholder]

44 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Are you going to pretend that Tesla will not benefit from the "...new major spending packages investing billions of dollars in electric vehicles in the U.S.,..."? 

I don't know. I haven't read anything about the bill. Are you going to pretend that you have?

[seedy]

John Cadogan calls Elon Musk 'Electric Jesus' for a reason.

Just read all the posts by the 'Faithful', who in another life and time were high ranking members of the Inquisition.

The same zealous belief, even when offered proof of their being wrong.

I don't reply to most - if ever - now, as there is no point. The take EV's as gospel and will never change. Burn the Witch now means Burn the ICE (which is funny because they both burn fuel !!! 555

https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/watch-angry-tesla-owner-blows-up-model-s-with-elon-musk-doll-in-front-seat-d05dc09b-86eb-4c23-8389-b75e4648d78f

This guy has the right idea !!!

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, seedy said:

John Cadogan calls Elon Musk 'Electric Jesus' for a reason.

Just read all the posts by the 'Faithful', who in another life and time were high ranking members of the Inquisition.

The same zealous belief, even when offered proof of their being wrong.

I don't reply to most - if ever - now, as there is no point. The take EV's as gospel and will never change. Burn the Witch now means Burn the ICE (which is funny because they both burn fuel !!! 555

https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/watch-angry-tesla-owner-blows-up-model-s-with-elon-musk-doll-in-front-seat-d05dc09b-86eb-4c23-8389-b75e4648d78f

This guy has the right idea !!!

I think there's a wee bit more to that story than meets the eye.  Current warranty, 8 yrs / 100k miles (model 3).

 

MG's, warranty is 8 yr / 180k kms, (100k least)and really wouldn't consider any vehicle with less warranty.  Most other popular brands are about the same.

 

Interesting read, for out of warranty Tesla, fixed $5000 vs 22.5k.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/13/tesla-battery-pack-replacement-repair/

Edited December 29, 2021 by KhunLA

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, seedy said:

555

Seems I am not the only one !

Please explain.

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, have you ever looked at what are called subsidies to make up the 6%? It's most all tax deductions related to cost of production and government contracts. These are the same "subsidies" everyone enjoys, including Tesla, Amazon, Apple, GM etc. 

 

Are you going to pretend that Tesla will not benefit from the "...new major spending packages investing billions of dollars in electric vehicles in the U.S.,..."? 

I think you need to look at GM"s collapse and the government ßubsidies that kept them in bisiness

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

I don't know. I haven't read anything about the bill. Are you going to pretend that you have?

I do not need to pretend. Spending billions on infrastructure to support electric vehicles will help everyone, yes? 

 

I assume everyone incudes Tesla, are you going to pretend it doesn't? 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Really? You got some evidence  that it's "mast all tax deductions related to cost of production and government contracts? 

Yes, all you have to do is read any of the breakdown provided by the articles making the 8% claim.

 

You have not actually seen the breakdown? I thought not. 

[LarrySR]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

It's hilarious that the IMF calls governments buying fossil fuels to generate electricity subsidizing the fossil fuel industry. 

It's hilarious to see the people that have been duped into parroting fossil fuel propaganda.

[Yellowtail]

46 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

It's hilarious to see the people that have been duped into parroting fossil fuel propaganda.

Still waiting for a link to one of those "daily press releases" from the fossil fuel industry you lied about...

[Longwood50]

On 10/1/2021 at 10:05 AM, Kanada said:

There’s no stopping them now!

This could slow down the appetite for electric cars.  $22,000 USD to replace a Tesla battery. 

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-blows-up-repair-bill-b1983369.html


 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Longwood50

[seedy]

 

[LarrySR]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Still waiting for a link to one of those "daily press releases" from the fossil fuel industry you lied about...

You have the attention span of a fruit fly so that makes me a liar?

Edited December 29, 2021 by LarrySR

[Klonko]

I have left the amusing discussions fuel vs. electric behind. For me it is only the question when we will buy an electric car in Thailand. I have a Tesla Model 3 in Europe and long distance riding is no problem except in the more Eastern parts of Europe.  I will never go back to my previous  combustion engine cars from so called premium manufacturers.

 

Decisive for me is easily accessible fast charging on long distance routes, in our case around Prachin Buri/Korat for our rides between Sattahip and Chaiyaphum, and along "7" at Suvarnabhumi.

 

I have looked at  the GWM Good Cat with up to  500 km NEDC range, large enough for our 2 person household without serious DIY/guardening activities. Better range than the larger MG EP Plus which is not suited for our driveway with its 11.5 cm ground clearance. GWM claims to work on a charging network. If this pet has a more comfortable ride than our Honda City and is keeping its promises, it could be our new car in 2023, when I expect the charging infrastructure to accommodate our needs.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Klonko

[KhunLA]

6 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

This could slow down the appetite for electric cars.  $22,000 USD to replace a Tesla battery. 

Actually it's more like 12k - 16k to replace the whole pack.  Much less if just replacing the bad cells.

Google is your friend.

[LarrySR]

Tesla’s Battery and Drive Unit Warranty covers the battery pack and drivetrain components of all of Tesla’s vehicles for 8 years and varying mileage depending on the model.
The Model X and Model S are covered up to 150,000 miles. 
Model 3 and Model Y, performance models 120,000 miles. Standard Range Model 3 is covered up to 100,000 miles.
 

Edited December 29, 2021 by LarrySR

[kwilco]

Don't know why people think that Tesla is the be-all and end-all of ekectric cats. Chinese manufacturers and Saic, BKV, plus Volkswagon, Hyundai and Nissan Renault will overtake them in volume next year or so and they are aiming much more for the mass market

Within 8 years half the private vehicle market is estimated to be 100% ekectric cars.

People who think there is some reason they won't catch on are at least 10 years out of date. Ideas about cost of batteries are just fantasy as there are already replacement deals that avoid full cost.

Edited December 30, 2021 by kwilco

[Bandersnatch]

As this a Thailand Motor Discussion of EVs it would be nice if we could focus on the situation in Thailand. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Bandersnatch

[seedy]

39 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

As this a Thailand Motor Discussion of EVs it would be nice if we could focus on the situation in Thailand.

Topic title - "Electric vehicles of all kinds"

See no mention of geography. Know of no EV made in LOS.

[Bandersnatch]

The reality is that at ฿3,000,000 not many on this forum are likely to be buying a Tesla.

 

I think it might be more productive to discuss EVs that expats living in Thailand are more likely to buy. 

[KhunLA]

As I stated elsewhere, I'd buy the Wuling Hong Guang MINI EV, if priced under ฿200k registered.  A bit more than the price in China.

 

But here, it sells for ฿369k unregistered, 2X the China price.  More than a few baht more, than a Suzuki Celerio.  The Wuling would be great for around town, and very short outings locally.  About the same I use my e-scooter for.  Advantage of car of course, rainy season and back seat / trunk area, though useless as a seat, unless having small children.

 

The Fomm is overpriced for the specs, and I have a hard time justifying ฿1m for 4 wheel transport.  Don't fit comfortably through the door of the MG EP, so would have to be the ZS or Haval H6 @ ฿1.2m, about the same cost as my house, so that ain't happening either.

Edited December 30, 2021 by KhunLA